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vdizenzo
04-20-2012, 08:33 AM
I know backloading is becoming more popular. This thread is not to argue if it's an original idea or for those who don't believe in it. This will be a thread where people who backload can share ideas. It's also a place where people who are interested can learn about the practice.

I have a great tip that I happened upon for backloading. A principle of backloading is to consume less than 30 grams of carbs during the day. Well, those are net carbs. That means you can subtract the fiber from the overall carb number. Mission makes a great soft tortilla that is only 8 net grams of carbs. Made a few cheesesteaks on them last night and they were excellent. I have also made luncheon meat wraps. They definitely open up more meal options. Also, I am sure there are other soft tortilla's out there that are low net carbs, but those are the ones I found at my grocery store.

joey54
04-21-2012, 01:32 PM
Very good thread idea Vincent. Hope this one becomes popular.

huskybear
04-23-2012, 07:50 PM
Hey Vincent,

How did you decide to try the carb backloading?

What nutritional approach pushed you in this direction if any?

I ask as, having finally experienced a serious diet and proper eating, I see that I need carbs for my progress, but I need to control them to get my results. So I'm not sure whether to control my carb intake in a more traditional method or whether this is an approach that would be worthwhile.

Thoughts?

vdizenzo
04-25-2012, 11:04 AM
Hey Vincent,

How did you decide to try the carb backloading?

What nutritional approach pushed you in this direction if any?

I ask as, having finally experienced a serious diet and proper eating, I see that I need carbs for my progress, but I need to control them to get my results. So I'm not sure whether to control my carb intake in a more traditional method or whether this is an approach that would be worthwhile.

Thoughts?

I did carb cycling with Shelby. It worked very well, but it was very difficult. It needed to be. I started with him at around 24% bf. Unfortunately when I was done I rebounded a bit. I could not lead that discipline of an eating lifestyle. I held it together as much as possible, but I was definitely sliding. I saw some guys using and talking about backloading. It just made sense with me. I know I can be disciplined all day, but in the evening I'd love to loosen things up a bit. I did it on my own for a bit with some fair results. Then I worked with Kiefer and made some nice gains. Between Kiefer and his book I have learned a lot. This is truly and eating lifestyle for me now.

RhodeHouse
04-25-2012, 12:51 PM
Hey Vincent,

How did you decide to try the carb backloading?

What nutritional approach pushed you in this direction if any?

I ask as, having finally experienced a serious diet and proper eating, I see that I need carbs for my progress, but I need to control them to get my results. So I'm not sure whether to control my carb intake in a more traditional method or whether this is an approach that would be worthwhile.

Thoughts?

I've seen Vincent make great progress with this. It's still a very disciplined approach. if I remember you from another thread, you might want to just try some basic dieting ideas before you dive into this. I'm not saying you can't or shouldnt do it,b ut I think you can make some solid progress towards your goals before going this route.

If I do remember, you haven't quite grasped the training ideas in 5/3/1. Why add another concept in before you've mastered one? Just my take. Have at it.

huskybear
04-25-2012, 09:59 PM
I've seen Vincent make great progress with this. It's still a very disciplined approach. if I remember you from another thread, you might want to just try some basic dieting ideas before you dive into this. I'm not saying you can't or shouldnt do it,b ut I think you can make some solid progress towards your goals before going this route.

If I do remember, you haven't quite grasped the training ideas in 5/3/1. Why add another concept in before you've mastered one? Just my take. Have at it.

Sweet blunt honesty... you are completely correct in that assessment and logic Matt.

Vincent, thanks for the reply... makes complete sense and I feel similarly in the discipline so I will consider it...

But not now I'm thinking. While I was disciplined for the past 3 months and figured things out diet wise, I suspect that Matt's advice is bang on... I'll stay basic and make some small changes to the program that was working meal wise and see how that works towards getting to my goals over a longer period of time. Then I can work in a new concept.

This is why its great to be back on here. Thanks guys. Much appreciated!

DontTakeEmOff31
05-04-2012, 09:56 AM
I listened to a couple of your Just Big shows where you talked about back loading (one was an interview with Kiefer). I thought back loading was interesting and did have a couple questions.

How much of your actual calorie input came from before / after lifting? Right now I'm doing a bulk (4500 - 5000 calories) but most of those come from before I lift since I can't get to the gym until around 6 or 7, and by the time I am done its late and I have almost no appetite after lifting. I'm debating switching to back loading after I'm at a weight I want to maintain, not sure if I could eat enough after lifting to make the back loading worth while though.

