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View Full Version : which diet do y'all prefer..and why



Tank23
09-17-2002, 07:20 AM
My cutting cycle is coming up in about 4-6 weeks, I'm still deciding on which diet to use. First I was thinking along the lines of a strict keto. But from what I've read, for bodybuilding purposes, it's best to do a high protein, moderate fat and carbs diet. Such as 55protein/25fat/20carbs.

I have had much experience with cutting diets, the last diet i went on wasn't really a diet of any kind, i was just eating healthy and exercising, and it was right at the beginning when i started weight training and didn't know any thing, which is about a year and a half ago.


So what I want to know is, what type of diets do you all use for cutting, why do you use that type of diet, how effective is it compared with other diets you've tried?
Obviously I want to maximize fat loss, while minimizing muscle loss.

-Tank

Paul Stagg
09-17-2002, 07:47 AM
I usually suggest somethgin cloes to iso (40/30/30) at 12 cals per pound to start, and adjust as necessary.

I've used a TKD to some success. I liked the diet for about a month, then got sick of it. I didn't have trouble staying on it, though.

GuitarPlayer
09-17-2002, 07:49 AM
i like the classic 40/40/20. or you could do 40/45/15 or something related, just don't cut out fat or carbs from your diet. keto diets are just not worth it, and who knows what they do to your body in the long run.

most important part of cutting is keeping metabolism high. exercise plenty, both cardiovascular and lifting, and eat bulky fibrous foods with good protein and unsat fats. the ratios are not really THAT important as long you stay within some reasonable boundaries and exercise often.

Puttn
09-17-2002, 08:01 AM
i do 12 x lbs in bodyweight = calories and i try to up the protein durin the cuts and lower the carbs and just eat only lean meats and some natty peanut butter for the fats

Tank23
09-17-2002, 08:01 AM
i think the ratios are very important....eating too much carbs will increase insulin production, which will hinder fat loss.

The_Chicken_Daddy
09-17-2002, 08:02 AM
The most important thing is having a diet you can stick to.

Then focus on calorie deficit.

Even those horrible low fat, high carb diets work to some extent depending on your body fat.

Most find higher fat diets easier to stick to due to the CCK aspect, but you can achieve the same results with predominatly carb based diets. I'm doing good on NHE right now.

Tryska
09-17-2002, 08:03 AM
i like 40f/30p/30c


and those carbs coming from fresh fruits, and veggies, and a serving of oats for easy glucose.

Tank23
09-17-2002, 08:10 AM
damn! you guys and gals reply quick. I gotta start posting at this time of the night (12am here) more often....

i like your suggestion Tyrska. Eating low GI carbs for cutting would work alright i think...seeing as it won't elevate insulin levels too much. Also the quality of workouts would be better with your proposed diet, in contrast with a keto style diet, where i'd feel like crap and lacking energy.

Tryska
09-17-2002, 08:16 AM
yeah. but when i first transitioned to this style of eating, i went isocaloric...and even with that, i felt like crap for about 2 weeks, before the switchover.


It makes it easier tho.....i personally use oats, but one serving of starch a day, makes things more flexible.

Tank23
09-17-2002, 08:21 AM
what does isocaloric mean? i gather that it is when you have the macronutrients split up as mention such as 40f/30c/30p

Tryska
09-17-2002, 08:34 AM
no..isocaloric, is more like 33/33/33 i switched up to 40/30/30 when i bumped up my cals.

Tank23
09-17-2002, 08:48 AM
aha, gotcha! so you reckon your 40/30/30 is good for losing fat while keeping maximum muscle? what is it best suited for?

and when do you consume your carbs when cutting?

Tryska
09-17-2002, 08:54 AM
well it's helped me lose fat, and i've even been putting some muscle on. or hardening it up or soemthing.

i got traps now. and forearms. and my thighs and hams are quite solid. and my pecs came in sorta.

as for when i consume the carbs now...i eat the oats around 9am, and then pre-workout i drink a myoplex shake with OJ, so i get them rpe-workout as well.

there may also be a minimal amount in my lunch meal, like potatoes in a stew, or a 1/2 cup brown rice with my ground beef or soemthing. other than that, it's all veggies.

(oh one thing that i don't eat is wheat. - i prefer using rice and oats as my grains)

Tryska
09-17-2002, 08:55 AM
and the fats, are olive oil, and incidental fats from eggs, meat, fish and nuts and seeds.

Tank23
09-17-2002, 08:59 AM
thanks alot tyrska for your speedy replies and good info. I'm off to bed now...i'll get back to this post tomorrow.

as for the rest of you...keep the posts coming in...i'm still interested in the rest of your opinions and personal experiences.

-Tank

LAM
09-17-2002, 08:59 AM
I just switched to an isocaloric on Sept 1st and I'm up a solid 5 lbs and down .5% bf...

I wish I had tried this years ago...

Tryska
09-17-2002, 09:03 AM
hey lam?

what's an iso-caloric menu day look liek for you?

Stray
09-17-2002, 09:17 AM
May also want to look up CKD in the search engine.

BennettBoy
09-17-2002, 12:38 PM
I would be very interested in a sample daily diet for this iso-caloric diet myself. Thanks.

The_Chicken_Daddy
09-17-2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by BennettBoy
I would be very interested in a sample daily diet for this iso-caloric diet myself. Thanks.

It doesn't have to be anything special.

Just workout your overall calories and divide it by three.

so 2000 kcals would mean 666.6 kcals from each macro.

That's 167g (rounded up) carbs, 167g protein (rounded up) and 74g fat (rounded slightly down).

If you're eating six meals a day, for example, then your meal breakdowns will be:

27.8g protein
27.8g carbs
12.3g fat


So find food types to fit these numbers

eg

oats for carbs, chicken breast for protein, nuts for fat

Steak for protein and fat and potatoes for carbs

tuna for protein, rice for carbs, oil for fat

Turkey for protein, bread for carbs, mayo for fat

etc...

Just make the portions fit the macro breakdown for each meal.

Simple.

Tryska
09-17-2002, 01:17 PM
thanks chigs....i still wanna know what one of lam's diet days looks liek tho. :)

galileo
09-17-2002, 01:23 PM
LAM's Diet: http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=LAM%40MM%2Ecom

Tryska
09-17-2002, 01:27 PM
refer to my above statement, thanks. :)

The_Chicken_Daddy
09-17-2002, 01:29 PM
LAM, i'm disappointed in the amount of purple pie you have in there tuttut

Yanick
09-17-2002, 01:58 PM
Getting back to the topic for a sec. All the different diets with different macro's will make only a tiny difference. Ultimately it is up to genetics how much fat/muscle you lose. Upping the protein will only give you a marginal difference. A CKD is only protein sparing if you are above 15%, anything under and a CKD has no other benefits than appetite suppression.

Oh yeah, i almost forgot. I would suggest some type of cyclical diet where you incorporate carb loads or re feeds of some sort. This has a few advantages.

1. You can diet and actually have a life! I am totally clean during the week (Sun-Fri), Friday night/Saturday night i can go out and have pasta/fat free ice cream etc. And its not cheating, its carb loading. True you can't just pig out and eat anything you want, like pizza and ****, but you can eat a lot of so called "cheat foods."

2. Leptin - Refer to the interview with Lyle, the millions of posts TCD has made on the subject (probably, i'm assuming here).

3. It keeps you clean during you hypocaloric days, why have that 1 cracker now, instead wait a few days and eat 2 packages of crackers....with jam!

The_Chicken_Daddy
09-17-2002, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Yanick
and a CKD has no other benefits than appetite suppression.

And the psychological benefit of knowing that a HUGE practically 'cheat' day is ahead if you stick to diet properly, which can ultimately be the deciding factor to whether the diet actually works.

Yanick
09-17-2002, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


And the psychological benefit of knowing that a HUGE practically 'cheat' day is ahead if you stick to diet properly, which can ultimately be the deciding factor to whether the diet actually works.

Yes, that too, i've edited my post.

Tank23
09-18-2002, 01:16 AM
damn now y'all have confused me. The isocaloric diet sounds good, because I'll have have the carbs to give me energy for my workouts, and I'll actually feel like working out.

On the other hand a cyclical type of low carb diet, may work better, due to the whole Leptin issue which was discussed by Lyle.

what should I do??:confused:

-Tank

LAM
09-18-2002, 08:37 AM
Tank...what are your current goals ?


TCD...are you referring to the grapes ? the order of the food items is how they are ingested. I eat the grapes in the am to help replenish glycogen stores plus it satisfies any cravings for sweets that I have...

