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ncsuLuke
09-22-2012, 04:40 PM
I saw this posted on the facebook page of the CrossFit gym I go to and it just makes me shake my head. Look, I get that CrossFit WODs can be really tough and you need to be able to push through to finish but just because you have a hard workout now and then does not make you some sort of warrior. Shit like this just gets on my nerves and is the reason CrossFit has a bad rep with a lot of the bodybuilding/power lifting crowd.

I mean, "I fear no man but I fear my workout. If I don't fear my workout. It isn't hard enough." Really? ...Really?

/rant

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/384266_10151160585119362_789390245_n.jpg

Tom Mutaffis
09-23-2012, 07:13 AM
Morning class at this gym...

http://readjack.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/sgt-hartman.jpg

Alex.V
09-23-2012, 02:23 PM
There ARE a million ways to deadlift. I see a dozen variations every day. Most of them completely idiotic.

I appreciate the sentiment there and all, but... I'm not sure I'm hardcore enough to even read the full list.

ncsuLuke
09-23-2012, 02:48 PM
There ARE a million ways to deadlift. I see a dozen variations every day. Most of them completely idiotic.

I appreciate the sentiment there and all, but... I'm not sure I'm hardcore enough to even read the full list.

A+

Stuff like this just makes me shake my head. And the fact that people believe yet are hardcore because of their Crossfit workout really need to step back into reality.

Falcon63
09-23-2012, 03:47 PM
I barely drop a single set during my actual workouts (not counting cardio, obviously), yet I look better and am stronger/have more endurance/stamina than many CFers at my gym.

Not trying to hate on CF (even though I hate it), but sweating a lot and feeling sore doesn't mean your workout was productive.

Paulo_Santos
09-23-2012, 04:32 PM
Good God, it is just a piece of paper with motivational writing on it. It was taken from Mike's Gym, which is an Olympic Lifting Gym.

krazylarry
09-23-2012, 05:05 PM
I found the never cheating line funny. Kipping pulling ups and all the reps for time stuff, all those reps are cheating reps... Guess I'm not a hardcore weekend warrior, so I dont understand.

Paulo_Santos
09-23-2012, 05:16 PM
I found the never cheating line funny. Kipping pulling ups and all the reps for time stuff, all those reps are cheating reps... Guess I'm not a hardcore weekend warrior, so I dont understand.

After all of these years, people still make these comments about kipping pullups. You have to be kidding me. There are strict pullups/chinups, weighted pullups, and kipping pullups. The strict and weighted versions are for strength, while the kipping pullups are for conditioning. Similar to pushups and Burpees. The only time either one is wrong is when you do the wrong ones. Doing Strict pullups when doing the Murph would be a dumb idea, just like doing kipping pullups in a workout that called for 3 pullups would be dumb.

ncsuLuke
09-23-2012, 06:03 PM
Doing Murph in itself is a dumb idea

Paulo_Santos
09-23-2012, 06:08 PM
Doing Murph in itself is a dumb idea

LOL. That, I can agree with.

chris mason
09-23-2012, 07:17 PM
I don't care for that stuff either, but if you do ANY kind of social networking you will see that people love that crap and it is very pervasive in the world today. It is hardly exclusive to CrossFit.

Falcon63
09-24-2012, 05:31 AM
After all of these years, people still make these comments about kipping pullups. You have to be kidding me. There are strict pullups/chinups, weighted pullups, and kipping pullups. The strict and weighted versions are for strength, while the kipping pullups are for conditioning. Similar to pushups and Burpees. The only time either one is wrong is when you do the wrong ones. Doing Strict pullups when doing the Murph would be a dumb idea, just like doing kipping pullups in a workout that called for 3 pullups would be dumb.

Doing kipping pullups are a nice way to tear your labrum.

If you want to do conditioning, do jump roping, do a stationary bike, run...

Alex.V
09-24-2012, 05:34 AM
I don't care for that stuff either, but if you do ANY kind of social networking you will see that people love that crap and it is very pervasive in the world today. It is hardly exclusive to CrossFit.

This is true. Look at the marketing for P90x...

minnieapple
09-24-2012, 05:55 AM
Doing kipping pullups are a nice way to tear your labrum.

If you want to do conditioning, do jump roping, do a stationary bike, run...

This is what I've never understood. Sure, kipping pullups might be better for conditioning than strict or weighted pullups, but why even do pullups for conditioning. There are so many less risky ways to do conditioning that are even better than the kipping pullup for the actual goal -- conditioning.

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 08:27 AM
Doing kipping pullups are a nice way to tear your labrum.

If you want to do conditioning, do jump roping, do a stationary bike, run...

Sure, if you do them wrong, but then again, you can hurt yourself doing anything if you do it wrong.

Bruiser
09-24-2012, 09:28 AM
As a powerlifter, I do have a sincere hatred for all that is Crossfit. It just doesn't make sense to me personally. I do know a lot of strongmen competitors that are doing it along with their regular training and it is helping them in competition. But here's my official stand on it:

Crossfit to me is like P90X, Insanity, or even the guy that only does upper body work in the gym. Sure, it seems stupid to a lot of us... but at least they're getting their asses off the couch and doing something. Will you ever see me doing any of those things? No. But to each their own, and it's better than shoving their faces full of McD's and watching reality TV.

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 10:53 AM
I never understand why powerlifters hate CrossFit so much, especially when so many CrossFiters are doing powerlifting based programming. CrossFit has changed so much in the last couple of years. There are so many different versions of it out there, so lumping CrossFit into one huge pot is ignorant.

Bruiser
09-24-2012, 11:00 AM
I never understand why powerlifters hate CrossFit so much, especially when so many CrossFiters are doing powerlifting based programming. CrossFit has changed so much in the last couple of years. There are so many different versions of it out there, so lumping CrossFit into one huge pot is ignorant.

