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View Full Version : MSG and Free Glutamates



Jonathan E
02-18-2013, 11:35 PM
Was watching a documentary on diet. They shared how MSG and Free Glutamates stimulate the brain to store more fat. They also stated that around 80% of processed food contains these and are hidden under certain names..one of them being 'Whey Protein Concentrate' among others like Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Maltodextrin,etc.

How much is true?

Also, general discussion about MSG and how certain biochemical processes relate to it, especially processed food. Other food ingredients that have some unwanted effects (such as aspartame) can be discussed too. I want to learn more about such an unknown topic in todays world.

Holto
02-19-2013, 03:40 PM
I was particularly interested in the labeling as other substances and looked it up for Canada and found it to be absolutely true.

There is a lot known about these toxic substances in alternative health. The problem is that alternative health has trouble establishing itself as credible because it's based on a lot of lore that just isn't true.

There are two things that make me feel absolutely gross whether I know I'm eating it or not (ie; not placebo). One is MSG and one is aspartame.

Jonathan E
02-20-2013, 12:18 AM
I was particularly interested in the labeling as other substances and looked it up for Canada and found it to be absolutely true.

There is a lot known about these toxic substances in alternative health. The problem is that alternative health has trouble establishing itself as credible because it's based on a lot of lore that just isn't true.

There are two things that make me feel absolutely gross whether I know I'm eating it or not (ie; not placebo). One is MSG and one is aspartame.

I think what confuses me the most is how "Whey,Soy, whatever protein" is thrown under this label. I was always under the simple understanding these sources are completely healthy...yet they are associated with substances that promote fat retention. Makes no sense to me currently.

Holto
02-20-2013, 07:40 PM
I think what confuses me the most is how "Whey,Soy, whatever protein" is thrown under this label. I was always under the simple understanding these sources are completely healthy...yet they are associated with substances that promote fat retention. Makes no sense to me currently.

Lobbyists at work. Yay capitalism!

It comes down to trusting your brands. Many brands would never exploit this kind of legal loophole.

joey54
02-20-2013, 07:44 PM
Watched that documentary on Netflix huh? I just watched it with the lady last night. Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead was pretty good too.

Alex.V
02-20-2013, 09:04 PM
Oh dear god no. I am so sick of hearing bullshit about aspartame. It's FINE. It's fucking FINE. Dear god. Let it go. Go pick on mercury in vaccines or some shit if you want more conspiracy theories.

The effects of MSG and aspartame are NOT unknown. They are very known. They do NOTHING negative. Zip. Zilch. Nada. They don't run conclusive studies on them anymore because there is NO reason to suggest they DO have any negative effects. No drug company, academic scientist, or first year frickin PhD is going to waste time or money doing the scientific equivalent of proving that monsters don't live under your bed. There is nothing toxic about these compounds or any of their metabolites, there is no reason to SUGGEST they are toxic. There is no empirical evidence proving toxicity. In other words, LET IT GO.

Conspiracy theorists prey on the uneducated, this is why these things just don't go away.

Alex.V
02-20-2013, 09:08 PM
I think what confuses me the most is how "Whey,Soy, whatever protein" is thrown under this label. I was always under the simple understanding these sources are completely healthy...yet they are associated with substances that promote fat retention. Makes no sense to me currently.

Hype and bullshit.

MSG is a type of glutamic acid (simply has sodium added to it). Glutamic acid is a god damn amino acid, so of COURSE it's in protein.

I swear to god, people who put these documentaries together should be beaten to death. With really small sticks. So it lasts longer.

Alex.V
02-20-2013, 09:09 PM
....Reading those last two replies, I think I need to go back on my meds.

Jonathan E
02-21-2013, 12:18 AM
Oh dear god no.... Dear god.... Let it go... Go pick on mercury in vaccines or some shit if you want more conspiracy theories.

LET IT GO.

Conspiracy theorists prey on the uneducated, this is why these things just don't go away.

http://arch.413chan.net/feelsbadman-(n1305563518441).jpg

Lol just kidding. So is MSG truly nothing to worry about?

Jonathan E
02-21-2013, 12:20 AM
Watched that documentary on Netflix huh? I just watched it with the lady last night. Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead was pretty good too.

Yep ! It's called 'Hungry for Change'. Despite some wacky claims, which i'm much more aware of now, it has a good moral and is fun to watch. Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead guy is in there too haha. That was also a pretty good flick.

joey54
02-21-2013, 04:36 AM
I kept saying during the hungry for change movie to my gf a bunch of it was "liberal bullshit". They did make some good basic points about people setting themselves up for failure and the such. Fat, sick, and nearly dead was inspiring to see those two gents make some great changes to their lives.

Invain
02-21-2013, 06:50 AM
Aspartame is literally one of the most researched compounds on the planet, and there has never been any conclusive evidence of health risks associated with it. If you're still skeptical about it, you may have some intellectual issues...

Alex.V
02-21-2013, 07:38 AM
Lol just kidding. So is MSG truly nothing to worry about?

lol. Sorry mate, that wasn't really directly harshly at anybody here. Uneducated in the field of nutrition science and/or biochemistry doesn't mean uneducated in general- it's just galling when people with a bit of a background in it (enough to sound like a great authority) use the fact that their AUDIENCE doesn't know all the facts as a way to convince them that these facts don't exist. And that's no slam either- I think we all know how absurdly difficult it is to actually access real papers online- all you get is the crappy pubmed abstract; reading full text either means you need some sort of company or instiutional access, or need to pay out the ass for a single text.

