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View Full Version : Is anyone else here scared of the low quality of US beef?



Juan
07-19-2002, 05:52 PM
The US has extremely low beef standards compared to the rest of the world, and it scares me. We very rarely test our meat for contaminants. The USDA and FDA lack the authority to require the testing of meat, and also lack the power to recall meat. They can suggest a recall to the meat producers, but it is only a suggestion. If an unsafe toy is killing kids, the government can recall it. If unsafe meat is killing kids, the government CAN NOT recall it. I don't know about you, but I intuitively believe that there should be higher safety standards for what goes into your body, than what stays outside of your body.

ConAgra, one of the 2 major beef packing companies in the US, just finally recalled 19 million pounds of ground beef. They had been sending out bad beef (E. Coli) for 3 months before they recalled it. They initially only recalled 354,000 pounds, claiming that it was the only contaminated meat. Then, even after the recall, people kept getting sick, so they expanded the recall.

Did they find out the beef was contaminated through lab tests? NO. People had to become deathly sick with E. Coli before a recall occured. I don't know how much safer chicken is, but I'm going to be sticking to it for a while.

I'm done ranting.

Alex.V
07-19-2002, 05:55 PM
No. And I've gotten E. coli. It's not gonna change. Just cook your damn beef.

Behemoth
07-19-2002, 09:08 PM
I'm scared of undercooked beef, just as I am chicken or eggs.

Blood&Iron
07-19-2002, 11:37 PM
I think all the beef in the US is infected with Mad Cow Disease, and half the populace is infected with Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease(the human variant of Mad Cow). It would go a long way to expaining things if half the population has little corkscrews eating out their brains. I'm still trying to figure out what explains the other 50%.

E. coli I could give a sh*t about.

Goin_Big
07-19-2002, 11:42 PM
I know people that eat the **** raw, they've never had a problem.

on second thought.....they are all a lil strange....

either way, beef is good, eat your beef!

Scooby-Doo
07-19-2002, 11:50 PM
If you cook it enough you wont have to worry.

Blood&Iron
07-20-2002, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Scooby-Doo
If you cook it enough you wont have to worry.
Except no amount of cooking kills Mad Cow disease. Nor does irradiation. Or anything for that matter. It is not a virus. Nor is it a bacterium. It is a prion, about which scientists know basically f*ck all.

Goin_Big
07-20-2002, 12:12 AM
WHO YOU CALLIN A PRION, YOU F'IN PRION?

What's a prion?

Juan
07-20-2002, 03:59 AM
So, a few of you are taking the argument "I've never gotten E. Coli, so I'm not worried about it". I've never gotten herpes, syphalis, or any STD, but I still worry about them! All it takes is coming into contact with tainted beef once, and you can die.

When I cook my own meat, it is cooked all the way through. A large percentage of the population likes rare and medium rare beef. Both conditions allow E. Coli to live. Testing beef for E. Coli would raise the price $.10 per pound (It only costs Jack 'N the Box $.01 more per pound, so my estimate is generous). That's a price I'm willing to pay. Hell, I could feel safe eating beef again.

The Polish girl I've been dating doesn't eat American beef because it is not tested enough.

Say what you will, 15 people needlessly have E. Coli because the U.S. refuses to test it's beef, which Europe does. If people die, they died because the government refused to raise beef prices a mere $.10 per pound.

Tryska
07-20-2002, 09:37 AM
<~~~~~~ is scared to death by the meat industry.

Goin_Big
07-20-2002, 09:40 AM
If you don't wanna eat beef, don't eat it, but you really aren't gonna talk a bunch of guys into quitting their beef eating habits.

Blood&Iron
07-20-2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Juan
So, a few of you are taking the argument "I've never gotten E. Coli, so I'm not worried about it". I've never gotten herpes, syphalis, or any STD, but I still worry about them! All it takes is coming into contact with tainted beef once, and you can die.

Yes, this is true, if you're a child, elderly, or have a compromised immune system. For an adult, it is incredibly unlikely. That said, I'd pay the extra money for testing. But again, getting sick, even if it was deathly ill, is not a big concern to me, particularly if all one needs to do is cook the meat thoroughly. Seems simple enough to me. I do avoid beef--although occasionally I'll have some--but not because of this. It's for the reason stated above. Paranoid, yes. But, I think, not entirely unfounded given the admittedly shoddy inspection of meat facilities in the US. What I find amazing is that many people think Mad Cow couldn't happen here, because 'We have laws against that.' One need only look at the recent recall to see that where there's profit, there will be shortcuts.

Blood&Iron
07-20-2002, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by Goin_Big
WHO YOU CALLIN A PRION, YOU F'IN PRION?

What's a prion?
http://www.msnbc.com/news/439861.asp?cp1=1

K-Daddy
07-20-2002, 10:08 AM
While it's true that you can't get rid of Mad Cow Disease by ordinary means (if any at all), you don't have to worry about E. Coli unless you're eating the stuff raw or rare. As long as the internal temperature (the temperature of the center of the meat, not necessarily throughout...the temperature of the meat is obviously going to be higher as you get toward the surface) is at 160 degrees (fahrenheit), you have nothing to worry about in dealing with E. Coli. Usually medium well to well will get rid of this. Anything below that is cause for concern, especially with rare and medium rare.

-Justin

Tryska
07-20-2002, 10:08 AM
well my fear of the industry doesn't stop me from eating meat...it just makes me more conscientout of where i get m beef from and how i cook it.

i prefer free-ranfe, hormone free meat from locally raised animals.

i can get that with chicken, unfortunately the free-range beef coems from texas.

polksalet
07-20-2002, 03:15 PM
I find it humorous to think mad cow disease can't be killed by any means. lololol

Alex.V
07-20-2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Juan
So, a few of you are taking the argument "I've never gotten E. Coli, so I'm not worried about it". I've never gotten herpes, syphalis, or any STD, but I still worry about them! All it takes is coming into contact with tainted beef once, and you can die.


I said the exact opposite. I HAVE gotten e. coli. And I lived. While unpleasant, it was my own damn fault for undercooking the meat. Never had problems since then, and I eat ground beef almost every day.

Juan
07-20-2002, 03:46 PM
Also keep i mind that E. Coli can be transmitted by unclean humans. If someone has it and doesn't wash their hands after using the bathroom, it can be transmitted. During the last major E. Coli outbreak, almost half of those infected did not eat any tainted beef, they caught it from another human. I wish I had the exact number on that, but I lent someone the book that contains that info.

McBain
07-20-2002, 04:24 PM
well maybe you should import some australian beef, i hear its much better than that crap you are currently being served:D

Goin_Big
07-20-2002, 04:47 PM
Paranoid Schizophrenia is a very dangerous pyschological disorder :)

on that note, beet is our friend.

galileo
07-20-2002, 07:00 PM
The first time I read this title I thought it said "Is anyone else here scared of the low quality of US beer?"

As soon as I found out you were talking about beef I stopped caring. So, I must make my own thread.

TurboStu
07-20-2002, 09:05 PM
I dont' care about beef at all. I am a hunter, so I hunt deer, turkey, etc. My meat is very healthy/lean/ and not tainted with all this un natural crap!

Juan
07-22-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Goin_Big
Paranoid Schizophrenia is a very dangerous pyschological disorder :)

on that note, beet is our friend. Yeah, but I find it lacks the protein of meat. Besides, many of us white people have problems finding it.

The healthiest meat you can get is stuff that you have killed yourself.

I guess I'm not so much scared for my own health. I'm just kind of upset at the poor public policy decision that the US government has made in relation to beef. That's what happens when you have a strong political lobby group like the meatpacking industry I guess.

That being said, I will continue to eat chicken, since I can get it free range, with fewer hormones, for cheaper than beef. Plus I think it tastes better.

