Cycling thermogenics....?

[raniali]

We all know (or should know) that cycling thermogenics is necessary to maintain potency in your system. However, what is the best, or preferred, way to cycle these:

*4 weeks on/2 off
*4 days on/ 2 off
*every other day
*3x/week - vs - every day
*taking the entire bottle according to directions and then save up for next bottle
*other???
*or some version of the above?

Additionally - is cycling just as important for non-ephedra based thermos? If you cycle, is there need to gradually assess tolerance each time as well?

What have y'all done and with what results?
thx

[Paul Stagg]

I use ECA every day for the duration of a diet or until I don't feel I need it any more, usually no more than 8 weeks.

[raniali]

This is surprising ... only two people here use thermogenics??

[Paul Stagg]

Actually, my post shoudl say 'used to'.

I no longer use thermos.

[raniali]

*sigh* I guess I am alone in my little world.

[WannaBeStrong]

Don't cycle them. ECA doesn't lose effectiveness over time. You just won't "feel" it as well. The caffeine will still increase free fatty acids and the ephedra will still increase your metabolism.

If you need a study I will dig it up, but I'd take my word for it.

[Shamik]

I take the non-ephedra Ripped Fuel, but I don't cycle it. I think I may have taken a complete week off of it over an 8-month period, and it seems to still be working.

[bigassdan]

everything I've read suggests that just like any other type of drug, even though its the herbal equivalent, it loses its effectiveness. I stayed on them for a year, when I finally stopped taking them I felt awful. I'd grown dependent on there energy. Unless you'd to stay on them for life I'd recommend cycling them for no more than 12 weeks on and at least 4 weeks off.

[Goin_Big]

I like to take some time off every now and then. I'm kinda in Paul's shoes though, i dont' plan on taking them much longer.

1-2 months max.

[Flyersfan]

I believe cycling it would help you come down from the caffeine high.
I'm doing a 4 week on, 2 week off cycle. I had serious headaches the first few days off... I can't imagine how lousy I would've felt if I was on it longer.

We'll see what the next cycle provides.

[raniali]

I am glad to know that people are cycling (for the most part)...but interested to find out how effective cycling within the week is versus cycling every x# of weeks.
Any opinions?

[Relentless]

It would depend on the half-life of ephedra and caffiene, I guess . . .

Dunno 'bout efficacy one way or the other, all I can speak to is my own experience... I went on for 6 weeks and lost about 15 lbs. Went off for a month, then stabilized. Went on again and I'm down another 6, gonna stay on till I drop down another 7-10ish... I seem to have a pretty balanced metabolism; all else being equal, if I take ephedra & caffiene, I'll shed bodyfat. When I went off it, I stayed about the same.

[ElPietro]

Bah nothing seems to work for me! :mad:

[Relentless]

Maybe you need a system shock or something, ElP -- do some hard cutting, being prepared to lose muscle mass and strength in return for leaning down to 12-15%, then build back up from there?

Given your bodymass, maybe you just aren't taking ENOUGH of the stuff, too . . . I have been finding much better results with about 2x the amount I used the first cycle I did... I guess it's a balancing act; don't want to megadose caff & eph, coz it's bad for yer heart and BP to have TOO much...

[ElPietro]

So what dose are you taking and how often?

Currently I'm 12.5mg/200mg E/C with gugglebolobic but we'll just not worry about that. I don't take it regularly either. My diet is my issue. I'm more or less failing at dieting due to my own lack of discipline.

Just curious what your dosing is.

[ElPietro]

Bump for the 2nd best football player weighing over 200lbs last saturday. ;)

[raniali]

Originally posted by ElPietro
Bump for the 2nd best football player weighing over 200lbs last saturday. ;)

Congrats to the 2nd best, unless he dropped from being the 1st.
But what does this have to do with this thread?



...am still waiting for more opinions on cycling thermos, btw...

[PowerManDL]

Hey raniali,

What's up bro? I hear that you should cycle thermogenics based on their effectiveness; some people can go several weeks "on" before they burn out. Even so, I'd think that 1-3 days per week would be enough.

:cool::cool:

[PowerManDL]

bump

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by raniali


Congrats to the 2nd best, unless he dropped from being the 1st.
But what does this have to do with this thread?



...am still waiting for more opinions on cycling thermos, btw...

I asked Callahan what dose he was using on his ECA stack as he had said maybe I needed to increase mine. So I bumped it so he might see this.

Raniali I don't think there is any magic number on how long you should cycle for. I'm not entirely convinced that you do lose the potency, only perhaps you are losing the perceived potency...as you don't feel the quick energy boost that you get when first starting on them. People get caffeine from many sources without having to use supplements, so it's not like it is generally ever out of your system.

Sorry if I don't have a better answer for you than that.

