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Silverback
08-22-2012, 09:26 AM
G'day!

Like i said in the title, am looking to build a big deadlift...my current max is 363 x 2, my short term goal is 400lbs, long term goal 500lbs.

Have always done more bodybuilding style workouts and never really been that heavy.

So as of 2 weeks ago having been building strength and focusing solely on deadlift (don't really care about anything else, i play some soccer for fun 1x a week and do a few sprint sessions on the track 2x a week, but rest of time is free.

Would like some advice ideas to help me get to my goals, as ive already seen plenty of dudes on here shifting above and beyond my goals. I guess tips, ideas etc...

Right now, i feel my technique is good, i lift barefoot and just use chalk, otherwise its just me and the bar.

My routine is pretty much deadlift, some overhead pressing and abs. 3x a week.


am 6'1 230lbs, 33inch waist and 29yrs old. If any of that matters!

Appreciate any advice and oh i got a journal started too, so i can track where im headed.

thanks

A

http://http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?154626-Picking-up-Chickens...

ScottYard
08-22-2012, 04:26 PM
Hammer the hamstrings with RDLs and GMs. Pull throughs, dimel deads, and glute hams need to be your friend. Speed work and block pulls should be used often.

If you have a SSB or Yoke bar use it for assistance work.

J L S
08-22-2012, 04:47 PM
My routine is pretty much deadlift, some overhead pressing and abs. 3x a week.


this is the only thing that springs out to me. If that means as it reads, you really dont want to be deadlifting 3x a week, once heavy and maybe a second time as some form of partial pull/speed pull or accesory movement.

As for building the deadlift pretty much what scott has said, work your grip also and review your technique often

Bako Lifter
08-22-2012, 06:28 PM
I'm sure you'd have an easier time pulling 400 by not deadlifting. Use box squats, Romanian deadlifts, glute ham raise, etc.

Pull again in two months and see what you get.

Silverback
08-23-2012, 01:39 AM
this is the only thing that springs out to me. If that means as it reads, you really dont want to be deadlifting 3x a week, once heavy and maybe a second time as some form of partial pull/speed pull or accesory movement.

As for building the deadlift pretty much what scott has said, work your grip also and review your technique often


Yes 3x per week,

Basically my routine is deadlift 3 x per week, no more than 10 reps per session.

Routine was taken from Barry Ross track and field coach.

My workout is deadlifts, followed by plyometrics after each set, i drop the weight at the top to remove eccentric portion of movement. So am eliminating soreness.

Last week did 3 sessions all felt good and pushed the weight up on each session.

J L S
08-23-2012, 03:52 AM
Look into the 5/3/1 programme, the ed coan deadlift routine or at least a push/pull/legs type of split to give you some real training balance and a solid proven routine.

RhodeHouse
08-23-2012, 06:06 AM
Pull 1x a week and Squat the other day. Hammer the assistance work like Scott mentioned. Also, spend a good amount of time doing Bent Rows, DB Rows and building the upper back.

As a note, sprinting is VERY taxing on the system (legs). It will take away from your strength training. I'm not saying don't do it, but it is something that will be an issue.

Alex.V
08-23-2012, 07:46 AM
As a note, sprinting is VERY taxing on the system (legs). It will take away from your strength training. I'm not saying don't do it, but it is something that will be an issue.

This stood out to me too. You're essentially blasting your hamstrings five times a week- not the best for recovery.

Bruiser
08-23-2012, 11:50 AM
this is the only thing that springs out to me. If that means as it reads, you really dont want to be deadlifting 3x a week, once heavy and maybe a second time as some form of partial pull/speed pull or accesory movement.

As for building the deadlift pretty much what scott has said, work your grip also and review your technique often


Pull 1x a week and Squat the other day. Hammer the assistance work like Scott mentioned. Also, spend a good amount of time doing Bent Rows, DB Rows and building the upper back.

As a note, sprinting is VERY taxing on the system (legs). It will take away from your strength training. I'm not saying don't do it, but it is something that will be an issue.

Take this advice! Some great ideas. The LAST thing you want to be doing in order to build your deadlift is deadlifting 3x a week! That's just a real bad idea. Look into the conjugate method (Westside) if you want to be working on it more than one day a week.

theBarzeen
08-23-2012, 05:34 PM
Wow.... some good advice here already but I could probably add a little to this.

I've seen guys who pull heavy every week, once a week..... who stall and barely make any gains year after year..... it doesn't work. I've tried it when I was first getting in to powerlifting and I've seen other guys do it out of stupidity or just ego.

5/3/1 is good, but for you just wanting to deadlift I'd look in to the Coan program.... either way you need to back off of the main lift enough to get your accessory work in to build your weak points.

If you have a power rack or even some blocks you can pull from mid shin or from above the knee to handle more weight and build your traps and grip.
You can stand on mats or a box and deficit deadlift. KK does this a lot.
You should be doing some squats, especially front squats to build the quads, as well as some GHR or romanian deads to build the hamstrings.....


