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Chris Rodgers
06-01-2001, 07:49 PM
Just wondering what kinds you guys eat and how often. I don't care for most veggies. All I can really eat is perhaps a basic salad(lettuce, tomato, carrots). Many people say how important they are for optimal digestion.

Also, how about fruit? I like a lot of fruit, but figured most is just high in sugar. Any ideas on how to increase my veggies?

Cackerot69
06-01-2001, 08:04 PM
Fruit = fructose = Evil.

Veggies make me gag, absolutely discusting.

Therefore - no fruit or veggies for me :)

big calvin
06-01-2001, 08:07 PM
same here...hate them... but i do eat natural apple sauce...i just eat them cause there low GI and some fiber and very high water content...

Franco
06-02-2001, 12:30 AM
Cauliflower and broccoli for me:)

body
06-02-2001, 03:59 AM
veg and fruit are good for health. and have many chemicals in them besides vits and minerals that are good for your health. however as long as you are not deficent in vit and mineral they surply in them then eating them will offer no ergogenic benefit. so not need for BB/powerlifting. but needed for health you call its your health.

the doc
06-02-2001, 04:16 AM
broccoli, asaparagus, onions, lettuce, green beans, sugar snap peas, bell peppers and chilis, spinach , so many mmmmm...

no fruit though. Not needed when most veggies have way more antioxidants with no fructose

MWB
06-02-2001, 06:14 AM
My two favorites are brocolli and romaine lettuce. They are both high fiber and fill you up so they are great for dieting.

The_Chicken_Daddy
06-02-2001, 08:55 AM
I eat fruit everyday.


I rememeber Cack telling me in the chat that if i eat fruit i will give my children diabeties...or something silly like that anyway...

Manipul8r
06-02-2001, 10:05 AM
I eat brocolli(yuck), celery(yuck), things like that. nothing at all good about them, but very fibrous(this word may be fictional, it means containing fiber). :) :D

Cackerot69
06-02-2001, 10:56 AM
"I rememeber Cack telling me in the chat that if i eat fruit i will give my children diabeties...or something silly like that anyway..."

I didn't say that fool! I said the increased sugar consumption of americans appears to be correlated to an increased rate of diabeties. Nothing you have to worry about.

Fructose should be avoided for a few reasons, but it has nothing to do with diabeties!

The_Chicken_Daddy
06-02-2001, 11:22 AM
Just as well I ain't american than eh Justin?:)

Taras
06-02-2001, 12:18 PM
I agree with Body. If your goals are success in bodybuilding or powerlifting you can achieve them without fruits and vegetables. However, fruits and vegetables are loaded with nutrients called phytochemicals. It appears that they probably aren't all that important in the short term, but they appear to help prevent or at least delay some of the degenerative problems that happen when we get older.

Spiderman
06-02-2001, 01:15 PM
I LOVE cooked Broccli...mmmm...Yummy! :D Add to that cooked Cauliflower, raw tomaotoes (I'll only eat certain ones, and I eat'em like an apple.), cooked spinach, green beans, bell peppers...wow I can't list'em all...
As for fruit... man I haven't touched fruit in a looooooooong time.

Tackleberry
06-02-2001, 04:29 PM
I love fruits and veggies and I won't give em up!! FOR ME, their positives far outweigh the negatives.

Maki Riddington
06-02-2001, 04:55 PM
I love fruit, mmmmmmm. I like all veggies even though I don't eat enough of them.
Only time I will limit my fruit intake will be when I am cutting back on cals to lose some excess BF.

big calvin
06-02-2001, 05:24 PM
what do u guys think about juicing(no not roids) i mean "the juice man"...lol...

my dad started it and hes diabetic, after a couple day he stoped using insulin and all the rest of his pills and felt great, but then he cheated and his blood sugar went up to 370 so he had to inject.

what i was thinking, say doing a juice drink and then throw in some whey protein. do u think thats good?