I just basically said that I think it's cool of them to do what they're doing even thought it's not for me. And you call me ignorant? Nice.

ehubbard
09-24-2012, 11:02 AM
I never understand why powerlifters hate CrossFit so much, especially when so many CrossFiters are doing powerlifting based programming. CrossFit has changed so much in the last couple of years. There are so many different versions of it out there, so lumping CrossFit into one huge pot is ignorant.

I think you just answered your own question there, buddy. You don't understand why a group of people don't like your sport (which is a generalization I might add) and then call them ignorant (because they make a generalization about you). That pretty much sums it up right there.

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 11:03 AM
I just basically said that I think it's cool of them to do what they're doing even thought it's not for me. And you call me ignorant? Nice.

I never quote you. Sorry if you feel that it was directed at you.

Bruiser
09-24-2012, 11:06 AM
I think you just answered your own question there, buddy. You don't understand why a group of people don't like your sport (which is a generalization I might add) and then call them ignorant (because they make a generalization about you). That pretty much sums it up right there.

Thank you.

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 11:10 AM
I think you just answered your own question there, buddy. You don't understand why a group of people don't like your sport (which is a generalization I might add) and then call them ignorant (because they make a generalization about you). That pretty much sums it up right there.

I'm basing it on the anti CrossFit comments on this thread and from other powerlifters on other forums. If you aren't one of them, then it obviously doesn't apply to you. There are different sections on this forum for different things. If CrossFit isn't your thing, then don't post here in the CrossFit section. That's how the back and forth crap starts. You don't see me going to the powerlifting or bodybuilding sections starting crap.

Bruiser
09-24-2012, 11:16 AM
Anybody else notice how on the list, #5 and #10 contradict each other?! Lol.

ehubbard
09-24-2012, 11:27 AM
I'm basing it on the anti CrossFit comments on this thread and from other powerlifters on other forums. If you aren't one of them, then it obviously doesn't apply to you. There are different sections on this forum for different things. If CrossFit isn't your thing, then don't post here in the CrossFit section. That's how the back and forth crap starts. You don't see me going to the powerlifting or bodybuilding sections starting crap.

If you said to me powerlifting is the stupidest thing ever, do you know what I would do. Not care. Why do you feel the need to defend your sport so vehemently? Does it need defending? Are you looking for confirmation from other people? Why do you need to respond to generalizations by making your own generalizations and insulting peoples intelligence?

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 11:34 AM
If you said to me powerlifting is the stupidest thing ever, do you know what I would do. Not care. Why do you feel the need to defend your sport so vehemently? Does it need defending? Are you looking for confirmation from other people? Why do you need to respond to generalizations by making your own generalizations and insulting peoples intelligence?

How about this? Sorry that I generalized. Can we just get along and stop acting like a bunch of school girls?

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 11:42 AM
FYI, I program a Westside based CrossFit programming because I want to get strong, but I need my conditioning for work and soccer. So I get the best of both worlds. I don't do too many MetCons over 12 minutes because they are pointless and many other crossfitters are doing the same thing. That's why I said I don't like Murph. It is pointless and it beats you up for no reason.

Alex.V
09-24-2012, 01:28 PM
How about this? Sorry that I generalized. Can we just get along and stop acting like a bunch of school girls?

No. You're ugly. Also, my dad can beat up your dad.

Falcon63
09-24-2012, 02:14 PM
I never understand why powerlifters hate CrossFit so much, especially when so many CrossFiters are doing powerlifting based programming. CrossFit has changed so much in the last couple of years. There are so many different versions of it out there, so lumping CrossFit into one huge pot is ignorant.
When you don't do the EXACT WODs on the CF website, you are no longer doing CF. "Cross-training" is not limited to CF.

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 02:23 PM
When you don't do the EXACT WODs on the CF website, you are no longer doing CF. "Cross-training" is not limited to CF.

That is complete BS. Show me where it says that. No where in my Level 1 Cert did they mention that, nor did they mention that when I became affiliated.

Falcon63
09-24-2012, 02:47 PM
That is complete BS. Show me where it says that. No where in my Level 1 Cert did they mention that, nor did they mention that when I became affiliated.

Okay, then tell me, what classifies a workout as a "Crossfit" workout? Give me specific parameters if what you're saying is true.

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 03:03 PM
Okay, then tell me, what classifies a workout as a "Crossfit" workout? Give me specific parameters if what you're saying is true.

Constantly varied, functional movements, performed at a high intensity.

justiNCSU
09-24-2012, 03:09 PM
When you don't do the EXACT WODs on the CF website, you are no longer doing CF. "Cross-training" is not limited to CF.

dude im not a huge fan of crossfit, but your comment is just stupid

Falcon63
09-24-2012, 03:18 PM
Constantly varied, functional movements, performed at a high intensity.
P90x does that as well...those things aren't specific to CF.

Besides, "functional strength" is a myth, there is no such thing. What does that even mean? It's all marketing schemes, IMO.

The only thing that is OFFICIALLY CrossFit is the CROSSFIT workouts on the CROSSFIT site. You can't just do a bunch of random Olympic lifts, do them at a high intensity, and claim it's "CrossFit".

r2473
09-24-2012, 03:30 PM
I found the never cheating line funny. Kipping pulling ups and all the reps for time stuff, all those reps are cheating reps... Guess I'm not a hardcore weekend warrior, so I dont understand.

I always fail to understand why people feel they need to add weight to pullups when they fail to do even one in a full range of motion.

The answer is, people do pullups for different reasons. Some do kipping pullups for fitness purposes as explained by Paulo. Others do a very limited range of motion (and even some kipping), but want to add as much weight as they can. Others start from a full dead hang and pull slow and controlled until the bar touches the upper part of their chest, then return to dead hand in a slow controlled manner, pause, and do another rep in a similar fashion.

Anyone want to talk about what constitutes a "real" muscle-up? What is the range of motion for a "real" dip? What your back angle should be for a "real" barbell row?

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 03:33 PM
P90x does that as well...those things aren't specific to CF.

Besides, "functional strength" is a myth, there is no such thing. What does that even mean? It's all marketing schemes, IMO.

The only thing that is OFFICIALLY CrossFit is the CROSSFIT workouts on the CROSSFIT site. You can't just do a bunch of random Olympic lifts, do them at a high intensity, and claim it's "CrossFit".

I don't know what else to say. If that is what you believe, then so be it. I can care less. I have my website and it is approved by CrossFit. If they didn't think it was CrossFit, they wouldn't have approved it.

Functional meaning compound lifts.

Falcon63
09-24-2012, 08:04 PM
Functional meaning compound lifts.
So, doing compound lifts at a high intensity is CrossFit? I always thought that was powerlifting...

Paulo_Santos
09-24-2012, 08:53 PM
So, doing compound lifts at a high intensity is CrossFit? I always thought that was powerlifting...

Maybe you haven't realize how similar in some ways they are.

Chubrock
09-24-2012, 09:23 PM
Maybe you haven't realize how similar in some ways they are.

Absolutely! Just like how similar football and basketball are. I mean they both involve a ball, right? And some dudes running around on a playing surface. And they've both got refs.

chris mason
09-25-2012, 12:07 AM
CrossFit is not defined by the main site WODs. CrossFit definitely has its own style in that fitness and strength movements from many different disciplines are incorporated into high intensity of effort work done most typically with a timed element.

In any event, why people feel compelled to knock it is just the us vs. them mentality that is so pervasive in human behavior. Try to grow beyond your instincts and appreciate something which is outside of your normal sphere. CrossFit, and I have personally seen this, has made a LOT of people get into AMAZING condition. It is a very cool training medium.

Falcon63
09-25-2012, 06:06 AM
CrossFit is not defined by the main site WODs. CrossFit definitely has its own style in that fitness and strength movements from many different disciplines are incorporated into high intensity of effort work done most typically with a timed element.

In any event, why people feel compelled to knock it is just the us vs. them mentality that is so pervasive in human behavior. Try to grow beyond your instincts and appreciate something which is outside of your normal sphere. CrossFit, and I have personally seen this, has made a LOT of people get into AMAZING condition. It is a very cool training medium.

No, I'm not trying to knock crossfit. While honestly I think it's a POS program, it is an AWESOME sport to watch, and I watch the CF Games every time I see them on.

I just don't believe that you can do a bunch of random Olympic lifts for time and automatically call it CrossFit. That's the kind of stuff that gives CF a bad name, along with many trainers who teach bad form.

chris mason
09-25-2012, 07:14 PM
No, I'm not trying to knock crossfit. While honestly I think it's a POS program, it is an AWESOME sport to watch, and I watch the CF Games every time I see them on.

I just don't believe that you can do a bunch of random Olympic lifts for time and automatically call it CrossFit. That's the kind of stuff that gives CF a bad name, along with many trainers who teach bad form.

And why exactly do you think it is a POS program?

Falcon63
09-25-2012, 07:23 PM
I really don't want to get into this argument. I have my reasons, but I'm not trying to start arguments or fights here. It can only end bad.

Ben Norris
09-25-2012, 08:40 PM
I really don't want to get into this argument. I have my reasons, but I'm not trying to start arguments or fights here. It can only end bad.

That horse has well and truly bolted Falcon. You cannot just come in call Crossfit programming a POS and then when you get called on it you run away with your tail between your legs. Supply a reason and see if it stands up to scrutiny.

Falcon63
09-26-2012, 05:14 AM
That horse has well and truly bolted Falcon. You cannot just come in call Crossfit programming a POS and then when you get called on it you run away with your tail between your legs. Supply a reason and see if it stands up to scrutiny.
Tail between my legs? WTF?

Like I said, I just don't want to start a flame war. If you like CF, all the power to you. I don't. I have my reasons.

Travis Bell
09-26-2012, 11:40 AM
Little hypocritical to say you don't want to start a flame war but you call the programming a POS.....

That's a HUGE generalization to not even attempt to back up.

joey54
09-26-2012, 11:46 AM
This is the guy who argued about his garage floor and deadlifting. Do you expect anything less?

minnieapple
09-26-2012, 02:38 PM
why people feel compelled to knock it is just the us vs. them mentality that is so pervasive in human behavior.

Actually, I think it is more the us vs. them mentality that crossfitters have intentionally cultivated: Your warm-up is our workout; P90x is man-aerobics; if you have a 900 pound deadlift or a can run a 4 minute mile then there is something wrong with your training; crossfitting builds more muscle than traditional bodybuilding; the only contribution to sport/fitness in all of exercise science is the discovery of steriod use, everything else is wrong; etc.

I realize not everyone who crossfits buys into this (I don't), but it is a big part of why so many are critical of the sport.

Paul Sousa
09-26-2012, 03:31 PM
I see CrossFit as a competition now more than a training method since the Games have grown so much and the training has taken on so many different flavors. If you train for powerlifting you don't say "I do powerlifting" when telling someone what training method you use. You would say I do WSB, 531, etc. To me that's where the semantic confusion lies. CrossFitters are trying to get better at CrossFit, but they use many different training methods to get there, so calling them all CrossFit is pretty ambiguous. I also feel it discounts the effort coaches put into developing their own training methods to improve their athletes at CrossFit. In powerliftnig WSB is Louie's brainchild that helped develop some of the best powerlifters ever. If a CF coach comes up with an amazing method like that for his athletes I would expect him to want some credit for that, and just saying they do CrossFit seems to take away from that.

/rant

Yosh86
09-26-2012, 04:11 PM
Actually, I think it is more the us vs. them mentality that crossfitters have intentionally cultivated: Your warm-up is our workout; P90x is man-aerobics; if you have a 900 pound deadlift or a can run a 4 minute mile then there is something wrong with your training; crossfitting builds more muscle than traditional bodybuilding; the only contribution to sport/fitness in all of exercise science is the discovery of steriod use, everything else is wrong; etc.

