View Full Version : Strength vs mass training for a beginner. Serious BS

07-14-2012, 01:16 PM
Alright, basically my brother who isn't interested in weight training just started workout out about 3 weeks ago. His goal is mass.

My eldest brother who thinks he knows it all b/c he's a personal trainer told him to do 10-12 reps with about SEVEN excercises to begin with. His argument is that beginners get strong with any rep range, which I'm not dissagreeing with.

The skinny bro wasn't making size or strength gains for about 2 weeks, only increased once or twice, and did shit every time on the bench press.

Now since Tuesday I've had him run SS with rows(instead of PC) and he's been making solid strength gains all week. He's just finished his third session a while ago and his squat went up by 22lbs, and all the other lifts followed suite.

Now in comes the idiot(old brother) and he starts getting mad that I've had him running 5 reps. He doesn't seem to comprehend that if his squat increased by 22lbs in ONE week that obviously his 10rm will be higher than last week. How retarded is this?

Regardless of goals, isn't it the BEST option to give a new guy solid strength foundations in the BIG rather than squatting baby weight for 2 weeks and curling the bar 12 times? C'mon! He can talk about his qualifications all he wants but I just know I'm right here.

He doesn't seem to believe that the biggest BB's are the strongest, but arn't they? He THINKS that by lifting light weights all day you can get huge. Get the fuck outta here with that BULL! I might just be a newbie myself, but common sense, research and the experiences of myself and others agree with me here.

Just came here cause I was pissed off that this loudmouth asshole thinks he knows it all. He's a dumb fuck srs.

07-14-2012, 01:44 PM
One more important point:

" Starting Strength and all those other well known and reliable beginner and intermediate programs are just a bunch of American Steroid lifter programs"

Coming from a 3x10 fag

07-15-2012, 02:44 PM
while i agree with your way of thinking because it is correct. but SS is a horrible program.. its only purpose IMO is to learn the big 3 then move on from it as fast as you can. I seriously wasted the first 9 months of lifting on SS.. yeah my legs grew. my back got a little bigger..but you shoulders, arms, chest and calves, lats, are all ignored on that program.. I dont care how new you are you need some more of isolation.. SS will give you the strength results, but your brother will be very disappointed with the visual results 6 months down the road

and yes for maximum hypertrophy 8-15 rep range is ideal.

07-15-2012, 07:44 PM
IMO, i believe strength gets the mass. I build my mass with strength, an because your a PT does not mean anything with out the CSCS. I out smart trainers at almost every gym so, if your PT brother would like to have an discussion on why is he wrong let me know.

07-15-2012, 07:50 PM
For the first 8-10 weeks, most beginners aren't adding any mass regardless- they're simply getting better at utilizing their existing muscle (improved coordination, motor unit recruitment, blah de blah).

Strength and power based programs accelerate this process. I always, ALWAYS have new lifters start out with pure strength programs for the first 6-8 weeks, even if their goals are pure size, as maxing out these "newbie gains" is critical before the body will start to add on new skeletal muscle.

07-16-2012, 05:45 AM
The thing that bothers me is that you changed his program after 2 weeks. You expected radical gains after only 2 weeks? Come on?

I disagree with whoever said SS is a bad program. It's fantastic. It hammers the main lifts and if you use your imagination you can make fantastic gains on it for all major body parts. That being said, it's not perfect.

For beginners you need to perfect the main lifts. Get great at:

Military Press
Bent Rows

There's no reason to do any kind of isolation movements. If you train compound movements you will get bigger and stronger. Once these lifts are perfected then you can add in some fluff, but I would still spend 95% of your focus on the main lifts and 5% on the fluff. If you suck at the big stuff, you'll suck at everything.

In my opinion, you need to work all the ranges. Three to five reps will build strength (and size if there's enough volume, a la Block Periodization), so will 8-12 reps. I would do my 1st and maybe 2nd movements in the 3-5 range and then hit the assistance work in the 8-12 range. Cover all bases. If you get stronger and you're eating to get bigger, you'll get bigger.

Pick a program and work it for a year before you even try to change anything. Put in work and let things happen. Training is a long process and if you want gains yesterday, this isn't for you.