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View Full Version : The Utlimate Bulking Diet!!



OiBoy
07-11-2002, 02:42 PM
Can someone recomend me one?

Like specifics etc. so i can go out to the store and buy the stuff!!

I want to bulk like no other...

Drink 1 gallon whole milk a day, ect. TONS of calories!!


Can someone please write up one or tell me one that they have used to bulka nd pack on those pounds???


THANKS!

Maki Riddington
07-11-2002, 07:22 PM
Meal 1

4 cups of oats and apple sauce
2 table spoons of flax oil
2 cups of oj
6 eggs scrambled with cheese

Meal 2

Weight gainer shake

Meal 3

2 tuna sandwhiches
1 garden salad
2 glasses of milk
2 nutir grain bars

Meal 4

Pre workout shake
25 grams dextrose
25 garms whey

Meal 5

Postworkout shake

50 garms whey
100 grams of dextrose
5 grams creatine


Meal 6

6 ounces Steak
2 baked potatoes
steamed veggies


Meal 7

Protein shake
bagle with Pb

Manveet
07-11-2002, 07:28 PM
mmmmmmm 6 eggs smothered with cheese:drooling:

Vido
07-11-2002, 11:25 PM
4 cups of oats???? 12 servings???? You'll definitely be getting "bigger" Oiboy listening to Maki's diet. I don't know how much of it will be muscle though. By my calculations breakfast alone is over 2000 calories. I'm quite certain nobody needs that many calories at one meal and anybody consuming that many would just be asking for stored bodyfat as there is no way to use all of those cals.
I'm sure you could eat worse things than Nutrigrain bars, but they wouldn't be something I'd recommend.
And Maki, can you give some reasoning behind the bagel before bed? IMO that is a terrible choice of carbs (although I seriously would never consider carbs before bed anyways), but I'd like to hear your logic behind it.
On the plus side, I definitely agree with the choice of pre and post-workout meals.
Oiboy you need to give us some stats before we can advise diets. I mean a lot of cals for someone who is 140 lbs is different than a lot of cals for someone is 240 lbs.

Hellrazor
07-12-2002, 03:10 AM
Vido, why wouldnt you eat carbs before bed? They guy asked for the ultimate bulk, pack on the pounds, etc....So whats wrong with eating a bagel before bed ?????

Mystic Eric
07-12-2002, 04:14 AM
4 cups of oats???? 12 servings???? You'll definitely be getting "bigger" Oiboy listening to Maki's diet. I don't know how much of it will be muscle though. By my calculations breakfast alone is over 2000 calories.

****4 cups of cooked oats = 580 cals
2 tblspoons of flax = about 200 cals
2 cups OJ = about 210 cals
6 eggs with cheese = about 500 cals give or take 20

so that total is 1490 cals give or take 20.

I don't see how you got 2000 cals from that. That breakfast is an awesome bulking breakfast.



I'm quite certain nobody needs that many calories at one meal and anybody consuming that many would just be asking for stored bodyfat as there is no way to use all of those cals.

****My meals are about the size of that breakfast calorie wise. I am eating close to 5000 calories a day. I'm not getting very fat so I guess I am using those calories.



And Maki, can you give some reasoning behind the bagel before bed? IMO that is a terrible choice of carbs (although I seriously would never consider carbs before bed anyways), but I'd like to hear your logic behind it.

****Bagels are made of complex carbs.
You keep saying that carbs before bed is bad. What is YOUR reasoning behind this? You say that it will lead to fat gain. Why? Because flex magazine said so? Tell me how the body automatically turns those carbs you eat before bed time into fat. You don't have to produce studies. Just tell me how that happens in the body.

=w=
07-12-2002, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Mystic Eric


****4 cups of cooked oats = 580 cals
2 tblspoons of flax = about 200 cals
2 cups OJ = about 210 cals
6 eggs with cheese = about 500 cals give or take 20

so that total is 1490 cals give or take 20.

I don't see how you got 2000 cals from that.