I realize not everyone who crossfits buys into this (I don't), but it is a big part of why so many are critical of the sport.

"Forging Elite Fitness" also forges elitist attitude in some people.

Ben Norris
09-26-2012, 05:01 PM
Actually, I think it is more the us vs. them mentality that crossfitters have intentionally cultivated: Your warm-up is our workout; P90x is man-aerobics; if you have a 900 pound deadlift or a can run a 4 minute mile then there is something wrong with your training; crossfitting builds more muscle than traditional bodybuilding; the only contribution to sport/fitness in all of exercise science is the discovery of steriod use, everything else is wrong; etc.

I realize not everyone who crossfits buys into this (I don't), but it is a big part of why so many are critical of the sport.

This is better. Actually stating some reasons you dislike Crossfit. People disliking Crossfit because of these above reasons is ok. People like Falcon63 who calls it a POS offers no reason and runs like a schoolgirl when asked to back up his statement pisses me off.

Has Crossfit been perfect? Hell no. Has Crossfit said some stupid stuff? Yes. Do all Crossfitters have an Elitest attitude who hate people who can deadlift 900 pounds or run 4 minute miles? Hell NO. There are a great many of us who have nothing but respect for other elite athletes and that reflects in Paulo choosing to do a modified Westside template to maximise his strength and condition results. Hell the 2nd fittest man on earth Matt Chan sees the advantages of using Westside. There are some people out there who think doing 1 hour metcons is the way to be elite but just like those people who half squat or bicep curl in the squat rack do not represent all powerlifters these people do not represent all Crossfitters.

I would prefer to see a mutual respect between our two communites where we can share ideas and training methodoligies where neither side takes snide stabs at each other, thus making both communities better.

Paulo_Santos
09-26-2012, 07:04 PM
I see CrossFit as Jeet Kune Do. Jeet Kune Do wasn't a style. It was a mixture of everything and it could be anything, depending on the individual and what he added to it. Sure, it had a base, but it could be morphed into basically anything. Same with CrossFit. It has a base, but depending on the individual, it could be made into anything. You can make it Powerlifting based like several of the Conjugate-CrossFit hybrids, Olympic Lifting based like Outlaw, 70's Big based like CrossFit Football, etc. The problem is that some people just don't accept that for whatever reason.

Travis Bell
09-26-2012, 07:51 PM
This is better. Actually stating some reasons you dislike Crossfit. People disliking Crossfit because of these above reasons is ok. People like Falcon63 who calls it a POS offers no reason and runs like a schoolgirl when asked to back up his statement pisses me off.

Has Crossfit been perfect? Hell no. Has Crossfit said some stupid stuff? Yes. Do all Crossfitters have an Elitest attitude who hate people who can deadlift 900 pounds or run 4 minute miles? Hell NO. There are a great many of us who have nothing but respect for other elite athletes and that reflects in Paulo choosing to do a modified Westside template to maximise his strength and condition results. Hell the 2nd fittest man on earth Matt Chan sees the advantages of using Westside. There are some people out there who think doing 1 hour metcons is the way to be elite but just like those people who half squat or bicep curl in the squat rack do not represent all powerlifters these people do not represent all Crossfitters.

I would prefer to see a mutual respect between our two communites where we can share ideas and training methodoligies where neither side takes snide stabs at each other, thus making both communities better.


Well said! Great post

chris mason
09-26-2012, 09:19 PM
Actually, I think it is more the us vs. them mentality that crossfitters have intentionally cultivated: Your warm-up is our workout; P90x is man-aerobics; if you have a 900 pound deadlift or a can run a 4 minute mile then there is something wrong with your training; crossfitting builds more muscle than traditional bodybuilding; the only contribution to sport/fitness in all of exercise science is the discovery of steriod use, everything else is wrong; etc.

I realize not everyone who crossfits buys into this (I don't), but it is a big part of why so many are critical of the sport.

Did I exclude CFers from humanity?

Those motivational quotes are just that. Someone getting bent out of shape about them is a little silly in my opinion.

minnieapple
09-27-2012, 01:23 AM
I see CrossFit as a competition now more than a training method since the Games have grown so much and the training has taken on so many different flavors.

I think this is an important point -- depending on the context, crossfit can mean different things.

1. Originally, crossfit was a training program created by Greg. And if you read his old articles and interviews, he does a pretty good job of defining what is and is not crossfit (despite what many critics say). Mainsite, as well as the theoretical template, are probably the best (though obviously not the only) examples of this version of crossfit.

2. Then, as the Games, and other competitions, grew in popularity, crossfit also came to mean the sport. So now anyone who competes is a crossfitter and when they compete they are crossfitting, regardless of whether they actually crossfit in training.

3. Finally, we have Crossfit (big C) -- the trademark. Anyone who pays the licensing fee can use the trademark, so now we have people doing Westside, 5/3/1/, GSLP, Starting Strength, 5x5, etc., etc. and slapping the Crossfit trademark on it (even though some of these programs are the antithesis of Greg's vision).

So yeah, it gets confusing.

minnieapple
09-27-2012, 01:43 AM
Those motivational quotes are just that. Someone getting bent out of shape about them is a little silly in my opinion.

Just so I am clear on how things work around here.

A bunch of crossfitters insult all forms of fitness that are not crossfit. Those insults are just motivational quotes and getting bent out of shape about them is silly.

However, ...

Falcon63 says: "No, I'm not trying to knock crossfit. While honestly I think it's a POS program, it is an AWESOME sport to watch, and I watch the CF Games every time I see them on."

So he loves crossfit the sport (#2 in my post above), but doesn't think much of crossfit the training program by Greg (#1 above). In response, a bunch of people on here, including you, immediately "get bent out of shape" and jump on him. This reaction, apparently, is not silly.