[Relentless]

best or 2nd best is a matter of opinion . . . and largely irrelevant. Fun was had. Football was played. Good enough for me. Come out again when I'm not quite so tired and you may have a radically different experience. :)

Raniali: I think it's a good idea to ephedrine and caffiene supps daily while you're on them, and not at all when you're off, much as Paul described. Why? I don't think that pumping these substances into your body on an ongoing basis is a good idea. It's fine to use them to 'turbocharge' your diet as you lean up, but going on them longterm is less than wise, IMHO. I have read studies showing the effects of longterm caffiene usage, sometimes leading to pancreatic problems even. I say go on 'em for a month or two, hit them hard and then cut them out entirely.

ElP: Currently, I've found I'm responding well to a regimen of 16mg of ephedra + 200mg of caffiene thrice daily. I was taking it 4x a day but found it too hard to get to sleep, so now I take it on waking, just before workout, and around suppertime....

As mentioned, this helped me drop 10lbs last time and I'm already back down to my prevacation weight on this cycle... I'll stay on 'em till sometime in august, with control of diet that ought to mean I'm down to ~208. Then I'll change up my diet again and cut out the caff/eph while increasing protein and overall caloric intake. If I'm to hit my strength and size goals for November, I'll need to be bulking throughout the fall. :)

Next summer I think I will try something a little more drastic, perhaps doing one of these ketosis thingies or some other kind of radical lean-up plan. Until then I'll basically eat the way Belial and B&I have described it elsethread: eat clean, eat a lot and don't sweat the small stuff. :)

[ElPietro]

Heh, was just trying to get under yer skin with some trash talk. ;)

Ok 16mg vs. 12.5 I don't think would make a large difference, and is logistically impossible for me anyway...as the tabs I get are 25mg and basically have a nice line down the middle to make it easy to split em in half.

Generally if I remember, I'll take two xenadrine when I leave the apt in the morning, and hopefully remember to take my EC stack while i'm at work a couple more times. But I am not consistent so it's hard to tell if this stuff helps at all. Generally I've only used xenadrine to enhance my workouts with the energy boost. I'll probably try and keep things a bit more controlled in the near future.

[Relentless]

I think the issue is frequency, ElP. If you want to get the full benefit of the EC, you need to have it in you for as much of the day as possible. What you take in the morning will wear off for the most part, after a couple hours... you need to keep taking it to maintain a higher metabolic rate throughout the day.

[raniali]

Originally posted by PowerManDL
Hey raniali,

What's up bro?

What's up BRO ???? There is a first time for everything, I guess ... but I would like to postpone any reference to me as a BRO till at least after my death.


EP - I also don't think there is a magic formula for thermos - but am greatly interested in cause-and-effect of changing dieting variables. I removed caffeine from my diet about 2 yrs ago, am very sensitive to ephedra and have tried other 'fatloss' products (such as OTC thyroid enhancers) in lieu of traditional thermos. There was SOME positive results - but not enough for the amount of money I was spending. I recently decided to take the re-plunge and return to thermos, sucking up the fact they have caffeine. Currently taking Xenadrine EFX - 3x/week (2x/day) on empty stomach. Superficially, I would say it doesn't DO anything because I don't FEEL its effects, perse (which makes me HAPPY since I was leery of the caffeine). HOWEVER....I am a scientist with an empirical mind and I monitor my morning temp just because I like to chart physiological effects. My temp is ALWAYS noticeably higher after ingesting Xen-EFX than without. Always. After reading that many others don't cycle but every few months, I decided that next week I will begin Xen at least 6x week (possibly stopping it the day I refeed). I will let y'all know if I draw any exciting conclusions from my next 'experiment.'

[ElPietro]

Raniali if you are wary of caffeine why not just build your own metabolism booster like myself and many others here? You could just buy ephedrine tabs. Or add in some thyroid enhancers or other smaller things like cayenne pepper etc?

If you are comfortable with caffeine I think you have alternatives to having to buy one of the mainstream marketed products such as xenadrine. It also generally works out to be cheaper and you have greater control. Just a suggestion.

[raniali]

Originally posted by ElPietro
Raniali if you are wary of caffeine why not just build your own metabolism booster like myself and many others here? You could just buy ephedrine tabs. Or add in some thyroid enhancers or other smaller things like cayenne pepper etc?

If you are comfortable with caffeine I think you have alternatives to having to buy one of the mainstream marketed products such as xenadrine. It also generally works out to be cheaper and you have greater control. Just a suggestion.

That's a great idea - but I don't do ephedra and I didn't do caffeine (and still would choose not to). As to cayenne pepper...I'm a wimp. Black pepper many times is too much for my tastebuds.

[ElPietro]

Ok, wasn't sure what you are using...but you could probably buy the components on their own, just not sure what you prefer.

Cayenne pepper comes in tablet form. Haha I could picture someone sweating all day drinking down glass upon glass of water from eating cayenne pepper every couple hours! :D

[PowerManDL]

Hey El Pietro,

What's up bro? Do you think that a fat burner can be as effective without ephedrine?

:cool::cool: