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Blood&Iron
10-09-2002, 09:56 PM
Wednesday October 9, 2002

Ramblings
'Friends applaud. The comedy is over.'

Yes, I have cast that comical,rambling tale of my bodybuilding foibles, failings, and (very occasional) triumphs known as 'Hell, why not?' into the deep. Like some ship that has outlived its time, it will silently sink to the bottom of this sea of ether, coming at last to rest at the murky bottom(Probably between the hulking, rusted shells of several of Monstar's journals). Why, you may ask yourself, has B&I done such a thing? What would possess him to consign something to which so much time had been devoted, in which such a tale of heroism and tragedy unfolded, which had consumed his very life, to oblivion? Well my friend, the answer is quite simple: I still look like sh*t. I am unhappy with my progress. I should probably just suck it up and start doing massive amounts of steroids, but for now I've decided to simply rededicate myself to my goal. I'm certainly not gonna look like Arnold, but surely I can look a f*ck of a lot better than I currently do. My training has been pretty solid, my diet decent enough, but it lacked something. It lacked absolute dedication. So, I'm really hoping that with this journal I can make a fresh start. 'Good enough' is not good enough anymore. From now on, perfection is my mantra. Every meal. Every minute. Every day. Will I succeed? Knowing me, probably not. But I'll do my damnedest. Unfortunately, there is the ideal and there is reality, as Plato noted. Life has a way of getting in the way of perfection. But I'll certainly put forth 110% percent effort. And I hope what readers I may still have will take me to task if I start f*cking off. I might post a picture or two of myself in the next few days. We'll see.

As to the more mundane aspects of things, I'm continuing with HST. I'm returning to my 6 day a week, twice a day Arnold-inspired routine(STOP THE INSANITY!) Will it be more effective than doing full-body workouts three times a week ala cookie-cutter HST? NO, probably not. Might it even be slightly counterproductive? Yeah, probably. But it's fun. So there. My diet will be pretty much as it has been, just better. Better meal timing. Better supplement timing. Better macro breakdown. I still think that ultimately calories are what's most important, but again as the title says I'm going for 'absolute dedication'

On a further note, I received my bromocriptine this past Monday. I began taking it Tuesday. Frankly, I haven't really done any research into it. I'm just going on what's in Lyle McDonald's 'Bromocripting' e-book. Yes, dumb. But Lyle is one of the few people in whome I have almost complete faith. I haven't really read of any miraculous results of those using the stuff. McDonald himself hasn't even tried it. But it's fairly inexpensive, has a very good safety profile, and it's gray market(i.e.it's prescription, but not scheduled, and it might actually be legal if imported for personal use--not sure on that) It's not like ephedrine, or clenbuterol, or anything like that. By itself it doesn't do anything(with regard to dieting) It merely counters some of the symptoms of decreasing leptin levels that occur with dieting. We'll see how it works. Since it can't be used simultaneously with beta-agonist(i.e. ephedrine) I'm having to drop my beloved EC(Actually, one of the reasons I decided to try bromo was to force myself to take an extended breakd from EC) So, it'll have to be more effective than EC to show any effects. I'll still be having refeeds when I feel the need, but they should be much more infrequent and quite a bit less extreme.

Man, I miss my ephedrine already.


Exercise:

9:15am-9:55am: Chest/Back

(Assisted) Chins
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: -100 x 15, -100 x 7, -100 x 5
Increment: n/a
15RM: -70 @ 212

Comments:
Good concentration/tightness in mid-back. All three sets were somewhat difficult.

Incline DB Press
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 35's x 15, 35's x 5
Increment: n/a
15RM: 50's @ 101

Comments:
Somewhat difficult.

H.S. Iso-Row
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 70 x 15, 70 x 9
Increment: n/a
15RM: 100 x 15 @ 101

Comments:
Somewhat difficult.

(Assisted) Dips
Tempo: 212(1st 10,), 101(last 5)
Warmup: none
Work sets: -90 x 15, -90 x 5
Increment: n/a
15RM: -60 @ 101

Comments:
Somewhat difficult.

Machine Pullover
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 75 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 100???

Comments:
Somewhat difficult.

Incline Flyes
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 15's x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 30???

Comments:
Good concentration. Somewhat difficult.

Overall Comments
Decent enough workout. I should've gone with my gut feeling and just stuck to one set per exercise. I don't have the stamina for multiple sets during the 15's. Besides the TUL of the exercises is already quite long, so the extra sets probably don't do much anyways. So, from now on I pretty much just do one set, with an occasional extra 1-2 if I feel the need. I definitely be doing multiple sets in the 5's, and possibly in the 10's. Did I mention I miss my ephedrine?


3:50pm-4:15am: Legs

Deadlifts
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 115 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 155 @ 101

Comments:
Easy. Since I have to start submaximally, and I'm so goddamn weak this is sorta difficult. I actually used a bit more weight that ideal so the bar wouldn't be quite as low to the floor. As it was, I sorta only went down until an inch or two above the floor--that's as close as the plates ever came to touching the floor. I wanted to avoid rounding my back. But I noticed after the first few reps that without touching the floor my ROM was becoming short and this was resembling more a SLDL than a regular deadlift. I corrected, though. Next time, I'll have a 45 per side so this shouldn't be an issue.


HS Leg Extensions
Tempo: 212(1st 10), 101(last 5)
Warmup: none
Work sets: 60 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 80 @ 101

Comments:
I always forget how difficult this is, even with pathetically light weight when doing these high-reps(Too much lactate) This was way too hard, mostly due to using too slow of a tempo. Next time I use 101 from the start. After I finshed, my legs were buckling underneath me.

HS Seated Leg Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 55 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 75 @ 212

Comments:
Fairly difficult, but cake next to the leg extensions. Good concentration and form.

Calf Raise-performed on incline leg press
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 100 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 100 @ 101

Comments:
Duh. I was wondering why this was so difficult while I was doing it. The last few reps were fairly crappy. Well, turns out moron-boy used his 15RM rather than the proper weight. Duh.

Power Crunch
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 40 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 60 @ 101

Comments:
Slightly difficult.


Overall Comments
Felt a bit nauseated and light-headed after this. Not sure if it was due to my 11 days of SD combined with the 15's, the bromocriptine(nausea is a possible side-effect) or both. Probably both. Quick workout. Not too bad, either--except for feeling like sh*t at the end. Oh yeah, did I mention I miss my ephedrine?

Diet:


8:00am: 1/4 cup Steel-cut oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 1.25mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(29g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 3.5g fat)
9:00am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
9:15am-9:55am: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
10:00am: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium(35g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
12:30pm: 1 cup low-fat cottage cheese, 1 cup cantaloupe, 10g fish oil, 500mg HMB(24g carbs/1g fiber, 27g protein, 15g fat)
3:00pm: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 250mg ALA(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
3:50pm-4:15pm: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
4:15pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ALA(35g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
5:30pm: 2oz beef jerky, 10 fish oil caps, 500mg HMB(16g carbs/0g fiber, 26g protein, 12g fat)
8:30pm: 3oz tuna in water, 1tbsp olive oil, 6oz uncooked broccoli/cauliflower/carrot medley, 1tbsp ranch dressing, 500mg HMB(10g carbs/4g fiber, 23g protein, 22g fat)
12:00am: 1oz peanuts, 1/2 cup low-fat cottage cheese, 500mg HMB(10g carbs/3g fiber, 20g protein, 15.5g fat)
12:15pm: 3mg melatonin, 400mg magnesium

Totals:
Calories: 2701kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 225g/20g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 208g/80g
Fat:81g

Comments:
Perfect, from meal timing to composition to supplement intake. Only failing: too little fiber. Since I've been eating a bit above maintenance, I'm gonna wait a week or two to drop my calories down further(or not if I lose weight) because I'm freakin' starving as it is. This went down exactly as planned. Sh*t, I'd hope so. It's only the first day.

Weight: 210lbs

Sleep: 8 hours.

Misc: Nope.

MonStar
10-09-2002, 09:59 PM
Keep up the great detailed journal B&I, seriously. Hehe I am glad that you changed up the way you post your diet---with the "list" or whatever its called. Its much easier to read now.

Keep it up man! :thumbup::thumbup:

Marcel
10-09-2002, 11:57 PM
Sweet.

Remember perfection is your mantra.

:thumbup:

Mystic Eric
10-10-2002, 02:27 AM
Oh my god! How long does it take you to type out your journal each day??? :eek:

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-10-2002, 06:18 AM
Good luck man.

I bet it's just the dieting that's messign with your head.

galileo
10-10-2002, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron
From now on, perfection is my mantra [/B]

Schlonkey is my mantra.


Nice to see you in a new, "rededicated" journal. I'll be watching!

rookiebldr
10-10-2002, 07:04 AM
I can't honestly believe that you have not been dedicated enough, detailed enough or consistent enough to achieve your goals. :) You have raised the bar again and I wish you all the best in achieving your goals. I have every faith that you will indeed find the secret formula (no, I'm not referring to gear here but to all aspects of training, eating, sleeping and supplementing) to gain the size with the correct amount of bodyfat that you desire.

I will continue to look forward to reading this new journal and gleaming whatever modicum of information that I can, to help me achieve my goals. :thumbup:

Blood&Iron
10-10-2002, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Mystic Eric
Oh my god! How long does it take you to type out your journal each day??? :eek:
On a typical workout day: 1-2 hours.
On a non-workout day: 30min-1 hour.
Yesterday: 2-3 hours. That was partly because I was starting from scratch to a degree(I can just quote my previous posts from now on) and because I succumbed to the delusion that I'm a writer.

Blood&Iron
10-10-2002, 07:33 AM
Thanks to all for the encouragement.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-10-2002, 07:39 AM
You're a good writer.

I like reading your blab :)

galileo
10-10-2002, 07:56 AM
Bromo Arigato Mr. Roboto.

Bromo. (bromo.)

Bromo. (bromo.)

rookiebldr
10-10-2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
You're a good writer.

I like reading your blab :)

:nod:

MonStar
10-10-2002, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron
On a typical workout day: 1-2 hours.
On a non-workout day: 30min-1 hour.
Yesterday: 2-3 hours. That was partly because I was starting from scratch to a degree(I can just quote my previous posts from now on) and because I succumbed to the delusion that I'm a writer.

JESUS! :eek::eek:

I like to think my journal is fairly detailed, and I spend about 15-20 minutes per day. Then again I type around 65-70 WPM. I dont know why I have never really taken any keyboarding classes or anything. It always just came very easy for me.

Erbas
10-10-2002, 09:22 AM
Hello B&I, I too am interested in trying the bromo. I recently ordered my bromo and expect it in 2-3 weeks. I'm glad to see you're keeping a journal and I'm definitely looking forward to your perception of the results. Are you trying to cut or bulk up without putting too much fat? I'm trying to cut (shaved my gotee only to reveal a second chin, so it's either grow it back or lose some FAT). Oh, which brings me to a second question....have you tried or heard anything about that cutting jel for spot reduction?...thinking about putting it on my second chin.

Good luck with the bromo and I look forward to seeing if it does any good! I'll do the same when I get my bromo.....hopefully I get it....these online pharmacies don't particularly give me the warm and fuzzies

TMan
10-10-2002, 09:24 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing how the bromocriptine works out for ya. You are one of the most dedicated people I've seen around here yet you always strive to better. I admire that. :thumbup:

MonStar
10-10-2002, 09:48 AM
I kinda stole some of your journal layout ideas B&I. Hehe hope you dont mind! ;);)

Accipiter
10-10-2002, 09:56 AM
"(Probably between the hulking, rusted shells of several of Monstar's journals)"

baaahahahha. Interesting diet...geez, up until 2 days ago I was eating twice a day. looks like I gots a while to go :)

Jane
10-10-2002, 12:55 PM
Have you considered having some kind of morning daily reminder? Maybe writing your mantra on a post-it each morning and sticking it on the mirror? Or something small, but daily?

Just an idea. :)

(and I think you're not only a writer, but a good one as well)

ectx
10-10-2002, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron

'Friends applaud. The comedy is over.'

Yes, I have cast that comical,rambling tale of my bodybuilding foibles, failings, and (very occasional) triumphs known as 'Hell, why not?' into the deep. Like some ship that has outlived its time, it will silently sink to the bottom of this sea of ether, coming at last to rest at the murky bottom(Probably between the hulking, rusted shells of several of Monstar's journals). Why, you may ask yourself, has B&I done such a thing? What would possess him to consign something to which so much time had been devoted, in which such a tale of heroism and tragedy unfolded, which had consumed his very life, to oblivion?

Poetry I tell you. Sheer poetry. Now stop sulking. You're one of the most dedicated in here. Glad your jounal's back up.

GeneticallyGifted
10-10-2002, 04:12 PM
B&I,

Your statment that you are re-dedicating yourself is unbelievable. As most have said you have been and are one of the most dedicated already here.

Simply Uncanny

GG

Blood&Iron
10-10-2002, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by galileo
Bromo Arigato Mr. Roboto.

Bromo. (bromo.)

Bromo. (bromo.)
Share. What's the reference?

Blood&Iron
10-10-2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by MonStar


JESUS! :eek::eek:

I like to think my journal is fairly detailed, and I spend about 15-20 minutes per day. Then again I type around 65-70 WPM. I dont know why I have never really taken any keyboarding classes or anything. It always just came very easy for me.
I don't know why it takes so long. I type quite quickly too, at least 70-80wpm.

MonStar
10-10-2002, 07:40 PM
(Probably between the hulking, rusted shells of several of Monstar's journals)

At least its in a good place B&I. Hehe, lol I am just f*cking with you B&I its all good. I just noticed this remark hehe---pretty clever man. Good luck with the rededication. The "re" is just ridiculous man you were plenty dedicated in "Hell, why not?"

galileo
10-10-2002, 07:52 PM
Mr. Roboto by Styx. Download it if you can ;)

Blood&Iron
10-10-2002, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Erbas
Hello B&I, I too am interested in trying the bromo. I recently ordered my bromo and expect it in 2-3 weeks. I'm glad to see you're keeping a journal and I'm definitely looking forward to your perception of the results. Are you trying to cut or bulk up without putting too much fat?

Cutting.



I'm trying to cut (shaved my gotee only to reveal a second chin, so it's either grow it back or lose some FAT). Oh, which brings me to a second question....have you tried or heard anything about that cutting jel for spot reduction?...thinking about putting it on my second chin.

Cutting Gel by Nutrasport is worthless. It is a very expensive topical diuretic. Yohimbine containing products like Lipoderm-Y, from Avant Labs, is a good product. I've made quite a few posts on it(results, proper usage, etc) which you should find with a search on my username and 'Lipoderm'. There is also a good article on the science of topical fat loss aids at:
www.avantlabs.com
If you still have any questions after reading the above, feel free to ask.




Good luck with the bromo and I look forward to seeing if it does any good! I'll do the same when I get my bromo.....hopefully I get it....these online pharmacies don't particularly give me the warm and fuzzies
I know what you mean...

Blood&Iron
10-10-2002, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Jane
Have you considered having some kind of morning daily reminder? Maybe writing your mantra on a post-it each morning and sticking it on the mirror? Or something small, but daily?

Well, I've got several pictures of Arnold at his peak, one of Larry Scott and one of Reg Park on my bathroom mirror. That's sorta my reminder.



Just an idea. :)

(and I think you're not only a writer, but a good one as well)

Thanks. That was just my usual self-flagellation. Force of habit. I actually think I'm a decent writer too.

Blood&Iron
10-10-2002, 08:56 PM
Thursday October 10, 2002

Ramblings
Well, this is the third day I've been on bromo. I've only been taking 1.25mg, and will gradually work up to the recommended 5mg. This is to minimize side effects. Still, even at this low dosage there are a few. Stuffy nose in the few hours after taking it. Slight, persistant headache. And, as I noted in my entry yesterday, a bit of light-headedness/dizziness/nausea after my leg workout yesterday. It does seem to be curbing my appetite, though, even at this low dosage(Although, this could well be because I've improved my diet quite a bit) Still, since I was using ephedrine, it's hard for me to believe diet composition is solely responsible. I'm hoping the side effects subside. I'll probably go three more days or so before jumping up to 2.5mg.

In an utterly unrelated note, I got an email today from a company to which I submitted a resume at a university job fair a couple of weeks ago. Dunno if anything will come of it. Only part that would suck would be I'd have to commute to Detroit(about 45ming) Bleh. There are some cooler, local companies I'm hoping will also contact me(one is designing a 3D engine for military simulators and another does AI stuff to control airplanes in combat simulators) But, since I've been feeling like a total loser lately, it's nice to hear that at least SOMEONE would consider hiring me.

This entry took 55min for anyone wondering...

Exercise:

10:50am-11:12am: Biceps/Triceps/Shoulders

Preacher Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 35 x 15, 35 x 6
Increment: n/a
15RM: 55

Comments:
Both sets slightly difficult. Decent concentration.

Tricep Pushdown
Tempo: 212(1st 7 reps), 101(last 8)
Warmup: none
Work sets: 100 x 15, 100 x 5
Increment: n/a
15RM: 140

Comments:
Both slightly difficult.

Reverse Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 20 x 15, 20 x 7
Increment: n/a
15RM: 35???

Comments:
2nd set slightly difficult. Good burn.

Life Fitness Machine Lateral
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45 x 15, 45 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: no freaking clue

Comments:
Didn't pretest this, but since I'm weak it's difficult to practice proper progression with HST for certain exercises(I end up using the same weights for 3+ workout) Using this makes it much easier. Just sorta guessed at a starting weight. Seemed pretty on target. Great burn.

Reverse Pec Deck
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45 x 15, 45 x 9
Increment: n/a
15RM: 75

Comments:
Good burn.

Wrist Curl
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 60

Comments:
Quite easy.

Overall Comments
Pretty decent workout. Very quick. I recently realized I have to approach working out sans ephedrine differently than when on it. It's a more laid back vibe, not the war-like mentality I usually have. I thought I was having crappy workouts when off, until I realized this. So this workout was fun, but in a different way.


7:15pm-7:45pm: Cardio

Incline Treadmill
Time: 30min
Incline: 15degrees
Calories burned(inaccurate): 520kcal

Comments:
Wasn't gonna do this, because I was tired and felt a bit worn out. But I ended up going anyway. Seemed a bit more onerous than usual. Maybe the lack of ephedrine(though I did take some caffine and l-tyrosine) Oh yeah, Cardio sucks.


Diet:


9:00am: 1/4 cup Steel-cut oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 1.25mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(29g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 3.5g fat)
10:20am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 250mg ALA(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
10:50am-11:12am: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
11:15am: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
1:30pm: 1 cup low-fat cottage cheese, 2 cups baby romaine lettuce, 1oz mushrooms, 1tbsp olive oil, 2tbsp balsamic, 500mg HMB(14g carbs/2g fiber, 26g protein, 19g fat)
4:15pm: 3oz tuna, 1 cup cantaloupe, 1.5tbsp olive oil, 1/2 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1/2oz mushrooms, 500mg HMB(16g carbs/2g fiber, 20g protein, 22g fat)
6:15pm: 2oz beef jerky, 10 fish oil caps, 500mg HMB, 200mg caffeine(16g carbs/0g fiber, 26g protein, 12g fat)
6:30pm: 2g l-tyrosine
7:15pm-7:45pm; Kool-aid with Splenda, 10g BCAA's, 10g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide
8:00pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
9:30pm: 4oz salmon, 1.5 cups frozen asparagus/corn/carrots, 10g fish oil, 2 sugar-free Jello snack packs(22g carbs/4g fiber, 28g protein, 22g fat)
11:00pm: 1 cup skim milk, 1 scoop HSN Driver, 3mg melatonin, 400mg magnesium, 1g HMB, 30mg l-opti-zinc(17g carbs/4g fiber, 30g protein, 2g fat)

Totals:
Calories: 2695kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 207g/24g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 221g/65g
Fat: 91g

Comments:
Almost perfect. Bit low in fiber, though. I'd like to see it at 35-40g a day. I probably should buy some Citrucel or something.


Weight: ???

Sleep: 8 hours.

Miscelleneous: Nope.

Frozenmoses
10-10-2002, 09:16 PM
Awesome journal. Best of luck to you, my brotha.

Blood&Iron
10-10-2002, 09:23 PM
Tman, ectc, GG, FrozenMoses, Monstar, and anyone I may have missed--

Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. WBB is really a one of a kind community. I cant think any other site where the members so freely offer their support. Thanks again.

Marcel
10-11-2002, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron
Thursday October 10, 2002

Life Fitness Machine Lateral
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45 x 15, 45 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: no freaking clue

Hey be careful when you're movin that kinda weight! :p
We have a couple of those machines at my gym. They really isolate the delts. Good stuff.


Diet:
1:30pm: 1 cup low-fat cottage cheese, 2 cups baby romaine lettuce, 1oz mushrooms, 1tbsp olive oil, 2tbsp balsamic, 500mg HMB(14g carbs/2g fiber, 26g protein, 19g fat)
[/B]

What kind of crazy meal is that !?! :eek:

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-11-2002, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron
[I]
But, since I've been feeling like a total loser lately, it's nice to hear that at least SOMEONE would consider hiring me.



Seriously dude, you gotta stop being negative.

I think it's just an accumulation of looking for employment, dieting messing with your head and a general need to vent that you're feeling like this.

Can't you go find a punch bag somewhere and beat the sh!t outta it? :D

Blood&Iron
10-11-2002, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Marcel


What kind of crazy meal is that !?! :eek:
Cottage cheese and a salad(Olive oil and balsamic vinegar can be used together as a sort of dressing. It's quite good.)

Blood&Iron
10-11-2002, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



Seriously dude, you gotta stop being negative.

Unfortunately, that's part of my personality. I'm a horribly negative person. I try not to be too bad in here, as it's pretty annoying to read negative sh*t all the time, but it often slips out anyways.

Since I took a week off, dieting's not at fault. Not having a job isn't helping, though.

Erbas
10-11-2002, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the reply B&I! My simple understanding regarding bromo is it in effect keeps leptin levels up while dieting. which will prevent the metabolism drop that accompanies the caloric deficit. Obviously the hope of bromo supplementation is keeping the metabolism up. Do you think monitoring body temp in the morning is a somewhat reliable indicator? IE: lower Temp = lower metabolism, higher Temp=higher metabolism...

I remember Lyle McDonald used morning body temp to monitor his metabolism back in his early experimentation with the low carb diet. (Ketogenic Diet)

Do you know of any other means of metabolism monitoring? I would like to solicit comments form anyone else reading this thread as well. ( essentially riding the popularity coat tails of B&I)

MonStar
10-11-2002, 09:14 AM
I agree with Robboe B&I---you gotta stop being so damn negative! Youre being way too hard on yourself. I used to be the same way, all anal about counting calories, and grams of foods, etc. I look back on that now and wonder what the f*ck I was thinking. I dont know how the hell I lived like that. I am so much more relaxed now and much happier.

Blood&Iron
10-11-2002, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
I agree with Robboe B&I---you gotta stop being so damn negative! Youre being way too hard on yourself. I used to be the same way, all anal about counting calories, and grams of foods, etc. I look back on that now and wonder what the f*ck I was thinking. I dont know how the hell I lived like that. I am so much more relaxed now and much happier.
I don't really think that one has anything to do with the other. But thanks for the concern.

Blood&Iron
10-11-2002, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Erbas
Thanks for the reply B&I! My simple understanding regarding bromo is it in effect keeps leptin levels up while dieting. which will prevent the metabolism drop that accompanies the caloric deficit. Obviously the hope of bromo supplementation is keeping the metabolism up. Do you think monitoring body temp in the morning is a somewhat reliable indicator? IE: lower Temp = lower metabolism, higher Temp=higher metabolism...

I remember Lyle McDonald used morning body temp to monitor his metabolism back in his early experimentation with the low carb diet. (Ketogenic Diet)

Bromo doesn't keep leptin up, so much as mimick its effects. You have Lyle's e-book, right? He goes into this a fair amount of detail on this subject.

As for measuring body temp, I think Lyle might also mention this in the book. I've never personally bothered. Perhaps I should. I go more by subjective feelings of fatigue, greatly increased appetite, etc, which accompany low leptin levels.



Do you know of any other means of metabolism monitoring? I would like to solicit comments form anyone else reading this thread as well. ( essentially riding the popularity coat tails of B&I)
See above.

Blood&Iron
10-11-2002, 07:30 PM
Friday October 11, 2002

Ramblings
Been feeling a little crappy lately due to the bromo. Mostly just a bit of lethargy and slight headache. I'll probably start taking 200mg caffeine a couple times a day to counter these. The side-effects seem to be lessening, so I'll stay on 1.25mg for awhile longer, before moving up to 2.5mg. On another forum, someone suggested using nicotine gum along with 2.5mg bromo, rather than the full 5mg so as to minimize side-effects. I'm a bit worried about the addictive potential of nicotine gum. Actually, even at 1.25mg the bromo seems to be working(though it could easily just be my improved diet/new determination that's responsible) so I may not even need to increase my dose.

Exercise:

11:05am-11:37am: Chest/Back


(Assisted) Chins
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: -90 x 15, -90 x 5
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: -70 @ 212

Comments:
Good concentration. Both sets slightly difficult.

Incline DB Press
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 40's x 15
Increment: +5lbs per DB
15RM: 50's @ 101

Comments:
Quite difficult. Probalby should've used a bit faster of a tempo.

H.S. Iso-Row
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 80 x 15, 80 x 8
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: 100 x 15 @ 101

Comments:
Very easy. Decent concentration.

(Assisted) Dips
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: -80 x 15
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: -60 @ 101

Comments:
Quite easy. Decent concentration.

Machine Pullover
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 82.5 x 15
Increment: +7.5lbs
15RM: 100???

Comments:
Fairly easy. Crappy concentration--felt this mostly in my triceps.

Incline Flyes
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 15's x 15
Increment: none
15RM: 30???

Comments:
Fairly easy, but I had some cramping in my hands which made it difficult to concentrate.

Overall Comments
Pretty decent workout.


6:20pm-6:50am: Legs

Horizontal Leg Press
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 135 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM:

Comments:
Very easy. Good burn, though.

HS Seated Leg Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 60 x 15, 60 x 5
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 75 @ 212

Comments:
Good burn. Slighlty difficult.

HS Leg Extensions
Tempo: 211(1st 7), 101(last 8)
Warmup: none
Work sets: 65 x 15
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 80 @ 101

Comments:
Extremely difficult. Thought I'd sped up the tempo, but I think I need to make this even a little faster.

Calf Raise-performed on incline leg press
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 75 x 15, 75 x 6
Increment: none
15RM: 100 @ 101

Comments:
Fairly difficult.

Power Crunch
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 60 @ 101

Comments:
Quite difficult. I need to increase my tempo here next time.


Overall Comments
Decent workout. Nothing too notable.


Diet:


9:00am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1.25mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(27g carbs/4g fiber, 4g protein, 3g fat)
10:30am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 10g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 250mg ALA, 500mg HMB(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
11:05am-11:37am: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
11:40am: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
1:30pm: 2oz beef jerky, 2 cups baby romaine lettuce, 1oz mushrooms, 2tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1tbsp olive oil, 1 sugar-free Jello snack pack, 500mg HMB(20g carbs/2g fiber, 29g protein, 16g fat)
4:00pm: 3oz tuna, 1tbsp olive oil, 1oz peanuts(6g carbs/3g fiber, 26g protein, 27g fat)
5:40pm: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 10g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 250mg ALA(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
6:20pm-6:50pm: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 10g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
7:00pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
9:30pm: 4oz chicken, 2tbsp BBQ sauce, 1.5 cups frozen corn/asparagus/carrots, 10g fish oil, 1 sugar-free jello snack pack, 500mg HMB(35g carbs/4g fiber, 39g protein, 15g fat)
10:30pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 3mg melatonin, 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc, 5g fish oil(5g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 7g fat)

Totals:
Calories: 2705kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 219g/25g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 205g/95g
Fat: 81g

Comments:
Solid. Again a bit low in fiber, though.


Weight: 208lbs

Sleep: 6.5 quality hours +1.5 crappy restless hours

Miscelleneous Nope.

Marcel
10-11-2002, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron

Cottage cheese and a salad(Olive oil and balsamic vinegar can be used together as a sort of dressing. It's quite good.)

Hmmm...I think the reason why I saw it being weird is because I don't like cottage cheese and ditto on the dressing. lol. :p

Marcel
10-11-2002, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron
Friday October 11, 2002

Ramblings
Been feeling a little crappy lately due to the bromo. Mostly just a bit of lethargy and slight headache. I'll probably start taking 200mg caffeine a couple times a day to counter these. The side-effects seem to be lessening, so I'll stay on 1.25mg for awhile longer, before moving up to 2.5mg. On another forum, someone suggested using nicotine gum along with 2.5mg bromo, rather than the full 5mg so as to minimize side-effects. I'm a bit worried about the addictive potential of nicotine gum. Actually, even at 1.25mg the bromo seems to be working(though it could easily just be my improved diet/new determination that's responsible) so I may not even need to increase my dose.


I read that too. About using nicotine gum along with 2.5mg bromo rather than the full 5mg. Sounds interesting.

Keep up the good work.

Hey! I just noticed something...what happened to the baked ziti meal ? lol @me.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-11-2002, 08:15 PM
I'm not advertising this fact in any way, shape or form, but i've been using nicotine for the past two weeks and i seem to be getting good results.

At first i used 2 days on, two days off, but i've actually used for the past 5 days running, lately, due to my lack of refeeding/carb loads, however you want to look at it.

Blood&Iron
10-11-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Marcel

Hey! I just noticed something...what happened to the baked ziti meal ? lol @me.
Too many carbs if I want to stay near isocaloric and still have my workout shakes.

Marcel
10-11-2002, 08:26 PM
ziti ! ziti ! ziti !






Sorry bout that



:D

Blood&Iron
10-13-2002, 04:03 PM
Saturday October 12, 2002

Ramblings
Bleh.

Exercise:

10:05am-10:35am: Biceps/Triceps/Shoulders

Incline Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 15's x 15, 15's x 5
Increment: n/a
15RM: 20's x 101(x)

Comments:
Both sets were very easy. Decent concentration.

Decline Pronating DB Extensions
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 15's x 5, 15's x 5
Increment: n/a
15RM: 20's @ 101(x)

Comments:
1st set was easy. 2nd slightly difficult.

Reverse Curl
Tempo: 211
Warmup: none
Work sets: 25 x 15, 25 x 10
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 30???

Comments:
1st set was incredibly easy. 2nd easy. Very good burn.

Lying Read Delt Lateral
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets:
Right: 12 x 15
Left: 12 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 15 @ 101

Comments:
Somewhat difficult and okay burn for right arm. Quite difficult and great burn for right arm.

Hammer Strength Behind-the-neck Press
Tempo: 202
Warmup: none
Work sets: 100 x 15, 100 x 5
Increment: n/a
15RM: 130 @ 101(x)

Comments:
Both sets fairly difficult. Good burn.

Wrist Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45 x 15
Increment: none
15RM: 60

Comments:
Fairly difficult. Good burn.

Overall Comments
Pretty decent workout.


