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raniali
08-21-2002, 02:31 PM
...not in reference to yo-yo dieting at all...

I can think of arguments on both sides here, but just interested in a consensus of opinions:

If one is trying to lean out and maintaining calories below maintenance is necessary...what is the effect (if any) of inconsistent daily calorie intake?? Such as... two days around 1800cal, one day 1300 cal, one day 2200, two days 1500 and so on semi-randomly. For this exercise, lets assume 1800 is an ideal dieting deficit, f/p/c ratios are consistent and that training is not a variable.

This is not iso-caloric dieting either as that is scheduled and controlled calorie cycles.

To get the argument started, I have two main thoughts:

1. Cycling calories is shock to the body thereby producing better dieting results as your metabolism never gets used to a set-point.
2. Dropping too low will shut down metabolism as the body fears a 'famine' and that more fat will be gained when returning to the ideal dieting deficit or higher.

Your turn.....?

Puttn
08-21-2002, 02:40 PM
i think yo - yoing the carbs is a good idea... and with that the calories will go down, but as for taking in less protein i dont suggest... so 4 days do around 300 carbs (again this is just an example) and then 2 days do 190 carbs

DcK
08-21-2002, 02:42 PM
Good post. The topic your writing about is actually what Lyle McDonald thought a long time ago and later developed it into the CKD or TKD diet. Thus, instead of fluctuating the calories on a daily basis, you do it about once a week.

The reason most people plateau with reduction of calories is because of the set point, which involves alot of things, one of the primaries being the hormone Leptin. Cycling your calories right can help avoid this problem and prevent the plateau.

raniali
08-21-2002, 02:49 PM
DcK-

Funny you mention keto diets ... cuz that is what I have been following for some time now. But that only adds another dimension to the problem really. Take a typical CKD/TKD - and then start randomly cycling CALORIES (not carbs) throughout the 5-10 day cycle. Does this promote an enhanced state of ketosis or slows metabolism??

DcK
08-21-2002, 04:56 PM
Well, I don't think cycling the calories up and down while your in ketosis will have much affect, especially just for a few days both up and down. Interesting idea though, I'll have to really think about it some more.

I've know people who've stopped progressing using the Keto cycles, or even just on a straight prolonged Keto diet. There's ways you can get back to progressing is to to change things up. For example, if your on a keto cyclic, intead of a 2-3 carb up day every 7 days, do a 1 day carb up every 10 days! There are tons of other ways, just depends on what the person is doing when they hit the wall.

Puttn
08-21-2002, 05:47 PM
hmmm why would you wanna go all the way into ketosis why not do a slower diet where you still gain muscle and lose lil fat by eating only eating 200 calories more than your maintnance needs and doing cardio on off days... youll lose the fat and keep more of your muscles

raniali
08-21-2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Puttn
hmmm why would you wanna go all the way into ketosis why not do a slower diet where you still gain muscle and lose lil fat by eating only eating 200 calories more than your maintnance needs and doing cardio on off days... youll lose the fat and keep more of your muscles

first - because ketosis is a drastic (but effective) way to diet

second - this isn't even the issue i was trying to address ... inconsistent calorie intake is something that i have been thinking about for awhile, regardless of what type of eating regimen you are following. Is it good, bad or neutral?

DcK
08-21-2002, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by raniali


second - this isn't even the issue i was trying to address ... inconsistent calorie intake is something that i have been thinking about for awhile, regardless of what type of eating regimen you are following. Is it good, bad or neutral?

IMHO I would have to vote for good! Yet, the bottom line is still going to be NET cummulative calories expended versus net cummulative calories consumed.

Wizard
08-21-2002, 07:03 PM
It's placed between good and neutral..

I believe that it's effective but,
let's say that you consume 1700cals the first day,then 1900,then 1600 etc.. finally all that matters is again the negative balance.
If it really exists (in a given period of time) then you have certainly lost some weight.

Following this method,may help you lose some more weight (because your metabolism will not stack up to a point) but the presumption is still the negative ballance.

Puttn
08-22-2002, 06:29 AM
how do you guys come up with the estimate of how many calories you need... to diet do you do around bodyweight x12
to maintain is it bodyweight x 15 to gain is it x17 or 20?

raniali
08-24-2002, 12:56 PM
ok ... sorry to revive this ... but continued thinking (oh no!) and am interested in thoughts on you-yo calories ....but to EXTREMES!
Hypothetical person with maintenance calories @ 2000cal/day....
1 day: 2400
1 day: 1800
2 day: 1200
1 day: 2700
1 day: 2000
1 day: 1500
and so on

Does this type of extreme in daily calories have a good/negative/neutral effect when trying to lean out? Does the body fear the extreme drops in calories and shut down after 2 days ... or is this too short for adaptation and the body continues burning fuel at the same rate?

Thoughts/feelings/opinions?

DcK
08-24-2002, 08:01 PM
Well, I' don't think your body has the ability to set point adapt in 1 day. So, the idea of switching days like that isn't going to make a big difference in BMR IMO.

If you look at maintenance, total calories for 6 days (assuming 2,000/day) would be 12,000. Thus, you add up all your calories at your looking at 11,600. So, you have a weekly deficit of only 400 calories. So I don't see any difference in that than someone just intaking a steady 1934 calories each day (instead of the 2,000).

Another problem is with the extremes IMO. The extreme low's and high's. On the extreme highs, you may have a chance of spiking insulin to much and shuttling more nutritent into fat cells (although it would depend on macro ratios). On the extreme low's you may have a problem of getting your minimum of 1g/lb of protein intake.