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Avatar
07-23-2002, 12:08 PM
Ok if I use 3-4 hours of drinking at a club/bar as my refeed what is a better option to drink - beer or vodka coolers?

I was thinking vodka coolers cause they're made with more sugar, right?

Alex.V
07-23-2002, 12:14 PM
lmao. :D




Wait....

You serious?

gettinjackT
07-23-2002, 12:41 PM
I hope he's joking...............ROTFLMFAO:alcoholic

Budiak
07-23-2002, 02:55 PM
Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Buddy, its called a refeed because you EAT A LOT, not drink yourself into a stupor.

I say you go to a pizza place and get a large with everything and a pitcher of your favorite beer, or maybe out for some German sausages and beer, or some nachos and beer, or beer and beer, or spam and beer, or my favorite, block of cheese and beer.

Blood&Iron
07-23-2002, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Budiak

Buddy, its called a refeed because you EAT A LOT, not drink yourself into a stupor.

I say you go to a pizza place and get a large with everything and a pitcher of your favorite beer, or maybe out for some German sausages and beer, or some nachos and beer, or beer and beer, or spam and beer, or my favorite, block of cheese and beer.
That's not a refeed either.

heathj
07-23-2002, 03:05 PM
Refeeds are supposed to have a certain amount of fat/carbs/protein, if I'm not mistaken.

gettinjackT
07-23-2002, 03:08 PM
What are you refeeding for?

galileo
07-23-2002, 03:18 PM
That reminds me, I got so refed last weekend! I woke up on a train to New Jersey with clothes on that weren't even mine. I swear to God, I'll never refeed again!

body
07-23-2002, 03:28 PM
drink baileys or alcoholic milk shake as they have a bit of protein in!

heathj
07-23-2002, 03:33 PM
You could drink Horse Jizz..it's milk + beer..give ya some protein.. :)

Marcel
07-23-2002, 04:19 PM
lmao @ some of the comments made.

:alcoholic

body
07-23-2002, 04:23 PM
if you add some weight gain to vodka, it will probably make it taste nice.

Avatar
07-23-2002, 04:30 PM
no it was a serious question. Beer and vodka coolers are over 95% carbs/alcohol. I was just wondering what would be best if they were soely used as a refeed.

Refeeds are supposed to be primarily carbs, for those of you who are suggesting I eat pizza and tons of other fattening stuff.

So back to the original question - Aye for vodka coolers due to higher sugar?

Maki Riddington
07-23-2002, 04:54 PM
There's a difference between a carb up and a refeed.
I like carb ups.
It allows me to drink, eat and eat again.

Blood&Iron
07-23-2002, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
There's a difference between a carb up and a refeed.
I like carb ups.
It allows me to drink, eat and eat again.
I dunno. I think the terminology is still a bit up in the air. Personally, I consider 'carb up' and 'refeed' as synonymous-- meaning high carb, primarily high GI, low fat, and moderate protein. Cheat days are the 'eat whatever the hell you feel like' days.

Avatar
07-23-2002, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron

I dunno. I think the terminology is still a bit up in the air. Personally, I consider 'carb up' and 'refeed' as synonymous-- meaning high carb, primarily high GI, low fat, and moderate protein. Cheat days are the 'eat whatever the hell you feel like' days.

I agree with B&I here. I had the same understanding of terminologies.

Marcel
07-23-2002, 07:34 PM
So then it is a cheat day. I don't see alcohol in there.

Cheat, cheat, cheat, :alcoholic

Alex.V
07-23-2002, 07:47 PM
Aye. Beer isn't that high in carbs, actually. So any sugary alcoholic drink is the only way to go, avatar. Still think it's taking slight advantage, and following the letter not the spirit, but whatever. ;)

Natural Animal
07-23-2002, 10:50 PM
hahahahahahahah.....what a crack up

Galileo is funny, we should go out and get refed one time and pick up some chicks man!!!

Shocker
07-24-2002, 03:37 AM
so can you cheat, carb load and refeed at the same time?