Diet:


8:00am: 1 cup Puffed Kashi, 1 cup skim milk, 1.25mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(38g carbs/4g fiber, 12g protein, 1g fat)
9:30am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 10g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 250mg ALA(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
10:05am-10:35am: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 10g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
10:40am: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
12:30pm: 2oz beef jerky, 10 fish oil caps, 500mg HMB(16g carbs/0g fiber, 26g protein, 12g fat)
2:30pm: OptiPro Meal Replacement Bar, 5g fish oil, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB(40g carbs/1g fiber, 20g protein, 15g fat)
4:30pm: 6oz uncooked broccoli/cauliflower/carrots, 1tbsp ranch dressing, 500mg HMB(10g carbs/4g fiber, 4g protein, 7g fat)
7:30pm: 3oz tuna, 1tbsp olive oil, 6oz uncooked broccoli/cauliflower/carrots, 1 tbsp ranch dressing, 500mg HMB(11g carbs/4g fiber, 23g protein, 21g fat)
10:00pm: Burger King--chicken whopper[meat + 2 bites of bun], 500mg HMB(10g carbs/0g fiber, 30g protein, 10g fat)
11:30pm: 4oz beef jerky(20g carbs/0g fiber, 60g protein, 2g fat)
12:00pm: 2/3 serving Fiber Psyll, 5g fish oil(10g carbs/10g fiber, 0g protein, 5g fat)

Totals:
Calories: 2551kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 218g/27g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 218g/50g
Fat: 79.5g

Comments:
Goddamn was I hungry today. I was very tempted to cheat. Plus the fact I had spaghetti and chocolate cake being offered to me, and dragged to fast food restaurants made things a bit tough. Previously, I would have just given in. But I stuck to my guns, got my little bag of vegetables and dressing out of my bag and said "No thank you. I don't need a piece of chocolate cake.' Not perfect--and very surprisingly a bit low in calories(Well, not surprising given how goddamn hungry I was) I even did okay with my fiber. Major victory. Funnily enough, though, I may have been due for a refeed and I might have just shot myself in the foot by ignoring my body's signals. It's a no-win situation.


Weight: 207

Sleep: 8.5 hours.

Miscelleneous:

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-13-2002, 04:08 PM
How often are you refeeding right now?

Blood&Iron
10-13-2002, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
How often are you refeeding right now?
Since I'm using the bromo which should obviate the need for refeeds I'd planned on (relatively) small refeeds about once a week just for psychological reasons. Haven't completely decided what they will exactly entail. Probably one or two meals of quite high carbs and low fat(Maybe some spaghetti and low-fat cupcakes) I might have a minor one tonight, though, as I've been feeling quite shitty today and have eaten almost nothing today as a result. Plus the fact that I was REALLY hungry yesterday, and am still at a very low dose of bromo, which might not really even be doing anything yet--other than causing some mildly annoying side-effects.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-13-2002, 04:18 PM
But you're retaining muslce ok so far, yeah?

Blood&Iron
10-13-2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
But you're retaining muslce ok so far, yeah?
Dunno. Haven't been able to have my bodyfat tested. Besides I'm a bit worried the guy who is doing it now is screwing things up(as my last abortive attempt at having it measured was looking like some skinfolds had gone up. My ass) so I don't know how valid the numbers are anyway. I'm going to look into being hydrostatically weighted.

I did try to have my bf% tested Friday evening prior to my workout, but I put on lotion before going to the gym(I'm paranoid about getting any more goddamn stretch marks) and it made it too difficult for the guy to pinch my skin.

My rate of weight loss is concerning me a bit, though. I was down to 206lbs this morning. I know it's probably glycogen, etc but it's still a bit disconcerting to see the numbers drop so quickly.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-13-2002, 04:29 PM
4lbs in 3 days eh?

Are you beginning to look visibly leaner?

Blood&Iron
10-13-2002, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
4lbs in 3 days eh?

Are you beginning to look visibly leaner?
I edited my post while you were posting ths. Obviously, I haven't lost 4lbs of fat(or muscle, thankfully) in 4-5 days. It's probably mostly reduced glycogen due to having lowered my carb-intake. I think I look slightly leaner, but I'm a horrible judge.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-13-2002, 04:42 PM
You should take some snaps now so in a month you can compare and then take more and compare them after 2 month etc...

Blood&Iron
10-13-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
You should take some snaps now so in a month you can compare and then take more and compare them after 2 month etc...
Yeah, I know. I just REALLY hate getting in front of a camera. I've been meaning to have pics taken forever. It'd make for an interesting comparison, as I'm currently I'm at about the same weight I was when I had my previous round of photos taken(over a year ago)

Blood&Iron
10-13-2002, 09:03 PM
Sunday October 13, 2002

Ramblings
Well, the first little bump in the road to perfection. I occasionally get stomach/upper GI pains which can be quite painful. Still don't know the cause and since they don't occur more than once every 3-4 months I don't see the point in seeing a doctor. Anyways, I felt like sh*t today. When I woke up, I thought I was just really hungry. I ate and then started feeling a little worse. A few hours later I decided I needed to have my next meal. As my stomach was bothering me, I just had some cereal and a protein shake. I felt progressively crappier and crappier and ended up spening most of the day laying on my side waiting for the pain to subside. I induced vomiting at one point, and felt a little better. I realized after that having a casein shake was monumentally stupid. It clots in the gut and slows gastric emptying. Not exactly what you probably want when you have a stomach ache.

On the upside, I now know for a fact that casein does form a gel-like substance in the stomach(Not that it was ever in doubt.) It's sorta like those art, gum erasers. Interesting nonetheless.

Pretty damn disgusting, but hey IT'S SCIENCE.

Exercise:
None.

Diet:


10:00am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 cup skim milk, 1.25mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C, 10g fish oil, 500mg HMB(27g carbs/4g fiber, 13g protein, 13g fat)
1:30pm: 1/2 cup OptiSlim cereal, 1.5 cups skim milk, 1 scoop HSN Driver(50g carbs/8g fiber, 39g protein, 3g fat)
7:00pm: 2.5 falafal patties, 3tbsp hummus(50g carbs/4g fiber, 15g protein, 10g fat)
9:00pm: 1 cup OptiSlim cereal, 1 cup milk(62g carbs/8g fiber, 16g protein, 2g fat)
11:00pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 cup skim milk, 400mg magnesium, 3mg melatonin, 30mg l-opti-zinc(17g carbs/4g fiber, 30g protein, 2g fat)

Totals:
Calories: 1424kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 206g/28g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 113g/0g
Fat: 30g

Comments:
Uhh...complete sh*t. Hardly any protein. Basically starvation calories. Didn't really have much choice, though.


Weight: 206lbs

Sleep: 9 hours.

Miscelleneous: Nope.

waterbuckat
10-13-2002, 10:59 PM
When you get your routine checkup or something let your doctor know about the stomach pains maybe. I was sick Saturday, I hate it!

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-14-2002, 07:54 AM
You ever had a problem/problems with (a) stomach ulcer?

Blood&Iron
10-14-2002, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
You ever had a problem/problems with (a) stomach ulcer?
Never diagnosed, no. It is quite possible that's that what this is. I suppose I dismissed the possibility as I told my stepfather(who is an M.D.) about my symptoms, and for whatever reason that possibility didn't enter his mind. I suppose I should have an endoscopic examination to check. Whatever it is, it sucks ass when it flares up. Still feel slightly 'off' today, but not too bad.

EDIT: Not being at all familiar with this subject, I asked my stepfather what he thought of this possibility and he said if it was an ulcer, I'd be in pretty much constant pain--not just having occurences every 3-4 months. Nor did he think an endoscopic examination would turn anything up.

Blood&Iron
10-14-2002, 05:41 PM
Monday October 14, 2002

Ramblings
Had my bodyfat tested this morning. Let's say it went a bit worse than I'd hoped. I came in at a whopping 16.9%. I'm not even going to bother making the pretty little tables with each measurement; I'm too pissed off. Frankly, I don't see how this is possible. Either the guy I have taking the measurements is seriously f*cking up(which, while entirely possible, is probably not the problem) or I'm doing something retarded in my dieting and/or training(what that might be, I have no freakin' clue). Or I simply have the shittiest genetics for losing fat on this earth. I really don't understand this. I may simply stop having bf% tests done, as it's very disheartenening to see no drop WHATSOEVER in the measurements after devoting the majority of my energies to this goal. I have a hard time buying that I'm at 17% from my appearance; I'd say I'm around 14-15%. I am seriously looking into being hydrostatically weighed, as it least I'd have some faith in the measurement. In any event, I'll continue as I have. This minor setback does not deter me. Sometimes I do wonder, though. If the results of this test are accurate, I have made essentially NO progress in the last year. Considering the fact that bodybuilding has be my raison d'etre during this time, this is a horrifying thought. It does force me to question what I'm doing a bit. I still don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the approach I've been taking(which has changed a good deal over this period). I suppose it's possible I'm near my genetic limit. That's a bit hard for me to buy, especially considering my truly pathetic strength. I wonder if focusing on strength(using Westside or something similar) and increasing my neurological efficiency(and thereby allowing me to use heavier weights) would allow me to start making more progress hypertrophically. I dunno. I'm floating the idea in my head. Guess, we'll see.

I also upped my bromocriptein dosage to 2.5mg a day. I was a bit worried as at 1.25mg the side effects were already a bit annoying. At least today, they seemed no worse. I've decided that being on bromo(at least in my case) feels like coming off high dose EC. Headache and lethargy are the biggies. The stuff nose thing seems to have subsided a bit. I take an occasional caffeine pill to lessen these, as I refuse to take any NSAIDs. I'll probably stay at 2.5 for a week, before moving up to 3.25mg.


Exercise:

11:00am-11:35am: Chest/Back


(Assisted) Chins
Tempo: 211
Warmup: none
Work sets: -80 x 15, -80 x 4
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: -70 @ 212

Comments:
1st set was fairly difficult. Too much bicep involvement as fatigue set in. 2nd set was fairly easy.

Incline DB Press
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45's x 15, 45's x 4
Increment: +5lbs per DB
15RM: 50's @ 101

Comments:
Fairly difficult.

H.S. Iso-Row
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 90 x 15, 90 x 6
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: 100 x 15 @ 101

Comments:
Fairly easy. Decent concentration.

(Assisted) Dips
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: -70 x 15, -70 x 5
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: -60 @ 101

Comments:
Fairly easy. So-so concentration.

Machine Pullover
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 90 x 15
Increment: +7.5lbs
15RM: 100???

Comments:
Slightly difficult. As last time, felt this mostly in the long head of my triceps--crap.

Incline Flyes
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 15's x 15, 15's x 8
Increment: none
15RM: 30???

Comments:
Fairly easy. This is the same workout for the 3rd straight workout which runs counter to HST principles. But I'm doing this more because I enjoy it than because it's worth doing.

Overall Comments
Decent workout.


4:27pm-4:52pm: Legs

Deadlifts
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 135 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 175 x 15???

Comments:
Quite easy. My stomach started bothering me again a little this afternoon(see yesterday's ramblings for a more complete explanation) Felt a bit bloated, so it was difficult to concentrate. As a result, I think my form/concentration was less than perfect. I actually should've probably used 155 here considering the speed at which I performed this.

HS Seated Leg Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 65 x 15, 65 x 5
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 75 @ 212

Comments:
Fairly easy. Great concentration and burn.

HS Leg Extensions
Tempo: 101(x)
Warmup: none
Work sets: 70 x 15
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 80 @ 101

Comments:
These have been a b*tch the last few times(I was shaking near the end of my sets and my knees buckled under me when standing up afterwards) so I sped up my tempo considerably. Only slightly difficult as a result. Not nearly the lactate accumulation that occurs at a slower tempo. Dunno if this was good or bad. Whatever. They are leg extensions after all.

Calf Raise-performed on incline leg press
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 87.5 x 15, 87.5 x 6
Increment: none
15RM: 100 @ 101

Comments:
Fairly easy. Odd considering this were somewhat difficult last time at a 12.5lbs less. Must be some combination of the facts that last time I used the leg press rather than deadlifting, and I did my leg curls directly before this, rather than leg extensions.

Power Crunch
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 50 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 60 @ 101

Comments:
This was very difficult last time, so I sped up my tempo from 212. Still somewhat difficult.


Overall Comments
Other than the deadlifts, quite a good workout. A pleasant surprise considering I felt fairly sh*tty going into it.


Diet:


9:00am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 2.5mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(30g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 4.5g fat)
10:30am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 250mg ALA, 500mg HMB(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
11:00am-11:35am: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
11:40am: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
1:30pm: 5oz grilled chicken breast, 1tbsp BBQ sauce, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1 tbsp olive oil, 3 cups baby romaine lettuce, 1 sugar free jello, 5g fish oil, 500mg HMB(12g carbs/2g fiber, 40g protein, 24g fat)
4:00pm: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 10g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 250mg ALA(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
4:30pm-4:52pm: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
5:00pm 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
7:30pm: 5oz chicken, 1tbsp BBQ sauce, 6oz salad, 2tbsp fat free/carb free ranch dressing, 3 sugar free/fat free cookies, 10g fish oil, 500mg HMB(20g carbs/3g fiber, 40g protein, 18g fat)
10:00pm: 1 cup cottage cheese, 1 serving Fiber-Psyll, 500mg HMB, 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc, 5g fish oil(24g carbs/13g fiber, 26g protein, 10g fat)

Totals:
Calories: 2631kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 212g/31g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 218g/80g
Fat: 79.5g

Comments:
Essentially perfect.

I've been losing weight way too quickly(5lbs in 5 days) If this continues, I'll up my calories to 3000kcal.



Weight: 205lbs--yikes.

Sleep: 8 hours.

Miscelleneous Nah.

MonStar
10-15-2002, 06:26 AM
205 lbs. @ 16.9% bodyfat? That does seem a bit unrealistic. I mean its possible but from what you have described I would guess you would be around 11-13%. Certainly not 17%---until you get hydrostatically measured I really wouldnt think anything of it.

Erbas
10-15-2002, 08:03 AM
I wouldn't put too much faith in the BF% results. I tried getting 3 in a row done one time and came up with a 5% spread between the highest and lowest. I just measure my waist....not scientific, but when trying to see the elusive 6 pack that's where I want to see the results of my efforts. I exhale completely and tighten by abs...then measure around the same place without causing little indents in the love handles with the tape. I know I could be gaining/losing fat in other areas that won't show in the waist, but the "belly" is my area of concern.

Point being...don't let the BF% results dull your motivation...not that that is possible given what I've seen from you on WBB!

Blood&Iron
10-15-2002, 04:54 PM
Tuesday October 15, 2002

Ramblings
Almost no side effects from the bromo today, which was nice. Could be due to any one of the following. If I feel as good tomorrow, I'll jump up to 3.75mg on Wednesday.
1)caffeine pills
2)woke up earlier(and took my my bromo earlier)
3)had more carbs at breakfast


I read the muscle mags on occasions. They're mostly crap, but there's occasionally an interesting article or a good bit of info. Besides, I find them entertaining. I pretty much only buy Ironman at this point as it's most likely to have useful stuff. In this past month's issue there is a great article by a guy named Stephen Wedan for the 'Hardgainer' column(Generally, they use articles by Stuart McRobert and as this one they've almost always been previously published in the HG newsletter) In any event, it's a great read, and wonderfully refreshing to see someone in the HIT camp step back for a moment to examine the fundamental tenants to which many of that school so desperately and irrationally cling. I made an abortive attempt at writing something similar(though not nearly so well reasoned or with such good suggestions) some time ago when I slowly became disenchanted with much of the dogmatism so often present in HIT(and of which, I myself, had been guilty) Anyways, here's an excerpt



I cite Pearl here for another reason. When Arthur Jones began spreading the gospel of training to failure in the late 60's and early 70's, Pearl could occasionally be seen in print advocating not training to failure. He said training to failure was a drastic step in the wrong direction. I remember wondering how anyone so successful could be so wrong. My next thought was to pass Pearl's supposed ignorance off as the opinion of a genetic superior living on a different logic plane than I.

But there might be more to it than than. Consider that lifters from 100 years ago to the present, never trained to failure, flirting with such limit poundages only at contest time. Training with intensity levels that are too high while maintaining volume they use 'burns them out.' Could all those strength athletes have been so uniformly wrong?
...
Ah, comes the final argument, these guys are genetic superiors, for whom all the rules bend. But I contend, after many years as a high-intensity apologist, that the experience not only of bodybuilders but also of lifters suggests that growth stimulus occurs at an intensity level short of 100 percent and that it doesn't matter at what level of intensity that stimulus occurs. As long as you cycle up your poundages and experience progress over time, you stimulate growth. The intensity level you reach--whatever they are--will prove sufficient.
...
Bill usually advises trainees to work any single lift two or three times per week, although once for the deadlift is his common advice
...
As for less frequent training for hardgainers, he told me in personal correspondence, "There have only been a couple of folks out of maybe 40 or so who have materially benefited from working a given muscle group less frequently than once very four days.' That doesn't preclude more frequent training overall, given the probability of splitting a routine to accomadate several exercises
...
Frequency alone won't stimulate muscle growth, of course. The whole point of not going balls-to-the-wall is to allow a more measured rate of progress. That word, progress, is the key. That's why it's called progressive-weight training. Without progression, there's no growth.


Basically, he's just mentioned half the principles of HST, which I find quite cool. Of course, I've seen some HIT'ters on other boards dismiss HST as something old repackage to sell supplements for this very reason. The primary difference is HST is a coherent whole, backed by science, and not merely upon observation in the gym room. Great article.

Oh and as an additional note, I don't think HST is the be all and end all of training. HIT worked fairly well for me and I don't deny it's effectiveness. I simply think HST superior, both in it's reasoning and it's results(If anyone want to point out my own admitted snail-like progress over the last year, I would point out that HIT was producing lesser results. )

Exercise:

10:00am-10:30am: Biceps/Triceps/Shoulders

Preacher Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45 x 15, 45 x 6
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: 55

Comments:
1st set fairly easy. 2nd was slightly difficult. Good concentration.

Tricep Pushdown
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 120 x 15, 120 x 5
Increment: +20lbs
15RM: 140

Comments:
Both sets fairly easy. Decent concentration.

Reverse Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 30 x 15, 30 x 7
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 35???

Comments:
Both sets slightly difficult. Good burn.

Life Fitness Machine Lateral
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 52.5 x 15, 52.5 x 8
Increment: +7.5lbs
15RM: no freaking clue

Comments:
Both set were fairly easy. Great burn.

Reverse Pec Deck
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 60 x 15, 60 x 6
Increment: +15lbs
15RM: 75

Comments:
1st set was fairly difficult. 2nd slightly so. Some burn.

Wrist Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 50 x 15
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 60

Comments:
Slightly difficult. Decent burn.

Overall Comments
Good workout.


7:15pm-7:45pm: Cardio

Incline Treadmill
Time: 30min
Speed: 3.2-3.3mph
Incline: 15degrees
Calories burned(inaccurate): 524kcal

Comments:
Cardio sucks.


Diet:


6:15am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1/2 low-carb Lean Body MRP, 1 cup skim milk, 2.5mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C, 5g fish oil(45g carbs/4g fiber, 34g protein, 9g fat)
9:00am: 200mg caffeine, 500mg HMB, 500mg ester-C, 250g mg ALA
9:30am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
10:00am-10:30am: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(30g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
10:35am: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
1:30pm: 4oz lean ground turkey, 2 cups side salad, 1 tbsp olive oil, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1 tbsp BBQ sauce, 1 sugar free Jello, 5 no fat/no carb cookies, 500mg HMB, 5g fish oil(23g carbs/3g fiber, 29g protein, 21g fat)
3:30pm: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
4:15pm-4:45pm; Kool-aid with Splenda, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide
5:00pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
7:00pm: 4oz lean ground turkey, 2 cups side salad, 1 tbsp olive oil, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1 tbsp BBQ sauce, 1 sugar free Jello, 5 no fat/no carb cookies, 500mg HMB, 5g fish oil(23g carbs/3g fiber, 29g protein, 21g fat)
9:30pm: 4oz lean ground turkey, 2 cups side salad, 1 tbsp olive oil, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1 tbsp BBQ sauce, 1 sugar free Jello, 500mg HMB, 1 serving Fiber-Psyll, 5g fish oil(30 carbs/17g fiber, 29g protein, 21g fat)
10:00pm: 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc

Totals:
Calories: 2641kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 217g/35g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 207g/80g
Fat: 85g

Comments:
Perfect.


Weight: 207lbs

Sleep: 8 hours.

Miscelleneous: Traps are a bit sore from deadlifting yesterday. Due, no doubt, to sloppy form(my shoulders were not retracted for the entire set)

Blood&Iron
10-15-2002, 04:58 PM
Monstar and Erbas--

Thanks both for the encouragement. Unfortunately, I probably am at 17%. But, that's how it goes. The results I achieve are less important to me than knowing I've given this my all. I was a bit down about it yesterday, but it's already forgotten.

jiacstrap
10-15-2002, 05:50 PM
Couldn't you get a pair of calipers and do the measurements yourself so you know that they will be the same every time you measure it, It may not be too accurate overall but you would be able to see your improvement correct? Are you seeing results? Don't worry about numbers..... Keep up the good work, don't let it get to you, I know it is tough.

Blood&Iron
10-15-2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by jiacstrap
Couldn't you get a pair of calipers and do the measurements yourself so you know that they will be the same every time you measure it, It may not be too accurate overall but you would be able to see your improvement correct? Are you seeing results? Don't worry about numbers..... Keep up the good work, don't let it get to you, I know it is tough.
That would be the logical thing to do, wouldn't it?

I have a general rule of trying to make things as difficult as possible for myself.

Actually, I've thought about this and may end up buying a crappy pair of calipers and doing 3-site tests(It'd be kinda hard to do my subscapular pinch) I'd still like to find some place to weigh me hydrostatically.

chris mason
10-15-2002, 06:36 PM
You know, as much as I have never read anything bad about Bill Pearl, I think the routines he advocates would "burnout" most trainees very quickly. Yes, Bill Pearl does have excellent genetics. Bill also admitted to steroid use, although he tempered that admission with saying he only used them for a short time and they made him feel funny so he quite using them. Here is my take on Pearl, if you look at his pics from his younger days, he was well built, but very believable as a natural. The trick is that he supposedly weighed 193 lbs when he won the A.A.U. Mr. America in 1953 at a height of 5'11" (these are self claimed measurements from Mr. Pearl). He was around 23 at that time (my guess based upon remembering him to be 41 when he won the Universe in 1971). He looked quite good. Now, 18 years later, at 41 years of age (if my recollection is correct), he supposedly weighed (self claimed again) 241 lbs at the same height. He was considerably more ripped than when he won the America. That indicates to me more than a "dabble" in anabolics as he claims. Actually, I see this a lot, the older bodybuilders who used often claimed to only dabble in steroids, kind of an admission with an asterisk next to it.

My point in the above is that I think Mr. Pearl, as many pro bodybuilders, suggest routines that work well for a genetic superior drug user, not the average clean Joe.

So, the author's point about Bill is not valid to me. I do understand the point about many athletes training without going to failure and making progress. It certainly works. I don't believe that what most people perceive to be traditional HIT works ideally. As I have stated in the past, I think that for an advanced trainee a combination of failure and non-failure workouts are best. These are to used based upon the body's ever changing needs. In other words, sometimes training to failure for multiple workouts may be best, while other times may require multiple non-failure sessions (times of stress etc.). That is why HST, Westside etc. cannot be optimal, they don't take individual constantly changing needs into consideration.

Erbas
10-16-2002, 09:09 AM
This is a quick question and observation. I have always calculated my caloric intake based on my estimated lean body mass (as fat is basically zip metabolically). Is this the correct? Based on that assumption and your earlier statement that you are cutting, isn't your caloric intake a little above maintenance? That is at 207 Lbs with a BF% of 17% your LBM is about 172 Lbs. My understanding is that maintenance is about 15 cals X LBM Lbs. Fat loss is typically in the 10-12 range/lb. LBM. You seem to be taking in about 2600 cals/day with a calculated maintenance of 2580 cals/day.

Are you just relying on your workouts to create the caloric deficit necessary to loss fat?

Guess this reply is really just checking my understanding of estimating caloric intake.

BTW....140 lbs. for a 15 rep max on tricep push downs is damn impressive...

Blood&Iron
10-16-2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Erbas
This is a quick question and observation. I have always calculated my caloric intake based on my estimated lean body mass (as fat is basically zip metabolically). Is this the correct? Based on that assumption and your earlier statement that you are cutting, isn't your caloric intake a little above maintenance? That is at 207 Lbs with a BF% of 17% your LBM is about 172 Lbs. My understanding is that maintenance is about 15 cals X LBM Lbs. Fat loss is typically in the 10-12 range/lb. LBM. You seem to be taking in about 2600 cals/day with a calculated maintenance of 2580 cals/day.

Are you just relying on your workouts to create the caloric deficit necessary to loss fat?

Guess this reply is really just checking my understanding of estimating caloric intake.

The figure I've always seen quoted is 15 x weight(in pounds), not 15 x lbm--and this generally will be the same as the figure you'll get from using much more complicated formulae. Using the 15xbodyweight thing and my own observations I've come up with a figure of about 3000-3500kcal per day to maintain my weight. So, I'm running a decent deficit here. Nothing too extreme, but I want to keep my weight loss gradual(though it's been a bit rapid of late)



BTW....140 lbs. for a 15 rep max on tricep push downs is damn impressive...
Probably just a goofy machine, but I'll take what I can get.

I'm fairly weak(though not quite so much as some of my lifts would sugggest) I haven't done a free weight bench in a long time, but I can do 270 x 3 on the Hammer Strength Incline bench. I dl'ed about 365 once a few weeks ago--think I could probably hit 385 or so(though it wouldn't be pretty) My 1RM squat(though I haven't done it in a long time) using an explosive concentric and going only to parallel(I was up to 270 for 5 going ATF before I switched to a much slower tempo) is probably around 335 or so at this point. Still quite sad numbers, but since I use very controlled movement and and a stickler for form, you're rarely see anything close to these. But, at least for the moment, strength is not my concern, size is. I've been sorta feeling an urge to try focusing on strength for bit, so I won't feel quite so pathetic, but it won't be for awhile, if ever.

Erbas
10-16-2002, 01:15 PM
Looks like you're plenty strong. I've found, in my old age, that I get more out of quality reps that focus on form and eliminate momentum than my younger years of moving as much weight as possible using any means and form necessary. I'm with you on the size vs strength. I've always said I'd be happy being able to bench 300 lbs. and look like a I can do 500 lbs.

You think the bromo is having an effect on your faster weight loss?

Blood&Iron
10-16-2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Erbas

You think the bromo is having an effect on your faster weight loss?
It's possible, I suppose. If my leptin was low, it would help to keep weight loss going, but as I only came back to dieting after a week off, that's incredibly unlikely. Bromo isn't like EC or clen, which both directly increase metabolism. It just helps fat loss keep going after extended dieting and when you're below your setpoint. It does seem to be helping dull my appetite a bit, though. And remember, I'm still only at 2.5mg a day.

Blood&Iron
10-16-2002, 09:33 PM
Wednesday October 16, 2002

Ramblings
Nah.

Exercise:

10:50am-11:25am: Chest/Back


(Assisted) Chins
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: -70 x 15, -70 x 4
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: -70 @ 212

Comments:
Hit previous RM but at a bit faster of a tempo. Slightly difficult. So so concentration.

Incline DB Press
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 50's x 15
Increment: +5lbs per DB
15RM: 50's @ 101

Comments:
Hit my previous RM. Quite difficult. Dunno if I'll increase this next time, although I'd planned on hitting up the 55's for my last workout of the 15's.

H.S. Iso-Row
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 110 x 15, 110 x 6
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: 100 x 15 @ 101

Comments:
1st set was fairly difficult--surpassed previous RM. 2nd was fairly easy.

(Assisted) Dips
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: -60 x 15, -60 x 5
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: -60 @ 101

Comments:
Hit previous RM(Though, not really since I weight 7lbs less than last time I did this) Only went very slighlty below parallel. 2nd set was easy.

Machine Pullover
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 90 x 15, 90 x 4
Increment: none
15RM: 100???

Comments:
Not all that difficult, but again I felt this mostly in my triceps. On the 2nd set I really focused on my lats and it felt much better--don't think I could do 15 in this manner, though.

Incline Flyes
Tempo: 101(1st set), 212(2nd set)
Warmup: none
Work sets: 20's x 15, 20's x 5
Increment: none
15RM: 30???

Comments:
1st set was very easy, but I felt little in my chest. It was mostly my front delts that felt fatigued. 2nd set was much better focus.

Overall Comments
Pretty decent workout. Usually would've skipped the 2nd set on the isolation exercises, but in both cases the 1st sets weren't focused enough.


4:30pm-4:50pm: Legs

Horizontal Leg Press
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 175 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 175 x 15???

Comments:
Went 1-2 inches below parallel. Very easy.

HS Seated Leg Curl
Tempo: 202
Warmup: none
Work sets: 70 x 15, 70 x 4
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 75 @ 212

Comments:
1st set was fairly difficult. 2nd only slightly so. Decent burn.

HS Leg Extensions
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 75 x 11, 75 x 4
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 80 @ 101

Comments:
Cut short as this was just getting too hard, and I didn't want to risk failure or be shaking uncontrollably at the end.

Calf Raise-performed on incline leg press
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 87.5 x 15, 87.5 x 6
Increment: none
15RM: 100 @ 101

Comments:
Somewhat difficult. Good burn

Power Crunch
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 55 x 15
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 60 @ 101

Comments:
Fairly easy.


Overall Comments
Good (and quick) workout.


Diet:


9:00am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 cup skim milk, 2.5mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(39g carbs/4g fiber, 12g protein, 3g fat)
10:10am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 250mg ALA, 500mg HMB(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
10:30am-11:25am: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(25g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
11:40am: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
1:30pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/2tbsp BBQ sauce, 1 cup cantaloupe, 1 sugar-free jello, 1oz peanuts, 5g fish oil, 500mg HMB(26g carbs/4g fiber, 37g protein, 20g fat)
4:00pm: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 10g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 250mg ALA(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
4:30pm-4:50pm: B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(25g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
5:00pm 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
8:00pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1tbsp BBQ sauce, 6oz uncooked broccoli/cauliflower/carrots, 1 tbsp fat free/carb free ranch dressing, 1 tbsp regular ranch dressing, 5g fish oil, 1 sugar free jello, 500mg HMB(24g carbs/4g fiber, 32g protein, 13g fat)
10:00pm: 4oz beef jerky, 10g fish oil(20g carbs/0g fiber, 56g protein, 12g fat)
11:30pm: 500mg HMB, 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc

Totals:
Calories: 2631kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 225g/20g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 213g/80g
Fat: 71g

Comments:
Ran out of calories before my final meal. Ah, jerky is a slow protein so one more hour of fasting won't kill me. Little low in fiber and fat, and high in carbs. Still, overall very good.

Weight: 206lbs

Sleep: 8 hours.

Miscelleneous Bleh.

lylemcd
10-16-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
I agree with Robboe B&I---you gotta stop being so damn negative! Youre being way too hard on yourself. I used to be the same way, all anal about counting calories, and grams of foods, etc. I look back on that now and wonder what the f*ck I was thinking. I dont know how the hell I lived like that. I am so much more relaxed now and much happier.

What Monstar said. Seriously, the stress response you're generating by being this anal retentive and psychotic is HURTING your progress way more than it's helping. I'm not joking about this, you can easily jack your own cortisol into the stratosphere by putting yourself under this much pressure. And it never does anything but harm in terms of anything.

Fat loss, libido, immune system, you name it and chronic stress will affect it, usually negatively. Get the book "Why Zebras Don't get Ulcers" by Robert Sapolsky (a book I can NOT recommend highly enough to just about everyone, it's amazingly well written, incredibly informative, and genuinely funny) if you want to find out just how much bad it does to you.

As far as your body is concerned, self-inflicted stress is just as bad as any other kind. The hormonal response turns out to be the same, as do the negative effects of it.

So f-ing relax, you'll not only be MUCH happier but you'll make BETTER progress too. They are related.

Oh yeah, in terms of body temp and metabolism, it is a rough indicator. They've looked at it and waking temps of 97.8-98.2 correlate with relatively 'normal' metabolic rate. That is, folks in that temp range have metabolic rates that are ~100% normal based on bodyweight predictions. For every degree below that, subtract about 10-12% from your maintenance calories. Obviously you need to not be taking EC or thermogenics and not be sick or anything to get a good reading.

Some people simply run a little on the cold side, it's indicative of hormone levels and receptor sensitivity for leptin, insulin, thyroid and the catecholamines.

My morning temp *after* 2 weeks of refeeding is only 96.8. I also have to cut calories to nearly 8 cal/lb (with moderate cardio) to get any sort of decent fat loss. Some of that is simply my low daily activity, I sit in front of this stupid computer most of the day.

There aren't any other good measures short of having resting metabolic rate measured directly (many hospitals can do it, you sit quietly in a hood and breath for 15 minutes).

Obviously if you lose fat slowly with standard calorie levels (i.e. 10-12 cal/lb), you can assume you have a lower than predicted metabolic rate.

Lyle

Maki Riddington
10-16-2002, 11:36 PM
He has arrived.;)
Nice to see you around these parts.

lylemcd
10-17-2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
He has arrived.;)
Nice to see you around these parts.

Maki,

Very random note since you asked me about it (and I managed to lose your email adress). regarding models of fat cells.

Got a paper that looked at a bunch of different mammal systems in terms of varying controllers of lipolysis. They conclude:

"The animal models that are the least predictive of humans appear to be the jerboa, the rat, and the guinea pig because neither a2-adrenergic nor NPY antilipolysis was fully developed. The rabbit and hamster shared a powerful a2-adrenergic control with the human, whereas the NPY system of the garden dormouse is close to that of a human."

Castan, L. et. al. Antilipolytic effects of a2-adrenergic agonists, neuropeptide Y, adenosine and PGE1 in mammal adipocytes. Am J Physiol (1994) 266: R1141-R1147.

Basically, rat models of lipolysis (which is what most research is on and what most folks tend to mis-use) is basically irrelevant to humans: they not only lack the a-2 system, they have the b-3 that we lack. So there ya' go.

Lyle

Blood&Iron
10-17-2002, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by lylemcd


What Monstar said. Seriously, the stress response you're generating by being this anal retentive and psychotic is HURTING your progress way more than it's helping. I'm not joking about this, you can easily jack your own cortisol into the stratosphere by putting yourself under this much pressure. And it never does anything but harm in terms of anything.

Fat loss, libido, immune system, you name it and chronic stress will affect it, usually negatively. Get the book "Why Zebras Don't get Ulcers" by Robert Sapolsky (a book I can NOT recommend highly enough to just about everyone, it's amazingly well written, incredibly informative, and genuinely funny) if you want to find out just how much bad it does to you.

As far as your body is concerned, self-inflicted stress is just as bad as any other kind. The hormonal response turns out to be the same, as do the negative effects of it.

So f-ing relax, you'll not only be MUCH happier but you'll make BETTER progress too. They are related.


Thanks, Lyle. Believe it or not I've been trying to apply this advice for some time. But I've got to emphasize again--as much as nobody seems to believe me--I don't stress out about bodybuilding stuff. Well, very little anyway. If I miss a day at the gym, or a meal, I'm fine with it. Yeah, when I have my bodyfat tested after 8 weeks of dieting and see no drop(as on Monday), I'm a little down for a day. I hardly think that an abnormal response to the situation. Trust me, I know what being stressed out is like It's probably why I've kicking around for a year and a half working crap jobs(or being unemployed as I am at present) after graduating from one of the top universities in the country with a degree in computer science. When I was in college, I'd practically give myself heart-attacks freakin' out about projects being due, was constantly convinced I'd fail all my classes, and occasionally felt an overwhelming sense of hopelessness. That's not a normal response. I probably should have been on some sort of SSRI. But in my current situation, there is nothing too important or vital. I try to force myself to do a good job with regard to training and diet, but it doesn't really contribute to my stress level or feeling myself to be under pressue(which is fairly non-existent at the moment) Some people are controlled by these aspects of their lives. They forego doing normal things to make sure bodybuilding takes number one priority. I simply try to do the best I can, and let the cards fall where they may. As I said, for me, none of this is anything I get too worked up about. And I'm not sure, other than my dedication, and the fact I FORCE myself to do things(which is different than NEEDING to do things and not being able to function if they aren't done) where there is any indication otherwise.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-17-2002, 07:31 AM
You're not doing any cardio yet, are you?

ericg
10-17-2002, 07:34 AM
Awesome to see you posting here Lyle. Read lots of your stuff and learned lots from it! Hear nothing but good things about you from people I trust so its great to have you around!

*Sorry for the useless post in your journal B&I*

Blood&Iron
10-17-2002, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
You're not doing any cardio yet, are you?
Yeah, two 30min sessions on the incline treadmill, twice a week. It's mostly so I don't have to reduce my calories any further. If I REALLY don't feel like going, I'll skip it.

Maki Riddington
10-17-2002, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by lylemcd


Maki,

Very random note since you asked me about it (and I managed to lose your email adress). regarding models of fat cells.

Got a paper that looked at a bunch of different mammal systems in terms of varying controllers of lipolysis. They conclude:

"The animal models that are the least predictive of humans appear to be the jerboa, the rat, and the guinea pig because neither a2-adrenergic nor NPY antilipolysis was fully developed. The rabbit and hamster shared a powerful a2-adrenergic control with the human, whereas the NPY system of the garden dormouse is close to that of a human."

Castan, L. et. al. Antilipolytic effects of a2-adrenergic agonists, neuropeptide Y, adenosine and PGE1 in mammal adipocytes. Am J Physiol (1994) 266: R1141-R1147.

Basically, rat models of lipolysis (which is what most research is on and what most folks tend to mis-use) is basically irrelevant to humans: they not only lack the a-2 system, they have the b-3 that we lack. So there ya' go.

Lyle

*** Just the info I needed, thanks a bunch.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-17-2002, 06:00 PM
Don't go off on a rag yet man, but have you seen this yet?

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3DAF04B1.B6629896%40onr.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dmisc.fitness.weights

Blood&Iron
10-17-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Don't go off on a rag yet man, but have you seen this yet?

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3DAF04B1.B6629896%40onr.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26group%3Dmisc.fitness.weights
I knew about this quite some time ago. John Williams brought up this point months ago on MFW. While I'm not entirely convinced Williams was attacking the use of bromocriptine solely due to a personal vendetta against Lyle, Lyle did thrash Williams on most of his points. I figured this was just one more in which Williams was wrong--though Lyle never rebutted the point. When someone brought the point up on the Avant site yesterday, it grabbed my attention a bit more as I've noticed a bit of a drop in libido since beginning bromo. I emailed Lyle to get his take, and he said he'd look into it(This was also the reason for his brief appearance here)

Some of his response in this thread is almost identical to the email(s) he sent me. I asked for his permission to repost them here, but until he gives the okay I'm gonna hold off.

On a side note, jb1309 actually just copy and pasted his post from a post made by someone else on the Avant board, and did not give him credit, which was kinda goofy.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-17-2002, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron
On a side note, jb1309 actually just copy and pasted his post from a post made by someone else on the Avant board, and did not give him credit, which was kinda goofy.

I noticed that too, just earlier.

And for the most part, i agree.

Blood&Iron
10-17-2002, 07:47 PM
Thursday October 17, 2002

Ramblings
Well, I broke down and had my refeed a day early. Not ideal since I only worked a minor muscle group today, but I felt like it. So there. I'm still undecided as to whether it'll continue tomorrow. I asked Lyle via email how one should adjust refeeds while on bromocriptine, and his response that since leptin has other peripheral effects they should be the same. That seems to me somewhat counterproductive as what's the point of using the stuff if you still need to be having refeeds. I had planned on still having refeeds once a week--but more as a psychological thing. I still haven't decided if I'm gonna stick to this. I may continue refeeding tomorrow(for a 36 hour refeed) if I feel like it, but probably will go back to dieting tomorrow.

Also, upped my bromo dose as I felt pretty decent yesterday after only 3 days at 2.5mg. More pronounced drowsiness/stuff-nose about 2 hours after my dose this morning, but otherwise I was fine today.

Exercise:

11:45am-12:10pm: Biceps/Triceps/Shoulders

Incline Curl
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 20's x 15, 20's x 4
Increment: n/a
15RM: 20's x 101(x)

Comments:
Hit RM. Last rep on 1st set was a little sloppy. Fairly difficult.

Decline Pronating DB Extensions
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 20's x 15, 20's x 4
Increment: n/a
15RM: 20's @ 101(x)

Comments:
Surprisingly, this was actually easier than the incline curls. Usually, it's the opposite. Still fairly difficult. Probably due to the fact I didn't pause at all at the bottom of the ROM(Even when I have 0 listed I typically pause briefly)

Reverse Curl
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 35 x 15, 35 x 6
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 30???

Comments:
Sped up tempo from 211. Somewhat difficult.

Lying Read Delt Lateral
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets:
Right: 15 x 11, 15 x 4
Left: 15 x 11, 15 x 4
Increment: +3lbs per DB
15RM: 15 @ 101

Comments:
Was nearing failure so I cut the sets off at 11 reps, rested for 15-20s and did 4 more reps. Good burn.

Hammer Strength Behind-the-neck Press
Tempo: 202
Warmup: none
Work sets: 110 x 15, 110 x 5
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: 130 @ 101(x)

Comments:
Duh. I goofed. Was supposed to use 120lbs. ROM might have been a tad short too. Only 1-2 reps shy of failure.

Wrist Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 55 x 15, 55 x 6
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 60

Comments:
Fairly difficult. Good burn.

Overall Comments
Pretty decent workout.


Diet:


8:30am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 3.75mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(30g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 4.5g fat)
11:15am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 10g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 250mg ALA, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
11:45am-12:15pm: 1/2 scoop B&I Aid[25g dextrose + flavorings], 10g fructose, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(35g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
12:20pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
2:30pm: 3 DHA-enriched eggs, 1/3 cup shredded cheese, 1tsp butter, 1 cup cantaloupe, 500mg caffeine(18g carbs/2g fiber, 25g protein, 26g fat)
-------------------------REFEED BEGINS-------------------------------------
6:30pm: 4 low-fat cupcakes, 4oz pasta, 1.5 cups marinara, 25g parmesan, 500mg HMB, 1g ALA, 3g CLA(231g carbs/15g fiber, 38g protein, 26.5g fat)
9:00pm: 1.5 cups skim milk, 4 low-fat cupcakes(116g carbs/4g fiber, 16g protein, 6g fat)
10:00pm: 1 Low-carb Lean Body MRP, 2 cups skim milk, 1 serving Fiber-Psyll, 5g fish oil, 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc(50g carbs/14g fiber, 57g protein, 7g fat)

Totals:
Calories: 3548kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 513g/43g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 205g/40g
Fat: 76.5g

Comments:
Bit high in fat for a refeed, but that's because in the beginning I was going to wait until tomorrow evening. But I broke down and started it today. At least the high-fat portion was somewhat temporally distanced from the carb gorging. Not too bad, but not great either. The cupcakes were damn good, though.


Weight: ???

Sleep: 8 hours.

Miscelleneous: nah

lylemcd
10-17-2002, 09:07 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blood&Iron
[B]
I knew about this quite some time ago. John Williams brought up this point months ago on MFW. While I'm not entirely convinced Williams was attacking the use of bromocriptine solely due to a personal vendetta against Lyle, Lyle did thrash Williams on most of his points. I figured this was just one more in which Williams was wrong--though Lyle never rebutted the point. When someone brought the point up on the Avant site yesterday, it grabbed my attention a bit more as I've noticed a bit of a drop in libido since beginning bromo. I emailed Lyle to get his take, and he said he'd look into it(This was also the reason for his brief appearance here)

Something else is that of all the feedback I've gotten, this is the ONLY report of a libido drop from bromo I've gotten. One guy I know using pergolide (which is about 10 times more potent than bromocriptine) reported an increase in libido.

As I mentioned in my first response, I suspect that chronic stress over his diet &c is more to blame for the libido drop.

Of course, the easiest test, as I told him would be to discontinue the bromo and see what happens. Even then, libido isn't necessarily related to testosterone. As per my comments on mfw, considering the variability in studies, something weird is going on.

I really suspect it's a timing issue. There is a nighttime increase in PRL that appears to be involved in testosterone release: if you took a DA agonist at night and prevented that normal nighttime increase in PRL, that could have negative effects. With morning dosing, it'd be a non-issue.

Until I pull all of the full studies (I posted the abstracts to mfw), I just don't know. But when you have one study showing a decrease in test with 5 mg bromo at 2 and then 8 weeks and another showing no change with 7.5 mg for 4 months, something funky is going on. But I'll know for sure in 2 or 3 days after I get to the library.

Lyle

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-18-2002, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by lylemcd


Until I pull all of the full studies (I posted the abstracts to mfw), I just don't know. But when you have one study showing a decrease in test with 5 mg bromo at 2 and then 8 weeks and another showing no change with 7.5 mg for 4 months, something funky is going on.
Lyle

Yeah, it does sound like a testing error.

Blood&Iron
10-18-2002, 09:01 PM
Friday October 18, 2002

Ramblings
Here's my recent email exchange with Lyle, which he's given permission to reprint here. You'll notice a slight, sycophantic tinge and a sorta of greater than normal level of stupidity. I sorta take leave of my own critical faculties when speaking with those I consider my betters. Anyways, here are the emails:



Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:03:22 -0500
From: Lyle McDonald
Subject: Re: Effect of bromo on test levels

At 3:53 PM -0400 10/16/02, B&I wrote:
>Hi Lyle.
>
>Having bought your e-book on bromocriptine a little while back, I decided
>to give bromo a shot. Frankly(and despite your warnings that people not
>do this) I sorta accepted what you wrote in the book uncritically(Yes, I
>know, dumb.) I had seen John Williams bring up the fact that bromo has
>been shown to lower test in healthy males on MFW, but since you'd soundly
>thrashed him on most of his other points, I figured it was a safe bet he
>was wrong on this one too. I was, however, surprised when you didn't
>address the subjet in the book, but figured there was some simple
>explanation and forgot about it. Since starting bromo about 1.5 weeks
>ago, though, I've noticed a definite drop in libido and am a bit worried
>about this point. Could you shed some light on this subject, and why you
>don't think this renders bromo useless for dieting?

Yeah, this was one of those things I sort of spaced on when I wrote the book.
I did a Medline search and found like 7 papers looking at it but they're
all over the map, one says a decrease, a few reported no change, one found
an increase, I forget the rest. Reading the abstracts, I can't tell if the
difference is an issue of dose, timing, duration or something else. I"m
going to pull the full papers this weekend and see what the hell is going
on and I'll get back to you. They appear below if you want to take a look.

AS far as libido dropping, it's not necesssarily related to testosterone.
Also, you're the first person to mention such a thing. What else are you
doing (drugs, supps, diet, training). One guy noted increased libido using
pergolide.

>Also, I'm curious as to how one should adjust refeeds while on. I'd
>assumed they should either not occur or be very infrequent and more of a
>psychological aid.

Well, leptin also has some peripheral effects that bromocriptine isn't
really affecting so I'm not sure I would change very much.

>BTW, ever plan on posting on the HST forum again?
>
>Thanks for any assistance.
>
>B&I
>

<snip>

Lemme pull the full papers and see if I can see why the difference between
all those studies. IF bromo is reducing testosterone in normal folks, that
would be a bad thing. My hunch, just based on some otehr reading is that
it's a timing thing. I found some stuff linking a nightime increase in
prolactin to increased testosterone. If the one study (which gave 5
mg/day) were giving folks some of the bromo at night, that could
conceivably impair testosterone release. Taking it in the morning
shouldn't have an effect.

Lyle

****
1: Life Sci 1993;52(22):1805-7

Bromocriptine effects on plasma luteinizing hormone and its responses to
gonadotropin-releasing hormone in normal men.

Oseko F, Morikawa K, Nakano A, Taniguchi A.

Department of Medicine, Shimane Medical University, Japan.

Secretory changes in plasma pituitary luteinizing hormone (LH) after
administration of a dopaminergic drug were studied in five normal men. Each
subject received orally 5 mg of bromocriptine (Brc) daily for 8 weeks. Each
received gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) stimulation tests at the
beginning (control), and at 2, 4, 6, and 8 weeks after initiation of Brc
treatment. We referred the basal plasma LH and a ratio of maximally
GnRH-responded plasma LH to its basal level (R-Max) as indicators of secretory
alterations of the LH. Mean basal levels of plasma LH in the five subjects at
the beginning and those of R-Max were 3.4 +/- 2.3 (SD) mIU/mL and 8.5 +/- 2.9
units, respectively. Statistically, both the mean values of plasma LH and R-Max
during the control period did not differ significantly from those obtained
after
Brc treatment, although mean basal levels of plasma prolactin during the
control
period (15.6 +/- 4.6 ng/mL) decreased significantly (p < 0.05) after initiation
of treatment. A low dose of Brc administered to normal men for 8 weeks does not
significantly influence pituitary secretion of LH.

PMID: 8492643 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



2: Fertil Steril 1991 Feb;55(2):355-7

Effects of chronic bromocriptine-induced hypoprolactinemia on plasma
testosterone responses to human chorionic gonadotropin stimulation in normal
men.

Oseko F, Nakano A, Morikawa K, Endo J, Taniguchi A, Usui T.

Department of Medicine, Shimane Medical University, Japan.

To study the role played by normal levels of plasma prolactin (PRL) in the
secretion of testosterone (T) in the testes, we induced hypoprolactinemia
with a
daily dose of 5 mg bromocriptine administered orally in five normal men 20
to 35
years of age for 8 weeks. The basal PRL, T, luteinizing hormone,
follicle-stimulating hormone, and maximum responses of plasma T to human
chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) stimulation were measured every 2 weeks. Basal
levels of plasma T were reduced in the 1st 2-week-long period of
hypoprolactinemia. In the 4-week-long period of hypoprolactinemia, the maximal
response of plasma T to hCG stimulation was significantly reduced. The findings
suggest that normal levels of plasma PRL may play an important role in the
secretion of T in the human testes in vivo.

PMID: 1899397 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



3: Horm Res 1991;36(1-2):36-40

Restoration of normal gonadotropin responses to naloxone by chronic
bromocriptine treatment in elderly men.

Coiro V, Volpi R, Bertoni P, Marcato A, Vourna S, Bocchi R, Bianconi L,
Marchesi
M, Buonanno G, Chiodera P.

Istituto di Clinica Medica Generale e Terapia Medica, Universita di Parma,
Italia.

Naloxone is unable to stimulate FSH and LH secretion in elderly men, suggesting
a reduced endogenous opioid control of gonadotropin secretion in senescence. In
the present study, we examined whether in elderly men a chronic dopaminergic
stimulation with bromocriptine (5 mg/day for 7 days) modifies the gonadotropin
response to naloxone (4 mg as an i.v. bolus plus 10 mg infused in 2 h). Eleven
younger men (group 1, 22-40 years old) participated as controls. Twenty-two
elderly men were selected from a larger population and were divided into two
groups: subjects with compensated gonadal failure (normal blood
testosterone and
elevated gonadotropin concentrations; group 2, n = 11; 62-80 years old) and men
with normal gonadal function (normal blood testosterone and gonadotropin
levels;
group 3, n = 11; 61-82 years old). Naloxone induced a striking LH and a slight
but significant FSH increase in group 1, but was unable to change serum
gonadotropin concentrations in elderly subjects of both groups 2 and 3. When
experiments were repeated after bromocriptine treatment, no significant
differences in LH and FSH responses to naloxone were observed in the younger
subjects. On the other hand, bromocriptine restored significant gonadotropin
responses to naloxone in elderly men. In fact, after bromocriptine,
naloxone-induced FSH and LH increments in groups 2 and 3 were indistinguishable
from those observed in group 1. These data suggest that in men age-related
dopaminergic alterations may underlie the defective endogenous opioid
control of
gonadotropin secretion.

PMID: 1814799 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



4: J Endocrinol Invest 1983 Feb;6(1):9-15

Influence of dopaminergic mechanisms on 24-hour secretory patterns of
prolactin,
luteinizing hormone and testosterone in recumbent men.

Sowers JR, Viosca SP, Windsor C, Korenman SG.

PMID: 6841919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



5: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1982 Oct;17(4):345-52

Relationship of changes in serum concentrations of prolactin and testosterone
during dopaminergic modulation in males.

Nakagawa K, Obara T, Matsubara M, Kubo M.

To evaluate the effect of PRL on the male pituitary-gonadal system, serum
concentrations of PRL, testosterone, LH and FSH were determined in healthy
young
men daily before, during, and after 3-day oral administration of bromocriptine,
metoclopramide or sulpiride. Bromocriptine (2.5 mg as a single dose) caused,
concurrently with a marked suppression of serum PRL, a significant increase of
serum testosterone and a transient decrease of serum LH. The changes of PRL and
testosterone were negatively correlated. With metoclopramide (10 mg q.i.d.)
serum PRL was increased and testosterone inversely decreased. There was no
change in LH and FSH. Sulpiride (50 mg q.i.d.) evoked the elevation of
serum PRL
and LH, but no change in testosterone. A significant increase in serum
concentration of testosterone was also observed in a patient with PRL-producing
pituitary tumour and four out of seven patients with acromegaly during
bromocriptine treatment. These results suggest an inhibitory effect of PRL on
testosterone secretion at the gonadal level, or direct dopaminergic stimulatory
control of testosterone secretion.

PMID: 6814794 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



6: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1980 Nov;13(5):455-9

Pituitary function in normoprolactinaemic infertile men receiving
bromocriptine.

Glatthaar C, Donald RA, Smith R, McRae CU.

A double blind trial of bromocriptine 7.5 mg daily versus placebo was carried
out in ten infertile men. Pretreatment basal plasma prolactin, thyroid
stimulating hormone (TSH) testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH)
concentrations were normal, but plasma follicle-stimulating-hormone (FSH) was
raised in four individuals. After 4 months treatment with bromocriptine a
significant fall in plasma prolactin was observed (P less than 0.01), both
under
basal conditions and following thyroid stimulating hormone releasing hormone
(TRH). Basal plasma gonadotrophin, testosterone and thyroid stimulating hormone
(TSH) concentrations did not alter. No change in sperm density, volume or
motility was noted. However an apparent fall in the peak plasma LH (but not
FSH)
response to gonadotrophin releasing hormone (LHRH) was observed in patients
receiving bromocriptine. This reduction in plasma LH responsiveness was
significant when compared with the baseline response (P less than 0.05) but
failed to reach significance when compared with the placebo response. It is
concluded that prolonged bromocriptine therapy in normoprolactinaemic men does
not suppress FSH secretion, and any reduction in plasma LH responsiveness to
LHRH is not accompanied by a significant fall in plasma testosterone.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 6784976 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



7: Fertil Steril 1980 Aug;34(2):140-3

The effect of prolactin on androgen response to human chorionic gonadotropin in
normal men.

Lackritz RM, Bartke A.

Testicular androgen responses to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) were
compared in normal males before and after suppression of prolactin (PRL)
secretion with bromocriptine. Baseline follicle-stimulating hormone,
luteinizing
hormone, and PRL levels were suppressed by bromocriptine, 2.5 mg daily (P <
0.05). Serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels were reliably
increased by one intramuscular injection of hCG (P < 0.05). Although
testosterone responses to hCG were not significantly different in normal
PRL and
suppressed PRL cycles (P > 0.05), the DHT response was significantly increased
in the suppressed cycle (P < 0.05), suggesting a physiologic 5 alpha-reductase
blockage by PRL in men.

PMID: 6773818 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



8: Arch Androl 1980 Feb;4(1):1-7

Plasma ACTH, cortisol, LH, FSH, testosterone, and dihydrotestosterone responses
to bromocriptine in normal men.

Van Loon GR, Bain J, Ruse JL.

The effects of an initial oral 2.5 mg dose of bromocriptine and of a similar
dose after treatment with 2.5--5 mg daily for one week on plasma concentrations
of ACTH, cortisol, LH, FSH, testosterone, and dihydrotestosterone were studied
in normal men. In addition to its suppressive effects on plasma concentrations
of prolactin and catecholamines which have been reported previously, a single
dose of bromocriptine produced small increases in plasma ACTH and cortisol.
Neither a single dose of bromocriptine nor treatment for one week altered
plasma
concentrations of LH and FSH. Plasma concentrations of testosterone and
dihydrotestosterone were not altered by a single dose of bromocriptine, but
small increases in both were noted in some subjects after treatment for one
week.

PMID: 6243912 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Lyle
"We don't know how a hypothalamic neural circuit can change our conscious
awareness of a desire to eat, nor how this pathway could relate to our
habits or our neuroses." - J. Flier




At 11:51 PM -0400 10/16/02, B&I wrote:
>Hey Lyle.
>
>Thanks for the quick reply.
>
>>As far as libido dropping, it's not necesssarily related to testosterone.
>>Also, you're the first person to mention such a thing. What else are you
>>doing (drugs, supps, diet, training). One guy noted increased libido
>>using pergolide.
>
>Rather than type out some long essay and end up leaving out some vital bit
>of info, just take a look here:
>
>http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21172&pagenumber=1
>
>It's an online journal that begins with my commencement of using bromo and
>includes EVERYTHING I've done/am doing and am taking. Don't think there'll
>be any clue to the libido thing in there, though(I'm not taking any other
>drugs. Don;t think my diet or training is TOO retarded, either)

Yeah, nothing really jumped out at me as being drastically wrong (except
that I personally think yo'ure being unnecessarily psychotic about details,
and coming from me that means a LOT). One very minor possibility is the
almost complete lack of saturated fats. Some research has correlated sat.
fat intake with testosterone levels. Try eating some freaking red meat on
your diet for god's sake. I also question 2 a day weight training on a
diet but that's a personal preference.

As well, 1.25 mg for 1.5 weeks is a tiny dose. Even in the one study
reporting lowered testosterone, it took 2 weeks at 5 mg. As well, if you
read the third to the last abstract (#6 on the list), they gave 7.5 mg for
4 months and saw no difference. I really suspect it's a timing issue (i.e.
the study reporting lowered testosterone gave the bromo at the wrong time)
but I'll get back to you when I pull the full papers.

Of course, the simplest test would be this: quit taking the bromo and see
if your libido improves.
If so, you know what the problem is.
If not, you know it's not the bromo, even if you do'nt know what it is.

Considering how much **** you have going on in your daily everything, it's
entirely possible that interactions of somethign else is causing the
problem. Even then, 1.5 weeks isn't very long. Some of the stuff in your
journal also seems to indicate rather high stress levels (i.e. the stuff
about your job) and you admit to being somewhat negative and a worrier.
Chronic stress will **** libido like nobody's business. That includes
overstressing about diet.

Looking back (i.e. the Bodyopus days), it NEVER did me anything but harm to
obsess that much. Others I know have reported the same. One guy in a
different forum put it best when he said he started getting far better
results when he quit being such a spaz about his diet. Reread what
Monstarr said to you on 10-11 at 5.55 pm, I couldn't agree with him more:
you need to ******* relax. I promise you that you'll make BETTER progress.

If yo'ure truly at 16-17% bodyfat, I have to be honest in telling you that
the details aren't even that important to yet. I'm willing to bet that
you're jacking your own cortisol off the map just with chronic worry.

I'll let you know what hte bromo/testosterone papers say. But consider
trying to chill the **** out.

Lyle




Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:48:33 -0500
From: Lyle McDonald
Subject: Re: Effect of bromo on test levels

At 9:41 AM -0400 10/17/02, B&I wrote:
>Thanks again for your help.
>
>I responded on the forum, bu I'm betting you're not gonna be back, so
>here's what I wrote:
>Thanks, Lyle. Believe it or not I've been trying to apply this advice for
>some time. But I've got to emphasize again--as much as nobody seems to
>believe me--I don't stress out about bodybuilding stuff.

Yeah, I saw itg. But I think your overall obsessiveness and some of your
other comments argue differently. And, considering that I'm not the only
one who noticed it, it's something to think about. And seriously, your
diet is insane, seriously, you are putting in so much effort for what can
ONLY be described as minimal or no return. The stress involved in just
trying to keep all tha tshit straight has got to be pretty high.

>As to the other stuff...
>
>I generally try to keep my saturated fat intake reasonably
>high(30% of my fat intake) while bulking for the very reason you
>mention. It totally slipped my mind to include some in my diet for the
>same reason. I don't often eat red meat as I've got this
>paranoia(no surprising given my personality) about Jakob-Creutzfeldt
>disease, but I'll try to start eating eggs again or something.

Yeah, it doesn't take much as far as I can tell. Just get some.

>
>As you said, at 17% none of this stuff probably matters much. The only
>problem is that I've tried the Body-for-life approach, as I call it, and I
>always seem to lose a **** load of muscle along with the fat. Perhaps,
>that's just my genetic fate. I have a **** of a time getting lean.

Yeah, some people are just screwed and lose more muscle when they diet than
others. The bromo should help. Consider putting in a refeed day anyhow
(you'll raise insulin, etc) to see if it helps.

Lemme know what happens with the bromo, good or bad. I'll let you know
what I find in the library this weekend.




Lyle
"We don't know how a hypothalamic neural circuit can change our conscious
awareness of a desire to eat, nor how this pathway could relate to our
habits or our neuroses." - J. Flier




Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:17:26 -0500
From: Lyle McDonald
Subject: Re: Effect of bromo on test levels


>> >As you said, at 17% none of this stuff probably matters much. The only
>> >problem is that I've tried the Body-for-life approach, as I call it, and I
>> >always seem to lose a **** load of muscle along with the fat. Perhaps,
>> >that's just my genetic fate. I have a **** of a time getting lean.
>>
>> Yeah, some people are just screwed and lose more muscle when they diet than
>> others. The bromo should help. Consider putting in a refeed day anyhow
>> (you'll raise insulin, etc) to see if it helps.
>>
>> Lemme know what happens with the bromo, good or bad. I'll let you know
>> what I find in the library this weekend.
>>
>
>Yeah, I'd planned on adding in refeeds. I'm gonna have one tomorrow.
>What's really bizarrre--and I don't know if you'd have an explanation for
>this--is that I was having (relatively) extreme refeeds every three days
>and losing weight(albeit slowly) I was keeping my muscle, though. I'd
>have 2.5 days of dieting at about 2500kcal, then in the evening of that
>last half day start refeeding by eating 300g of carbs or so in the form of
>a big spaghetti dinner and low-fat cupcakes, and conintue the next day
>with Count Chocula, etc. Over those 2 days I'd get 7500kcal. THen 2.5
>more days of dieting and have another refeed. I was around the same
>weight and bodyfat as I am now. Eventually, I hit about 13% bodyfat,
>which was 3-4% better than my previous low(although it took 5 months)

But there is a lesson there: this approach let you keep most of your muscle
even if fat loss was slower. Basically research is finding that some
people's body's simply respond worse to dieting than others: metabolism
drops faster and I'd hazard a guess that they tend to lose more muscle. By
the same token, those same folks put on fat very easily. Sounds like you
(and me).

Meaning that you have to pay that much more attention to issues of muscle
loss and metabolic slowdown. Someone who is genetically gifted doesn't
have to worry as much about such things. The rest of us do. if that means
taking a slightly different approach, or slwoing fat loss down or whatever,
it's a useful means to an end.

<snip>

>I'm not sure how such anti-bromo sentiments would affect your book sales,
>but I figured you'd maybe want to respond.

Probably increase sales: nothing like some good controversy in the
bodybuilding world.
actually, if bromo is lowering testosterone, I'm going to be pissed at
myself and I'll be the first person to say I fucked up.

>
>Also, is it cool if I post parts of these emails in my journal, or would
>you rather I not? I understand either way.

Well, you already put me in your .sig so I can't see anything else hurting.
So, no, it doesn't really bother me if you wanna post stuff from my email.
I appreciate you asking first.




Lyle
"We don't know how a hypothalamic neural circuit can change our conscious
awareness of a desire to eat, nor how this pathway could relate to our
habits or our neuroses." - J. Flier


Exercise:

12:50pm-1:20pm: Chest/Back


(Assisted) Chins
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: -60 x 15
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: -70 @ 212

Comments:
So so form and concentration. Really humped my back to get the last rep. Bad B&I. Bad.

Incline DB Press
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 55's x 15
Increment: +5lbs per DB
15RM: 50's @ 101

Comments:
Again, ROM and form was slightly questionable. Last rep was a struggle and took 3-4 seconds to get the concentric.

H.S. Iso-Row
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 120 x 15, 120 x 7
Increment: +20lbs
15RM: 100 x 15 @ 101

Comments:
Thought about jumping up to 140, but since I used sorta crappy form on the last two exercises, I elected to play this more conservatively. First set was quite easy. 2nd slightly difficult. Good focus and form.

(Assisted) Dips
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: -50 x 15, -50 x 6
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: -60 @ 101

Comments:
Bit faster than normal(which is somewhere between 101 and 212) This was ACTUALLY 101. Only slightly difficult.

Machine Pullover
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 90 x 15
Increment: none
15RM: 100???

Comments:
Been having problems feeling this only in my tris, so I haven't increase the weight in several sessions. This time I kept my hands completely off the crossbar so I was forced to push only through the my elbows. Bit better than last few times. Fairly difficult. Decent burn.

Incline Flyes
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 20's x 15, 20's x 4
Increment: none
15RM: 30???

Comments:
Okay. So so concentration. Fairly easy.

Overall Comments
Pretty good workout. Went a bit closer to failure than I normally do at the end of my mini-cycles. Let my form get a bit sloppy in the pursuit of higher poundages.


6:40pm-7:05pm: Legs

Deadlifts
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 175 x 15
Increment: n/a
15RM: 155 x 15???

Comments:
Kinda crappy form. Too much rounding of my lower back after rep 9 or 10, but I kept going anyways. Duh. Paused briefly at the top after rep 10. Last five reps were VERY difficult. Started losing my grip(which was pathetic considering I was using straps) on the last 2-3. After, felt like my lungs were on fire and I could barely stand. Overall, very intense. I probably should've use less weight, though.

HS Seated Leg Curl
Tempo: 202
Warmup: none
Work sets: 75 x 15, 75 x 3
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 75 @ 212

Comments:
1st set was quite difficult. Form broke down a bit on rep 15. Good burn. Hit failure on 2nd set, and quit immediately.

HS Leg Extensions
Tempo: 101(x)
Warmup: none
Work sets: 80 x 15
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 80 @ 101

Comments:
Quite a bit faster tempo than normal(still it was 101) Fairly difficult, but not horribly so, as a result.

Calf Raise-performed on incline leg press
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 100 x 15
Increment: none
15RM: 100 @ 101

Comments:
Fairly difficult.

Power Crunch
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 60 x 15
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 60 @ 101

Comments:
Fairly easy.


Overall Comments
Very intense workout. Almost seemed like an EC-assisted session.


Diet:


10:30am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 3.75mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(30g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 4.5g fat)
12:30pm: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 250mg ALA, 500mg HMB(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
12:50pm-1:20pm: B&I Aid, 10g fructose, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(35g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
1:30pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 500mg ALA, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
4:15pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/4 cup low-fat mozzarella, 1/3 cup marinara sauce, 2 cups spring mix greens, 1 tbsp olive oil, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1 sugar free jello, 500mg HMB(18g carbs/5g fiber, 38g protein, 28g fat)
6:00pm: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
6:40pm-7:05pm: B&I Aid, 10g fructose, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(35g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
7:20pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium(5g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
9:00pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/4 cup low-fat mozzarella, 1/3 cup marinara sauce, 2 cups spring mix greens, 1 tbsp olive oil, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 5g fish oil, 500mg HMB(18g carbs/5g fiber, 37g protein, 33g fat)
11:00pm: 8oz milk, 1 small piece cake, 500mg HMB(35g carbs/0g fiber, 10g protein, 10g fat)
12:00pm: 1 small packet tuna, 1 sugar-free jello, 500mg HMB, 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc(0g carbs/0g fiber, 20g protein, 1.5g fat)

Totals:
Calories: 2714kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 212g/23g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 217g/80g
Fat: 90g

Comments:
Decided to keep my refeed to 6 hours, and not continue today. Solid.

Weight: 207lbs

Sleep: 9 hours.

Miscelleneous Nope.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-18-2002, 09:15 PM
Ten bucks says Monstar is walking around somewhere with a bonner since Lyle directly quoted him.

Blood&Iron
10-18-2002, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Ten bucks says Monstar is walking around somewhere with a bonner since Lyle directly quoted him.
What's a 'bonner'?

Anyways, I'll put twenty on that. But they're both wrong. It's a tragedy that nobody believes me that doing this stuff doesn't stress me out. Honest.

Besides, Monstar was saying he agreed with you, so Lyle was kinda quoting you 2nd hand. So, you should have a 'bonner' too.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-19-2002, 07:13 AM
"Boner".

Smart arse.

Besides, i always have a boner. It's just who I am...

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-19-2002, 07:14 AM
By the way, my boner and your 'smart arse' are in no way related.

Blood&Iron
10-19-2002, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
By the way, my boner and your 'smart arse' are in no way related.
THANK GOD!

Bianca
10-19-2002, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Ten bucks says Monstar is walking around somewhere with a bonner since Lyle directly quoted him.

It's so pathetic to see you all fawning and drooling over Lyle McDonald. So BFD, he wrote a few articles, endless blather all over Usenet, and a couple of books he couldn't get anyone to publish. Perhaps if he had been able to find a real publisher for the keto book, someone would have actually edited it. Then again, maybe that wouldn't have been such a good thing - the distraction of all those grammar and spelling errors is probably the only thing that could keep the reader awake.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-19-2002, 11:49 AM
Bianca, have i ever told you how much i love Lyle McDonald?

I want to bare his monkey-children. Lots of them.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-19-2002, 12:23 PM
I'm sensing a little Lyle-hate going on.

What's up with that?

Blood&Iron
10-19-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Bianca


It's so pathetic to see you all fawning and drooling over Lyle McDonald. So BFD, he wrote a few articles, endless blather all over Usenet, and a couple of books he couldn't get anyone to publish. Perhaps if he had been able to find a real publisher for the keto book, someone would have actually edited it. Then again, maybe that wouldn't have been such a good thing - the distraction of all those grammar and spelling errors is probably the only thing that could keep the reader awake.
I don't know who you are, but considering your location I have a sneaking suspicion you have a personal beef with Lyle.

While I, too, tend to look unkindly on errors in spelling and grammar, who doesn't make them occasionally--particularly when writing an entire book? Besides, Elzi edited the book, so it was her responsiblity to catch any mistakes Lyle made.

Lyle is almost universally acknowledged as one of the foremost authorities on nutrition and training--even by people that don't like him.

Bianca
10-19-2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Blood&amp;Iron

I don't know who you are, but considering your location I have a sneaking suspicion you have a personal beef with Lyle.

While I, too, tend to look unkindly on errors in spelling and grammar, who doesn't make them occasionally--particularly when writing an entire book? Besides, Elzi edited the book, so it was her responsiblity to catch any mistakes Lyle made.

Lyle is almost universally acknowledged as one of the foremost authorities on nutrition and training--even by people that don't like him.

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on the location. Given your apparent attention to detail, I'm not at all surprised you were the first to mention it.

As for the rest of it, Lyle is right about at least one thing - you need to freakin relax.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-19-2002, 12:39 PM
I noticed your location straight away. I just decided to humour you for a while.

Pointless posts like yours so far (5 out of 5 thus far) warrant pointless replies.

Shao-LiN
10-19-2002, 12:47 PM
From the look of it, so do you.

Blood&Iron
10-19-2002, 02:56 PM
It's good to be a mod. That is all.

SJB
10-19-2002, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
I noticed your location straight away. I just decided to humour you for a while.

Oh, you were humoring me? Heh.


Pointless posts like yours so far (5 out of 5 thus far) warrant pointless replies.

I'm glad you think so. I realize they were pointless. Well, not completely pointless. I was killing time. Lyle happened to mention this forum last night at dinner, and the best thing on TV today was some lame mutant cockroach movie, so I had nothing to do until it was time to go to the gym. Sorry for the trolling, but I think you all had a little fun too.

If anyone does want to know who I am, just do a google groups search on group:misc.fitness.weights and author:geek_girl. You know, if you have nothing better to do.

Blood&Iron
10-19-2002, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by SJB


Oh, you were humoring me? Heh.



I'm glad you think so. I realize they were pointless. Well, not completely pointless. I was killing time. Lyle happened to mention this forum last night at dinner, and the best thing on TV today was some lame mutant cockroach movie, so I had nothing to do until it was time to go to the gym. Sorry for the trolling, but I think you all had a little fun too.

If anyone does want to know who I am, just do a google groups search on group:misc.fitness.weights and author:geek_girl. You know, if you have nothing better to do.
Then I already know who you are.

Since it was all in good fun, it's cool. You have to understand, though, that this forum has a very different dynamic than MFW. It takes a little getting used to, but I think it keeps things from degenerating into petty squabbles and vitriol as MFW does with such alarming frequency. We have a very low tolerance for trolling, personal insults, etc. That's why I banned you. Now, I feel like a complete shemp for not realizing you were screwing with us(Actually, at first I though maybe Lyle was just f*cking with us, as it seemed a bit weird someone would start posting JUST to insult him.)

SJB
10-19-2002, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Blood&amp;Iron
Then I already know who you are.

Then you know that in reality I have absolutely no right to talk about other folks fawning over Lyle. I'm still waiting for my cloying hanger-on t-shirt.


Now, I feel like a complete shemp for not realizing you were screwing with us(Actually, at first I though maybe Lyle was just f*cking with us, as it seemed a bit weird someone would start posting JUST to insult him.)

Funny you should say that you thought maybe it was Lyle. A while back there was some silly woman on asd who accused Lyle, another female mfw regular, and me of all being the same person. But she had a lot longer to figure it out than you did and still didn't have a clue.

Anyway, now that I've introduced myself (and in such a charming way) I may stick around for some on-topic stuff. Hope that's okay with you.

Blood&Iron
10-19-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by SJB


Then you know that in reality I have absolutely no right to talk about other folks fawning over Lyle. I'm still waiting for my cloying hanger-on t-shirt.


I need to rack up some points on that front myself:

http://www.ape-o-naut.org/famous/
http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/features/cgsite/
http://www.duke.edu/web/primate/FlashFiles/dukeNew16.html.


BUY LYLE'S BOOK
www.theketogenicdiet.com


Tell Lyle, he can send my shirt any time. No rush.



Funny you should say that you thought maybe it was Lyle. A while back there was some silly woman on asd who accused Lyle, another female mfw regular, and me of all being the same person. But she had a lot longer to figure it out than you did and still didn't have a clue.

Anyway, now that I've introduced myself (and in such a charming way) I may stick around for some on-topic stuff. Hope that's okay with you.
Please do. I'm sure you have plenty of great info to share.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-19-2002, 08:29 PM
Soooo....

I just got in.

I'm half cut.

Scrap that.

I'm cut.

And i have no idea what is going on.

Not much difference there then.

Maki Riddington
10-19-2002, 08:37 PM
:spam:

Blood&Iron
10-19-2002, 11:11 PM
Saturday October 18, 2002

Ramblings
Sh*t. An actual journal entry, in my journal? Who woulda thunk it?

Exercise:

12:00pm-12:20pm: Biceps/Triceps/Shoulders

Preacher Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 55 x 15, 55 x 3
Increment: +10lbs
15RM: 55

Comments:
1st set was very difficult. Form on the last rep was sorta crappy and I basically hit failure.

Tricep Pushdown
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 140 x 15, 140 x 4
Increment: +20lbs
15RM: 140

Comments:
Pretty easy. I probably could've still hit 15 even if I'd used 150-160.

Reverse Curl
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 40 x 15(1st 10 w/ false grip, last 5 with regular grip), 40 x 4
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 35???

Comments:
Quite difficult. Good burn.

Life Fitness Machine Lateral
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 75 x 14, 75 x 4
Increment: +22.5lbs
15RM: no freaking clue

Comments:
Since I didn't pre-establish a max here, I just sorta guessed and used a very big increment. Was nearing failure at 14 on the first set, and decided to quit rather than cheat to get the last rep. Very good burn.

Reverse Pec Deck
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 65 x 15, 65 x 6
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 75

Comments:
Less than previous tested RM, but MUCH, MUCH better form so I don't really see this as a loss of strength. Slightly difficult.

Wrist Curl
Tempo: 202
Warmup: none
Work sets: 60 x 15
Increment: +5lbs
15RM: 60

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Overall Comments
Good workout.



Diet:


9:15am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 3.75mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(30g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 4.5g fat)
11:30am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 250mg ALA, 500mg HMB, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
12:00pm-12:20pm: B&I Aid, 10g fructose, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(35g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
12:20pm: 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(0g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 3g fat)
12:50pm-1:40pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 2g fat)
3:00pm: 5oz salmon in maple glaze, 3oz steamed vegetables, 5g fish oil, 500mg HMB(15g carbs/3g fiber, 35g protein, 25g fat)
7:00pm: Carb Watchers Lean Body bar, 500mg HMB(18g carbs/1g fiber, 30g protein, 8g fat)
9:30pm: 4oz lean ground turkey, 1/3 cup low-fat shredded mozzarella, 1/3 cup marinara(12g carbs/3g fiber, 36g protein, 14.5g fat)
11:00pm: 3oz beef jerky, 5g fish oil, 1oz peanuts(31g carbs/3g fiber, 46g protein, 22g fat)
12:00pm: 8oz milk, 1 small piece cake(32g carbs/0g fiber, 10g protein, 10g fat)
1:00pm: 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc, 500mg HMB

Totals:
Calories: 2629kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 206g/18g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 226g/18g
Fat: 90.5g

Comments:
Okay, all thing considered. Ran out of calories before my final meal, though, which kinda sucked.


Weight: 207-208lbs

Sleep: 9 hours.

Miscelleneous: Nah.

rookiebldr
10-19-2002, 11:13 PM
B&I, I commend you again. Your journal is aways an interesting and informative read even if at times, I seem to miss out on some of the more flaming posts. :cool:

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-20-2002, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Blood&amp;Iron

9:15am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 3.75mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(30g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 4.5g fat)
11:30am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 250mg ALA, 500mg HMB, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
12:00pm-12:20pm: B&I Aid, 10g fructose, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(35g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
12:20pm: 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(0g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 3g fat)
12:50pm-1:40pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 2g fat)
3:00pm: 5oz salmon in maple glaze, 3oz steamed vegetables, 5g fish oil, 500mg HMB(15g carbs/3g fiber, 35g protein, 25g fat)
7:00pm: Carb Watchers Lean Body bar, 500mg HMB(18g carbs/1g fiber, 30g protein, 8g fat)
9:30pm: 4oz lean ground turkey, 1/3 cup low-fat shredded mozzarella, 1/3 cup marinara(12g carbs/3g fiber, 36g protein, 14.5g fat)
11:00pm: 3oz beef jerky, 5g fish oil, 1oz peanuts(31g carbs/3g fiber, 46g protein, 22g fat)
12:00pm: 8oz milk, 1 small piece cake(32g carbs/0g fiber, 10g protein, 10g fat)
1:00pm: 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc, 500mg HMB

Totals:
Calories: 2629kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 206g/18g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 226g/18g
Fat: 90.5g

Comments:
Okay, all thing considered. Ran out of calories before my final meal, though, which kinda sucked.

