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Jane
07-19-2002, 07:51 PM
Hey all,
If you still remember who I am ;), I'd appreciate a little help. My schedule here at Governors School is packed, but I'd like to get a nice long response going to this email I got from a 'concerned friend.'

Now, I COULD respond to it, but I'm sure to leave stuff out. So I'm calling all of you out to dispute the myths of the general public and help adjust a couple of these.


12 Good reasons to avoid high protein diets

1. They violate almost every known fact about nutritionally balanced eating. For some
dieters, these diets can even be life-threatening.

2. Popular high protein diet foods are high in cholesterol and saturated fat, which are now
established as major culprits in heart attacks and strokes.

3. They overload you with protein, which results in loss of calcium from your bones, which
may lead to osteoporosis. Protein overload also pressurizes your kidneys as they try to
eliminate large amounts of urea, a by-product of protein metabolism.

4. They forbid foods known to lower the risk of heart disease and many cancers.

5. They deprive you of carbohydrates, the nutrient group most readily converted to
energy. Even moderately active people will notice this lack during exercise.

6. They deprive your brain of glucose, which it needs for normal functioning. The result is
a slowdown in thinking and reaction time.

7. They deprive you of the enormous benefits of fiber, which is a form of carbohydrate
(cellulose).

8. They are deficient in essential vitamins. Indeed, some high protein diets even require
you to take vitamin supplements for the sake of your health.

9. They cause potentially dangerous changes in your body chemistry.

10. They run contrary to the latest World Cancer Research Fund Report, entitled
Food, Nutrition and the Prevention of Cancer.

11. They deliver temporary weight loss. But a large part of it is water weight and lean
muscle mass - not fat. (You lose water because your kidneys try to get rid of the excess
waste products of protein and fat, called ketones, that your body makes.)

Note: Weight gain is usually rapid when you go off the diet.

12. Finally, it's worth knowing that while your body burns up 23 calories for every 100
carbohydrate calories it 'digests', it only burns up 3 calories for every 100 fat calories it
'digests'. So a high-protein, low carbohydrate diet makes it easier for you to stay fat!

Warning!
The average Western diet contains TOO MUCH FAT.
That's why an estimated 1 in 3 American children are overweight!!
That's why heart disease is the No 1 killer in America and Europe.
We should be eating less fat, not more.

High protein diets encourage high-fat eating and - for this reason alone - they
should be avoided.

Blood&Iron
07-19-2002, 07:57 PM
Who the hell are you?

Orange357
07-19-2002, 08:04 PM
LMAO!

Behemoth
07-19-2002, 08:49 PM
*outraged*

Yeah some of those things might happen.... if you were eating nothing but fuggin protein!

How can people be so stupid and write this stuff?

GIS
07-19-2002, 11:28 PM
I JUST watched a 20/20 report on TV about it and they have a little summary on their web site. Harvard has spent 20 years and studied 300,000 people and all indications show that carbs are what tend to get people fat, and that high protein diets are the best way to go. Something tells me the people at Harvard are fairly intellegent people, and 300,000 people is a very large sample making the statistics have a very high level of accuracy.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/2020/2020_diets020719.html

Tell him/her high protein diets don't mean JUST protein as his little arguments seem to suggest between not enough calcium, vitamins, etc. Sure I eat 225 grams of protein a day, but I eat 3,000+ calories, a lot of which come from carbs and fat. It's all about moderation, protein diets dont mean JUST protein.

(edited because I'm a dumbass)

Goin_Big
07-19-2002, 11:33 PM
lol, jane.....nope, don't ring a bell :D

I got nothing, I really don't know if a high protein diet is good for you or not.

Scooby-Doo
07-19-2002, 11:58 PM
Protein = Good :)

The_Chicken_Daddy
07-20-2002, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by Jane

1. They violate almost every known fact about nutritionally balanced eating. For some
dieters, these diets can even be life-threatening.

Balance in what way? By modern industrial-day standards? Remember those 'acient warrior' chaps and chapesses who ate high protein, moderate fat diets and got carbs (cyclically in high amounts when the seasons were ripe) mostly from fruits and berries etc in small(ish) amounts. I wonder what their incidence of heart disease, diabetes and cancer was like... The life thretening aspect of diet is from long-term (since the body is quite a resistant little buggar) consumption of heavy processed foods and lack of activity. By eating 'closer to nature' if you will, you can lessen these dangers to some degree.



2. Popular high protein diet foods are high in cholesterol and saturated fat, which are now
established as major culprits in heart attacks and strokes.

Yeah, it has been proven that cholesterol and saturated fat intake effects blood cholesterol levels - but at the same time they didn't assess the effect that carbohydrate had. There's also proof that cholesterol intake has no effect on blood cholesterol levels too so no one can definately say for certain.




3. They overload you with protein, which results in loss of calcium from your bones, which
may lead to osteoporosis. Protein overload also pressurizes your kidneys as they try to
eliminate large amounts of urea, a by-product of protein metabolism.

Which is why it is recommended to take a calcium supplement of up to 1500mg-1800mg of calcium a day. And there's no proof that your kidney's struggle to eliminate the urea. Not if they're healthy kidneys and not already at fault (ie kidney damage) before you start the diet (incidentally, the only scientific evidence that higher protein diets cause kidney damage is shown in already damaged kidneys).




4. They forbid foods known to lower the risk of heart disease and many cancers.

Firstly, By saying "high protein" people don't instantly mean 'ketosis' diets. But, if we're talking specifically about ketosis diets, then it's true to some extent. But it is possible to eat say, fruit (in very moderate amounts) and still stay in ketosis, but it's not recommended incase it does knock you out of ketosis. Also, recall that you're not planning on staying in ketosis for the remaining of your life. You're only doing this kind of diet to drop the fat in a shorter peroid of time (say 12 weeks or so). And then there's the fact that you're only in ketosis for about 5 days on the cyclical plan, and around training times on the targeted plan. During the refeeds you're more than able to eat fruit and what-not.



5. They deprive you of carbohydrates, the nutrient group most readily converted to
energy. Even moderately active people will notice this lack during exercise.

Fat is probably the most ideal source of energy! 1 gram yeilds 9 calories as opposed to carbohydrate's 4. In fact, i believe that for up to 95% of all activities, fat is the body's preferred choice of fuel. Carbs are most suited for anaerobic exercise though, because carbohydrate is more readily used to generate ATP in a quicker time, whereas fat takes a little longer so it's not ideal. Once you're used to the training (which is arranged around your carb loading patterns to allow for better training) in this state, your performance will improve.




6. They deprive your brain of glucose, which it needs for normal functioning. The result is
a slowdown in thinking and reaction time.

Protein gets converted into glucose (via gluconeogenesis) and can supply the brain with glucose if it so requires. Lest ye not forget that the brain can run off ketones. The ketosis haze isn't permanent and most say they notice a feeling of "euphoria" once they've made the transition into ketosis. Ironically, too many carbs will have the same effect of slowing down thinking and reaction time due to the seritonnin boost. This does however, mean that the carb load doesn't put you in an ideal frame of mind. This happens cause there are 5 aminos that compete for transport across the blood brain barrier, one of them being tryptophan - the precursor for seritonnin. There are only so many receptor sites for these aminos to compete for, so there's a "balance" if you will. However, once you eat carbs, the insulin release the body uses to lower blood sugar levels actually transports the aminos into body tissues like muscle - except the tryptophan because it is bound to a protein (albumin i think) and so isn't carried by the insulin. This means that the tryptophan has an easy access through the blood brain barrier in larger amounts and thus, converts to seritonnin and makes you feel all groggy. This happens anytime you eat a high carb meal.




7. They deprive you of the enormous benefits of fiber, which is a form of carbohydrate
(cellulose).

There's nothing to stop you from eating some green veggies as long as you know the mark where you stay in ketosis and try to keep within this limit - it is very possible for some people to eat up to 60g of active carbs and still stay in ketosis. And you can very easily supplement with fibre.




8. They are deficient in essential vitamins. Indeed, some high protein diets even require
you to take vitamin supplements for the sake of your health.

It's probably recommended that everyone supplement with a vitamin supplement of some sort. A large proportion of the world are deficient in vitamins and minerals.



9. They cause potentially dangerous changes in your body chemistry.

Like what? Any more dangerous then long term chronic consumption of sugary refined carbs can have?




10. They run contrary to the latest World Cancer Research Fund Report, entitled
Food, Nutrition and the Prevention of Cancer.

Well that point says absolutely nothing. It doesn't explain what it goes against. In fact, i'll hazard that it's related to the studies showing fruit and vegetables to be full of anti-oxidants and that they can be anti-carcinogenic. That'll prolly be about it. Like i said earlier, it's true to some extent, but you're only in ketosis for a short period of time in relation to the broad scope of life.




11. They deliver temporary weight loss. But a large part of it is water weight and lean
muscle mass - not fat. (You lose water because your kidneys try to get rid of the excess
waste products of protein and fat, called ketones, that your body makes.)