Alex.V
07-22-2002, 01:43 PM
And for the last bleedin time, cow growth hormone doesn't do shite to humans. Neither do the anabolics that they're given. The amounts are miniscule, and the route of administration (oral....cooked) virtually ensures that nothing gets in.

Juan
07-22-2002, 02:13 PM
First, there have been no tests on BGH in humans. There have been no long term tests on the analobolics they are given in humans either. To conclude, based on no evidence, that something is safe, is pretty trusting. I like to have proof that something isn't dangerous before I put it inside my body. Also, it makes me suspicious when the meat industry blocks legislation that would require the labelling of meat with BGH in it.

We have some of the lowest beef standards in the world. If there ever is a mad cow disease outbreak here, we are screwed, since we have very low slaughterhouse standards.

If it is virtually insured that our meat is safe, why was 19 million pounds of beef just recalled? Why did these people needlessly get E. Coli?

If you are serious about learning about E. Coli's nasty effects, here you go:
http://www.about-ecoli.com/page3.htm

Alex.V
07-22-2002, 02:16 PM
Growth hormone is unique for every single species, and oral administration results in the hormone being broken down (it's a very long peptide chain).

And as for the anabolics.... lol. I've taken them. But the amount that enters systemically is miniscule. Any endocrinologist could back me up.

Juan
07-22-2002, 02:16 PM
Here is a list of recent outbreaks (although the website does not appear to have been updated this year):

Selected Listing of Prior E. coli Outbreaks

Pathogen Year Cases/Source Location
E coli O157:H7 2001 100 / School NC
E coli O157:H7 2001 11 / Cole Slaw OH
E coli O157:H7 1999 5 / Restaurant MN
E coli O157:H7 2000 34 / Hamburger MN, WI
E coli O157:H7 2000 781 / Water NY
E coli O157:H7 2000 171 / Fast-Food OR
E coli O157:H7 2000 58 / Salad Bar WI
E coli O157:H7 1998 12 / School Lunch WA
E coli O157:H7 1995 92 / Leaf Lettuce MT
E coli O157:H7 1992-93 14 / Raw Milk OR
E coli O157:H7 1995 11 /Jan Deer Jerkey (Homemade) OR
E coli O157:H7 1993 58 / Hamburger NV
E coli O157:H7 1997 15 / Hamburger CO
E coli O157:H7 1996 67 / Apple Juice (unpasteurized) CT, NY
E coli O157:H7 1994 17 / Samami WA, CA
E coli O157:H7 1996 70 / Apple Juice (unpasteurized) Western US, BC
E coli O157:H7 1992-93 501 / Hamburger WA
E coli O157:H7 1992-93 34 / Hamburger CA
E coli O157:H7 1995 10 / Hamburger GA, TN
E coli O157:H7 1993 21/ Hamburger CT
E coli O157:H7 1988 61 / Roast Beef WI
E coli O157:H7 1993 3 / Hamburger CA
E coli O157:H7 1991 18 / Apple Juice (unpasteurized) MA
E coli O157:H7 1998 32 / Swimming Pool GA

Blood&Iron
07-22-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Juan
The healthiest meat you can get is stuff that you have killed yourself.

Ah, but Chronic Wasting Disease(basically the same thing as Mad Cow) is endemic is quite a few deer and elk populations, so even then you might end up with little holes in your brain.

Juan
07-22-2002, 02:29 PM
Here is an article in the Consumer Union discussing why most of the first world does not allow it:
http://www.consumersunion.org/food/bghny899.htm

I think South Africa, Mexico and the US are the only countries in the world that allow it.

Read The Gaps Analysis if you are interested in why Canada no longer allows it. Basically it found flaws in the study submitted by Monsanto (engineered food giant) demonstrating the safety of it.

There are other concerns other than rBGH itself. It puts cattle at higher risk for disease, increasing the amount of antibiotics that are injected into cows. The antibiotics are an issue as well.