Also, when you switched to back loading were you trying to loose weight or was it more to maintain / recomp? I've always had a hard time maintaining a weight, and if this diet allowed you to maintain or recomp slightly at a current weight I'd seriously consider using it once I'm done bulking.

vdizenzo
05-09-2012, 08:10 PM
I eat at least half my calories post workout. I love to eat, so this is not an issue I have regardless of time. Believe me, on no carbs all day you will have plenty of an appetite after training.

I decided to backload to recomp and maintain. It's been really easy to maintain on this program and I have gotten stronger.

LuNa
05-10-2012, 06:05 AM
I listened to a couple of your Just Big shows where you talked about back loading (one was an interview with Kiefer). I thought back loading was interesting and did have a couple questions.

How much of your actual calorie input came from before / after lifting? Right now I'm doing a bulk (4500 - 5000 calories) but most of those come from before I lift since I can't get to the gym until around 6 or 7, and by the time I am done its late and I have almost no appetite after lifting. I'm debating switching to back loading after I'm at a weight I want to maintain, not sure if I could eat enough after lifting to make the back loading worth while though.

Also, when you switched to back loading were you trying to loose weight or was it more to maintain / recomp? I've always had a hard time maintaining a weight, and if this diet allowed you to maintain or recomp slightly at a current weight I'd seriously consider using it once I'm done bulking.

Its important to note that Kiefer recommends to not count your calories. You eat when you are hungry until you are no longer hungry, and you dont eat if you arent hungry. Also, because the pre-training part has you eating P+F, which are very filling, it is likely that you will be eating less calories. For example, i only have one meal before i train (i train at 7) and i find myself not being hungry at all.

Regarding the backloading part, Kiefer provides several adjustments if your training time is different than the recommended time. Whilst not being the most optimal, it will still give great results. Also, i can get 400-500 grams of carbs in post workout and i only have around 1.5-2 hours after my training.

I can really recommend the book. It is one of the best i have read so far.

vdizenzo
05-10-2012, 08:54 AM
Something I have also notice for me the past few weekends, I need to stay away from backloading carbs such as ice cream and cookies as snack foods after my post workout meals. I put on weight too easily from them. The additional fat in those items vs rice cakes, pudding, bread, and pretzels carry additional calories. I also felt like I got a little softer in the process. I can do a little bit one night, but not on all four of my backloading nights.

LuNa
05-16-2012, 01:29 AM
Something I have also notice for me the past few weekends, I need to stay away from backloading carbs such as ice cream and cookies as snack foods after my post workout meals. I put on weight too easily from them. The additional fat in those items vs rice cakes, pudding, bread, and pretzels carry additional calories. I also felt like I got a little softer in the process. I can do a little bit one night, but not on all four of my backloading nights.

I have experienced the same thing. When using higher fat carb sources like the ones you mentioned i tend to get bloated and it takes longer to get rid of it. I now mostly use white rice and kid's cereal as backloading food and try to keep fat intake down.

su9062
05-18-2012, 09:08 AM
I know backloading is becoming more popular. This thread is not to argue if it's an original idea or for those who don't believe in it. This will be a thread where people who backload can share ideas. It's also a place where people who are interested can learn about the practice.

I have a great tip that I happened upon for backloading. A principle of backloading is to consume less than 30 grams of carbs during the day. Well, those are net carbs. That means you can subtract the fiber from the overall carb number. Mission makes a great soft tortilla that is only 8 net grams of carbs. Made a few cheesesteaks on them last night and they were excellent. I have also made luncheon meat wraps. They definitely open up more meal options. Also, I am sure there are other soft tortilla's out there that are low net carbs, but those are the ones I found at my grocery store.

Nice thread.
I am back loading carbs for about a month and half now with HCT12. Initially it was pretty hard to mentally to eat no carbs through the day. This was because I was coming off Kris Gethin's 12 week hardcore trainer ( along with the diet ). But as i kinda eased in to this, it started getting easier and better. A few food recommendations eating out through the day.

# Salad at chipotle with cheese, meats and salsa. Less than 10 grams of carbs. This is probably the best choice for lunch for me.
# Subway salads with grilled chicken.
# Carl's Jr or Hardees, they will replace bun with wrapping lettuce on all the sandwiches.

The problem i am currently having is in managing the rest days. How do you handle the rest days in terms of diet and cardio.

vdizenzo
05-18-2012, 10:43 AM
I keep two of my rest/cardio days low carb. I try to stay within 30 net grams of carbs. My other day I backload in the evening because I bench heavy the next day.

Jonathan E
05-18-2012, 11:15 AM
This is interesting to me. Is their a book on this I can get? And what is the simple difference between carb cycling and carb backloading?

su9062
05-19-2012, 11:30 AM
This is interesting to me. Is their a book on this I can get? And what is the simple difference between carb cycling and carb backloading?

Cycling carbs is to eat high , medium and low carbs through the week as a cycle. This is great too. Different people implement it in different ways. With cycling carbs the major issue i had was working out the day after the no carb days.

Back loading is eating all of your carbs after working out ( ideally between 3 to 5 pm). There is a book.

su9062
05-19-2012, 11:35 AM
Its important to note that Kiefer recommends to not count your calories. You eat when you are hungry until you are no longer hungry, and you dont eat if you arent hungry. Also, because the pre-training part has you eating P+F, which are very filling, it is likely that you will be eating less calories. For example, i only have one meal before i train (i train at 7) and i find myself not being hungry at all.

Regarding the backloading part, Kiefer provides several adjustments if your training time is different than the recommended time. Whilst not being the most optimal, it will still give great results. Also, i can get 400-500 grams of carbs in post workout and i only have around 1.5-2 hours after my training.

I can really recommend the book. It is one of the best i have read so far.

For those of you who are taking green tea or any hunger suppressing supplements this would be a key thing. I am taking green tea with all the other pre workout things the past week or so. I was taking it before i started back loading. But with backloading it might not be optimal. The reason is that you wouldn't feel like eating as much as you are supposed to.

Jonathan E
05-20-2012, 12:39 AM
Cycling carbs is to eat high , medium and low carbs through the week as a cycle. This is great too. Different people implement it in different ways. With cycling carbs the major issue i had was working out the day after the no carb days.

Back loading is eating all of your carbs after working out ( ideally between 3 to 5 pm). There is a book.

Makes sense. Thanks.

Jonathan E
05-20-2012, 12:41 AM
Since were talking about it:

If your trying to 'maintain' weight and just recomp/get in better cardio shape(while still making gym gains,obviously), would carb backloading or carb cycling be better? Or does it just vary?

su9062
05-20-2012, 01:21 PM
Since were talking about it:

If your trying to 'maintain' weight and just recomp/get in better cardio shape(while still making gym gains,obviously), would carb backloading or carb cycling be better? Or does it just vary?

Maintaining weight would be easier with back loading I would say. Depending on how you implement the cycling it could be easy too. The number of variables in back loading is small. I would suggest back load carbs for a few weeks, if you think you are gaining fat fast, cycle carbs for a few weeks until you find a good rhythm between both.

su9062
05-22-2012, 09:40 AM
I am also dealing with feeling extremely warm / hot right after the back load meal post workout. It is kinda crazy and interferes with your sleep cycle I think.

vdizenzo
05-22-2012, 04:23 PM
I am also dealing with feeling extremely warm / hot right after the back load meal post workout. It is kinda crazy and interferes with your sleep cycle I think.

Oh my God, my carb meal puts me to sleep. How close to your bedtime do you eat your backloading meal?

su9062
05-22-2012, 05:16 PM
Oh my God, my carb meal puts me to sleep. How close to your bedtime do you eat your backloading meal?

I eat at about 7 Pm. One meal only, about 200 grams carbs and around 1500 calories. The increase in body temperature is giving really active brain signals, last night I had a dream, i was kinda like in a movie like the Gladiator! lol

su9062
05-24-2012, 02:47 AM
Since were talking about it:

If your trying to 'maintain' weight and just recomp/get in better cardio shape(while still making gym gains,obviously), would carb backloading or carb cycling be better? Or does it just vary?

Actually I just realized the way most people backloading carbs over the week, it in itself is a cycling approach. Someone eating 30 grams or less carbs 2 or 3 days a week and shooting about 250 - 500 grams the other days is a good cycling pattern.

LuNa
06-12-2012, 01:45 AM
I am also dealing with feeling extremely warm / hot right after the back load meal post workout. It is kinda crazy and interferes with your sleep cycle I think.