Actually:

1/2 cup oats dry measure = 150 cals
1tbls flax = 135 cals
2 cups OJ (Dont drink juice so Ill go with your estimate) = 210
6 large eggs = 420
1oz cheese ~ 100 cals

so

4 cups = 1200 cals
2 tbls Flax= 270
2c OJ = 210
6 Eggs w/ cheese ~520

GRAND TOTAL = 2200

Vido
07-12-2002, 08:57 AM
Not that it's a very big deal, but here's how I calculated the calories.

1/3 c dry oats = 114 cals x 12 = 1368 cals (ignore applesauce...and nobody gives measurements of the cooked oats...that is stupid because it depends on how much water is used)
2 Tbsp flax = i'll round DOWN to 200 cals
2 glasses OJ = I don't drink juice so 210 cals sounds fine
6 scrambled eggs with cheese = my eggs are 90 cals each, so ignoring cheese I get 540 cals

1368 cals + 200 cals + 210 cals + 540 cals = 2318 cals (ignoring apple sauce and cheese).
Those probably aren't the number of cals Maki was recommending because I think he is smarter than that. This thread is getting off topic and fast, I just had to show how I calculated that for the benefit of Eric.

Vido
07-12-2002, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Mystic Eric
****My meals are about the size of that breakfast calorie wise. I am eating close to 5000 calories a day. I'm not getting very fat so I guess I am using those calories.


I thought you said you were turning into a fat piece of @#$%. I wonder why. I'm not quite sure how big you are Eric, but I think you are under 160 lbs. There is no way you need to be eating over 30 times your bodyweight in cals to gain muscle. Sure you will get bigger, but it's muscle that counts.




****Bagels are made of complex carbs.
You keep saying that carbs before bed is bad. What is YOUR reasoning behind this? You say that it will lead to fat gain. Why? Because flex magazine said so? Tell me how the body automatically turns those carbs you eat before bed time into fat. You don't have to produce studies. Just tell me how that happens in the body.


I threw the fact that I don't eat carbs before bed in there in brackets as a side note. That was not the main point of my question to Maki. That is another thread altogether. For your benefit Eric, what do the carbs do in your body when you eat them right before bed? Think about it, I'm sure you've been eating carbs all day, so if it has been long enough after a workout your glycogen will already be replaced or will be well on its way to being replaced. You don't need too much energy to sleep. Tell me what it is that YOU think the carbs are going to do in your body when they aren't needed. I'm saying they will be stored as fat. I'd be interested to hear what they will "actually" do.
Anyway, as that had nothing to do with my question to Maki hopefully we can get back on topic. Bagels ARE NOT A GOOD SOURCE of complex carbs. (I suppose you can make a case for whole wheat bagels, but most people don't eat them.) The main ingredient is enriched flour. That's like saying white rice is a good source of complex carbs. I want to know Maki's reasoning behind the bagel, not the carbs themselves. I would think that if one were to have carbs before bed they would do better with something like oatmeal.

Mystic Eric
07-12-2002, 11:25 AM
I thought you said you were turning into a fat piece of @#$%. I wonder why. I'm not quite sure how big you are Eric, but I think you are under 160 lbs. There is no way you need to be eating over 30 times your bodyweight in cals to gain muscle. Sure you will get bigger, but it's muscle that counts.

****Buddy, my fat assness already began before I started my new program and bumped up the cals. To be honest, even though I think I look like a fat ass because I'm not ripped, I'm still very lean. And no, I'm not under 160 and I feel insulted by that. I'm only saying this to defend myself but I can guarentee that ALL of my body parts are better than yours, and we all know that I'm sure a hell of a lot stronger than you. But let's not get into the I'm bigger and stronger therefore I know more' because that's not always the case. You have no clue about the amount of physical activity I do a day. You have no clue about what anyone's needs are so I guess you have no clue how many cals or carbs I need to eat.