OK, I think I get it.

minnieapple
09-27-2012, 01:47 AM
This is better. Actually stating some reasons you dislike Crossfit.

I should probably point out that I actually like crossfit, the sport, and I am myself a crossfitter.

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 06:53 AM
Just so I am clear on how things work around here.

A bunch of crossfitters insult all forms of fitness that are not crossfit. Those insults are just motivational quotes and getting bent out of shape about them is silly.

However, ...

Falcon63 says: "No, I'm not trying to knock crossfit. While honestly I think it's a POS program, it is an AWESOME sport to watch, and I watch the CF Games every time I see them on."

So he loves crossfit the sport (#2 in my post above), but doesn't think much of crossfit the training program by Greg (#1 above). In response, a bunch of people on here, including you, immediately "get bent out of shape" and jump on him. This reaction, apparently, is not silly.

OK, I think I get it.

The difference is that none of us here said any of those things and we don't insult powerlifter, bodybuilders, etc. matter of fact, we respect them. Falcon63, on the other hand, did come here and insult us crossfitters.

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 06:55 AM
I think this is an important point -- depending on the context, crossfit can mean different things.

1. Originally, crossfit was a training program created by Greg. And if you read his old articles and interviews, he does a pretty good job of defining what is and is not crossfit (despite what many critics say). Mainsite, as well as the theoretical template, are probably the best (though obviously not the only) examples of this version of crossfit.

2. Then, as the Games, and other competitions, grew in popularity, crossfit also came to mean the sport. So now anyone who competes is a crossfitter and when they compete they are crossfitting, regardless of whether they actually crossfit in training.

3. Finally, we have Crossfit (big C) -- the trademark. Anyone who pays the licensing fee can use the trademark, so now we have people doing Westside, 5/3/1/, GSLP, Starting Strength, 5x5, etc., etc. and slapping the Crossfit trademark on it (even though some of these programs are the antithesis of Greg's vision).

So yeah, it gets confusing.

You have to separate CrossFit the exercise program from CrossFit the sport.

r2473
09-27-2012, 09:30 AM
Hell the 2nd fittest man on earth Matt Chan

This strikes me as so funny

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 11:03 AM
This strikes me as so funny

I don't know why it strikes you as funny. It is a competition held open to everyone in the world. The winner of the women's competition the last two years isn't even American.

Do you also find it funny that the NBA, NFL, MLB, and the NHL winners all claim to be world champions? Who else do they play besides other teams in North America? At least Spain can claim that they are world champions after winning the World Cup.

r2473
09-27-2012, 11:10 AM
I'm going to pull a Falcon63 and abstain from further posting on this.

But I still find it funny nonetheless.

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 11:22 AM
I'm going to pull a Falcon63 and abstain from further posting on this.

But I still find it funny nonetheless.

I never understood why you started in the first place. If you don't like CrossFit, then don't post here. Most of us that have been doing CrossFit for year and having great results don't need to hear from haters. We already know the positives and negatives.

chris mason
09-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Just so I am clear on how things work around here.

A bunch of crossfitters insult all forms of fitness that are not crossfit. Those insults are just motivational quotes and getting bent out of shape about them is silly.

However, ...

Falcon63 says: "No, I'm not trying to knock crossfit. While honestly I think it's a POS program, it is an AWESOME sport to watch, and I watch the CF Games every time I see them on."

So he loves crossfit the sport (#2 in my post above), but doesn't think much of crossfit the training program by Greg (#1 above). In response, a bunch of people on here, including you, immediately "get bent out of shape" and jump on him. This reaction, apparently, is not silly.

OK, I think I get it.


Here is how things work:

My site - I do whatever the fuck I want.

That pretty much sums it up.

If you don't like it please go away or we can help you with that if you prefer.

Alex.V
09-27-2012, 11:39 AM
I think the issue is with the word "fittest". There's no trademark on that.

I can out-lift, out run (in a 40 yard dash and in the mile), and outlast (in an ultra or ironman) any of the top tier of crossfitters (with a smattering of exceptions here and there), and I would NEVER, EVER make a claim to be one of the "fittest" people on the planet. Far from it. I'm a relatively unexceptional athlete. COULD these guys outperform me if they focused on these chosen activities? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

He might be the "crossfittest", but let's be honest, there are nearly unlimited parameters of "fitness", and the particular kind of interval anaerobic strength-endurance needed to excel at CrossFit is only one kind.

This sums up my issue with it, but CERTAINLY NOT with all CrossFit or all CrossFit enthusiasts- though it is a system of GPP, essentially, it is still relatively specific in what it focuses on within the entire realm of human performance. To claim that excelling at it makes one the "fittest" needs to have a bright, bold "TM" symbol next to "fittest". Hence the numerous adaptations when it comes to sports. If it truly made one a superior all around athlete, there would be no need to combine it with other training methods.

Then again, no sport is exempt from this. Olympic lifters and Powerlifters may argue all the time about who is "stronger". Football players and rugby players argue over who's tougher. Wrestlers and judoka, marathon runners and pro cyclists, decathletes and everyone else... There are thousands of ways to test human performance, and a sport or competition for each and every one or combination thereof.

Choose the ones you enjoy, and have at 'em. Strive to be the best at it, and no amount of shit talk will affect you.

chris mason
09-27-2012, 12:07 PM
A couple of points:

- CrossFit covers pretty much the entire spectrum of fitness, so if you are above average at pretty much everything as the best CFers are you would certainly make an argument you are the fittest.

- Obviously the title has a marketing component to it. CF is a business.

I understand your points, but I think you are placing too much emphasis on the claim. Does that make sense?

ehubbard
09-27-2012, 12:41 PM
Here is how things work:

My site - I do whatever the fuck I want.

That pretty much sums it up.