You lose water weight at first yes, but once you're burning ketones you're dropping fat. Also, ketones are 'anti-catobolic' so you actually retain muscle mass. And you lose water cause you reduce the amount of glycogen in the muscles and liver (and since glycogen actually holds water, you drop this too). And the ketones come from partially metabolised fat, not protein.

All in all, that point is pretty much void.



Note: Weight gain is usually rapid when you go off the diet.

Yes, you refill glycogen stores, but if you've dropped fat nicely, your body composition is totally different. Weight itself means little, body composition means more.



12. Finally, it's worth knowing that while your body burns up 23 calories for every 100
carbohydrate calories it 'digests', it only burns up 3 calories for every 100 fat calories it
'digests'. So a high-protein, low carbohydrate diet makes it easier for you to stay fat!

Yeah, and protein is more thermogenic than carbohydrate. Protein actually loses about 30% of it's own calories from it's own digestion. Carbohydrate lose less - in fact, i'd query that claim of 23 cals out of 100 cause that would mean you lose 23% of it's own calories in digestion, and i've read that it's not that high. I was under the impression it was closer to the 10-15% mark.

And the last sentence "So a high-protein, low carbohydrate diet makes it easier for you to stay fat!" is totally retarded and deserves a medal.



Warning!
The average Western diet contains TOO MUCH FAT.

Yes, i agree. It also contains too much sugar.




That's why an estimated 1 in 3 American children are overweight!!

No, that's cause they're greedy little fuckers who eat too many calories and don't do enough exercise.




That's why heart disease is the No 1 killer in America and Europe.

Only because the high fat is coupled with diet high in refined sugars.



We should be eating less fat, not more.


In some senses this statement is almost correct. We eat too much fat and refined sugars. Our consumption of trans fatty acids and partically hydrogenated fats should be reduced significantly BUT consumption of EFA's should be siginificantly increased.

The_Chicken_Daddy
07-20-2002, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



Yeah, and protein is more thermogenic than carbohydrate. Protein actually loses about 30% of it's own calories from it's own digestion. Carbohydrate lose less - in fact, i'd query that claim of 23 cals out of 100 cause that would mean you lose 23% of it's own calories in digestion, and i've read that it's not that high. I was under the impression it was closer to the 10-15% mark.



Ironically, no sooner had i typed this, that i was scanning MFW and found this from Lyle MDonald:

"Let's look at the numbers:

Protein: 20-25%. Of 100 calories eaten, 25 get burned in processing.
Carbs: 6% to be stored as glycogen, 23% to be stored as fat (note, this
almost never happens). Of 100 calories eaten, 6 get burned in processing.
Fat: 3%. Of 100 calories eaten, 3 get burned in processing."

Marcel
07-20-2002, 04:31 AM
Robboe 'shredded' it up.

Good job amigo.

Tryska
07-20-2002, 09:43 AM
word.

Orange357
07-20-2002, 12:33 PM
:thumbup:

IceRgrrl
07-20-2002, 02:05 PM
OR...just don't respond. Send the message that it is not worthy of your response.

And if you really wanted to be mean you could also find or author some nice little piece that attacks Concerned Friend's hobby/interest/beliefs/philosophy/etc. and if Friend is miffed, simply point out that "Well since you decided that it was okay to pass judgement in my personal life I thought it only fair to return the favor."

But then I have a evil streak :D

Spiderman
07-21-2002, 11:02 AM
So I shall assume this email was about a high protein/LOW CARB diet? Rob hit the nail on the head on every point. A high protein diet with a good amount of carbohydrates has never been proven to be harmfull. Damn, what idiot sent you this?

I'd take IceRgrrl's advice and return the email rippin'em a new one about one or some of their beliefs or practices. That should make them stfu. :)

Jane
09-26-2002, 04:37 PM
Remember this?

AdamGberg
09-26-2002, 04:56 PM
i thought it is a big no no to bring back "dead threads," or is it a yes yes? hmmm...not quite sure

Big Daddy
09-26-2002, 07:13 PM
Spot on Chicken Daddy!!!

Jane
09-26-2002, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by AdamGberg
i thought it is a big no no to bring back "dead threads," or is it a yes yes? hmmm...not quite sure
It depends on the thread. If the thread had some worthwhile information that can useful to any of the members, I don't see why bringing it back to attention once more would be deleterious.

smalls
09-26-2002, 07:42 PM
I know this is old, but I just wanted to say I love how everyone lumps all diets higher than 50gs of protein as a high protein diet, and then talks about them like they are the same. Regardless if its a classic bodybuilding diet, someone just upping their protein or a ketosis diet. Even my p.h.d. nutrition teacher doesnt see the difference. ugg people are dumb.