Tryska
09-18-2002, 08:41 AM
he was referrign tot he lack of alcohol LAM.

so can you post a typical diet day for us? I saw the foods you eat already, but do you combine your food any particular way towards any particular goal, or do you jsut do an isocaloric spread over each meal as chigs set his up?


reason i'm askign is the way i did mine, i ate certain foods at certain times, and let the ratios fall in place, not necessaril each meal.

LAM
09-18-2002, 09:24 AM
using my foods from yesterday's diet (http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=LAM%40MM%2Ecom&Year=2002&Month=8&Day=17) here are my meals. When I can EFA's are consumed first then I move on the the carbs and protein.

Meal 1

EAS - Simply Protein (WPC & WPI)
Egg, whole, raw 2 extra large
Egg, white only, raw 1 large egg white
Grapefruit juice, pink, raw 1 cup
Multi-Grain Waffles 1 serving
Syrup, NFS 2 tablespoon
Butter Spread (Smart Balance) 2 serving

Meal 2

ProV60 (1 scoop) 1 serving
EAS - Simply Protein (WPC & WPI) 1 serving
Bagel (100% Whole Wheat) 1 serving
Peanut butter, All Natural 3 tablespoon

Meal 3

Tuna - Chicken of the Sea, low sodium 1 serving
EAS - Simply Protein (WPC & WPI) 1 serving
Ice cream sandwich 1 sandwich (5" x 1-3/4" x 3/4")
Uncle Ben's Long Grain Instant Rice - 1 cup cooked 1 serving Hemp Oil - 1 tablespoon 1 serving

Meal 4

Chicken - White Meat 3.5 oz 1 serving
EAS - Simply Protein (WPC & WPI) 1.5 serving
Uncle Ben's Long Grain Instant Rice - 1 cup cooked 0.75 serving
Hemp Oil - 1 tablespoon 1 serving

Meal 5

Pb&J 1 serving
EAS - Simply Protein (WPC & WPI) 1 serving

Meal 6

Lowfat Cottage Cheese - 2% 1 serving
ProV60 (1 scoop) 1 serving
EAS - Simply Protein (WPC & WPI) 1 serving
MCT Oil - 1 tblspoon 1 serving

Total cals - 4183
Protein - 348 - 33%
Carbs - 346 - 33%
Fats - 157 - 33%

Tryska
09-18-2002, 09:30 AM
not sure what ProV60 is but i'm guessing by the tail end of your day you are tapering carbs off right?

LAM
09-18-2002, 09:40 AM
Yes..I taper carbs so the last meal contains none. high serum glucose and insulin levels will effect gH secretion so no carbs 2.5-3 hours before bed.

the ProV60 is a true blended protein from Labrada. each serving (1 scoop) is 30 grams of protein, 6 carbs and 1 gram of fat...

Bam Bam
09-18-2002, 09:41 AM
Is it ok just to eat and not count cals???

BennettBoy
09-18-2002, 09:45 AM
Bam Bam, hell yeah it is OK. I've been doing it for 3 years. That's bout to come to a hault though. If you are happy with the way you are progressing and adding muscle......just eat!

Tryska
09-18-2002, 09:50 AM
that's a real decent diet you've got there LAM. Mine is quite similar, in design, except that my cabrs tend to come from different sources. and pre-workout i aim for a bit of a sugar rush. (late afternoon)


and tank, while both isocaloric and cyclical are great, I kinda do a combo of both.....

Basically I eat really clean during the week, and then loosen up and add those carbs in on the weekend. I've enver been one for binging, exactly, but i basically use the weekend to get those starchy sugary carbs in. (mainly because my feeding gets shot to hell with he schedule change) I wind up still hypocaloric, but it allows me to top of glycogen levels before another week of training.

Yanick
09-18-2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Tank23
damn now y'all have confused me. The isocaloric diet sounds good, because I'll have have the carbs to give me energy for my workouts, and I'll actually feel like working out.

On the other hand a cyclical type of low carb diet, may work better, due to the whole Leptin issue which was discussed by Lyle.


Leptin drops due to a negative calorie flux.

IE Eating under maintanance calories.

You don't need to do a CKD or cycle carbs per se. You would just need to incorporate some type of re-feed (frequency/length depends on mainly % BF).

I just gave the CKD as an example of a diet which incorporates re-feeds (Carb-ups).

hemants
09-18-2002, 10:37 AM
I think ratios are overrated.