This is extremely normal when backloading. You are basically throwing gasoline (high amounts of carbs) on a fire (your metabolism). I tend to get the carb sweats as well.

Like Vincent, the backload meal makes me pretty lethargic/sleepy. I eat my last meal about 20-30 mins before going to bed and sleep like a baby.

BloodandThunder
06-12-2012, 06:49 AM
I feel backloading works well with people such as myself who have an erratic schedule. One problem I had with carb cycling was when I'd schedule a high carb day for my SQ/DL days and work would put my training off that day so I just spent all day shoveling carbs with no workout. With backloading, everyday before workout is basically the same eating pattern so if I have to shift a workout, all is not lost lol.

BloodandThunder
06-12-2012, 06:51 AM
What's everyone's go-to PWO carbs? I know Kiefer suggests non-processed high-glycemic carbs after the PWO shake.

LuNa
06-12-2012, 07:43 AM
What's everyone's go-to PWO carbs? I know Kiefer suggests non-processed high-glycemic carbs after the PWO shake.

Dextrose for the PWO shake
White rice
Kid's cereal
Cereal bars

My backloads are pretty boring. I have found that sticking to typical Skiploading foods, low fat high processed high GI, has given me better results.

su9062
06-12-2012, 09:13 AM
This is extremely normal when backloading. You are basically throwing gasoline (high amounts of carbs) on a fire (your metabolism). I tend to get the carb sweats as well.

Like Vincent, the backload meal makes me pretty lethargic/sleepy. I eat my last meal about 20-30 mins before going to bed and sleep like a baby.

True. All this got messed up when I added green tea and Yohimbe to the pre workout. The green tea was killing appetite at the wrong time. Now I am taking it in the mornings and things are coming back to normal.

su9062
06-12-2012, 09:22 AM
What's everyone's go-to PWO carbs? I know Kiefer suggests non-processed high-glycemic carbs after the PWO shake.

Pancakes
More Pancakes
waffles
Indian food ( big bowl of rice and curry)
Chipotle
Chicken and biscuits


Hitting the calorie goals might be difficult from any one choice of backloading carbs. These days I end up eating Cake or Ice cream for the last 500 calories or so.

LuNa
06-13-2012, 07:18 AM
Pancakes
More Pancakes
waffles
Indian food ( big bowl of rice and curry)
Chipotle
Chicken and biscuits


Hitting the calorie goals might be difficult from any one choice of backloading carbs. These days I end up eating Cake or Ice cream for the last 500 calories or so.

What calorie goal are you talking about? The tables in the book are just guidelines, as far as i know.

kaspersky
07-04-2012, 10:08 PM
I eat at about 6h30 Pm. One meal only, about 300 grams carbs and around 1700 calories. The increase in body temperature is giving really active brain signals, last night I had a dream, i was kinda like in a movie like the Gladiator!

Caino
07-05-2012, 05:50 AM
Question about net carbs, my bran Cereal contains 17.5 fibre and 15 g carbs per serve, what the hell would be the net carbs on this? Btw its uncle tobys Bran Plus

LuNa
07-05-2012, 08:29 AM
Question about net carbs, my bran Cereal contains 17.5 fibre and 15 g carbs per serve, what the hell would be the net carbs on this? Btw its uncle tobys Bran Plus

It could very well be that the carbs listed is already net carbs, so fibre subtracted.

BloodandThunder
07-05-2012, 08:49 AM
How do people handle their backloads if they train at 5-6pm (after typical working day). In the book, he states to backload the night before morning training (i.e. off days are now days in which you don't train the next day), but what about training at night. Follow the same or shift it to post workout.

LuNa
07-13-2012, 06:03 AM
How do people handle their backloads if they train at 5-6pm (after typical working day). In the book, he states to backload the night before morning training (i.e. off days are now days in which you don't train the next day), but what about training at night. Follow the same or shift it to post workout.

It would be your regular backload protocol. Ultra low carbs pre training, then train and start the backload when you come home. The downside of having a later backload is fitting in all your carbs in a short time frame. Kiefer states in the book that you could already have carbs just before training if you train very late, at 8-9 for example.

I get home from work at 6 and am usually in the gym by 7 until about 9. I start my load after that and finish by about 11. Usually i get 500-600 grams of carbs in, which seems to be working fine.

Stumprrp
08-31-2012, 09:50 AM
Going to bump this up.