Even then I still wouldn't pull heavy every week. At least wait for every other or even every third.
Rotate that around, pulling light from deficit one week with some heavy rack pulls after. Speed pulls and reps the next week, then heavy singles the third..... When I was pulling 2 plates I could pull twice a week, by 3 and 4 plates I could still pull every week.... even as I was getting in to the 5's I could pull heavy every week.... but to progress past that I had to cycle my training like I mentioned above. Now in the 7's and working on 8 I only pull heavy off of the floor maybe once a month. The big weights just beat you up too much to recover and progress.

Either way, good luck.

Silverback
08-24-2012, 02:44 AM
Really appreciate the advice fellas, I knew asking here would be good for me!

Bearing in mind I would like to get to a 500lb deadlift, but keep size gains at bay and hopefully increase my sprint acceleration...

I was thinking maybe doing a Westside Barbell type routine? would that work? Read the coan routine and it confused the hell out of me!

The hardest thing i have in my head is how to treat each session for example my top pulls in last 4 workouts have been

Workout1 155kg x 2
workout 2 160kg x 2
workout 3 165kg x 2
workout 4 170kg x 2

All i did was try and beat last sessions best and i did, it felt comfortable each time, i wasnt struggling to pull. and i added 15kg over the space of 10 days.

Now if i move to deadlifting 1x per week then do i try and go for more than 5kg jumps?

Or is my approach of trying to better each workout the wrong approach?! feel confused as to whats the smartest way to approach this!

J L S
08-24-2012, 05:41 AM
What we are all trying to get at is you dont need to deadlift just straight from the floor every week, you can use a variety of different deadlift based main exercises and assistance movements that will also build your deadlift up without actually having to perform the lift itself every workout.

The way you're deadlift is progressing at the moment is awesome and 15kg over 10 days is more than some people who are more advanced get in a year, which leads me onto the next point. The stronger you become the harder it becomes to recover from the stress placed on your central nervous system from deadlifting (its generally the most taxing lift)

You wont just be able to keep adding weight all the way upto 500lbs and beyond or everybody would be deadlifting 800lbs+ in no time, and believe me, thats not the case LOL

Now as for your approach you can continue on the path you are untill it stalls, which is what we are all trying to steer you away from, OR you can go down another route such as any of the ones mentioned above in earlier posts and continue to make gains and remain injury free for alot longer! (you cant lift 0lbs injured).

If you do go down a westside barbell based route, the way it works out and the easiest way I can think of explaining it is in this format and for example sake:

week1- deadlift off a platform (deficit deadlift)
week2- speed deadlifts
week3- rack/pin deadlift
week4- higher rep accesorry work
repeat

you would perform your deadlift sessions like that above obviously following up that main exercise with hamstring/glute/lower and upper back/ab work. record your top sets for the day on that given exercise. You track you're progress by beating your old Records. So if in week 1 you finished on a 405lbx3 deadlift, then in week 5 when you come back to the deficit deadlifts and finish on 425lbsx3 you know you have gotten stronger, so when you finally come back to regular deadlifts off the floor to test your max you can also expect some strength gains there too. Thats as basic as I can think of putting it!

Silverback
08-24-2012, 09:07 AM
What we are all trying to get at is you dont need to deadlift just straight from the floor every week, you can use a variety of different deadlift based main exercises and assistance movements that will also build your deadlift up without actually having to perform the lift itself every workout.

The way you're deadlift is progressing at the moment is awesome and 15kg over 10 days is more than some people who are more advanced get in a year, which leads me onto the next point. The stronger you become the harder it becomes to recover from the stress placed on your central nervous system from deadlifting (its generally the most taxing lift)

You wont just be able to keep adding weight all the way upto 500lbs and beyond or everybody would be deadlifting 800lbs+ in no time, and believe me, thats not the case LOL

Now as for your approach you can continue on the path you are untill it stalls, which is what we are all trying to steer you away from, OR you can go down another route such as any of the ones mentioned above in earlier posts and continue to make gains and remain injury free for alot longer! (you cant lift 0lbs injured).

If you do go down a westside barbell based route, the way it works out and the easiest way I can think of explaining it is in this format and for example sake:

week1- deadlift off a platform (deficit deadlift)
week2- speed deadlifts
week3- rack/pin deadlift
week4- higher rep accesorry work
repeat

you would perform your deadlift sessions like that above obviously following up that main exercise with hamstring/glute/lower and upper back/ab work. record your top sets for the day on that given exercise. You track you're progress by beating your old Records. So if in week 1 you finished on a 405lbx3 deadlift, then in week 5 when you come back to the deficit deadlifts and finish on 425lbsx3 you know you have gotten stronger, so when you finally come back to regular deadlifts off the floor to test your max you can also expect some strength gains there too. Thats as basic as I can think of putting it!

