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View Full Version : Protein Diet = Fad. Me = Lacking Energy.



Yaz
05-29-2001, 04:58 PM
I've been reading that protein pretty well sucks as a source of energy. And I've been eating quite dominantly, Protein as my main macronutrient. Energy levels are low, craving levels are high... and I just can't seem to press on the same in my workouts. So I was reading in the library today, some books... and came across an interesting topic. What if you ate primarly carb sources to fuel, and ate just enough protein to be used to repair the muscle. It stated that a 175 lb. Male can carry roughly 1,600 calories worth of glycogen in the muscle. Interesting, I thought. But anyway. I feel flabby, blahblahblah. You get my drift. I was thinking of experimenting on this point here.

2000 Calories -

20% Protein, Roughly 100g, Enough to repair hypothetically.
20% Fats, Roughly 44g, Enough to Satiate the body each meal.
60% Carbohydrates, Roughly 300g, Timed on energy needs

-

Low glycemic carbs always, except post workout. It seems very hypocritical, that people always state that it is "Calories in VS Calories out", but yet still want to limit the intake of Carbohydrates considerably. Why cut down on your fuel and fatigue yourself, if you're still taking in the same amount of calories?

Just some questions to ponder there, I guess. In a way it does make sense. I guess since protein diets have, always will be probably been the bodybuilding "fad", per se... it would be hard to see it any other way. The body will be more bent on using that carb energy for fuel, instead of the protein energy ... which has proven itself full of suck, at least for me. :rolleyes:

the doc
05-29-2001, 07:12 PM
your lethargic because you are not using fat for energy. This must happen if you lower your carb intake for you to feel satiated and have energy. Your probably eating so much damn protein your still buring glucose (produced from gluconeogenesis caused by your high amino acids levels spiking insulin)

If your going to drop carbs you must increase fat. Drop your ratio of protein to fat. this will cause you to use more fat for fuel.

For all but 4 meals of the week i eat only protein and fat and i have more energy then i ever had on that damn insulin/glucagon roller coaster.

Taras
05-29-2001, 07:34 PM
Yaz,

You make a lot of good points, but I would recommend more protein. There has been some research in the past few years re protein requirements for athletes (including bodybuilders), most notably by PW Lemon at The University of Western Ontario in London. He published a review article last year titled Beyond the zone: protein needs of active individuals. The reference is J Am Coll Nutr 2000 Oct;19 Suppl(5):513S-521S. If you can't find the journal, you can find an abstract by searching internet grateful med, or you could E-mail him at plemon@julian.uwo.ca., and maybe he could send you a copy. Anyway, he states in the summary that "Based on laboratory measures, daily protein requirements are increased by perhaps as much as 100% vs recommendations for sedentary individuals (1.6-1.8 vs. 0.8 g/kg)." He goes on to say that "Many questions remain to be resolved," so he isn't claiming to have the final answer yet. Another good reference, which takes into account Lemon's research, is Sport Specific Nutrition by Susan M. Kleiner. You can access this at www.physicalmag.com. (It's in their archives.)

I gave you these references since you seem to be seriously looking for reliable advice about diet. Obviously, not everyone is going to agree with the recommendations of Lemon or Kleiner, but I think they would be good starting points, especially the article by Kleiner, because its geared more toward real-world advice and it's probably a lot easier to get a copy of.

Cackerot69
05-29-2001, 08:41 PM
"I've been reading that protein pretty well sucks as a source of energy."

As far as energy goes, protein and carbs are the same. both must be in the form of glucose to be used as energy.

"And I've been eating quite dominantly, Protein as my main macronutrient. Energy levels are low, craving levels are high... and I just can't seem to press on the same in my workouts."

The protein has nothing to do with it. Energy levels being low, cravings high, and not being able to press in your workouts seems like overtraining to me. Just my first thought.

"So I was reading in the library today, some books... and came across an interesting topic. What if you ate primarly carb sources to fuel, and ate just enough protein to be used to repair the muscle. It stated that a 175 lb. Male can carry roughly 1,600 calories worth of glycogen in the muscle. Interesting, I thought. But anyway. I feel flabby, blahblahblah. You get my drift. I was thinking of experimenting on this point here."

Well, more carbs = more energy needs to be burned to prevent fat storage. When glycogen stores are saturated, and energy needs are met, there is only one place for the carbs to go - fat stores.

Protein will only be converted to glucose if it is needed to fill energy requirements normally met by carbs.