I used backloading from feb 1st ish to about july i think and lost a fair amount of fat while maintaining size/strength gain. Went from 252 to a low of 225. Ive been playing around with eating breakfast again, skipping breakfast but eating carbs, eating whatever, and i have to say, i will probably go back to backloading. I read WAY to many articles on Lyle Arrogant-donald's site and on Marks daily apple about how its BS and all about calories in calories out. Well, trying that approach my weight has been slowly creaping up and i feel softer.

I agree with what others have said about watching the junk. Initially, i was a huge fan of pizza and donuts. I also lost weight while doing that but my weight loss plateaud quickly. I think the best bet is to have a nice big clean dinner after the PWO shake, and the last meal more of a treat. Maybe a bowl of ice cream with some pound cake or a couple glazed donuts and a glass of skim milk. I also noticed if i slacked off a bit throwing in a week of low carb only really sheds the fat, not just water.

Those paleo forums, while they provide great information, are REALLY set in there ways and brainwash the shit out of people.

vdizenzo
09-01-2012, 10:50 PM
Going to bump this up.

I used backloading from feb 1st ish to about july i think and lost a fair amount of fat while maintaining size/strength gain. Went from 252 to a low of 225. Ive been playing around with eating breakfast again, skipping breakfast but eating carbs, eating whatever, and i have to say, i will probably go back to backloading. I read WAY to many articles on Lyle Arrogant-donald's site and on Marks daily apple about how its BS and all about calories in calories out. Well, trying that approach my weight has been slowly creaping up and i feel softer.

I agree with what others have said about watching the junk. Initially, i was a huge fan of pizza and donuts. I also lost weight while doing that but my weight loss plateaud quickly. I think the best bet is to have a nice big clean dinner after the PWO shake, and the last meal more of a treat. Maybe a bowl of ice cream with some pound cake or a couple glazed donuts and a glass of skim milk. I also noticed if i slacked off a bit throwing in a week of low carb only really sheds the fat, not just water.

Those paleo forums, while they provide great information, are REALLY set in there ways and brainwash the shit out of people.

Great post. Backloading helps me control my weight pretty easily and has really fine tuned my performance. Eating like this has become a total lifestyle that's very easy for me.

DontTakeEmOff31
10-12-2012, 07:33 AM
I've recently switched to backloading, not to loose any weight but more or maintaining my weight and elevating my hunger levels. I've been able to hold my weight pretty steady (204 - 208 at 5'6) so I am enjoying it and I'm really liking feeling hungry again after bulking for so long.

Whats everyones food choices throughout the day? I'm curious and looking for ideas. Right now for me its almonds, salad with lots of chicken, bunch of protein shakes with peanut butter.

vdizenzo
10-14-2012, 10:01 AM
I've recently switched to backloading, not to loose any weight but more or maintaining my weight and elevating my hunger levels. I've been able to hold my weight pretty steady (204 - 208 at 5'6) so I am enjoying it and I'm really liking feeling hungry again after bulking for so long.

Whats everyones food choices throughout the day? I'm curious and looking for ideas. Right now for me its almonds, salad with lots of chicken, bunch of protein shakes with peanut butter.

I have recently moved away from nuts and pb during the day. They have more carbs in them than I realized. I am more using coconut oil, mac nut oil, heavy cream, and no carb salad dressings for my fats. I really like to save my carbs because I used low net carb wraps for my lunches everyday. Two of them only have 12 grams of carbs. I use chicken or beef in them with veggies.

DontTakeEmOff31
10-15-2012, 09:34 AM
I have recently moved away from nuts and pb during the day. They have more carbs in them than I realized. I am more using coconut oil, mac nut oil, heavy cream, and no carb salad dressings for my fats. I really like to save my carbs because I used low net carb wraps for my lunches everyday. Two of them only have 12 grams of carbs. I use chicken or beef in them with veggies.

Are your fats and proteins pre workout split pretty even then?

Astreocclu
10-19-2012, 07:15 AM
Just wondering for guys on here that have tried backloading, have you ever tried eating berardi style. It sounds really similar except for i think berardi suggests eating more carbs through veggies and fruit.

SEOINAGE
11-07-2012, 04:34 PM
Just started reading this book. I'm sure I will have some questions I'll post here. But so far a great book, and it just makes sense. Thinking I will start implementing it fully next spring, as this winter will be full on bulk, although tempted to use this protocol during bulk to avoid fat gain.