The_Chicken_Daddy
06-03-2001, 07:33 AM
I'm like Maki - I eat fruit but when i diet i will swap fruit for veggies.

mds_79
06-03-2001, 07:59 AM
i try and eat alot of fruits and veggies. brocolli, onions, garlic, tomatoes, apples, bananas, carrots, etc.
fruits are natures candy!

vox
06-03-2001, 05:51 PM
I too eat as much fruits and veggies as possible. For me it is better to snack on them rather than junk food. When I eat potatoes I try to eat sweet potatoes because they are a lot better for you, not as cheap though.

ElPietro
06-06-2001, 09:45 AM
Steak is the only food group I enjoy. :D

Hock
06-06-2001, 02:04 PM
Raw Spinach for the fiber and also celery.:)

The_Chicken_Daddy
06-06-2001, 02:41 PM
Celery is the only food that has negative calories...

Tryska
06-11-2001, 04:57 PM
I eat almost all of them....

Greens: Red Lettuce, Green Lettuce, Romaine, Frise, Curly Endive, Spinach, Raddicchio

Veggies:

Staples: sweet potatoes, onions, tomatoes, cucumbers, red and green bell peppers, broccoli, eggplant, zucchini

and then whatever yummy new ones happen to be in season.

Fruits: bananas, navel oranges, watermelon, cherries, strawberries, pineapple.

I don't eat all of these everyday.....but i gits my phytochemicals, let me tell ya.

YatesNightBlade
06-12-2001, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Cackerot69
Fruit = fructose = Evil.



and why ??????

Cackerot69
06-12-2001, 02:28 AM
Well, the fact is that fructose is four times as efficient at replenishing liver glycogen than glucose. So given these facts you may decide to use fructose selectively to help promote fat loss and to replenish liver glycogen after workouts. But, as you've probably guessed by now, it isn't quite that simple. When fructose is absorbed in the gut it is taken directly to the liver where one of two things happens to it: It is either converted into liver glycogen or it is converted into fat (to be stored!). If liver glycogen stores are NOT full then it will be converted mostly into liver glycogen but if liver glycogen stores are full it will be converted into fat. So now you're thinking "I can still use fructose after my workout, Iíll just have to be careful of how much I use, so as not to spark fat storage". Hold on, don't get carried away with the fruits just yet (they're high in fructose - hence the name fructose), it isn't that easy either. Remember earlier I stated that glucose absorbed in the gut passes right through the liver and is carried by the blood stream to the muscles (where it can be stored as muscle glycogen)? Well, that all depends on the glycogen level state of the liver. Itís like the body knows whatís going on in it various parts. If muscle glycogen is low and so is liver glycogen then the process will go ahead as described (glucose by-passing the liver and being carried to the muscles to be stored as glycogen), hence glucose is, in a way, targeted at muscle glycogen. If, on the other hand, liver glycogen stores are Ďfullí then an enzyme kicks in and starts converting the glucose into FAT! So when that starts happening weíll end up storing bodyfat at an accelerated rated and muscle glycogen still wonít be replenished optimally no matter how much glucose we take in. Clearly, we donít want to replenish liver glycogen until muscle glycogen stores are already full. There goes the idea of using fructose to selectively replenish liver glycogen - If we did that weíd hamper the process of muscle glycogen replenishment and also create an environment conducive to bodyfat storage. So how should we approach liver glycogen replenishment? Well, after all muscle glycogen stores are replenished blood-glucose will be converted by the liver and stored as glycogen (then after liver glycogen levels are restored any excess will be stored as fat). So if youíre eating enough good quality carbs, in general, liver glycogen stores will be taken care of - and muscle glycogen kept at optimal levels. Donít forget, the liver can also produce glycogen from several other dietary factors. Take home lessons: Donít go crazy on the fruits (fructose) and, from what we covered earlier, eat some good quality complex carbs every 3-4 hours (this will keep liver glycogen from becoming exhausted because blood sugar is never allowed to fall too low and it will also keep insulin levels consistent).Incidently, sucrose (table sugar) is made from one molecule of glucose connected to one molecule of fructose. It has been suspected that this is why table sugar makes people fat - it is half fructose, and the other half (glucose) rapidly raises insulin levels. The perfect fat promoting molecule.