If you don't like it please go away or we can help you with that if you prefer.

This is my favorite post of all time!

Alex.V
09-27-2012, 01:05 PM
I understand your points, but I think you are placing too much emphasis on the claim. Does that make sense?

Fair points. I was just as much explaining where I think folks were coming from, and why that particular "fittest" statement may rub some people the wrong way. I'm not arguing either side here. :)

r2473
09-27-2012, 01:56 PM
I never understood why you started in the first place. If you don't like CrossFit, then don't post here. Most of us that have been doing CrossFit for year and having great results don't need to hear from haters. We already know the positives and negatives.

Lucky for me AlexV is able to calmly and articulately express what would sound more like a rant coming from me.

I understand "fittest" is a marketing tool. I just don't think it's a very good marketing tool.

Not that it matters, but I do "crossfit type stuff". I like to do gymnastic strength exercises. I'm also a runner. I've also built a pretty decent strenght base in the weight room. I see what crossfitters do and can handle most of it. That certainly doesn't make me a candidate for "fittest on earth".

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 02:15 PM
Lucky for me AlexV is able to calmly and articulately express what would sound more like a rant coming from me.

I understand "fittest" is a marketing tool. I just don't think it's a very good marketing tool.

Not that it matters, but I do "crossfit type stuff". I like to do gymnastic strength exercises. I'm also a runner. I've also built a pretty decent strenght base in the weight room. I see what crossfitters do and can handle most of it. That certainly doesn't make me a candidate for "fittest on earth".

As Chris indicate dabove, it is just a marketing tool. It isn't something I'm going to get all worked up over. For anyone to use that as a reason to hate CrossFit is just petty.

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 02:16 PM
I think the issue is with the word "fittest". There's no trademark on that.

I can out-lift, out run (in a 40 yard dash and in the mile), and outlast (in an ultra or ironman) any of the top tier of crossfitters (with a smattering of exceptions here and there), and I would NEVER, EVER make a claim to be one of the "fittest" people on the planet. Far from it. I'm a relatively unexceptional athlete. COULD these guys outperform me if they focused on these chosen activities? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

He might be the "crossfittest", but let's be honest, there are nearly unlimited parameters of "fitness", and the particular kind of interval anaerobic strength-endurance needed to excel at CrossFit is only one kind.

This sums up my issue with it, but CERTAINLY NOT with all CrossFit or all CrossFit enthusiasts- though it is a system of GPP, essentially, it is still relatively specific in what it focuses on within the entire realm of human performance. To claim that excelling at it makes one the "fittest" needs to have a bright, bold "TM" symbol next to "fittest". Hence the numerous adaptations when it comes to sports. If it truly made one a superior all around athlete, there would be no need to combine it with other training methods.

Then again, no sport is exempt from this. Olympic lifters and Powerlifters may argue all the time about who is "stronger". Football players and rugby players argue over who's tougher. Wrestlers and judoka, marathon runners and pro cyclists, decathletes and everyone else... There are thousands of ways to test human performance, and a sport or competition for each and every one or combination thereof.

Choose the ones you enjoy, and have at 'em. Strive to be the best at it, and no amount of shit talk will affect you.

I'd love to see you compete. I'd bet you'd kick a$$

r2473
09-27-2012, 02:31 PM
As Chris indicate dabove, it is just a marketing tool. It isn't something I'm going to get all worked up over. For anyone to use that as a reason to hate CrossFit is just petty.

I think your "hate crossfit" mentality also rubs me the wrong way.

You seem far more defensive than my post warrants.

minnieapple
09-27-2012, 04:55 PM
I think the issue is with the word "fittest".

The winner of the Games is the "world's fittest" just like the winner of the decathlon is the "world's greatest athlete." The winner of the decathlon may not be able to dunk, hit a free-throw, swim, bike, etc., but he did win the premiere competition that tests multiple aspects of athleticism, so he is the greatest athlete on earth. Same for Rich -- he may not beat all-comers in every possible measure of fitness, but he did beat all-comers in the premiere competition that tests fitness.

This kind of goes along with the whole criticism that crossfit isn't a sport because it's just exercise. Well, powerlifting, weighlifting, swimming, T&F, cycling, running etc. are all "just exercise" as well, but nobody (except Kenny Powers) says those aren't real sports.

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 05:02 PM
I think your "hate crossfit" mentality also rubs me the wrong way.

You seem far more defensive than my post warrants.

Sorry I rub you the wrong way. I've been around forums for a while and I never understood why people go to sections and get into arguments over things they don't like. If you don't like CrossFit, don't come to the CrossFit section. If you don't like P90X, don't go to their forum, etc.

minnieapple
09-27-2012, 05:05 PM
Falcon63, on the other hand, did come here and insult us crossfitters.

Not necessarily. He said he loves the sport (#2 above), he just thinks the programming is a POS. I can't speak for him, but based on his other statements, I think it's a fair assumption that he is referring to the original idea of crossfit programming laid out by Greg (#1 above). If so, even you would have to agree with that. Didn't you say that you do Westside influenced programming, that you think Murph is stupid, that what you do is similar to weightlifting? Your gym clearly fits into #3 above.

Ben Norris
09-27-2012, 06:26 PM
Not necessarily. He said he loves the sport (#2 above), he just thinks the programming is a POS. I can't speak for him, but based on his other statements, I think it's a fair assumption that he is referring to the original idea of crossfit programming laid out by Greg (#1 above). If so, even you would have to agree with that. Didn't you say that you do Westside influenced programming, that you think Murph is stupid, that what you do is similar to weightlifting? Your gym clearly fits into #3 above.

There are many different programs that encompass Crossfit, just like there are many programs that you can use for Powerlifting. SS, 5-3-1, GSLP, WSBB, 70s big ect ect. Does that mean that some of these are more effective to the be best powerlifter? Yes. Just like there are different programs to be the best at Crossfit and some are more effective than others. Despite this they are still Crossfit.

