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View Full Version : Please Help Me Design My Westside Routine..



MonStar
07-25-2002, 01:29 AM
Okay I have decided after much thought to give Westside a shot. No reason that I shouldnt try and ulitize all aspects of strength training etc.

Seems VERY confusing so far though.

Okay there is a Max Effort (ME) day for squat/deadlift and bench, and a dynamic day for bench and squat/deadlift?

Something like this I guess.

Day 1: ME Squat/Deadlift
Day 2: Rest
Day 3: ME Bench
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Dynamic Squat/Deadlift
Day 6: Rest
Day 7: Dynamic Bench

ME squat/deadlift
Good Mornings work up to a max triple, then to a max single
Pull Throughs 3 sets 8-10 reps
Machine Crunches 3 sets 10-12 reps
DB Side Bends 3 sets 4-8 reps
Reverse Hyperextensions 3 sets 8-12 reps ... :confused::confused: What do reverse hypers look like!!??

ME bench
Half Bench Presses work up to a max triple, then a max single
Flat DB Flyes 3 sets of 5
Skull Crushers 3 sets of 4-6 reps
Seated V-bar Pulldowns 3 sets 5-8 reps
One-arm DB Rows 3 sets 5-8 reps
DB Hammer Curls 3 sets 5-8 reps
One-arm DB Side Laterals 3 sets 8-10 reps *light*

Dynamic squat/deadlift
Speed Squats 10 sets of 2 reps at 50% 1RM
Speed Deadlifts 6 singles of 60% 1RM
Rack Pulls 3 sets 5-8 reps
5-Second Paused Machine Crunches 3 sets 8-12 reps
DB Side Bends 3 sets 4-8 reps
Reverse Hypers 3 sets 6-8 reps

Dynamic bench
Speed Bench Presses 8 sets 3 reps @ 60% 1RM
Dips 3 sets of 5
Seated Skulls 3 sets 6-10 reps
Curl-grip Chins 3 sets 5-8 reps
Incline Underhand Rows 3 sets 5-8 reps
Barbell Curls 3 sets 5-8 reps
One-arm Cable Side Laterals 3 sets 8-10 reps *light*

(1) Which exercises are taken to full muscular failure and which are not?
(2) Are the assistance exercises and all that heavy or light or taken to failure or what? Help!
(3) I am not going to be able to do floor presses and board presses and a few others - will this be a problem?
(4) When does this routine change? When do I increase in weight? I am missing the structure or something... When should I change the exercises? When should I check my maxes etc.
(5) Should I test my 1RM when the first times I do ME squat/deadlift and ME bench?
(6) For board presses for bench cant I just do half presses instead?
(7) What are JM presses?
(8) Does the days per week and all that ever change?
(9) How long is one Westside cycle?
(10) When should I test my maxes to see if I get stronger?
(11) I am assuming that with speed bench and all that I am going to just go through the motions as fast as possible correct?

Help guys!! :D:D

Kayak_boy
07-25-2002, 01:54 AM
Monstar, you are a crack up, you know that??:D

How many routines is this you've tried??

Well I haven't a clue on Westside, but best of luck with it.:)

MarshallPenn
07-25-2002, 01:55 AM
Is it important for you to reject every suggestion I ever make, but then actually end up doing it anyway?

It's ok though, because I just won the office pool on how long it would take you to drop your current push/pull routine AND the one on when you would get around to trying Westside!

Now, I'm going to make another suggestion. Why not just have no routine, just do what you feel like, when you feel like it and that way, you never have to switch "routines" again? You might find you can stick with that for more than 3 weeks.

MonStar
07-25-2002, 01:56 AM
*positive Westside help only please*

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

MarshallPenn
07-25-2002, 02:03 AM
Mike, this is positive help....

Stop thinking about this crap so much. Do you think it really makes a difference? Without steroids, you're going to hit your genetic limit one way or another most likely, and in the end, you'll end up in a pine box anyway. Plus or minus 5lbs in the meantime doesn't really make much of a difference.

Here's an idea: Try going in to the gym a few times a week and just lifting some good old fashion weight, eating normal food, and then get on with the rest of your life. It's sad to see you so freaking obsessed with bodybuilding.