For your benefit Eric, what do the carbs do in your body when you eat them right before bed? Think about it, I'm sure you've been eating carbs all day, so if it has been long enough after a workout your glycogen will already be replaced or will be well on its way to being replaced. You don't need too much energy to sleep. Tell me what it is that YOU think the carbs are going to do in your body when they aren't needed. I'm saying they will be stored as fat. I'd be interested to hear what they will "actually" do.


'For your benefit' Vido, as long as your calories and carb count are calculated correctly during the day, your carbs won't automatically turn into fat for some unknown reason. And, 'for your benefit Vido', not only does not eating carbs late at night not have any scientific reasoning, it will actually help keep cortisol down, and help get leptin up. Bet you don't know what that means?

MRJ
07-12-2002, 11:28 AM
Consume more calories than you burn . . . .

Bagels. "complex" carb. ? Umm, not sure I agree with that.

Mystic Eric
07-12-2002, 11:29 AM
And btw, about the cals thing, I was assuming he was talking about cooked oats. So I looked at :

Netzer, Corinne T. The Complete Book of Food Counts 5th Edition. New York: Dell Publishing 2001


So if he was talking about dry oats, I'm wrong, if he's talking about cooked, I'm right. Not a big deal.

Mystic Eric
07-12-2002, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by MRJ
Consume more calories than you burn . . . .

Bagels. "complex" carb. ? Umm, not sure I agree with that.

Whole grain bagles = complex carb

PowerManDL
07-12-2002, 11:41 AM
If its a bulking diet, I fail to see the problem with eating a large breakfast or with eating carbs before bed.

Vido
07-12-2002, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Mystic Eric
I'm only saying this to defend myself but I can guarentee that ALL of my body parts are better than yours


LMAO at your guarantee :D


'For your benefit' Vido, as long as your calories and carb count are calculated correctly during the day, your carbs won't automatically turn into fat for some unknown reason. And, 'for your benefit Vido', not only does not eating carbs late at night not have any scientific reasoning, it will actually help keep cortisol down, and help get leptin up. Bet you don't know what that means?

Eating carbs keeps cortisol down and gets leptin up. True. No argument. But do you really think that if you eat them throughout the day and then cut them off a few hours before bed that all of a sudden your cortisol levels are just going to shoot through the roof and your leptin will drop big-style? I don't see either of those as benefits of eating late-night carbs because I'm not saying to eliminate carbs altogether, but only for the last few hours of the day. The carbs you eat throughout the day will keep cortisol down and leptin up, even if you don't eat them at night. Everybody on this board knows I have no scientific data about late-night carbs. We've been over this on other threads. I have only seen the changes in myself and my friends as we have all gone through periods of eliminating late-night carbs. I'm not here to impress anyone, only to say what I have experienced. Eric, if you have not had the same experience then that strategy did not work for you. No big deal. I'm just saying that I have never heard of anyone who hasn't seen visible results from cutting carbs at night.

Vido
07-12-2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL
If its a bulking diet, I fail to see the problem with eating a large breakfast or with eating carbs before bed.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that FAR TOO MANY people on this board do not understand what a bulking diet is. Yes, the idea is to gain weight. True. But the weight should be in the form of.........drum roll please....MUSCLE :eek:. I am fully aware that in the process of gaining mass one might add some unwanted bodyfat. But that doesn't mean that a bulk is a one-way ticket to your nearest McDonald's or Burger King. A lb of muscle contains 500 cals. So you need to eat about 75 cals over maintenance every day per week to account for those extra cals to gain a lb of muscle. Yes you heard me, 75 cals :eek:. You don't need to be eating 5000 calories per day, unless your maintenance is close to that. Play it safe and eat, hmmmm, I don't know, let's say 200 cals over maintenance every day in order to gain mass. This is what is known as a "clean" bulk, a term which I'm sure is very unfamiliar to many of you on this board.

Maki Riddington
07-12-2002, 06:08 PM
Vido, you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
That being said, there is no problem with the diet I typed out. It's a bulking diet that can be changed accordingly to their bodyweight. Note, that he gave no stats and if he did it would have been specific.
It was a general post to give an idea of wehat can be used to bulk.
Some bulk slow while others like to pile on the mass. There are different schools of thought.