"2000 Calories -

20% Protein, Roughly 100g, Enough to repair hypothetically.
20% Fats, Roughly 44g, Enough to Satiate the body each meal.
60% Carbohydrates, Roughly 300g, Timed on energy needs"

Not enough protein. Period.

"Low glycemic carbs always, except post workout. It seems very hypocritical, that people always state that it is "Calories in VS Calories out", but yet still want to limit the intake of Carbohydrates considerably. Why cut down on your fuel and fatigue yourself, if you're still taking in the same amount of calories?"

It's true that the main factor is calories in vs calories out. But if protein requirements are not met, you will lose muscle regardless. Higher protein intake has been shown time and time again to be superior to higher carb intake for fat loss. Higher protein = higher protein synthesis (% will decrease)...higher protein = higher metabolism. Your body can get glucose from protein, but it sure as hell can't get protein from glucose.

"Just some questions to ponder there, I guess. In a way it does make sense. I guess since protein diets have, always will be probably been the bodybuilding "fad", per se... it would be hard to see it any other way."

Maybe because it works? The food pyramid was great in theory, but it sure doesn't work well...and has been proven numerous times to be an inferior method.

"The body will be more bent on using that carb energy for fuel, instead of the protein energy ... which has proven itself full of suck, at least for me."

Protein energy IS carb energy!!!

the doc
05-29-2001, 09:30 PM
well said cackerot!

big calvin
05-30-2001, 02:01 PM
im leaning to what yaz is saying. this is the way im looking at it:

1g protein per lbm is a good place to be and u wouldnt need more. and for those who say u need more protein to make muscle , muscle is like 70% water and like 30% amino acids, so when a higher % of your diet comes from carbs they hold more water(3g water for ever 1g carb) wouldnt that mean that a diet of say 50-60% carbs, 20-30% protein, 20% fat be better for maintaining and gaining muscle tissue?

if your doing low carbs, high fat/high protein , wouldnt that decrease muscle tissue, even if u have a carb load meal like in NHE, its only like 2 carb load meals a week , when the rest of the week your eating in essents 30% for muscle tissue.

whats your thoughts on this?

Alex.V
05-30-2001, 02:27 PM
That the other 70% is water, not carbs. ;)

the doc
05-30-2001, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by big calvin
im leaning to what yaz is saying. this is the way im looking at it:

1g protein per lbm is a good place to be and u wouldnt need more. and for those who say u need more protein to make muscle , muscle is like 70% water and like 30% amino acids, so when a higher % of your diet comes from carbs they hold more water(3g water for ever 1g carb) wouldnt that mean that a diet of say 50-60% carbs, 20-30% protein, 20% fat be better for maintaining and gaining muscle tissue?

if your doing low carbs, high fat/high protein , wouldnt that decrease muscle tissue, even if u have a carb load meal like in NHE, its only like 2 carb load meals a week , when the rest of the week your eating in essents 30% for muscle tissue.

whats your thoughts on this?


as for the first part, i don't understand, wouldn't just drinking a lot of water solve this issue?

In NHE it is not a high protein, but moderate. One consumes enough protein such that there are always fresh aminos entering the blood stream from the digestive tract. High protein consumption encouages the use of glucose as fuel-via conversion of protein to glucose in gluconeogenesis- instead of using fat as fuel

big calvin
05-30-2001, 02:44 PM
what i meant was carbs make u hold water, so if i drink more water with carbs , more of that water would be stored then if i ate water with protein...i think, im not sure , this is just how i see it....

Avatar
05-30-2001, 02:52 PM
Yeah but calvin your muscles may look full but that is only temporary. The fullness will go down when you stop retaining that water. Its almost the same theory as carb loading before a bodybuilding show. Its to make your muscles look fuller. Your not actually packing on extra muscle by eating the extra carbohydrates.

Taras
05-30-2001, 07:26 PM
It's the glycogen in the muscle that "holds" water. It doesn't matter whether the glycogen is synthesized from dietary carbohydrate or dietary protein, X grams of muscle glycogen are still going to hold Y grams of water.

Did anybody check out the article by Susan Kleiner? I know that a lot of bodybuilders would probably recommend somewhat more protein and less carbohydrate than she does, but I think her recommendations are a good starting point. Any comments?

Tackleberry
05-31-2001, 07:49 AM
Is susan's article on the net anywhere? if so, could you post the address? thanx

Taras
05-31-2001, 07:09 PM
Go to www. physicalmag.com. Scroll down the "FIND" window to "Diet" and click Go. It's currently number 6 on the list (Sport Specific Nutrition). Just click on the title to bring up the article.