Marcel
07-24-2002, 03:44 AM
Can you? Yes.

Will it be as beneficial as a 'REAL' re-feed? No.

Will it be as beneficial as a 'REAL' carb load? No.

Will it make you a cheater and glutton? Yes.

Avatar
07-24-2002, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Marcel
Can you? Yes.

Will it be as beneficial as a 'REAL' re-feed? No.

Will it be as beneficial as a 'REAL' carb load? No.

Will it make you a cheater and glutton? Yes.

Will it give me more of a social life again? Yes.

Will it help me get laid more? Yes.

you seem to lack the understanding that vodka coolers are high in surgary carbs and low in fats.

I know what you guys are saying though. I'm taking advantage of the refeed idea. But that was the idea. :D No but seriously, I don't see 4-5 drinks at a club on a friday night detrimental at all to dieting, especially when I'm dancing the entire night. Therefore, there would be no other refeeds of food that week. I still don't know what I'll do. I don't crave alcohol to the slightest or any bad foods for that matter these last few weeks.

From self-experimentation over the last few weeks, I'm actually not that impressed with refeeds as opposed to straight dieting. I'm gonna learn more through self-experimentation overtime.

Stray
07-24-2002, 10:09 AM
12 ounce arm curls are great for bicep definition.

galileo
07-24-2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Natural Animal
hahahahahahahah.....what a crack up

Galileo is funny, we should go out and get refed one time and pick up some chicks man!!!

After last time, it might be a while before I could refeed again. My poor head...
:eek:

Marcel
07-24-2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Avatar


Will it give me more of a social life again? Yes.

Will it help me get laid more? Yes.

you seem to lack the understanding that vodka coolers are high in surgary carbs and low in fats.

I know what you guys are saying though. I'm taking advantage of the refeed idea. But that was the idea. :D No but seriously, I don't see 4-5 drinks at a club on a friday night detrimental at all to dieting, especially when I'm dancing the entire night. Therefore, there would be no other refeeds of food that week. I still don't know what I'll do. I don't crave alcohol to the slightest or any bad foods for that matter these last few weeks.

From self-experimentation over the last few weeks, I'm actually not that impressed with refeeds as opposed to straight dieting. I'm gonna learn more through self-experimentation overtime.

Do you have to drink to have 'more of a social life' ? Well you do.

Do you have to drink to get laid more? Well you do.

I do indeed understand what vodka coolers are. I could care less wether you drink or not. What is sad is when people start thinking it's going to be of most benefit to re-feed, carb-up AND drink. You do all that at ONCE and you are cheating.

If you don't find 4-5 drinks detrimental to dieting then why all the big fuss???

On that note...:alcoholic

Alex.V
07-24-2002, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Avatar



Will it help me get laid more? Yes.


Dude, no, you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to get HER drunk.

Maki Riddington
07-24-2002, 04:58 PM
I see carb ups as being a way to get a lot of carbs in with no regard to protein intake.
Where as refeeds are more structured around a set bunch of ratios involving the three macronutrients.

Avatar
07-24-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Belial


Dude, no, you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to get HER drunk.

haha shiat I had it backwards. :p

oh well, you don't have to try hard at a club. By the time I get there at 11ish, all the chicks are hammered already. I go late so that all the other chumps already bought them their drinks. :D

nightop
07-24-2002, 09:27 PM
why not to drink at all if you are serious about training >

"Why alcohol is anathema to bodybuilding.....
1: Alcohol Clin Exp Res 1997 Aug;21(5):792-8 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Studies on the time-course of ethanol's acute effects on skeletal muscle protein synthesis: comparison with acute changes in proteolytic activity.

Reilly ME, Mantle D, Richardson PJ, Salisbury J, Jones J, Peters TJ, Preedy VR.

Department of Clinical Biochemistry, King's College School of Medicine and Dentistry, London, United Kingdom.