Blood&Iron
07-22-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Juan
Here is an article in the Consumer Union discussing why most of the first world does not allow it:
http://www.consumersunion.org/food/bghny899.htm

Well, this will get you even if you don't eat beef. rBGH is used in milk cows. I try to buy milk from cows not treated with the stuff, considering I go through a gallon in about two days. Don't know if it's necessary, but I rather err on the side of caution.

Stray
07-22-2002, 02:39 PM
Getting E.Coli is GREAT for your cutting phase.

Juan
07-22-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Blood&amp;Iron

Well, this will get you even if you don't eat beef. rBGH is used in milk cows. I try to buy milk from cows not treated with the stuff, considering I go through a gallon in about two days. Don't know if it's necessary, but I rather err on the side of caution. Amen brother! I only use milk for protein shakes, but I too stick with no rBGH milk. The Vons house brand organic milk is relatively cheap.

Old dairy cows are used in cheap beef, such as ground beef.

Goin_Big
07-22-2002, 03:38 PM
I feel fine :)

I eat cheeseburgers and drink milk all the time.

So prove that I'm gonna get sick :)

Tadger
01-01-2004, 12:40 AM
Ugh. I really don't know what the deal is with this Mad Cow stuff.

"Mad Cow Disease" or Bovine spongiform encephalopathy is caused by introduction of an "infectious" prion into the CNS of cows (there's also a genetic component that's not yet understood fully). Many different animals have prions throughout the body. They're not too sure what they're for, but it looks like it has something to do with binding and regulation of copper ions. Infectious prions are simply a different conformation of the normal prion protein... same protein, just folded differently. The infectious conformation is extremely stable and cells can't break them down. They tend to polymerize and form a plaque. When normal prions come into contact with the infectious conformation, the normal one is converted to the more stable conformation. (The normal prion is about 43% alpha-helix, with the remaining 57% a random arrangement. There are 4 helices attached by some sections of random/irregular amino acid sequence. The helices are pretty stable, while the random arrangement is less so. The infectious prion (from sheep anyway) is about 43% beta pleated sheet and 30% alpha helix. The B-sheet envelops a pair of helices, and it's folded much tighter. For those of you with little knowledge of biochem read that "infectious prion = real stable.") The cells of the brain are perforated by the plaques of prions that build up, leaving the brain a spongy appearance, hence the name spongiform encephalopathy (literally it mesn sumthin like "sponge brain" sickness)... but this happens slowly over the course of several years and symptoms develop equally slow. The infectious prions are only found in the CNS of an animal with spongiform encephalopathy.

Infectious prions are responsible for Chronic Wasting Disease(CWD) in deer, elk and the like, scrapies in sheep and goats, bovine spongiform encephalopathy or "Mad Cow" Disease, Creuzfeldt-Jakob Disease in humans. Fish, chickens, frogs and turtles also harbor prions, but little research has been done with those. It's more than likely that these infectious prions occur in them too. CWD has become a concern in alot of the US as of late, so it's highly possible that the prions may have crossed from the deer to cattle. Left over sheep parts were used as a cheap protein source in cow food for a long while. Though the practice has since been banned, many of the cows still alive today were exposed to this type of feed in their lifetime. Because the disease takes so long to surface, cows may have contracted the disease years ago and the symptoms may not have become apparent as of yet. It's not possible yet to test for the presence of infectious prions without taking samples of brain tissue, which obviously can't happen without killing the animals first (though they're workin on that. There's several research groups addressing the problem of finding infectious prions in the blood).

I'm not sure if heat will denature the infectious prions. I do know that ozone can be used to destroy prions, while leaving the much larger protein and lipid molecules found in the blood of mammals, including cattle and humans, functionally intact, so the FDA is considering ozonation as a possible method of sterilizing ground beef... but there's more research that needs to be done before that happens I think.