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 06:29 PM
Not necessarily. He said he loves the sport (#2 above), he just thinks the programming is a POS. I can't speak for him, but based on his other statements, I think it's a fair assumption that he is referring to the original idea of crossfit programming laid out by Greg (#1 above). If so, even you would have to agree with that. Didn't you say that you do Westside influenced programming, that you think Murph is stupid, that what you do is similar to weightlifting? Your gym clearly fits into #3 above.

The point I was trying to make was that CrossFit can be taylored to fit anyone. I don't like Murph because anything over 12 minutes is pointless for me and for my co-workers. If someone else wants to do murph, more power to them. As I indicated earlier on, CrossFit has changed from a lot of random flopping around to more intelligent programming.

Alex.V
09-27-2012, 08:52 PM
I'd love to see you compete. I'd bet you'd kick a$$

Or, I could totally suck. :) I've never focused on repeat anaerobic performance. Hell, I don't know how many power cleans I could do at a given weight after sprints or pull-ups. It's a different beast entirely, which is part of my point! Any combination of skills or disciplines is always more than the sum of its parts. (Or less, depending on who you ask).

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 08:56 PM
Or, I could totally suck. :) I've never focused on repeat anaerobic performance. Hell, I don't know how many power cleans I could do at a given weight after sprints or pull-ups. It's a different beast entirely, which is part of my point! Any combination of skills or disciplines is always more than the sum of its parts. (Or less, depending on who you ask).

CrossFit isn't just about doing MetCons anymore. They have some good strength workouts at the games every year. And it also involves a lot of skill stuff like Double Unders, Ring Dips, Muscle Ups, Handstand Pushups, and it is heavy into Olympc Lifts.

Chubrock
09-27-2012, 09:08 PM
Could somebody please define what crossfit is for me? The description always tends to rotate, at least in my opinion.

Paulo_Santos
09-27-2012, 10:18 PM
Could somebody please define what crossfit is for me? The description always tends to rotate, at least in my opinion.

Constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements.

krazylarry
09-28-2012, 12:52 AM
Constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements.

That could be almost anything though. I remember reading some where that at the CF games this year the 1st event was a triathlon. So if CF uses other sports in their competition, is it still CF? What's to keep them from added a wrestling match or a boxing fight? Shit, CF really is taking over the world.

Paulo_Santos
09-28-2012, 05:32 AM
That could be almost anything though. I remember reading some where that at the CF games this year the 1st event was a triathlon. So if CF uses other sports in their competition, is it still CF? What's to keep them from added a wrestling match or a boxing fight? Shit, CF really is taking over the world.

Yes, it is still CrossFit. Last year they had softball throwing contest as part of the games.

Bruiser
09-28-2012, 05:49 AM
I remember when Bo Jackson invented Crossfit...

Chubrock
09-28-2012, 08:08 AM
Constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements.

So basically, we're just creating a word ex post facto and making it include everything under the sun? Fair enough.



I'm now creating METHFIT. It includes Powerlifting, Oly lifting, Triathlons, Duathlons, Biathlons, Skydiving, Crossfit, Equestrian and absolutely anything else in which you move around. Helluva lot cheaper than your local CF box. Just remember, anytime you do absolutely anything now, you're doing METHFIT!

DoUgL@S
09-28-2012, 01:08 PM
Could somebody please define what crossfit is for me? The description always tends to rotate, at least in my opinion.

The closest we are going to get is from HQ. You are right in that each individual's description tends to vary depending on their particular understanding/exposure. Got this from the training guide:


Aims
From the beginning, the aim of CrossFit has been to forge a broad, general,
and inclusive fitness. We sought to build a program that would best prepare
trainees for any physical contingency—prepare them not only for the
unknown but for the unknowable. Looking at all sport and physical tasks
collectively, we asked what physical skills and adaptations would most
universally lend themselves to performance advantage. Capacity culled from
the intersection of all sports demands would quite logically lend itself well to
all sport. In sum, our specialty is not specializing. The second issue (“What
is Fitness?”) of the CrossFit Journal details this perspective.

Prescription
The CrossFit prescription is “constantly varied, high-intensity, functional
movement.” Functional movements are universal motor recruitment
patterns; they are performed in a wave of contraction from core to extremity;
and they are compound movements—i.e., they are multi-joint. They are
natural, effective, and efficient locomotors of body and external objects. But
no aspect of functional movements is more important than their capacity
to move large loads over long distances, and to do so quickly. Collectively,
these three attributes (load, distance, and speed) uniquely qualify functional
movements for the production of high power. Intensity is defined exactly as
power, and intensity is the independent variable most commonly associated
with maximizing favorable adaptation to exercise. Recognizing that the
breadth and depth of a program’s stimulus will determine the breadth
and depth of the adaptation it elicits, our prescription of functionality and
intensity is constantly varied. We believe that preparation for random
physical challenges—i.e., unknown and unknowable events—is at odds with
fixed, predictable, and routine regimens.

Methodology
The methodology that drives CrossFit is entirely
empirical. We believe that meaningful statements about
safety, efficacy, and efficiency, the three most important
and interdependent facets of any fitness program, can be
supported only by measurable, observable, repeatable
facts, i.e., data. We call this approach “evidence-based
fitness”. The CrossFit methodology depends on full
disclosure of methods, results, and criticisms, and we’ve
employed the Internet (and various intranets) to support
these values. Our charter is open source, making
co-developers out of participating coaches, athletes, and
trainers through a spontaneous and collaborative online
community. CrossFit is empirically driven, clinically
tested, and community developed.

Paulo_Santos
09-28-2012, 04:20 PM
So basically, we're just creating a word ex post facto and making it include everything under the sun? Fair enough.