Try some volunteer work, it might make you feel better about yourself, and then you might find that your workout routine becomes secondary and you actually end up getting the results you've been looking for. In short, try less.

Oh yeah, and throw away Supertraining and read some eastern philosophy instead. Your problem is not with your routine, it's with your state of mind.

I think that's the best Westside advice you're ever going to get.

MonStar
07-25-2002, 02:10 AM
Thanks for the post Marshall, but I am going to give Westside a shot. And I am looking for some responses that have to do with Westside, and Westside only. ;);)

Anyway after rereading Adam's Westside article a few times I feel like I have gotten a LOT more out of it than before.

So with the speed squat, dead, and bench you increase 5% each week and on the 4th week drop back down right? How long do you do this for before you test your 1RM again?

For speed squats do I HAVE to use a box?

Can I change all of my assistance exercises week to week? Would this be a good idea?

What about my ME exercises? It seems good mornings are my best bet for ME squat/deadlift day, and some kind of press is best for ME bench day.

MonStar
07-25-2002, 02:12 AM
Maybe for ME bench day Il do something like this.

Incline BB Presses work up to 1RM
Dips 3 sets 6-8 reps
Skullcrushers 3 sets 5-6 reps
Chins 3 sets
DB Rows 3 sets
BB Curls 3 sets
Laterals 3 sets

Anyways.. is it bad to add biceps work?

I am *TOTALLY* confused with the entire exercises thing I mean should they change pretty regularly or what?

MonStar
07-25-2002, 02:15 AM
Okay I just answered one of my questions in the last part of Adam's article. He says...


On ME day you are training with the conjugated method. With this method you must rotate the ME exercise at most every 3rd week. The reason for this is because you will not get stronger after 3 weeks at or above 90% of your max, you will suffer either mental or physical burnout after about 3 weeks and your strength will actually go down.

So basically for ME exercises after 3 weeks they change. Can you do good mornings, then maybe SLDLSs, then rack pulls, then go back to good mornings?

McBain
07-25-2002, 06:17 AM
did you find the dave tate article at elitefts? i was doing that exactly, once you get the feel for it you can prolly swap whatever you wanted, i found that for me it was a really good starting block.

Paul Stagg
07-25-2002, 07:19 AM
Mike - Promise me you'll stick with this for at least 9 weeks?

See the 9 week routine at elitefts.com, and read everything over there. The periodization bible, part 2, explains pretty much exactly how to set this up.

(1) Which exercises are taken to full muscular failure and which are not?

You do ME lifts to a max rep. On days you use the repetition method for your ME lift, that is taken to failure.

(2) Are the assistance exercises and all that heavy or light or taken to failure or what? Help!

A rep or two shy. Still work hard, and still progress. (Some assistance stuff is taken to a 3 or 5 rep max)

(3) I am not going to be able to do floor presses and board presses and a few others - will this be a problem?

westside is pretty flexible. why can you not do them?

(4) When does this routine change? When do I increase in weight? I am missing the structure or something... When should I change the exercises? When should I check my maxes etc.

Check maxes at the beginning and then as you see fit (competition). 9 weeks is a good place to start. For ME, you want to try to set a new PR every time. Do ME stuff for 3 weeks, then switch. Assistance stuff can change anytime you like.. I like to keep it pretty constant until progression stalls or I find a weakness I need to work on, or get bored.

(5) Should I test my 1RM when the first times I do ME squat/deadlift and ME bench?

Yes.

(6) For board presses for bench cant I just do half presses instead?

Half presses?

(7) What are JM presses?

a combination of a close grip bench and extension

(8) Does the days per week and all that ever change?

Nope.

(9) How long is one Westside cycle?

Forever. There are waves, but other than that, it isn't cycled, really. I'd go with a 9 week program at first to see how you do.

(10) When should I test my maxes to see if I get stronger?

After 9 weeks.

(11) I am assuming that with speed bench and all that I am going to just go through the motions as fast as possible correct?

Yes. You want to move the bar as fast as possible. 3 reps should take 3 seconds or less.

Otter
07-25-2002, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by MarshallPenn
Stop thinking about this crap so much.

Here's an idea: Try going in to the gym a few times a week and just lifting some good old fashion weight, eating normal food, and then get on with the rest of your life.

Well said.

