I am getting good gains time to Juice But...

[bigkevin20]

I have been doing alot of reading and frankly I am not willing to deal with all the side effects if I did get any at all. Not willing to try but a quick 20 to 30 pounds in 12 weeks sounds great.
So my question is what about the legal steroids like growth factor 1, Juice Pack,WINNI - V, D-BOL. Are they some thing i could use and se positive perment gains. The side effect look to be littl to none.

[BUFF STUFF]

growth factor1???:rolleyes:
aghhhhh!! I tried that i felt stronger when i stoped using it. It made me feel weaker!
What side effect scare you the most kev?

arimidex or liquidex with clomid & hcg should block any gyno and help get natural T levels back, as for acne,hairloss, agression and your nuts shrinking not much can be done

D-Bol is a steroid (Dianabol) and has many posative muscle building properties, but also many side effect properties too

[zwarrior99]

Umm looks like you went to this site huh http://www.legalsteroids.com/ ? All the junk there dont work. its legal for that reason. Its just prohormones, advertised as real gear. If you wanna do prohormones go with 1-ad and 4-ad. If you wanna go with real gear, you gotta do more reasearch.

[LAM]

for the price of those crapy pro-hormones you can get the real stuff that is "guaranteed" to bring results with known side-effects.

pro-hormones are hit or miss when it comes to results and the side-effects are not truely known as they are so new and no reputable 3rd party test lab is even going to waste the time on the research needed to conduct proper medical studies on that issue...

[Tadger]

Effectiveness has nothing to do with legality. Anyway, what makes you think those prohormones are going to have fewer side effects than straight up AAS? Even if they did work just as advertised, they're gonna end up as test or stanozolol or methendrostenolone anyway... how would that yield fewer side effects than just using the real deal? In real life, those prohormones tend to cause just as many sides as the real thing, usually with nowhere near the same benefits. That's the thing that most people fail to realize.

[galileo]

King DS, Sharp RL, Vukovich MD.
Effect of oral androstenedione on serum testosterone and adaptations to resistance training in young men: a randomized controlled trial.
JAMA.
1999;281:2020-2028.

Results
Serum free and total testosterone concentrations were not affected by short- or long-term androstenedione administration. Serum estradiol concentration (mean [SEM]) was higher (P<.05) in the androstenedione group after 2 (310 [20] pmol/L), 5 (300 [30] pmol/L), and 8 (280 [20] pmol/L) weeks compared with presupplementation values (220 [20] pmol/L). The serum estrone concentration was significantly higher (P<.05) after 2 (153 [12] pmol/L) and 5 (142 [15] pmol/L) weeks of androstenedione supplementation compared with baseline (106 [11] pmol/L). Knee extension strength increased significantly (P<.05) and similarly in the placebo (770 [55] N vs 1095 [52] N) and androstenedione (717 [46] N vs 1024 [57] N) groups. The increase of the mean cross-sectional area of type 2 muscle fibers was also similar in androstenedione (4703 [471] vs 5307 [604] mm2; P<.05) and placebo (5271 [485] vs 5728 [451] mm2; P<.05) groups. The significant (P<.05) increases in lean body mass and decreases in fat mass were also not different in the androstenedione and placebo groups. In the androstenedione group, the serum high-density lipoprotein cholesterol concentration was reduced after 2 weeks (1.09 [0.08] mmol/L [42 (3) mg/dL] vs 0.96 [0.08] mmol/L [37 (3) mg/dL]; P<.05) and remained low after 5 and 8 weeks of training and supplementation.

Conclusions Androstenedione supplementation does not increase serum testosterone concentrations or enhance skeletal muscle adaptations to resistance training in normotestosterogenic young men and may result in adverse health consequences.

[bigkevin20]

thanks for all tis info its so confusing I just got a list of prices and have no idea what I am lookin at. Where do i start is one cycle enuff. All I want is the first 20 to 30 pounds then im set I never plan on stopping lifting I have mad it a part of my life. But I need advise for a beginer and I am sure this ahs been asked a thousand times.

[LAM]

bigkevin...they don't work. it is the serum testosterone (unbound) levels that you want to be elevated. they do not accomplish that to any measureable degree.

don't waste your money.

[zwarrior99]

Do some research.. Save your money.. And then hit real gear.

[Tadger]

Indeed.