I typed out some long reply and for some reason it dissapeared when i clicked reply!

Basically was saying big thanks for that reply and has made perfect sense to me now, the progress thing especially hits home! Obviously i can't keep progressing like I am, the only issue with how things are now is. my 'virtual' max is 175kg based on my last lift was 170kg x 2 but considering my rate of progress. Maybe my actual max is higher than i think?!

The plan now from doing some reading is to do Ed Coans deadlift routine, seems straight forward and simple reckon i need that, considering im quite simple! lol

Thanks again mate, ps are you from UK??

Justin Randal
08-24-2012, 09:46 AM
Hammer the hamstrings with RDLs and GMs. Pull throughs, dimel deads, and glute hams need to be your friend. Speed work and block pulls should be used often.

If you have a SSB or Yoke bar use it for assistance work.
Add deep squats ti this and you're golden!!

Bruiser
08-24-2012, 09:50 AM
Add deep squats ti this and you're golden!!

Bout time you chimed in! Lol

J L S
08-24-2012, 10:42 AM
I typed out some long reply and for some reason it dissapeared when i clicked reply!

Basically was saying big thanks for that reply and has made perfect sense to me now, the progress thing especially hits home! Obviously i can't keep progressing like I am, the only issue with how things are now is. my 'virtual' max is 175kg based on my last lift was 170kg x 2 but considering my rate of progress. Maybe my actual max is higher than i think?!

The plan now from doing some reading is to do Ed Coans deadlift routine, seems straight forward and simple reckon i need that, considering im quite simple! lol

Thanks again mate, ps are you from UK??

you're rate of progress is awesome haha, and its no problem, the conjugate seems really compliated when you first start reading about it. Have to really try and wrap your head round things but once youve been using it some time it gets easier.

the ed coan routine is brutal, we had laurence shahlaei come to our gym and he said that was his favourite deadlift routine ever.

and finally yes I am from the UK!

muscle_g
08-24-2012, 02:01 PM
Nothing to really add in here, because this is all some really good advice. I like to do heavy squats once a week and then on my deadlift day I like to start off with either close-stance squats or front squats and then I go to deadlift. Hit the hamstrings and glutes hard and heavy. and on your bench day hit the upperback and lats hard.

theBarzeen
08-24-2012, 08:09 PM
The only thing left here.... because there's so much solid advice here..... is that your progression on a heavy day is rough. Trying to do all of those heavy doubles will kill you before you get to the top end.

For example if I am going to try to pull 750 in the gym my progression would be
225x3
405x1
495x1
585x1
675x1
725x1
750x1

At MOST.... if I've squatted before and am already warm I'll just go
405x1
585x1
675x1
725x1, OR just jump right to 750


If your goal is to pull a max single don't do all of that work to get there. Warm up with as little effort as possible, handle a few weights to get the feel of it in your hands so that the big weights don't get in your head.... then just go for what you want.

If you want 400 try
135x3
225x1
315x1
365x1
405x1

Do your reps afterwards.


I once saw Jose Garcia pull 865 in a meet we held for a lifter that passed... his warm-ups were 225, 600, 765. THAT'S IT!

J L S
08-24-2012, 08:21 PM
I once saw Jose Garcia pull 865 in a meet we held for a lifter that passed... his warm-ups were 225, 600, 765. THAT'S IT!

good god, thats awesome!

joey54
08-25-2012, 09:32 AM
Great advice here so far. You don't need to do a ton, just find some things which work and stay consistent.

Bruiser
08-25-2012, 09:40 AM
I never thought I'd be able to DL at all because of a botched back surgery a few years back. I was told I'd never lift more than 50 lbs again and the worst part is... I believed them and gave up. Then last year I decided I wanted to do a PL meet. So I started deadlifting again. Conventional pulling just didn't feel right and I could never move much more than 200 without having pain. So I started pulling sumo. I had worked up to 315 (at a bw of 270) before I ended up in the hospital for 5 weeks with pancreatitis and ulcerative colitis. I ended up missing the meet I wanted to do and lost over 60 lbs. Now, back at 225 lbs I've got my sumo DL back to 315. I worked with a PL crew at Jakked Hardcore in IL who helped me dial in my form. Well, yesterday I was gonna just do speed work but my hips felt tight trying to pull sumo. So I decided to try pulling conventional. And I pulled 320! So not only a 5 lb PR, but in reality it was at least 50-60 lb PR for my conventional DL!

With this long winded story, I'm trying to show you that if you do other types of DL, your conventional pull WILL get a helluva lot stronger. You don't need to do the same thing every week or find a complicated program. Just change it up weekly and it will transfer over to your pull. Good luck man.

Silverback
08-25-2012, 11:20 AM
Awesome advice guys, means alot to get so many of you giving your input and guidance.

Makes a whole lot more sense now, am right path now! :) thanks again!!