Rome wasn't built in a day man, it took CONSISTENT hard work. If you want to build a city, that's what it takes. It seems like you're trying to build a mobile home.

I'll play devil's advocate here too, here's a site with tons of routines, give 'em a try!!

http://weightrainer.virtualave.net/index.html

:bang:

MonStar
07-25-2002, 08:44 AM
Paul Stagg:

Thank you very much for your post man I really really really appreciate it. I promise Ill stick it out for the 9 weeks, now hold me up to that man. :D:D


See the 9 week routine at elitefts.com, and read everything over there. The periodization bible, part 2, explains pretty much exactly how to set this up.

I saw the sample 9-week program and I didnt like their exercise selection and a few other things so I would end up changing that up big time.


You do ME lifts to a max rep. On days you use the repetition method for your ME lift, that is taken to failure.

Okay you max out on all of your max effort 1RM lifts that makes sense. Please elaborate on the repetition method for ME lifts.. I am totally confused here.

And dont you use 75% of your max on dynamic days after all of the speed sets to work on dynamic speed with heavy weight or something like that?


(5) Should I test my 1RM when the first times I do ME squat/deadlift and ME bench?

Yes.

Okay should I test my squat or deadlift 1RM first? Because whichever I do first is going to seriously impact the other's poundage. If I start with a 450 lbs. squat and then try and go for a 400 lbs. deadlift I dont think its going to happen because my lower back will be fried. Also do I go ahead with a regular ME day after these 1RMs or no? Like I do all my assistance work, correct?

Also about oblique work what else can I do because I dont feel like thickening up my waistline and all that.


(10) When should I test my maxes to see if I get stronger?

After 9 weeks.

So on ME days after 9 weeks Ill just test my bench and squat and all that to see how I have improved?

MonStar
07-25-2002, 08:49 AM
Another question...

Should I test my 1RM on speed days or max effort days? And should I do them at the same time after 9 weeks go by.

Otter
07-25-2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
Also about oblique work what else can I do because I dont feel like thickening up my waistline and all that.

If you don't want to thicken your waistline, powerlifting is not for you.

MonStar
07-25-2002, 08:53 AM
I just dont want a 40 inch waistline thats all, that doesnt mean that I dont want to give Westside a shot. And Ill never be a full blown powerlifter anyway so I am not going to get into that discussion now.

Alex.V
07-25-2002, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Otter


If you don't want to thicken your waistline, powerlifting is not for you.

???? Powerlifting won't thicken the waistline.

Otter
07-25-2002, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Belial
???? Powerlifting won't thicken the waistline.

Ok, maybe not the waistline in terms of pant waist size, but with all the wide stance box squatting and such, won't you get thicker around the hips? I did. My pants fit funny now, they are tighter around my hips so they get all scrunched around my waist. That all started when I started box squatting.

Alex.V
07-25-2002, 09:01 AM
Heavy squatting, especially powerlifting style (wider stance), and deadlifting tends to be heavy on the glutes and lower back. So they'll grow. Honestly, Monstar, I think trying westside is your worst idea yet. I liked the whole back to basics thing.

MonStar
07-25-2002, 09:03 AM
I understand that powerlifting movements can be heavy on the lower back and glutes and all that - that makes sense to me but just thickening the waistline I dont understand.

I am just giving it a shot B, if I dont like it you know that Ill go right back to the basics.

It seems to be OKAY so far I mean not too bad. Why do you have such a problem with it B? Do you think its ineffective or do you just not care for the whole idea?

Alex.V
07-25-2002, 09:04 AM
I think westside is a great program. But I don't think it's going to help you meet your goals. Body composition needs to take a back seat in a program like that. Not that it can't get you big, given enough time, but it's not ideal for it.

MonStar
07-25-2002, 09:06 AM
Belial:

Yeah I understand that maybe its not completely a hypertrophy specific program.. but I think it would be extremely effective for strength gains and all of that wouldnt it? It seems that strength and size go hand in hand.

My goals of decreased bodyfat will come with proper dieting, not necessarily the program that I am using. And increased muscular size will come with time too I believe.

Otter
07-25-2002, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Belial
Heavy squatting, especially powerlifting style (wider stance), and deadlifting tends to be heavy on the glutes and lower back. So they'll grow. Honestly, Monstar, I think trying westside is your worst idea yet. I liked the whole back to basics thing.