YatesNightBlade
06-12-2001, 03:54 AM
bollox

Cackerot69
06-15-2001, 01:59 AM
Here's some more bollox for ya...

"Why fructose could slow fat burning by 38%

Meals high in fructose can reduce fat 'burning' when eaten after exercise.

Researchers from Indiana's Purdue University tested 14 overweight individuals following a 40-minute workout. Subjects were split into two groups, and assigned to follow either a normal or low calorie diet. After six days on each diet, they were then given a meal containing either 50 grams of glucose, or a similar quantity of fructose.

The table below shows how much fat was burned during the three hours after exercise:

Diet Fat oxidation* after fructose Fat oxidation after glucose
Normal calorie 18 grams 29 grams
Low calorie 28 grams 29 grams

* Fat oxidation refers to the use of fat for energy

As you can see, there was no real difference in oxidation rates during the low calorie diet. However, when subjects were tested following the normal diet, fat oxidation was 38% lower after the high fructose meal.

Fructose is found in fruits and honey. When fructose and glucose are bonded together, they form sucrose -- comonly known as table sugar. Billed as a "natural" sweetener, fructose is often recommended as a replacement for other sugars in the diet -- often being included in weight loss drinks. Since the mid-1970s, high fructose corn syrup has served as a substitute sweetener for sucrose, leading to an increase in fructose consumption in the U.S. diet.

"Fructose might be 'natural' but large quantities are not", cautions Dr. Eric Newsholme, a Reader in Cellular Nutrition at the University of Oxford. "Too much fructose", he continues "is probably best avoided". Previous studies have also shown that fructose is up to eight times more lipogenic* than glucose.

*lipos is a Greek term meaning "fat", while -genic refers to "the production of"

Although this isn't meant to put you off fruit, this study does show that high levels of fructose offers no real benefit (compared to glucose) during a low calorie diet.

Reference

Tittelbach, T.J., Mattes, R.D., & Gretebeck, R.J. (2000). Post-exercise substrate utlisation after a high glucose vs. high fructose meal during negative energy balance in the obese. Obesity Research, 8, 496-505"

YatesNightBlade
06-15-2001, 02:02 AM
Bollox

Cackerot69
06-15-2001, 02:19 AM
*Throws rock at Yates*

Budiak
06-15-2001, 03:26 AM
You and your "facts".

I got your facts right here *waves fist*!

Cackerot69
06-16-2001, 02:24 AM
*Steals Budiak's bible and hits him in the face with it*

YatesNightBlade
06-16-2001, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by Cackerot69
*Throws rock at Yates*

Do ya mind Im trying to eat an apple here !!!!

The_Chicken_Daddy
06-17-2001, 05:36 PM
rah rah rah...

big calvin
06-18-2001, 05:32 PM
well heres an artical for fruits....fruit is good! (http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_95forbid.html)

Cackerot69
06-18-2001, 05:38 PM
LOL at Calvin for posting the T-mag article.

T-mag wrote that article so they could get away with putting the cheapest/worst carbs in their MRP.

That article is bollox.

big calvin
06-18-2001, 07:51 PM
what do they put in there MRP? sucrose?

well i know one thing cackerot, im diabetic and try to see what carbs increase my glucose or not, forget all that fact BULL, i know i can make a choice in either eating a couple of apples or eating some brown rice...ohh even though the brown rice is complex and the apple is simple i know the apples dont cause such a rush as the brown rice. so u keep eating complex carbs and ill keep eating what i know doesnt push my insulin out of control.....

ohh and one thing i think those reasearch stuff u look up are from fructose crystallin(something like that) which they use in supplements and "diet" products but fructose form fruits arent like that i mean who the hell gets fat from fruit? now i know i cant tell u more then a couple of people that eat rice and are really obese( like me, my brother, my dad) we hardlly eat fruit(im trying now) but i didnt gain weight from eating apples, pears, mangoes, i got it from eating rice, fries, coke.

dont take this as like im mad or what ever, i respect u but some things may work very well for your body but for me i go with what i can tell wont put me with a blood glucose 3-4 times the normal....