Vido
07-12-2002, 06:13 PM
Maki, can you answer my original question about the bagel before bed? The diet was reasonable, I never said otherwise, but I don't think anyone (other than maybe if you're getting upwards of 225 lbs of fairly lean mass) needs that many cals for breakfast.

chromium6
07-12-2002, 06:17 PM
MEAL 1

1Cups Quaker Oats or a Bowl of Fiber one (OR BOTH)
5 Egg whites 1 yolk ( For Flavor)
4 Strips turkey Bacon
32 oz Water

Meal 2

Bagel with all Natural Peanut Butter
Peice of Fruit
32 oz Water

Meal 3

Grilled Chicken Breast
Cup Brown Rice
Carrots
32 oz Water

Meal 4
2 Round eye Steaks
Sweet potato
1 cup Broccoli
32 oz Water

Meal 5( POST WORK OUT)
Protein Shake
Protein Snack

Meal 6
Broiled Fish
Mixed Vegtables
Baked Potato
32 oz Water

Meal 7 or late night Snack
Protein Shake

Right before bed
I eat a cup of Cottage Cheese!

If you ever heard of those NIGHT TIME PROTEINS there a crock pf ****. You get the same thing from the Cottage chesse right befor bed.

This is just a sample. I have used it but of course the meals all varied. But it helped me Bulk up on solid MASS.

chromium6
07-12-2002, 06:20 PM
Ohh man I had a lot of spelling mistakes.

OiBoy
07-12-2002, 06:41 PM
Thanks Maki for posting that...

I am 17 years old and I weigh 115lbs.


I have a really fast metabolism, and even if I eat 25 cals per pound of body (2873 calories) weight I still dont gain :(

Will I gain weight with your diet?

OiBoy
07-12-2002, 06:48 PM
One more question...

You said "four cups of cooked oats". Where can I buy oats??

I have Quakor Oats Otmeal (comes in that cylinder tube)

Is that what you mean?


Thanks Maki!!

NateDogg
07-12-2002, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by OiBoy
One more question...

You said "four cups of cooked oats". Where can I buy oats??

I have Quakor Oats Otmeal (comes in that cylinder tube)

Is that what you mean?


Thanks Maki!!

Yes, that is what he means.

g-dot
07-12-2002, 07:15 PM
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that FAR TOO MANY people on this board do not understand what a bulking diet is. Yes, the idea is to gain weight. True. But the weight should be in the form....drum roll please....MUSCLE . I am fully aware that in the process of gaining mass one might add some unwanted bodyfat. But that doesn't mean that a bulk is a one-way ticket to your nearest McDonald's or Burger King. A lb of muscle contains 500 cals. So you need to eat about 75 cals over maintenance every day per week to account for those extra cals to gain a lb of muscle. Yes you heard me, 75 cals. You don't need to be eating 5000 calories per day, unless your maintenance is close to that. Play it safe and eat, hmmmm, I don't know, let's say 200 cals over maintenance every day in order to gain mass. This is what is known as a "clean" bulk, a term which I'm sure is very unfamiliar to many of you on this board.

Amen to that Vido, AMEN TO THAT. I read far too many posts with people who are talking about cutting from 15-20% bodyfat that they got from bulking. When I bulk it's always fairly clean, both in cals and in food. Bulking has become an excuse to go stuff your face with **** from fast food places and down french fries, etc.

Also to add my 2 cents to this conversation a bagel would be a bad idea at night before bed because it's a high GI food and would raise your insulin levels possibly contributing to fat storage overnight (depending on your diet throughout the day) which is why I disagree with a bagel w/ peanut butter before bed (high GI carbs + fats). Whatever though I'm not here to tear into anyone and Maki's diet is fine for adding weight on the scale and since the original poster didn't specify and stats thats fair. The only other comment I'll add is that the guy is 115, I'll have to agree with Vido that he should "bulk" cleanly here because at that weight there's absolutely no need to eat 5000 cals a day. I have never ate 5000 cals a day in a diet and ive put on plenty of weight since I was 17.