You're not gonna end up with a problem from beef, nor meat that was close to a bone. Unless you have pieces of the CNS in there you're good. You won't need to worry about the viscera, cuz we don't eat that stuff in the US anyway. You may run into problems with deer and elk... but because those are cleaned by hand and not machine, there's very little risk that the meat may be infected. The only way I see any problem with that is if you get a spine shot, or maybe a head shot where the bullet travels down through the meat. That's gonna be pretty rare though. Even so, the chances of gettin the disease even in cases where the meat has been infected is still very low. As a general rule... it doesn't matter what animal you're eating, Never Eat Brains! Brains are not for eating.

In review:
- transmissable infectious prions are bad
- you can find them in many animals, not just cows
- it's highly unlikely you'll be exposed to any form of transmissable spongiform encephalopathy in the US
- the chances of contracting any sort of disease because of such exposure is even less likely
- Brains are not for eating
- Steaks are yummy... yay beef!

Bio lesson over.

donraja
01-01-2004, 01:16 AM
"As a general rule... it doesn't matter what animal you're eating, Never Eat Brains! Brains are not for eating"

LOL!

TrevorN
01-01-2004, 03:23 AM
yay....beef is gunna be cheaper in alberta canada again. ($.75 /lb)

im not worried about it

Stray
01-01-2004, 07:06 AM
"As a general rule... it doesn't matter what animal you're eating, Never Eat Brains! Brains are not for eating"

*slowly puts down his Brain-Smoothie and steps away*

BLAZE
01-01-2004, 05:11 PM
Everyone has millions of E.coli living in their large intestine. Hopefully the chefs wash their hands after using the bathroom like the sign says. And if we did have a mad cow outbreak I bet we would just blame canada like everything else.

manowar669
01-01-2004, 06:05 PM
Tadger beat me to it with the biology lesson on the Mad Cow scare. Anyway, if the growth hormone thing bothers you, befriend a hunter and get some venison, or better yet, hunt for yourself. There is no real evidence that CWD is transmitted to humans by eating venison. I eat very little beef, almost all of my red meat consumption is venison, mostly killed by myself. Not because I'm afraid of beef or anything, but why buy red meat when I have a freezer full of the stuff. And don't give me that "gamey" stuff, you couldn't tell if it was cooked correctly.

Tryska
01-02-2004, 07:09 AM
hell i'm just glad it took a BSE scare for the general public to start paying attention to the practises i've beenr anting about for the last couple of years.


*eats a certified organic, free-range, grass-fed, privately butchered steak. well done.*

Stray
01-02-2004, 10:58 AM
*eats a certified organic, free-range, grass-fed, privately butchered steak. well done.*

You'd think that the free roaming, well fed cows living this happy existence would be the last ones you'd want to have put to death. ;)

Allenronm
01-02-2004, 11:05 AM
I agree with Tryska.

I try and stay away from beef as much as possible.

Funny thing is last night I had a great hamburger at Mr. Steers. That was an aberration though.

Tryska
01-02-2004, 11:34 AM
You'd think that the free roaming, well fed cows living this happy existence would be the last ones you'd want to have put to death. ;)


something's gotta die so i can eat man.

ElPietro
01-02-2004, 11:39 AM
Say what you will, 15 people needlessly have E. Coli because the U.S. refuses to test it's beef, which Europe does. If people die, they died because the government refused to raise beef prices a mere $.10 per pound.


I like beef. Steak tastes good. It tastes better medium rare. 15 out of 300 million is a chance I'm willing to take. But then I live in canada so maybe our practices are better. Still I don't see this as a major issue, considering I have never in my lifetime seens any widespread or even common problems from eating beef.

I'm sure there are at least 1,000 other issues floating around that we could scream the sky is falling over. It seems like it's always the most miniscule issues that people get alarmed over. I'm sure the air you breathe, the doorknobs you turn, and the people you interact with, all are 100 times more of a threat than contaminated beef, but life goes on. I guess we could all just walk around in plastic bubbles, but I try not to be ruled by paranoia. The odds of all these issues are generally so small, it is not worth making the changes to my day to day behaviour to avoid them.