But that wide stance also invokes a lot of hip involvement along with the glutes, low back, and hams, which all in turn will thicken your middle (in a positive way of course).

I agree with B, Westside is not your bag. It's a constant progressive routine, and probably not one you'll stick with ... judging only by past performance. Looking at your original routine, you have too much assistance work in there. You're trying to turn Westside into a bodybuilding routine, and it isn't.

Stick to the basics. Lift, eat, sleep, repeat. That's the best routine available.

MonStar
07-25-2002, 09:11 AM
Okay thanks a lot Otter. I can tell that I was trying to make Westside a bodybuilding routine, when it is not. That makes sense to me. Maybe I wont give WSB a shot afterall.

GeneticallyGifted
07-25-2002, 10:46 AM
OMG....OMG...OMG....OMG!!!!!!

YOU ARE CRAZY!!! LITERALLY A LUNEY TOON! WHY NOT JUST INJECT MILLIONS OF CU's OF STERIODS AND DIREUTICS(SP). SO THAT YOU GET THE GAINS THAT YOU WANT.IT WON'T MATTER WHAT ROUTINE YOU DO, AND HOW LONG YOU DO IT.

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING TO HAPPEN THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR WORK OUT EVERY OTHER WEEK?

YOU GIVE OUT PROMISES LIKE THEY ARE FOOD STAMPS!! STOP MAKING PROMISES...JUST SAY THAT YOU WILL TRY!! YOUR WORD MUST BE SH*T WITH ALOT OF PEOPLE...MAN, GET IT TOGETHER.

IF SH*T WORKS DON'T FIX IT!

sorry for the outburst but I just don't understand what is going on with you. Maybe the reason you aren't seeing the gains that you want is because you are not patient, and don't stick to one workout. Where is your girlfriend...I need to tell her to put the SMACK down on you.

I like you but you startin' to get to me.

GG
Formly Known As AFreakyMutation

Paul Stagg
07-25-2002, 11:13 AM
I didn't like the 9 week selection at first either.

Your routine has too much stuff in it. Read Tate's periodization article, and follow that program design if you don't like the 9 week program.

Sometimes, for your ME bench, you'll do high rep (20) dumbell work. Those sets are taken to failure.

After your DE work, SOMETIMES you do heavy singles or doubles. They used to suggest 10% of your sets. I do every other week. Look through Adam's journal and latty's journal to see what they do. These sets are not a strain.

Test the squat max alone, then the following week, test the deadlift max - OR - just test all three in one day, take a couple of days off, and start the program. You need to know your bench and squat max... the deadlift you can estimate and be OK.

You can't look at this program worried about what you will look like. Do assistance stuff you need to improve your lifts.

DaCypher
07-25-2002, 02:41 PM
What happened to the back to basics philosophy? :rolleyes:

PowerManDL
07-25-2002, 03:06 PM
Paul, he's going to kill himself with Westside. Well, that would be if he managed to actually stick to it for more than a week, which he won't.

Just for everyone to know, Westside is a POWERLIFTING routine. This means that its one and only goal is to increase the lifter's 1RM in the squat, bench press, and deadlift. It is NOT to improve hypertrophy; it is NOT to improve appearance.

It is very very easy for natural lifters to overtrain on Westside, if you don't keep track of the weekly volume.

Mike, I really don't think this is what you want. But what the hell? You'll have a new routine next week anyway.

Joe Black
07-25-2002, 03:13 PM
I know MarshallPenn's advice might of seemed very critical but man it hit the nail on the head.

You probably are causing yourself major muscle loss by trying to worry and evaluate everything 24 x 7.

put a 3-4 day split together, base it on compund movements, eat well and try and CHILL OUT ;)

TerryRay
07-26-2002, 02:53 PM
MonStar,

I don't see anything wrong with being the basic teenager who changes the workout routine ever so frequently. To be honest with you I think there are others more like you than not, however, you take the time to tell others your every move.

teen1216
07-26-2002, 03:33 PM
if you do do WS, then this article's example of volume might be better for a natural.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/dtate.htm

MonStar
07-26-2002, 04:16 PM
Thanks guys but I am sticking with my basic push/pull/legs plan. Strength just keeps going up and up and up.