The only determinant of how much weight you will lose is total calories.

The most important determinants of whether you will lose muscle and/or fat are:

1. weight training
2. amount of caloric defecit (too much will catabolize muscle)
3. hydration

There are other factors but the above three are the most important, others are:

4. adequate protein intake
5. quality of fats and carbs (unsaturated fats, low glycemic carbs and high in fibre).
6. size and timing of meals

My $0.02 -> get adequate protein, cut calories slightly and weight train.

Tank23
09-18-2002, 11:16 AM
ok....from what i have learnt from you all and other sources, this is what i'm thinking at the moment:

moderate carbs...taper of carbs towards end of day.
maybe even taper off carbs towards end of week (friday) and refeed on weekends.
High protein, moderate fat.

How does this sound?

Tryska
09-18-2002, 11:22 AM
that sounds like a nice hybrid....but question?

what's your reasoning behind tapering off carbs toward the end of the week?

Tank23
09-18-2002, 11:32 AM
i just thought of that on the spot. I figured that it would be a cross between a low carb and isocaloric. Like monday would be sorta isocaloric, then tues lower the carbs and increase the protein, and so on.

This way I'd have a good workout on monday, and even on wednesday, and on friday i'd probably be feeling stuffed from a lack of carbs, but it's only one workout, and i'll be able to replenish glycogen stores straight after anyway.
So at least 2/3 of my workouts will be done in a carbed up state, allowing a good workout.

I haven't really put much thought into this tapering off of carbs through the week. There's probably a few reasons why it wouldn't/would work. Tell me what u think

Tryska
09-18-2002, 11:40 AM
well i think it's good in that it keeps your body guessing. However, the thing i'm wondering is.....if you "carbup" over the weekend.....your going to already ahve pretty strong workouts the beginning of the week because of that.

considering what i read of lyle's post in my thread about morning cardio, the glycogen depletion is what you want. Perhaps if you made your cabr intake for that meal pre-workout, so you have the enrgy to do the workout, and get back into a depleted state right after?

LAM
09-18-2002, 12:01 PM
just make sure that you alot yourself a sufficient carb intake on weight training days or at least the first couple meals before the training session...

The_Chicken_Daddy
09-18-2002, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by LAM
high serum glucose and insulin levels will effect gH secretion so no carbs 2.5-3 hours before bed.



Just how much difference do you think this makes?

Maki Riddington
09-18-2002, 02:41 PM
What LAM said is true but you would need to go at least 12-16 hours without eating to see a difference that would be noticeable in the long run imo. Forgive me if I can't conjure up a reference right now. It's sitting in a book back home.

Jilla82
09-18-2002, 03:08 PM
What kind of carbs are you guys talking about? sugars, breads or what? I eat alot of wheat bread, is that a problem in lossing some fat?

Yanick
09-18-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Jilla82
What kind of carbs are you guys talking about? sugars, breads or what? I eat alot of wheat bread, is that a problem in lossing some fat?

It depends on how many calories you are getting throughout the day.

LAM
09-18-2002, 03:17 PM
TCD...by itself not much.

but if you add up all the little things that we do to increase gH secretion through training, diet and supplementation IMO that's what matters, especially as one gets older and gH production declines ...

Tank23
09-22-2002, 09:33 AM
Tyrska- if i'm not going to be doing morning cardio, or maybe any cardio....it is not neccessary for carb depletion, right?

Tryska
09-22-2002, 07:11 PM
you mean that cardio is not necessary for carb depletion?

if so, then if you're diet keeps you in a relatively carb-depleted state, then no, you don't need to. your weith routine will take care of any glycogen to be stored. be prepare to see your weights go down some tho, just because full glycogen stores, reflect in easy, and strong sessions.

The_Chicken_Daddy
09-23-2002, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by LAM
I just switched to an isocaloric on Sept 1st and I'm up a solid 5 lbs and down .5% bf...

I wish I had tried this years ago...

LAM, what type of diet were you using before switching to iso?

Tank23
09-24-2002, 10:58 AM
I'm leaning towards an iso diet now, even Lam reckons it worked well for him, so I might give it a shot. I'd love to be able to do carb ups on the weekend though...that's a positive of a CKD. It's still a toss up between a CKD and an Iso. At least i have about 3 weeks to make up my mind.

-Tank