Cackerot69
06-18-2001, 07:58 PM
Yes, we should all just forget about all the facts and rely on opinions.

Hahahaha.....

Yaz
06-18-2001, 08:06 PM
Yo C!

I don't think it was the rice that did it. I think it was the fries and the coke. tuttut

big calvin
06-18-2001, 08:36 PM
yaz: :D

cack:
bro if some stupid doctor says u should eat crap cause it has growth factors, u gonna do it? i mean there are documents and studys and facts that the us food pyramide is the best way of eat, u gonna eat like that? no causeu know better.. so yeah i say the F facts!!! the only "fact" is testing yourself! not what some stupid doctor or some gym wannabe guru or somthing....

Maki Riddington
06-18-2001, 09:07 PM
Big C, I like that...... Wannabebig Guru.:)

I 've found eating fruit while dieting is fine.

Mr A faxed me a study done on BB's and their diets.
The diet that was used was high in fruit and it was used pre contest. Worked well.

Cackerot69
06-18-2001, 09:13 PM
"The diet that was used was high in fruit and it was used pre contest. Worked well."

...Maybe because there was a calorie deficit?

Maki Riddington
06-18-2001, 10:00 PM
It was based on a 200 pound male who was consuming if I remember correctly between 3000-3200 cals.
I'll have to check.

The whole point was that you said, Fruit = fructose = Evil.
As well as.....
"Although this isn't meant to put you off fruit, this study does show that high levels of fructose offers no real benefit (compared to glucose) during a low calorie diet".

I really don't think fructose is evil.
Maybe you meant something else?

Cackerot69
06-18-2001, 10:03 PM
Fruit is evil.

Maki Riddington
06-18-2001, 10:07 PM
I gotcha.:)

YatesNightBlade
06-19-2001, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by Cackerot69
Fruit is evil.

Bollox

Tryska
06-19-2001, 06:41 AM
Hey calvin....

i've got to ask a question....considering your diabetes, are you saying simple sugars actually manage your insulin better then complex carbs do?? that seems so against the nature of how i know things to work....:confused:

YatesNightBlade
06-19-2001, 06:49 AM
I think Calvin was talking about Fructose. Although classed as a simple sugar the body finds it harder to convert making it acceptable for diabetics to eat. The fibre also slows the digestion process down.

Tryska
06-19-2001, 07:02 AM
ah...that makes sense then...also explains splenda.

thanks!

Cackerot69
06-19-2001, 03:48 PM
Bollox.

Tryska
06-19-2001, 03:56 PM
I don't know what to do with you Mr. Rot69.....your against fruits..your against cardio on an empty stomach, it's just a cryin' shame....;)


j/k

The_Chicken_Daddy
06-19-2001, 04:16 PM
Cack's against everything - I bet his bedroom door has a sign saying 'no girls allowed'...

Tryska
06-19-2001, 06:12 PM
oh god..he's the Anti-Cack.....

Alex.V
06-19-2001, 08:18 PM
It's times like this I wish the goddam literature would agree. One study says this. Another says that. Here I sit, frantically trying to create unified theories, completely frustrated.

Are there guidelines that should be followed? Given the potential problems with fructose, i see no need to include fruits as part of my diet. I get my simple carbs, soluble fiber, and micronutrients from other sources, so I see no need to eat an extra hundred calories of pure sugar here or there.

It's almost a silly conversation, since people tend to disregard studies based on the old "Studies are like as*holes, everyone has one" adage. Why are people disagreeing with cack? Do you all not believe what he says? He offers proof (?), everyone offers anecdotal responses "It hasn't hurt me, or other BBs, blah blah". Does that make him right? Maybe. Could he still be wrong? Also a possibility.

But in the end, does it really matter? There are too many other important issues to worry about right now, such as whether electronic analysis methods can even remotely predict muscular hypertrophy, or where the fock I put my wallet. Cack's presented a theory. He backed it up. Everyone has chosen to disregard it.
Therefore, conversation over. Maki, go ask Mel Siff. :D



...Veggies on the other hand.... MMmmmmm.

breeze
06-19-2001, 08:31 PM
Belial what about the scientific and medical proof that says a diet rich in veggies and fruits are good for you. It wards off cancer, helps in weight management, etc, etc. How healthy can you be if you don't eat veggies and fruit. I would say not very healthy. The study Cack mentioned, the researchers probably used fructose from concentrate and not fruits. The source of the fructose will have a big impact on how it reacts in the body. Take my word on that.

Alex.V
06-19-2001, 08:38 PM
Last line of my post, bub.


I thrive on veggies. :D

But fruit.....I haven't seen conclusive proof that fruit is a necessary part of a human diet. Some human cultures haven't even TOUCHED fructose, and I believe humans can be healthy without it. Not to say others can't eat their fruit; I seriously doubt it will cause obesity or kill anybody, no matter what the studies say. Still, there's no space for it in my current diet, and that's all there is to it.

Maki Riddington
06-19-2001, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Belial
[B]


It's almost a silly conversation, since people tend to disregard studies based on the old "Studies are like as*holes, everyone has one" adage. Why are people disagreeing with cack? Do you all not believe what he says? He offers proof (?), everyone offers anecdotal responses "It hasn't hurt me, or other BBs, blah blah". Does that make him right? Maybe. Could he still be wrong? Also a possibility.

But in the end, does it really matter? There are too many other important issues to worry about right now, such as whether electronic analysis methods can even remotely predict muscular hypertrophy, or where the fock I put my wallet. Cack's presented a theory. He backed it up. Everyone has chosen to disregard it.
Therefore, conversation over. Maki, go ask Mel Siff. :D

...Veggies on the other hand.... MMmmmmm.


*** This board is here for people to voice there opinions which are usually based on past or present experience.

A study helps solidify ones statement on whatever topic is being debated.

Cack presented a study, and the people on board can make their own decisions. A study is not the end all be all. A study should provide direction. The reader then should use their own discretion.

I posted last night that I had one that was even more precise since the test subjects were Bodybuilders which went against what Cack stated.
I can't post it since it is not a simple copy and paste abstract.

YatesNightBlade
06-20-2001, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Cackerot69
Bollox.

tuttut

BTW that a middle finger im waving. :)

Tryska
06-20-2001, 06:54 AM
I think people just love to argue for arguments sake...

i'm not saying cack is wrong.....his theories are backed up and that's wonderful....

but guess what....i eat fruits, i eat veggies...i even indulge in simple carbs and saturated fats :eek: from time to time..*lol*

then again my goals aren't necessarily the same goals as everyone else here.....but if someone has an opinion, why get defensive? accept it as their truth of the moment and move on...unless of course it's an opinion that might put people's lives at danger.

which i don't think fruit v. no fruit is.

IceRgrrl
06-20-2001, 07:13 AM
To each his/her own, I guess...probly depends a lot on personal tastes.

I can't imagine not eating fruits and veggies, especially since I've cut so much other stuff out of my diet. I'm one of those odd ones who actually LIKES just about every fruit/veggie...right now it's spring lettuce for salads and strawberries.

But then I'm not a hardcore BB, just aiming to put on some more muscle so I can dish it out better when checking some guy who's bigger than me ;)

Alex.V
06-20-2001, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington


*** This board is here for people to voice there opinions which are usually based on past or present experience.

A study helps solidify ones statement on whatever topic is being debated.

Cack presented a study, and the people on board can make their own decisions. A study is not the end all be all. A study should provide direction. The reader then should use their own discretion.

I posted last night that I had one that was even more precise since the test subjects were Bodybuilders which went against what Cack stated.
I can't post it since it is not a simple copy and paste abstract.

I wasn't disagreeing, nor did I think my post merited a response. It was a rhetorical lament, so to speak. i think you felt my phrasing of "anecdotal evidence" and "personal experience" was meant negatively. That's far from the truth. In fact, I think in many circumstances the science falls far short, and fails to take into account many variables that often lead studies to make sweeping conclusions that simply don't bear out in the real world. What I was poking a wee bit of fun at is the fact that nobody (other than yourself) was really making an attempt to fight Cack on his own turf, namely, by quoting studies, biological facts, etc. :)

And i would LOVE to read your study.