No, it's really nothing to worry about. No toxicity until super high doses are reached, no unusual effects on the metabolism have been observed in any reputable study (except for a single one in rural China where there was some ridiculously low increase in BMI for one study arm that was given MSG compared to control).

All that neurotransmission/diabetes bullshit is ridiculous- the ONE study in question had NEONATAL rats injected with MSG- glutamate IS a neurotransmitter, and injecting a large amount of pure GLUTAMATE neonatally would be expected to screw up fetal development. This doesn't mean we should all avoid protein because it's dangerous to our nervous system.

I mean, seriously, going from directly injecting a compound into a developing fetus to orally administering a compound in a mature adult? And drawing lnks from one to the other? The paper's authors certainly didn't even suggest MSG was dangerous- the only logical next step would be to see if maternal consumption raised fetal blood levels of MSG (unlikely, since the sodium ion is pretty easily dissociated from the glutamate molecule in a low pH environment, like...say...the stomach)

Anyway...

Jonathan E
02-21-2013, 06:48 PM
Aspartame is literally one of the most researched compounds on the planet, and there has never been any conclusive evidence of health risks associated with it. If you're still skeptical about it, you may have some intellectual issues...

Was never skeptical about it really, nor am I still skeptical. Once I saw the movie I thought I'd start a thread to get a clear understanding of everything since they were saying "How bad it is".

Plus, I wanted a general discussion about MSG/Free Glutamates and the confusion I had behind that.

Jonathan E
02-21-2013, 06:53 PM
lol. Sorry mate, that wasn't really directly harshly at anybody here. Uneducated in the field of nutrition science and/or biochemistry doesn't mean uneducated in general- it's just galling when people with a bit of a background in it (enough to sound like a great authority) use the fact that their AUDIENCE doesn't know all the facts as a way to convince them that these facts don't exist. And that's no slam either- I think we all know how absurdly difficult it is to actually access real papers online- all you get is the crappy pubmed abstract; reading full text either means you need some sort of company or instiutional access, or need to pay out the ass for a single text.

No, it's really nothing to worry about. No toxicity until super high doses are reached, no unusual effects on the metabolism have been observed in any reputable study (except for a single one in rural China where there was some ridiculously low increase in BMI for one study arm that was given MSG compared to control).

All that neurotransmission/diabetes bullshit is ridiculous- the ONE study in question had NEONATAL rats injected with MSG- glutamate IS a neurotransmitter, and injecting a large amount of pure GLUTAMATE neonatally would be expected to screw up fetal development. This doesn't mean we should all avoid protein because it's dangerous to our nervous system.

I mean, seriously, going from directly injecting a compound into a developing fetus to orally administering a compound in a mature adult? And drawing lnks from one to the other? The paper's authors certainly didn't even suggest MSG was dangerous- the only logical next step would be to see if maternal consumption raised fetal blood levels of MSG (unlikely, since the sodium ion is pretty easily dissociated from the glutamate molecule in a low pH environment, like...say...the stomach)

Anyway...

Haha I know man, I was just poking some fun. Thank you for that information. The reason why I started this was so I can get access to this knowledge, which like you said, is full of wacky shit online for lack of better terms, and I knew some people on here have some good things to say.

Jonathan E
02-21-2013, 06:54 PM
I kept saying during the hungry for change movie to my gf a bunch of it was "liberal bullshit". They did make some good basic points about people setting themselves up for failure and the such. Fat, sick, and nearly dead was inspiring to see those two gents make some great changes to their lives.

Haha she probably wants a juicer now, right? Even though I must admit I'd like to get one to make some homemade juices/shakes.

Behemoth
02-22-2013, 06:27 AM
Watched that documentary on Netflix huh? I just watched it with the lady last night. Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead was pretty good too.

Ugh. I just watched that a few days ago as well and despised it. It was pretty ridiculous when just a few weeks into his fruit/vegetable juice diet he went around the country interrogating people on their eating habits with a deamenor of superiority because he drank rabbit food for three weeks and lost weight.

joey54
02-22-2013, 10:29 AM
Ugh. I just watched that a few days ago as well and despised it. It was pretty ridiculous when just a few weeks into his fruit/vegetable juice diet he went around the country interrogating people on their eating habits with a deamenor of superiority because he drank rabbit food for three weeks and lost weight.

Yeah, I agree it was a bit much in that regard. I do enjoy watching people make changes for the better though, and it seemed like both guys in that movie did. Certainly is not the only way to go about it.

Alex.V
02-23-2013, 09:58 AM
Was never skeptical about it really, nor am I still skeptical. Once I saw the movie I thought I'd start a thread to get a clear understanding of everything since they were saying "How bad it is".

Plus, I wanted a general discussion about MSG/Free Glutamates and the confusion I had behind that.

I don't think he was referring to you specifically, mate. Aspartame being "bad" is one of those hot button topics that tends to inspire instant disgust, though. :) I think I'm just surprised that it's even still being brought up by these sorts of documentaries- it's been so thoroughly and completely debunked, and yet these filmmakers STILL harp on about it!

Jonathan E
02-23-2013, 02:31 PM
I don't think he was referring to you specifically, mate. Aspartame being "bad" is one of those hot button topics that tends to inspire instant disgust, though. :) I think I'm just surprised that it's even still being brought up by these sorts of documentaries- it's been so thoroughly and completely debunked, and yet these filmmakers STILL harp on about it!

Yeah I can understand that.