Majestic
01-03-2004, 07:10 PM
I find it humorous to think mad cow disease can't be killed by any means. lololol

Sort of like Keith Richards, in a way...... :confused:


".....this may be why Keef Richards cannot be killed by conventional weapons......"
(a line from the movie "Wayne's World II") :alcoholic

Saint Patrick
01-03-2004, 07:21 PM
*slaughters a moo-cow*

STM
01-03-2004, 11:27 PM
A website to look at:

http://www.madcowboy.com/01_FactsMC.000.html

Anyhow I heard this guy on the radio today and he was talking about how alzheimers(sp?) could be misdiagnosed, and really is CJD.

Another interesting thing he said is Canada and the US are basically one herd. Meaning that there is very little done to segregate the two. So the only thing that matters is how we test the animals.

I for one am worried, as I love beef. What happens when they start testing every critter. Is beef going to become super expensive? Or will consumers rather have untested beef, and pay less for it?

Personally I would like to pay more, and be assured that I wont get CJD from my dinner.

Scary ****, who knows how many cases are out there?

DavidI
01-04-2004, 12:39 AM
Alberta beef is pretty damn safe. Too bad the U.S. banned its import so now you guys are stuck with your own poor quality junk. /bias

shootermcgavin7
01-04-2004, 08:41 AM
Anyhow I heard this guy on the radio today and he was talking about how alzheimers(sp?) could be misdiagnosed, and really is CJD.

CJD kills in 6-14 months and is distiguishable from Alzheimer's disease through lab tests while the patient is still living.





I for one am worried, as I love beef. What happens when they start testing every critter. Is beef going to become super expensive? Or will consumers rather have untested beef, and pay less for it?

Personally I would like to pay more, and be assured that I wont get CJD from my dinner.

Scary ****, who knows how many cases are out there?


There are basically two types of CJD, probably be wise to define them both.

Only about 150 cases of the human disease linked to mad cow, known as "variant" CJD, have been counted worldwide since it was first formally described in 1996. (The vast majority of those cases are in the United Kingdom.) But every year, about 250 people in the United States alone are diagnosed with classic CJD, a disease known for 80 years.
The cause of classic CJD is thought to be inherited through a genetic mutation, not through any sort of food intake.

Also, the rogue proteins called prions that cause both mad cow disease and variant CJD aren't found in cow muscle tissue, the source of roasts, steaks and other beef cuts. (Prions are found in the brain, spinal cord and small intestine).

BigCorey75
01-04-2004, 10:05 AM
im a huge fan of beef. but i see so many people eat meat that is still red in the middle , hell ive seen people eat meat that is still bleeding which i think is disusting, all people have to do is cook there bef all the way through and alot of the health problems will be knocked out.

hate to beat a dead horse in the ground but cook your beef people!!

pokeskickazzz
01-06-2004, 12:05 PM
I just eat my meat how i want and don't worry about. I'm not going to spend my life worrying about getting sick. If you do that you can worry about everything you eat... Ever seen what gets mixed into your peanut butter??!!

Rare all the way.

STM
01-06-2004, 07:30 PM
Alberta beef is pretty damn safe. Too bad the U.S. banned its import so now you guys are stuck with your own poor quality junk. /bias

See the DNA results? Cow in WA was from alberta. So you will have to eat your words..

Tryska
01-07-2004, 07:22 AM
*sings*

blame canada! blame canada!

ElPietro
01-07-2004, 07:43 AM
Maybe we sold that one bad cow to you guys knowing you wouldn't screen for it. ;)

AllUp
01-07-2004, 11:07 AM
Lol, I'm gonna see if anyone is selling Cow-Brain on e-bay. Knowing the clowns there, im sure someone has one. or maybe buy a spine/skull intact and make a Mad Cow Mallet.. Not sure yet. :P