Clark
07-12-2002, 08:36 PM
Posted by Mystic Eric "but I can guarentee that ALL of my body parts are better than yours, and we all know that I'm sure a hell of a lot stronger than you."

I'd like to know how you can be so sure of that, and how you can be so sure you're a hell of a lot stronger.

Behemoth
07-12-2002, 09:58 PM
<quote> Also to add my 2 cents to this conversation a bagel would be a bad idea at night before bed because it's a high GI food and would raise your insulin levels possibly contributing to fat storage overnight (depending on your diet throughout the day) which is why I disagree with a bagel w/ peanut butter before bed (high GI carbs + fats). Whatever though I'm not here to tear into anyone and Maki's diet is fine for adding weight on the scale and since the original poster didn't specify and stats thats fair. The only other comment I'll add is that the guy is 115, I'll have to agree with Vido that he should "bulk" cleanly here because at that weight there's absolutely no need to eat 5000 cals a day. I have never ate 5000 cals a day in a diet and ive put on plenty of weight since I was 17.
</quote>

I agree no high GI foods before bed, but there's nothing wrong with quality fats, there a good choice and slowly digested. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but bulking cleanly has nothing to do with how many cals you eat (as you seems to imply), but HOW you eat.

Mystic Eric
07-12-2002, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Clark
Posted by Mystic Eric "but I can guarentee that ALL of my body parts are better than yours, and we all know that I'm sure a hell of a lot stronger than you."

I'd like to know how you can be so sure of that, and how you can be so sure you're a hell of a lot stronger.

Well since Vido is an aquaintance of my friend Jeremy, (I have never talked to Vido in person) and being that we live close together, why not have all of us meet up and train. We'll do lift competitions. Who ever can lift the most LEGALLY in say bench press, deadlift, squat, barbell curl whatever between Vido and I can win money. Each exercise can be worth 25$. If you beat me on one exercise, I'll pay you 25$, if I beat you on one, you pay me 25$. Shall we do this gentlemen? Keep in mind that I weigh less than Vido, but I'll still outlift the hell out of him. The same thing goes with the body parts. Although I'm reluctant to show a bunch of guys my body part, and it will be subjective... but nonetheless, we can work something out.

ElPietro
07-13-2002, 07:28 AM
Just to address the pre-bed meal, if it's a whole grain bagel GI will be much lower and even then, GI is is only a guideline, insulin response is primarily based on your own personal resistance. If you are bulking and getting carbs regularly throughout the day I doubt your body is going to go through insulin spikes everytime you consume a high GI meal, or even moderately high. Carbs and fat are what are best for you to insure no muscle catabolism throughout the night as well as excellent for growth.

If you guys actually paid attention to some of the results Maki attains in such short periods of time with diet manipulation you'd realize how effective some of his eating habits are.

Clean bulks are fine but some people rather do things more rapidly as they know they can drop the added bodyfat just as quickly. I'm not one of those kinds of people but many others are, so to say a fast or "unclean" bulk isn't that good isn't necessarily true.

Maki Riddington
07-13-2002, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Vido
Maki, can you answer my original question about the bagel before bed? The diet was reasonable, I never said otherwise, but I don't think anyone (other than maybe if you're getting upwards of 225 lbs of fairly lean mass) needs that many cals for breakfast.

*** Vido, even though I have countered every point you've brought up you still attempt to pick away at my posts. This is fine, since you lack a lot of knowledge and experience.
That being said, the bagel before bed was just a way for him to get some carbs in his system. It's not rocket science.
As for the breakfast I was talking about cooked oats.
Read my post again, it's a general diet, he didn't give his stats at that time.

Vido
07-13-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington


*** Vido, even though I have countered every point you've brought up you still attempt to pick away at my posts. This is fine, since you lack a lot of knowledge and experience.
That being said, the bagel before bed was just a way for him to get some carbs in his system. It's not rocket science.
As for the breakfast I was talking about cooked oats.
Read my post again, it's a general diet, he didn't give his stats at that time.

