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Shocker
09-04-2002, 04:18 AM
is it higher or lower than average?
anyone seen studies ? I haven't found much.

i am interested in studies not on athletes, but on bodybuilders.

tks.

Paul Stagg
09-04-2002, 07:25 AM
I don't think anyone has done anything like that.

It would be a rather long, difficult study, eh?

DcK
09-04-2002, 11:22 AM
You know, I was thinking about this same question because I was reading yet another study about calorie reduction and increased life span. If anyone finds anything out on this, or could speculate on this, do let me know. My guess might be that it's (on average) lower, but I have no data to support this, so I could be waaaaayyyy off?!

Peace.

Delphi
09-04-2002, 12:46 PM
Never heard of any studies. The world-class lifters must have some pretty considerable eccentric hypertrophy of the cardiac muscle, which could shorten their lifespans.

Anybody know how old John Grimek, John McCallum, Steve Reeves, Eugen Sandow, Bill Starr, Maury Jones, Reg Park, Bill Pearl, and Paul Anderson got to be? I would guess a few of these greats may still be alive.

Paul Stagg
09-04-2002, 12:56 PM
McCallum lived into his 80's I think, Grimek also lived to a pretty ripe age, I believe.

Reeves was in his 70's when he died.

Bill Starr is in his late 50's early 60s now. pearl is in his 60's.

Paul Anderson died quite young - in his 40's.

Jones wasn't particularly young, nor was Park, but I don't know for sure how old they were.

I, too, have seen the low calories = live long studies. There are way too many factors involved to really make the causal connection, though. Certainly, they appear to be tied.

There are also obvious health benefits (which could lead to longevity) in building and maintaining muscle mass, but no clear cut limit - how much is enough vs too much. I'd imagine carrying far more muscular weight than you were 'designed to' could lead to issues.

Of course, there are also benefits for quality of life, which, IMO, is far more important (and difficult to study). I'd rather die at 65 after being hit by a truck while out for my morning run as opposed to death at 85 having been hooked up to machines and bed ridden for the last 5 years of my life.

Any mention of the quiality of life of the elderly low calorie eaters?

Also, I would think that a healthy high calorie eater (bodybuilder) may not follow the same trend as an unhealthy high calorie eater.

Delphi
09-04-2002, 01:02 PM
Health status of former elite athletes. The Finnish experience

Aging (Milano) 1997 Feb-Apr;9(1-2):35-41 (ISSN: 0394-9532)

Sarna S; Kaprio J; Kujala UM; Koskenvuo M
Department of Public Health, University of Helsinki, Finland.

Physical activity is an important aspect of health behavior and life-style, when considering the possibilities to prevent premature deaths and sustain functional capacity. We studied former Finnish male athletes and controls to investigate the effects of long-lasting participation in vigorous sports on health, and the main findings are reviewed here. The athletes represented Finland between the years 1920-1965 at least once in international competitions. The following sports were selected: track and field athletics, cross-country skiing, soccer, ice hockey, basketball, boxing, wrestling, weight lifting, and shooting. The full name, place and date of birth were traced for 2613 (97.7%) men. The referent subjects (N = 1712) were selected among those Finnish men who, at the age of 20, were classified completely healthy at the medical examination for induction into military service. In most analyses we grouped the sports according to the type of training needed to achieve maximal results, i.e., principally aerobic training, principally anaerobic training or mixed. In 1985, a questionnaire on physical activity, health and health habits was mailed to surviving former athletes and referents (N = 2851, 65.9% of the original cohort). Follow-up for morbidity and mortality was based on national medical registries. We found that former aerobic sports athletes (endurance and mixed sports) in particular have high total and active life expectancy and low risk for ischemic heart disease and diabetes in later years. On the other hand, they have slightly higher risk for lower-limb osteoarthritis. Overall, the benefits of physically active life-style on health were clearly higher than the adverse effects.

DcK
09-04-2002, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg

I'd rather die at 65 after being hit by a truck while out for my morning run as opposed to death at 85 having been hooked up to machines and bed ridden for the last 5 years of my life.

Couldn't have said it better, I agree.


Any mention of the quiality of life of the elderly low calorie eaters?

I don't know how they "feel" as far as quality of life, most do seem to feel and express a good quality of life, just from the few interviews I've seen. But, one thing is for sure, they don't normally look very healthy IMO, and I wouldn't want to walk around looking that skinny.

DcK
09-04-2002, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Delphi
Health status of former elite athletes. The Finnish experience

Aging (Milano) 1997 Feb-Apr;9(1-2):35-41 (ISSN: 0394-9532)

Sarna S; Kaprio J; Kujala UM; Koskenvuo M
Department of Public Health, University of Helsinki, Finland.