A study of the effects of ethanol on skeletal muscle protein synthesis and protease activities was carried out in young male Wistar rats (150 g) for up to 24 hr after a single intraperitoneal dose of 75 mmol of ethanol/kg of body weight. At 20 min, the mean blood ethanol levels were 448 mg/dl. This level dropped steadily to zero through the following 24 hr.

So, this study basically looks at the effects of ethanol 24 hours
after drinking it.

Compared with pair-fed controls, significant reductions in total protein, RNA, and DNA contents were seen only after 24 hr in all skeletal muscles studied: changes were more marked in the muscles containing large proportions of type II fibers. In plantaris muscle, the fractional rate of protein synthesis (ks, %/day) did not fall 20 min after dosage but was reduced after 1 hr by 23% (p < 0.001), and by 63% after 24 hr, compared with control saline-injected rats (p < 0.001).

So, let us see.......23% reduction in protein synthesis after
1 hr and 63%!!!! after 24 hours.


This effect was independent of dietary intake because,

VERY IMPORTANT: Effect was independent of dietary intake.
SO, even with a PERFECT diet, ethanol still wreaks HAVOC
with your bodies anabolicity.

compared with the pair-fed group, the 24-hr ethanol-treated rats still showed a 52% decrease in fractional rates of protein synthesis (p < 0.001). Smaller reductions in ks were seen in soleus muscles in response to ethanol at 24 hr (-39%, p < 0.001). The activities of a variety of lysosomal and nonlysosomal proteases in plantaris muscle of 24-hr treated rats were not significantly affected by ethanol. Only alanyl- and tripeptidyl-aminopeptidase activities were reduced significantly (26%, p < 0.05 and 39%, p < 0.01, respectively). These results suggest that the muscle compositional changes seen over acute periods of ethanol toxicity are predominantly associated with impaired synthesis of protein and that the contribution of cellular proteolytic systems may be minimal.

Again,

The effects of ethanol on skeletal muscle protein metabolism are greater in muscles containing a predominance of type II fibers than in those containing mainly type I fibers.

Type II fibers= LARGE muscle fibers for TRAINING.
Type I=Fast twitch for activities like walking.

Ethanol's effects on muscle may be influenced by hormonal changes after 24 hr, because protein synthesis is still compromised and free plasma T3 and corticosterone are altered at this time-point.

Even worse, ethanol causes a HORMONAL shift. It increases
estrogen through the up-regulation of the aromatase enzyme,
lowers testosterone,increases cortisol and to boot reduces
free T3 levels.

PMID: 9267527 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So, the next time you go drinking go for some non-alcoholic
drinks if on cycle. Or use an alcohol replacer.

If you drink, and wonder why you don't grow, well......
read and learn then, because this is for you. "

nightop
07-24-2002, 09:29 PM
One glass of wine while with your woman/wife for a formal dinner is one thing.... "vodka refeeds" are quite another

Shankerr
07-25-2002, 02:26 AM
Well, I'd have to go with the Vodka coolers if its necessary, (and it is) like you said, lower fats, high carbs, and you don't get that nasty beer bloat the next day (ugh) Just be sure to pour them into a glass first... my mates and I always laugh at the guys at a club carrying around Smirnoff bottles.. As well, all the girls that you'll be picking up because of the huge muscles you develop on non-refeed days will be more than happy to help ya burn off some of the excess carbs you may consume ;)

Avatar
07-25-2002, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Shankerr
Well, I'd have to go with the Vodka coolers if its necessary, (and it is) like you said, lower fats, high carbs, and you don't get that nasty beer bloat the next day (ugh) Just be sure to pour them into a glass first... my mates and I always laugh at the guys at a club carrying around Smirnoff bottles.. As well, all the girls that you'll be picking up because of the huge muscles you develop on non-refeed days will be more than happy to help ya burn off some of the excess carbs you may consume ;)

lmao @ shankerr's comments.

Relentless
07-25-2002, 08:32 AM
A lot of what I see posted on this board inclines me to believe that people are taking the 'refeed' concept and repurposing it to become semantically equivalent to "eat/drink whatever crap I want and rationalize it as a refeed"

rookiebldr
07-25-2002, 08:40 AM
Yep, I would tend to agree with you, definitely not all but some.