If nothing else, I firmly believe that nobody should be so firmly convinced one way or another on ANY of these issues that they are totally unwilling to consider new ideas, or even change their opinion as new evidence comes along. There are simply too many debatable issues (that tend to be intertwined) to assume that one will ever be able to make an ironclad argument.

werd.

breeze
06-20-2001, 09:18 AM
BELIAL Go eat your fruits or go to your room, now young man. Seriously, I could go into evolution biology, but that topic may be beyond the scope of this board. Too often members of this community abandon common sense for the controversial. I am not going to Spam this tread with links to the relevant research; however, I will cut and paste one comprehensive study. I will say this. There is more to fruit than fructose.

"Study Shows Key to Healthy Heart Is Healthy Diet
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - In findings that underscore the importance of eating healthy for long life, two new studies reveal that fruits, vegetables and a diet low in fat can protect against heart disease.
The first study of more than 84,000 female healthcare workers aged 34 to 59 and more than 42,000 male healthcare workers aged 40 to 75 found that just one additional daily serving of fruit or vegetables lowered the risk of heart disease by 4%. Vegetables such as spinach, kale and broccoli, and fruits such as oranges and grapefruits offered the most protection, results show.
``Our data support a protective effect of greater consumption of fruits and vegetables, in particular green leafy vegetables and vitamin C-rich fruits and vegetables, against risk for coronary heart disease,'' according to Dr. Kaumudi J. Joshipura and colleagues from Harvard University in Boston, Massachusetts.
Coronary heart disease, which occurs when arteries that carry blood to the heart become blocked, is the leading cause of death in the US.
The investigators reviewed data from two large studies examining factors affecting the health of middle-aged women and men. The findings, published in the June 19th issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine, show that people who ate the most fruits and vegetables were older, had healthier lifestyles overall and smoked less. Still, the relationship between high fruit and vegetable intake and low risk of heart disease remained regardless of exercise or smoking habits and vitamin use.
Increased fruit and vegetable consumption was also found to protect people with type 2 diabetes against heart attack, a potential complication of the disease.
Fruits and vegetables contain myriad compounds that have been linked with improved health. Fiber, potassium, folate and antioxidants have all been shown to lower heart disease risk, for example.
``The mechanisms through which vegetables and fruits protect against cardiovascular disease are likely to be multiple,'' Joshipura and colleagues conclude.
Indeed, a second study published in the journal reports diets low in fat and rich in fruits, vegetables, nuts and whole grains improved blood flow and prevented damage to the cells that line the arteries in a group of men with high cholesterol. Damage to these particular cells may lead to atherosclerosis--a build-up of plaque inside arteries that inhibits the flow of blood.
In the study, 22 men followed a diet high in saturated fat for 4 weeks and then switched to a low-fat, low-cholesterol diet for 28 days. The low-fat diet was either the National Cholesterol Education Program diet, which is recommended for people with slightly to moderately high cholesterol; or a ``Mediterranean'' diet rich in grains, nuts, vegetables and fruits and low in meat.
Both diets resulted in reduced cholesterol and LDL (''bad'') cholesterol levels, but the Mediterranean diet had the added effect of protecting the cells that line arteries from damage.
``The beneficial effects of dietary intervention are not limited solely to its action on (fat) levels but may also influence other...mechanisms, opening up new perspectives for its protective effect on atherosclerosis,'' Dr. Francisco Fuentes of Hospital Universitario Reina Sofia in Cordoba, Spain, and colleagues conclude."


So in conclusion: fruits = good.

Alex.V
06-20-2001, 09:27 AM
I think the issue was fructose. ;)


But your statement:

"Too often members of this community abandon common sense for the controversial"

Is sort of what I was getting at with the statement about science often lacking real-world proof.....

*Goes to his room*

lol

Tryska
06-20-2001, 09:30 AM
*throws navel orange @ Belial*

yeah..what he said...eating fruit = smoking cessation.:D

Cackerot69
06-20-2001, 08:46 PM
Bollox.