I'm now creating METHFIT. It includes Powerlifting, Oly lifting, Triathlons, Duathlons, Biathlons, Skydiving, Crossfit, Equestrian and absolutely anything else in which you move around. Helluva lot cheaper than your local CF box. Just remember, anytime you do absolutely anything now, you're doing METHFIT!

Gay. Just gay.

Patz
09-29-2012, 09:47 AM
The only thing I have to say about the original post is.. There are zealots and douchebags in every sport, hobby and religion on Earth, then there's the rest of us.



I do Crossfit because it's fun, it's challenging and I get to try new things. It's helped me be the most consistent I've ever been with regard to exercise. My personality finds self-motivated routine and structure a difficult task. Instead of accepting this, I find ways around my flaws. Fitness and health should be among the most important things in our lives, and in that area Crossfit has been worth its weight in gold for me.

ncsuLuke
09-29-2012, 12:13 PM
To help get things back on topic a bit, I would like to mention that I really like crossfit and do it when I can, what I don't like is the people at my box (and others) who think they are so hardcore because they crossfit. Hence the picture in the OP, I see so much of that crap and everyone at my box "liking" it and it is just annoying. I don't go to the gym to have some self inflated view of how hardcore I am and really I would prefer a normal style gym to workout in if they had fun things like bumpers, tons of squat racks, etc

I also hate the crap like murph (which we discussed earlier) doing a workout that is overly hard just for the pure purpose of it being hard is pointless to me. I get really frustrated with the programming at my box that is more that style, I would kill to have a place that did a west side variation

Paulo_Santos
09-29-2012, 12:39 PM
To help get things back on topic a bit, I would like to mention that I really like crossfit and do it when I can, what I don't like is the people at my box (and others) who think they are so hardcore because they crossfit. Hence the picture in the OP, I see so much of that crap and everyone at my box "liking" it and it is just annoying. I don't go to the gym to have some self inflated view of how hardcore I am and really I would prefer a normal style gym to workout in if they had fun things like bumpers, tons of squat racks, etc

I also hate the crap like murph (which we discussed earlier) doing a workout that is overly hard just for the pure purpose of it being hard is pointless to me. I get really frustrated with the programming at my box that is more that style, I would kill to have a place that did a west side variation

I agree with this. There is a fine line between hardcore and just stupid or gay.

Can you do your own thing at your box, or do you have to do their programming? I used to workout at a regular Globo gym where I did my Westside Conjugate programming and then I did the CrossFit workouts at home, at the Globo gym, or at work.

ncsuLuke
09-29-2012, 12:43 PM
I agree with this. There is a fine line between hardcore and just stupid or gay.

Can you do your own thing at your box, or do you have to do their programming? I used to workout at a regular Globo gym where I did my Westside Conjugate programming and then I did the CrossFit workouts at home, at the Globo gym, or at work.

They let me do some stuff on my own but as long as it didn't get in the way. They are growing so fast that gets more difficult since the place gets packed. I am traveling for work right now so I am stuck to the shitty hotel gym anyways. They have enough stuff to get by but I am going to be very happy to go back to a real gym.

cphafner
09-29-2012, 01:36 PM
I agree with this. There is a fine line between hardcore and just stupid or gay.



Which one does this fall under?

http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/BarclayWilliamson_overheadpistol.jpg

Paulo_Santos
09-29-2012, 02:12 PM
Which one does this fall under?

http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/BarclayWilliamson_overheadpistol.jpg

I guess I forgot retarded, because that is what that is.

Chubrock
09-29-2012, 04:26 PM
Gay. Just gay.

If you're not sitting on a guy's dick...then it's really not that gay.

Falcon63
09-29-2012, 05:36 PM
One thing I don't like about CF is the prices...instead of paying $120/month to go to their gym, I can go to my $30/month gym and do the same workouts as CF gyms while still having the benefits of batting cages, a football field, a baseball field, a giant (healthy) snack bar, free towels, free medical care, saunas, rehab pools, etc.

chris mason
09-29-2012, 06:26 PM
The guy is doing a trick. So what?

Actually, try it yourself. I guarantee you can't do it. That is not easy. Better yet, don't try it, you will likely get hurt.

DoUgL@S
10-01-2012, 03:49 PM
The guy is doing a trick. So what?

Actually, try it yourself. I guarantee you can't do it. That is not easy. Better yet, don't try it, you will likely get hurt.

Why would anyone try it. It is along the same lines as the pictures of people doing overhead squats with babies attached to their chests. Not what I would want the newly indoctrinated to see on the front page and then proceed to try and emulate. You know there will be people who try it and fail miserably with potentially severe consequences.

r2473
10-01-2012, 03:51 PM
You know there will be people who try it and fail miserably with potentially severe consequences.

This is what keeps youtube in business.

DoUgL@S
10-01-2012, 03:53 PM
This is what keeps youtube in business.

So true. :)

Travis Bell
10-01-2012, 06:48 PM
I'm going to have to agree, that picture is just ridiculous.

However at this point we are not talking about CF as a whole. Both sides here are just picking and choosing specific things to argue about and it's going to go on forever.

Alex.V
10-01-2012, 07:23 PM
If you're not sitting on a guy's dick...then it's really not that gay.

Even then, it could just be an accident.

Chubrock
10-01-2012, 08:18 PM
Even then, it could just be an accident.

Certainly plausible. It's amazing how sometimes people are just walking around with their pants around their ankles and things just don't go their way.

DoUgL@S
10-02-2012, 10:24 AM
I'm going to have to agree, that picture is just ridiculous.

However at this point we are not talking about CF as a whole. Both sides here are just picking and choosing specific things to argue about and it's going to go on forever.

I agree with you. There are gyms were ridiculousness abounds and those where there is truly great things happening. The only issue I have is that these pictures are on main site. If there were just on an affiliates page you can chalk it up to an affiliate that thinks this is somehow "elite," as opposed to someone at HQ thinking this illustrates crossfit accurately. All I know is that I wouldn't do this even if I could.