Avatar
07-25-2002, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Callahan
A lot of what I see posted on this board inclines me to believe that people are taking the 'refeed' concept and repurposing it to become semantically equivalent to "eat/drink whatever crap I want and rationalize it as a refeed"

Your right a lot do. Now if your comment was directed at me, I have a problem with it.

I do not desire alcohol, nor any bad foods for that matter right now. No craving whatsover. However, if I do force myself to drink while I'm at a club to be more sociable once every 1-2 weeks, I will want to choose the best alcoholic beverage that suits my diet. The choice is a high carb, no fat, no protein beverage.

On a day that I'm taking in 1900 calories, if I have 4 vodka coolers that evening, that'll equate to a total of about 2600-2700 (4 coolers = 800kcal?) calories for the entire day, consisting of high carbs, moderately high protein from earlier in the day, and low fats (<20%) from earlier in the day. Lets not forget I'll be dancing for 2-4 hours.

Other than there being some alcohol in a vodka cooler, and is very enjoyable, social, etc., you tell me whats the psychological difference between drinking a cooler, and someone who drinks juice on a refeed day. Are they making excuses too?

There is nothing wrong with manipulating the culture of bodybuilding to maintain socialization skills and practices with the general population if it does not hinder one's goals.

gopher
07-25-2002, 10:53 AM
4 vodka coolers is going to be detrimental to your bodybuilding goals. 4 glasses of juice as part of your refeed day will not. Alcohol slowes your metabolism and raises estrogen levels. 2 things you do not want to happen when you are trying to create a lean muscular physique. Also the calories from alcohol are empty. This means they have no nutritional value. Juice will at least give you some vitamins and minerals. Whole fruits would be a much better choice than juice IMO but at least with juice you do not get the negative effects of alcohol.
I am curious why you "force" yourself to drink. That makes it sound like you would rather not but do it because you feel you should. Couldn't you just go to the club and dance and drink juice instead of coolers?

Avatar
07-25-2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by gopher
4 vodka coolers is going to be detrimental to your bodybuilding goals. 4 glasses of juice as part of your refeed day will not. Alcohol slowes your metabolism and raises estrogen levels. 2 things you do not want to happen when you are trying to create a lean muscular physique. Also the calories from alcohol are empty. This means they have no nutritional value. Juice will at least give you some vitamins and minerals. Whole fruits would be a much better choice than juice IMO but at least with juice you do not get the negative effects of alcohol.
I am curious why you "force" yourself to drink. That makes it sound like you would rather not but do it because you feel you should. Couldn't you just go to the club and dance and drink juice instead of coolers?

haha ya I'll go to bar and say to the bartender "Gimme a 12 ouncer of O.J. on the rocks".

Relentless
07-25-2002, 11:10 AM
I guess I just can't picture alcoholic bevvies as a "traditional" refeed, is all.

Anyway, I probably just have an inadequate understanding of what a 'refeed' is supposed to be. I certainly didn't mean to offend; I probably should have posted that comment in its own thread rather than here...

Avatar
07-25-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Callahan
I guess I just can't picture alcoholic bevvies as a "traditional" refeed, is all.

Anyway, I probably just have an inadequate understanding of what a 'refeed' is supposed to be. I certainly didn't mean to offend; I probably should have posted that comment in its own thread rather than here...

Not a problem Callahan. I did agree with your statement about many using refeeds as an excuse. I just thought you were directing it at me. My case is a bit different. I haven't drank in months, and may not at all for a while yet. Its still up in the air.

Relentless
07-25-2002, 11:22 AM
Oh!

And as far as what to drink, should you decide to drink as a refeed or whatever:

GUINNESS!!!

It's good for you!

insectman
07-25-2002, 12:07 PM
hmmmm, drinking 16-20 vodka coolers isn't going to do mybody much good I guess, refeed or no refeed.

:(

bob2624
07-27-2002, 06:05 PM
can someone tell me what is refeeding?