Maki you've countered nothing and in reality, there's not really anything for you to counter. I never said the diet was bad. I pointed out some parts of it that I didn't agree with and some that I did. I'm not quite sure why you're getting so worked up. I simply ask you why you recommend a bagel as opposed to oatmeal and you lose it. To top it off, you didn't even answer the question in any way that is useful to me or anyone on the board. I mean, thanks Maki, I didn't know that bagels contained carbs :rolleyes: . I was saying (as were other throughout this thread) that a bagel is a poor choice of carbs before bed. The way you make it sound, why doesn't he just have a bag of chips before bed instead (because that would put some carbs in his system and that is apparently the only purpose for the bagel). Again, you ignored the question and attempted to insult me in the process. If I'm the one lacking knowledge, why have I still not received a respectable answer to my simple question?

As a side note to Eric (who enjoys getting these threads completely off topic) I never said you weren't stronger than me. You are actually arguing with Clark, not me, so do not get me involved. I have no interest in lifting for money as I have never claimed to be strong, probably never will, and would almost definitely lose.

Maki Riddington
07-13-2002, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Vido


Maki you've countered nothing and in reality, there's not really anything for you to counter. I never said the diet was bad. I pointed out some parts of it that I didn't agree with and some that I did.

*** Either I'm seeing things on my computer screen or you need to invest in some material for the blind. If you really need to see how many posts you've come across trying to disprove me we can dig them up.

I'm not quite sure why you're getting so worked up. I simply ask you why you recommend a bagel as opposed to oatmeal and you lose it.

*** Vido, obviously your new so I'll keep that in mind. Reason being is that I'm the last one to lose my cool. I think most of the vets on this board can vouch for me. If I did lose my cool you wouldn't be posting here anymore. Is that clear? Good.

To top it off, you didn't even answer the question in any way that is useful to me or anyone on the board.

*** My goal is not to teach to you like school teacher. I answered a very general question and gave an outline of just one way you can bulk up. If I were ever to make a diet up for someone I would need far more info then what he gave. Therefore my answer is good enough.

I mean, thanks Maki, I didn't know that bagels contained carbs :rolleyes: . I was saying (as were other throughout this thread) that a bagel is a poor choice of carbs before bed.

*** Actually I said "complex."

OiBoy
07-13-2002, 07:28 PM
Vido - Maki gave me an excellent diet, that I have started to use, and he was really helpful.

He knows a heck of alot more than you and he actually helps people instead of trying to start things like you. Just stop posting, becuase its really obvious that you have no clue what your talking about.

Mystic Eric
07-13-2002, 07:48 PM
Ummm well oiboy... you should probably drop that calories though. At 117 pounds, you don't need that many cals yet. Just start out slowly.

Vido
07-13-2002, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by OiBoy
Vido - Maki gave me an excellent diet, that I have started to use, and he was really helpful.

He knows a heck of alot more than you and he actually helps people instead of trying to start things like you. Just stop posting, becuase its really obvious that you have no clue what your talking about.

Oiboy, at 115 lbs I'd worry more about putting on some muscle than spending time being an internet hot shot.
I'd like you to point out one thing I've said that demonstrates my "lack of knowledge". Just because I don't agree with Maki on everything he says like the grand majority of people on this site, does not mean I have no clue what I'm talking about. I know most people on this site would disagree, but Maki is not the God of Bodybuilding. He is knowledgeable, but there are always people that know things you don't. If you used your brain instead of just automatically agreeing with everything that comes out of Maki's mouth, you might be more successful.

g-dot
07-13-2002, 09:16 PM
Oiboy, at 115 lbs I'd worry more about putting on some muscle than spending time being an internet hot shot.

Hah.

Maki Riddington
07-13-2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Vido


Maki is God of Bodybuilding. He is knowledgeable.

*** :cool:

CollegeBoy
07-15-2002, 11:40 AM
:whiner: