Question for low volume believers

[Sinep]

I've had awesome gains with low volume, now.. how come most pros do high volume? they emphasize that you need to get the blood pumping into the muscle.. bb such as markus ruhl does 30 sets per bodyparts.

[Tackleberry]

I wonder the same thing. I have had tremendous gains in a short time using low volume. I used to do high volume and made gains, but not as much as i have made with low volume.

I think part of it is the individual...one guy at my gym (has a tremendous physique) said he uses high volume cuz his body responds to it much better than low volume. He is proof that high volume has worked...for him. One thing I don't know though is, Is he natural??? :confused:

[hemants]

Pro's = genetically gifted or on steroids

However, to paraphrase Paul Stagg in a previous thread, of the two elements of HIT training low volume and adequate rest, the latter is far more important.

Perhaps this is a stretch, but I usually notice that most average shmoe's who do high volume tend to train too often as well. (Probably doesn't apply to people here though).

I've recently become a fan of doing my usual 2 work sets per exercise and then adding 1 super slow, light weight, squeeze/mega blood rush set as icing on the cake. It may be a psychological benefit but perhaps even more.

To me the biggest drawback of large volume is measuring progression. The big benefit of doing fewer sets and few exercises is that your mental and physical intensity is easier to concentrate.

My $0.02

[Joe Black]

Well I think it mainly comes down to genetics and steroid use when looking at the pro's...

I mean these guys revoer so fast with amazing genetics. That coupled with superior eating plans, ****e loads of rest and a BUCKETFULL of steroids then they can grow in that type of volume.. You can miagine with their genetics they could prob grow better than us on twice as much volume.. They are frieks...

Plus it would'nt be as good if a chest article in flex had to br written around 2 exercises, for 2 sets each lol..

Much easier to blab on about 5 diff exercises etc.. :)

[Frankster]

Ive had gains on vey low volume for a while... but ive switched to higher volume (more reps and more frequent training sessions) because, gains had stop with low volume, my body was tired, started having minor injuries, heavy weights willdo that to you on the long run.
I find it is good to switch like every 6 months because it seems that the body gets lazy... less frequent training so it figures.. oh well.. i don't have to recuperate as fast now with these less frequent training.(my theory)
Also, the body is only used to push hard for 2-6 reps then stop... i come to have no endurance.

[2massive]

I'd been doing relatively high volume for a while and had noticed my gains stopped so I switched to low volume and i've started gaining again.

If you stick with the same routine and training methods for too long you will naturally hit a plateau.

In my opinion both low and high volume training have their uses.

My best mate uses very high volume training, like 15 or so sets for back and chest and he has made huge gains. He will do both flat bench, incline bench, flat machine, flyes and crossovers, just about all sets to failure because that's what works best for him!

Everyone is geetically different when it comes down to it

[omegaman]

its all to do with your muscles
heavy weights and low reps hit the slow twitch muscles
whilst low weights and high reps hist the fast twitch muscles

think about
when you go heavy you tend to get the pump
and your muscles fill up
only snag is you circualtion tends to get cut off
but when you go light you find that you get the pump but it takes long so better for the blood to pump through your muscles

its good to go low weights now and again to shake your body up espcially if you kind of use it as a cardio/cross training
and you rip up like nobody business!!

[Frankster]

just for the record omega, you have the muscle type mixed up.. its fast twitch for low reps and slow twitch for high reps

[omegaman]

:D

[chris mason]

The pros can use high volume because all of the drugs they ingest allow for much greater recovery from exercise.

[Rock]

It also has something to do with wich muscle you train to, I always go heavy and hard on all the arm muscles because I want to achive that hard kick ass look that Arnold and Franco had, Never more than 5reps on the arms. But on legs you can do 20reps or on maybe abs or shoulders.

[Manipul8r]

Its definatly the steroids, they can do an unthinkable amount of excercises. Its pretty ****ed up, if someone like us (natrual) tried to do all that ****, injuries are inevitable. well most of us anyway.

[Alex.V]

Originally posted by Rock
It also has something to do with wich muscle you train to, I always go heavy and hard on all the arm muscles because I want to achive that hard kick ass look that Arnold and Franco had, Never more than 5reps on the arms. But on legs you can do 20reps or on maybe abs or shoulders.


errrrrr.....

[kAto]

this has always boggled be as well, obviously these pros have a tremendous amount of fast twitch fibres, which has the most potential for growth.

possibly, they can no longer train to stimulate ft 2a,2b fibres because they have reached their max size/strength/potential, so they train for slow twitch, and capilary growth.

[Sinep]

good thinking Kato

[chris mason]

Listen, I have known pros, trained with one, and watched many of them train. There is no secret to it other than the fact that they are pharmacies. All of the training routines they espouse (most, not all) are bullshi*, many of them are not very bright, and the manner in which they train only benefits them in so far as they train hard, and they have the genetics, and they take enough drugs that the end result is what you see. That is it!

[gino]

Frankster and others - some of you seem to have the concept of "low volume" confused. Low vs high volume does not necessarily relate to reps per set and weight used. It relates more to total SET VOLUME per bodypart. Here's an example of my transition from high to low volume.

Chest workout - high volume

Flat bench - 4 x 8
Incline dumbell - 4 x 6
Flat dumbell - 4 x 6
Decline press - 4 x 8
Flyes - 4 x 12

Total sets - 20
Reps per set - 6-12

Chest workout - low volume

Incline press - 3 sets
Flat dumbell - 2 sets
Cables - 2 sets

Total sets - 7
Reps per set - all sets taken to absolute failure, so reps are different with every set. Range from 5 to 15 reps - whatever I can squeeze out at whatever weight I use.

With high volume, if I could do more than 8 reps on my first set, I wouldn't because I was doing 4 sets of 8, so I still had three more sets to worry about getting 8 reps for.

Now, I take each set 1 at a time. I don't stop a set until I have reached absolute failure. At 8 reps, if I feel like I can get a couple more, I get them. Then I'll have my spotter help me get another rep or two. It's about giving 100% effort on every set, not 80% on the first set and 95% on the fourth. Reps and weight don't have to change, just your set volume and intensity.

Several drug pros use low volume techniques. More will use it in the future when it becomes mainstream, but just think how long most of these guys have been training, and at the time they started training, how they were taught. I didn't even know anything about low volume training until a few years ago. Tell a pro who has been training the same way for 15 years to change his entire philosophy and 99 times out of 100 he'll tell you to go f*ck yourself.

I was very surprised to learn that mass monster Greg Kovacs preaches low volume, or at least lower than most - 8 sets small body parts, 10 sets for large

[Sinep]

Thanks Gino, we love you
Lets not forget that Greg Kovacs is on Nitro and CellTech , thus allowing gains up to 1100% higher than other creatine products.

[Frankster]

thanks Gino

[The Cobra]

Last I checked it was 1650%. (Not kidding, look at the cell-tech articles)

[Tackleberry]

I agree with Gino, I just learned about low volume weightlifting a couple of months and since changing my workout to it, I have exploded (in my opinion anyways). However, when I tell high volume guys about my workout, it almost ALWAYS falls on deaf ears. I believe it will catch on though. And we'll be hearing about more widespread.

[The_Chicken_Daddy]

Originally posted by Sinep
Thanks Gino, we love you


Amen.

[Paul Stagg]

Drugs and genetics.

Some people respond VERY well to higher volume routines, usually due to very good recovery abilities. So happens, these people tend to be suited for bodybuilding. The same is true for OLers, who also use higher volume routines (drugs and genetics)

Also, remember, that these guys are thrilled to gain a pound of muscle.

[2massive]

Gino, when you say that you do all sets to failure, do you do a warm up set to failure or do you stop short?

I am intrigued because I have recently become a new age low-volumer but have been doing a warm up set that doesn't reach failure for about 10-15 reps.
Should I up the weight on these warm up sets and hit failkure or stick with what I'm doing?

[Rock]

Beilal what did I say wrong..I just find The ArnolFranc arm look cooler than todays almost for real bodybuilders, And to achive such arms, many years of heavy training must be done, and a ****load of other stuff...hehe :)

[MWB]

2massive- I can't speak for Gino but I wouldn't take your warmups to failure. A warmup shouldn't really tax the body at all. It should just prepare it for the weight you use on your work set.

I usually do about 3-5 warmup sets before my 2-3 work sets. None of the warmups are remotely close to failure. If I was doing work sets of 6-8 reps at 200lbs, my warmups would be like 135X5, 155X3, 185X2 and then my work sets. This way it gets my nervouse system ready for 200lbs, but my muscles haven't really been taxed.

[majsi98]

Dont be stupid Hermantes Do you really think that just because a person is on steroids he is not genetically gifted?? So Arnie wasn't genetically gifted? Ronnie Coleman ? Platz? Colombu ? Now dont continue with your theory of ****

[Joe Black]

I see to many people stressing their body too much with warm up sets.. I too used to do 15 rep warm up sets nearly going to failure :eek:

Do your self a favour and conserver your energy for the heavy weights..

I.e b4 the main compund exercises I normally do 2 warm up sets of 6 reps each.. It would be with a weight I could normally get 20 reps with ! It saves all my energy for the heavy sets !

[Yaz]

One thing I notice with low volume.

Maybe this is just me. Very hard to calculate what weight you should be using for some exercises. Of course if you are doing 10 reps on the second set of this weight than da. But if you honestly go to failure on the first set, there is no way you are doing that many reps on the next set. If I went to total and complete failure, on say 10 reps... the next set, it would not be totally unheard of for me to get 5, maybe 6. :D

So how do you guys judge your weight? Just curious.

[MWB]

Yaz I usually use the same weight. Example, after warming up I'll do 200 lbs for 8 reps on the first set to failure then the second set I can usually manage 5 reps to failure. So if you do your 10 reps and then 6 reps that's fine as long as you give everthing you have. Next week add 5 lbs and keep that weight untill you can 10 and 6 again. Just keep progressing.

Just make sure you take enough rest between sets. I take about 3 maybe 4 minutes. Squats sometimes I take 5 minutes.

[Taras]

Yaz,

Go back and read Gino's post. He does 15 - 5 reps, whatever he can squeeze out. If I'm understanding him correctly, I would say just use the same weight for all your sets, as long as you can't get any more than 15 reps on the first set and you can get at least 5 on the last set.

[Chris Rodgers]

YAZ- I just go by feel. If I have a desired number of reps to get, I judge the weight for the second set on how I felt on the first set. It's not real scientific, it's just about how you feel.

[Yaz]

Good.

Then we do the same thing. :D

[gino]

Yes, warmups are intended to be easy sets to get your joints used to the movement and increased poundage. They only need to be done for the first exercise for each body part. You don't need to do warmups for every exercise during a workout. Here is an example of exact weights/reps I used for my last workout.

Flat bench
warmup 1 - 135 x 10
warmup 2 - 185 x 6
warmup 3 - 225 x 4
Set 1 - 265 x 11
Set 2 - 265 x 8
Set 3 - 265 x 6

Dumbell incline
Set 1 - 85s x 8
Set 2 - 85s x 7
Set 3 - 85s x 5

Cable inclines
1 set of 10-15 reps

[The_Chicken_Daddy]

Gino, can you rememeber that post you made on MM.com about bicheps training?

about you doing low volume and another guy doing higher volume - that story was fookin' ace and was the reason i tried lower volume.

[Tackleberry]

Gino, next time you do flat bench, will you jump up a few pounds for your sets (e.g. up to 270)?? What indication do you go by that tells you to put on more weight?? For instance, with flat bench, if I get 8 reps or more in a set, I will put on 5 more pounds for the next set. And the next time I work my chest, my first set will be the weight that I finished with the previous time. I'm just curious how others judge this.

thanks!

[hemants]

Majsi98, I'm not sure I understand your post.

The point is that many pro's use high volume and can get away with it because they are :

1) genetically gifted
2) on steroids
3) both

Thus, a high volume training regimen may not produce optimal gains for a non-genetically gifted natural trainer.

(But it will still produce gains)

[gino]

Yeah CD, I vaguely remember. Damn, I can't believe you remember that.

Tackleberry - I may add weight or I may just use 265 again and see if I can get an extra rep or two on each set. Like I explained before, I am an instinctual trainer to the extreme - I do what I feel, when I feel like doing it. Maybe next time I do flat bench(usually every other workout) I'll load 290 on the bar and do some really low rep sets. I won't know until the day comes, though. As long as I take every set to absolute failure and don't overdo it, and my diet & rest are in check, progress is inevitable - whether it be added reps or added weight.