Physical activity is an important aspect of health behavior and life-style, when considering the possibilities to prevent premature deaths and sustain functional capacity. We studied former Finnish male athletes and controls to investigate the effects of long-lasting participation in vigorous sports on health, and the main findings are reviewed here. The athletes represented Finland between the years 1920-1965 at least once in international competitions. The following sports were selected: track and field athletics, cross-country skiing, soccer, ice hockey, basketball, boxing, wrestling, weight lifting, and shooting. The full name, place and date of birth were traced for 2613 (97.7%) men. The referent subjects (N = 1712) were selected among those Finnish men who, at the age of 20, were classified completely healthy at the medical examination for induction into military service. In most analyses we grouped the sports according to the type of training needed to achieve maximal results, i.e., principally aerobic training, principally anaerobic training or mixed. In 1985, a questionnaire on physical activity, health and health habits was mailed to surviving former athletes and referents (N = 2851, 65.9% of the original cohort). Follow-up for morbidity and mortality was based on national medical registries. We found that former aerobic sports athletes (endurance and mixed sports) in particular have high total and active life expectancy and low risk for ischemic heart disease and diabetes in later years. On the other hand, they have slightly higher risk for lower-limb osteoarthritis. Overall, the benefits of physically active life-style on health were clearly higher than the adverse effects.

Helpful article, yet, this doesn't address Bodybuilders specifically (I doubt there's any such article). The main reason I was saying lower life expectancy was mostly because when I think of bb'ers, I'm considering mostly professional, both natural and "unnatural." So, we all know what goes on in the life of someone preparing for contests and competition, not your average healthy routine IMO. Anyway, I could be wrong, this is just my opinion. Peace.

Delphi
09-04-2002, 04:29 PM
Yeah, the abstract mentioned weight lifters near the top, but the conclusion was made for former aerobic sports athletes. It was the closest I could find.

On a side note, I found abstracts for studies where they're giving creatine, in conjunction with resistance training, to everyone on earth: old folks, people with myasthenia gravis, heart failure patients, those with COPD. Studies show some benefit for all of them.

raniali
09-04-2002, 05:02 PM
There was a thread a few weeks ago on low calories increasing life span. I read an article (*i might try to find it if i have time*) that more or less stated that reduced calorie diets helped mice/rats live almost twice as long as their counterparts. This isn't in relation to bodybuilders (or even athletes) - but you can't feasibly run a study on people over their entire life. One thought is that less work ('wear-n-tear') is done on your body by processing less food. Additionally, less free radical formation from digestive and metabolic processes.

There should be some studies out there on exercise and life span -- but then again, how do you set up a weight training program for mice?

Delphi
09-04-2002, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by raniali
There should be some studies out there on exercise and life span -- but then again, how do you set up a weight training program for mice?


See Jane's avatar *LOL*

Shocker
09-04-2002, 07:50 PM
there is also the factor that someone brought up recently regarding the high level of meat eating and therefore animal fat consumption contributing to heart disease.
Make sure you eat your vegetables because I have heard of Kidney problems due to a high intake of protein, however I haven't read any studies to confirm this.

raniali
09-05-2002, 04:23 PM
If I had a dime for every time I heard that eating too much protein will kill you.....ARGH!

Too much milk will give you stones.
Too much water will give you diarrhea.
Too much broccoli will give you flatulence.
I guess we might as well die now.

Protein digestion IS hard on the system - especially the liver. But so is drinking alcohol or taking vitamins or drinking coffee. Too much protein will NOT kill you ... considering that Eskimos mainly live off meat and fat and they are made of the same things we are. What is important to remember - esp on high protein diets - is drinking lotso'water. LOTS. Of course you should be already drinking H2O like it's going out of style ... but if you need a reason, it helps neutralize acidic metabolic byproducts and flush out liver, kidneys and other digestive pathways.

Water is your friend - embrace it.

hemants
09-06-2002, 02:07 PM
I seem to recall that resistance trained atheletes life expectancy is lower than that of aerobic atheletes but I'd guess that as long as body fat is kept in check and diet is balanced then resistance trained atheletes would outlive the average person.

I'll try to dig up the source.

Joey G.
09-06-2002, 02:23 PM
Too much protein will NOT kill you ... considering that Eskimos mainly live off meat and fat and they are made of the same things we are.

Carlon M. Colker, MD just answered someone's questions in this month's issue of MD with a similar answer to the above statement. "Some Eskimo tribes have lived on more then 600 grams of proten per day for perhaps thousnds of years."

maktub
09-06-2002, 08:20 PM
yea and the indians died from diseases europeans were immune to...

just because there body adapted to high protien doesnt mean everyone else has too.


just another perspective take it however you want

raniali
09-18-2002, 11:18 AM
Came across an article today *somewhat* related to the thread topic ...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=571&ncid=751&e=1&u=/nm/20020918/hl_nm/food_pets_dc

A thought just occured to me that bodybuilder life expectancy *might* be somewhat decreased for those bb's whose sole purpose in life is to gain gain gain since that equates to eat eat eat.

BUFF STUFF
09-18-2002, 05:47 PM
What about Mike Mentzer and his brother they both died before 50 didnt they?

Delphi
09-18-2002, 06:19 PM
One of them was on dialysis, I believe. Was the other diabetic?

Of the elite bodybuilder/powerlifter/strongman men, it seems that more of them lived to be ripe old men than died at a young age.

raniali
09-18-2002, 06:32 PM
but the bodybuilding era of the 60-70s has been replaced with our more modern, more supplemented approach resulting in more extreme ideals. i think the true answer to this question will be apparent in the next few decades when either the BIG DAWGS of today live or die.

PowerManDL
09-18-2002, 06:39 PM
LOL @ "supplemented"

Delphi
09-18-2002, 06:40 PM
Good point. Let me venture to say that weight training itself is a healthy activity. Massive doses of steroids and some other growth enhancers are not.