[/B]

You mean 12am and 1am right?

Erbas
10-21-2002, 04:11 PM
Hey there B&I, thanks for posting your correspondence with Lyle, though some of it was over my head. I just received my bromo and plan on starting it next Mon. I'm thinking about starting with 2.5 mg for a week then going to 5 mg...do you think thats too much at first? How long do you plan on trying bromo, if side effects don't get too unbearable? Do you take it on the days you refeed? Thanks for your help. Good luck with getting your T-shirt!

Blood&Iron
10-21-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Erbas
Hey there B&I, thanks for posting your correspondence with Lyle, though some of it was over my head. I just received my bromo and plan on starting it next Mon. I'm thinking about starting with 2.5 mg for a week then going to 5 mg...do you think thats too much at first? How long do you plan on trying bromo, if side effects don't get too unbearable? Do you take it on the days you refeed? Thanks for your help. Good luck with getting your T-shirt!
Well, personally I'd start at 1.25mg as I did. Even at that dosage, I felt fairly shitty for awhile(Tired/lethargic, stuffy nose, minor(but frequent) headaches) I think doing 2.5mg then going straight to 5mg after only a week would be a mistake. I stayed at 1.25mg for a little over a week, before I started to not feel quite so crappy and moved to 2.5mg. I stayed there for 3 days, felt ready and moved to 3.75mg. I would've moved to 5mg today, but since, as noted in my email, I've had like zero libido, and noticed yesterday my balls have sorta atrophied, I am a bit worried and decided to take a break and see if it helped. Loss of libido is not listed as one of the side effects(so far as I remember), and Lyle says no one else has commented on this, but as at least one of the abstracts posted shows it is a possibility. I don't even mind so much, but the prospect of lowered test is a bit disconcerting. I'll see what happens in the next day or two before decided on what course of action I'll take.

This being my first day off, I have to say that my hunger is through the roof; bromo definitely has a huge effect on that front.

On a side note, taking one caffeine pill(200mg which is approx what's in a cup of coffee) once or twice a day helped alleviate some of the side effects.

Oh yeah, I took it on my refeed days--mostly since it should improve glucose uptake. Maybe there's some reason not to do so, but I don't recall Lyle mentioning this in his book.

Hope that helps.

Blood&Iron
10-21-2002, 07:34 PM
Monday October 21, 2002

Ramblings
From the previous post, since I'm too lazy to write it again...


I would've moved to 5mg(of bromocriptine) today, but since, as noted in my email, I've had like zero libido, and noticed yesterday my balls have sorta atrophied, I am a bit worried and decided to take a break and see if it helped. Loss of libido is not listed as one of the side effects(so far as I remember), and Lyle says no one else has commented on this, but as at least one of the abstracts posted shows it is a possibility. I don't even mind so much, but the prospect of lowered test is a bit disconcerting. I'll see what happens in the next day or two before decided on what course of action I'll take.

I've already noticed some descending(ahem) Rather rapid. It's all a bit confusing if you ask me. Oh, and goddamn was I hungry today. That was partially because I decided to drop my carbs to 150g per day, and did a sh*tty job of spacing my meals out. Even taking that into consideration, though, I was inordinately hungry. Normally, I'm full for a good 3-4 hours after eating my lunch, and today I was hungry about 30-40min after. Bromo definitely works on that front.

Oh, and this journal will be coming to a swift demise...or at least it will cease to exist in its current incarnation. I haven't decided if I'll start a new journal or just change the format of this one considerably. There's a very exciting reason why this is happening(No, really) I've decided to keep why a secret a little longer, though. I'm sure you're all breathless in anticipation.

Exercise:

11:20am-12:10pm: Chest/Back + Legs


(Assisted) Chins
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: -80 x 10, -80 x 6, -80 x 4
Increment: n/a
Intended 10RM: -45 @ 201

Comments:
Good contraction in midback. 1st set was easy. Last two sets were both slightly difficult.

Incline DB Press
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45's x 10, 45's x 5
Increment: n/a
10RM: 65's @ 212

Comments:
Easy. Decent concentration. Was getting cramps in my hands, though.

H.S. Iso-Row
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 110 x 10, 110 x 7
Increment: n/a
Intended 10RM: 160 @ 201(x)

Comments:
1st set easy. 2nd slightly difficult. Good concentration on both.

(Assisted) Dips
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: -40 x 10, -40 x 4
Increment: n/a
10RM: bodyweight @ 101

Comments:
Good concentration. Slightly difficult.

Machine Pullover
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 75 x 10, 75 x 4
Increment: none
10RM: 135 @ 202

Comments:
Okay. Slighlty difficult. Kept hands off crossbar.

Incline Flyes
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 20's x 10, 20's x 6
Increment: none
10RM: 35's @ 212

Comments:
Decent concentration. Fairly easy.

Horizontal Leg Press
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 175 x 10, 175 x 5
Increment: n/a
Intended 10RM: 225 @ 101

Comments:
Went slightly below parallel. Good concentration. Easy.

HS Seated Leg Curl
Tempo: 313
Warmup: none
Work sets: 65 x 10, 65 x 4
Increment: n/a
10RM: 90 @ 201(x)

Comments:
Good concentration. Slightly difficult.

HS Leg Extensions
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 65 x 10
Increment: n/a
10RM: 90 @ 201(x)

Comments:
Fairly difficult.

Calf Raise-performed on incline leg press
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 87.5 x 10, 87.5 x 6
Increment: n/a
10RM: 150 @ 101(x)

Comments:
Easy. Feet started cramping on 2nd set.

Power Crunch
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 65 x 15
Increment: n/a
10RM: 90 @ 101(x)

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Overall Comments
Decent workout. Wasn't sure how I'd fare doing legs after chest/back, but it wasn't too bad. EC didn't help at all--I know you're not supposed to take it with bromo, but can't recall if bromo blocks it's effects. I would assume so, cuz I didn't feel sh*t from the EC.


Diet:


9:30am: 1/3 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 0mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(25g carbs/3g fiber, 27g protein, 3.5g fat)
11:00am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 25mg ephedrine, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
11:20am-12:10pm: 25g B&I Aid, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(25g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
12:30pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 500mg ALA, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
3:00pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/4 cup low-fat mozzarella, 1/2 cup marinara sauce, 2 cups spring mix greens, 2 tsp olive oil, 2 tsp balsamic vinegar, 1 sugar free jello, 2 tsp parmesan, 500mg HMB, 5g fish oil(17g carbs/5g fiber, 38g protein, 26g fat)
6:00pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/4 cup low-fat mozzarella, 1/2 cup marinara sauce, 2 cups spring mix greens, 1 tsp olive oil, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 2tsp parmesan, 10g fish oil(16g carbs/5g fiber, 38g protein, 26g fat)
8:45pm: 1 cookie, 1 sugar-free jello, 1oz peanuts(15g carbs/3g fiber, 8g protein, 16g fat)
9:30pm: 1 small packet tuna, 1 tbsp olive oil, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 cup skim milk, 1/2 cup mixed frozen vegetables(28g carbs/6g fiber, 50g protein, 22.5g fat)
10:00pm: 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc

Totals:
Calories: 2322kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 159g carbs/26g fiber
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 204g/40g
Fat: 90.5g

Comments:
Fairly crappy job of spacing thing out, mainly as a result of only having worked out once, whcih threw off my schedule. Otherwise, not too bad. Low in calories, though. I was aiming for 2500, and even what I did manage was as a result of packing abunch of fat in in the evening after I'd realized I'd f*cked up. Missed most of my HMB doses as well. Still, none of this is too big of a deal.

Weight: 207lbs

Sleep: 9 hours.

Miscelleneous Nah.

Maki Riddington
10-21-2002, 09:47 PM
You weigh as much as me. Are you fat like me?

Alex.V
10-21-2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Blood&amp;Iron

Oh, and this journal will be coming to a swift demise...or at least it will cease to exist in its current incarnation. I haven't decided if I'll start a new journal or just change the format of this one considerably. There's a very exciting reason why this is happening(No, really) I've decided to keep why a secret a little longer, though. I'm sure you're all breathless in anticipation.


Actually, yes.

Maki Riddington
10-21-2002, 10:48 PM
I can't hold my breath much longer.:mad:

Blood&Iron
10-22-2002, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
You weigh as much as me. Are you fat like me?
I dunno; I guess so. I'll probably post pictures of my fat, pale ass(No, not literally, thank God.) when this journal undergoes it metamorphosis. You'll be able to judge for yourself. I'm probably fatter than you--though I've leaned up a tad these last two weeks.

Erbas
10-22-2002, 07:49 AM
Thanks for answering m questions B&I. I'm gonna try the bromo Monday, but if I experience the labido loss and such, then I'm getting off it like you. My girlfriend won't tolerate a loss of libido! I hope you keep your revised journal going as I have enjoyed following your experience with bromo and your advise.
Thanks.

SJB
10-22-2002, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Erbas
Hey there B&I, thanks for posting your correspondence with Lyle, though some of it was over my head. I just received my bromo and plan on starting it next Mon. I'm thinking about starting with 2.5 mg for a week then going to 5 mg...do you think thats too much at first? How long do you plan on trying bromo, if side effects don't get too unbearable? Do you take it on the days you refeed? Thanks for your help. Good luck with getting your T-shirt!

I agree with B&I; a whole 2.5 tablet is a bit much to start with. I actually started with 1/4 of a tablet, and I did have some side effects even from that for a few days.

I'm also wondering why you plan to start Monday - is that a day off from work/school/whatever it is you do? If not, I would plan to start on such a day, since you don't know how it's going to affect you. Not to scare you or anything, but the orthostatic hypotension and the hypoglycemia can be a bit disruptive although not life-threatening.

Erbas
10-22-2002, 09:26 AM
SJB: Thanks for the advise....I'll start with a lower dosage...say 1.25 mg. Monday has always been my start time for anything new as long as I've been lifting/dieting....just habit....but your thinking that I should do it on a day that I'm off is good, just in case the effects are significant....think I'll start Sat. and give myself a couple days to check things out. Good advise! How do you like the bromo thing so far? Good results? I'm looking to lose my belly...though stopping the beermo is likely more effective than starting the bromo :)

SJB
10-22-2002, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Erbas
SJB: Thanks for the advise....I'll start with a lower dosage...say 1.25 mg. Monday has always been my start time for anything new as long as I've been lifting/dieting....just habit....but your thinking that I should do it on a day that I'm off is good, just in case the effects are significant....think I'll start Sat. and give myself a couple days to check things out. Good advise! How do you like the bromo thing so far? Good results? I'm looking to lose my belly...though stopping the beermo is likely more effective than starting the bromo :)

Yeah, I agree on stopping the beermo, but it's tough to break old habits. I'm still working on that too.

I was on the bromo for about 4 weeks, and didn't notice much change in scale weight, but I'm a little stronger and I think a little leaner. (I really need to get some calipers. The mirror test will have to do for now.) I've been dieting for a looong time, so just being able to get stronger at all is pretty cool.

I stopped the bromo and started on pergolide on Sunday, and it does seem to be a lot stronger. It's supposed to be 10X as strong as bromo, but I think it's even more than that. I was up to 5 mg of bromo, so one would think that if the 10x is right, then I wouldn't have any side effects from .125 of pergolide, but I do.

Blood&Iron
10-22-2002, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by SJB

I'm also wondering why you plan to start Monday - is that a day off from work/school/whatever it is you do? If not, I would plan to start on such a day, since you don't know how it's going to affect you. Not to scare you or anything, but the orthostatic hypotension and the hypoglycemia can be a bit disruptive although not life-threatening.
With regard to this point: be careful if you work out in the evening. I suffered a bit of dizziness/light-headedness the first day of working out my legs--though it was after my workout had concluded, thankfully. At first I'd assumed it was due to the fact that more muscle mass was involved in this workout, but I yesterday I noticed an abstract on how blood glucose(and, incidentally, cortisol) are much higher during evening workouts, than in the morning or afternoon. My first leg workout was at 7:00pm, I believe, which is several hours later than I'd usually lift.

Erbas
10-22-2002, 10:46 AM
B&I: Hopefully it won't hit me as hard...I workout at noon. I'm about to start the HST program and do full body workouts MWF. Think HST is good while cutting? Can I take creatine at the same time I'm taking bromo?....to hopefully help maintain LBM.

SJB: In what way is pergolide stronger? Why quit the bromo?

I've found limited information on results from taking bromo. Being that the two of you are the only people I know doing it, I hope you don't mind all my questions. Thanks for all you input thusfar....I really appresicate it!

and B&I, sorry for using your journal for asking all my questions...and thank you all your help....

maybe I'll start a bromo journal and riddle my own journal with questions

Blood&Iron
10-22-2002, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Erbas
B&I: Hopefully it won't hit me as hard...I workout at noon. I'm about to start the HST program and do full body workouts MWF. Think HST is good while cutting? Can I take creatine at the same time I'm taking bromo?....to hopefully help maintain LBM.

Yeah, HST works wonderfully while cutting. When I switched from a more traditional routine I experienced a noticeable increase in muscle retention. Creatine while on bromo is no problem



SJB: In what way is pergolide stronger? Why quit the bromo?

Perhaps, SJB will have something to add, but since she probably won't be back for awhile...

Lyle covers this briefly is his book, which I know you have so your best bet is to reread the pertinent sections. To recap, though: pergoglide is 10 times more potent on a mg for mg basis. It's also a D1 and D2 agonist, whereas bromo is mainy a D2 agonist(it has minimal D1 activity. ) One option, with which at least one person on the Avant board has experimented, was using nicotine, which is also both a D1 and D2 agonist along with low-dose bromo. Lyle has said he doesn't see the point in this approach. Anyways, according to Lyle, pergoglide fails a number of criteria for a good drug(price, availability, safety)



I've found limited information on results from taking bromo. Being that the two of you are the only people I know doing it, I hope you don't mind all my questions. Thanks for all you input thusfar....I really appresicate it!

and B&I, sorry for using your journal for asking all my questions...and thank you all your help....

maybe I'll start a bromo journal and riddle my own journal with questions
No problem. I don't mind questions--actually, I much prefer people post in here and keep things active. Anyways. you're in the same situation I was in. That's the reason I was myself somewhat hesitant to try bromo--little real world feedback on it being used as Lyle outlines on any of the online forums/boards/discussion groups I frequent. There's a bit of stuff over at
www.avantlabs.com
as well as a small bit on
www.theketogenicdiet.com , which is Lyle's forum. Just click on 'I own the book' and you can read the forum(can't post, though, unless you have the book)

Erbas
10-22-2002, 12:07 PM
Thanks B&I. I'll give those other links a try. Think I'll stick with the bromo, vs the pergolide, as the bromo was hard enough to find and getting from the "overseas" sites was a little trying on the nerves. ...at least I got it no problem....just leery of them.

Nicotine....is there an addiction concern? That is one vise I don't want to throw on the already teetering pile of vises....

SJB
10-22-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Blood&amp;Iron
Yeah, HST works wonderfully while cutting. When I switched from a more traditional routine I experienced a noticeable increase in muscle retention.

I totally agree - I'm on my 2nd HST cycle and I think I'm actually gaining a little muscle, even though I've been dieting for well over a year. I think that's probably a combination of HST and bromo.


Lyle covers this briefly is his book, which I know you have so your best bet is to reread the pertinent sections. To recap, though: pergoglide is 10 times more potent on a mg for mg basis. It's also a D1 and D2 agonist, whereas bromo is mainy a D2 agonist(it has minimal D1 activity. ) One option, with which at least one person on the Avant board has experimented, was using nicotine, which is also both a D1 and D2 agonist along with low-dose bromo. Lyle has said he doesn't see the point in this approach. Anyways, according to Lyle, pergoglide fails a number of criteria for a good drug(price, availability, safety)

Actually, it turned out to be cheaper and more available than he said. It may really be more than 10X stronger, in which case it may turn out to be less expensive on a daily basis.

Agreed there's not as much safety data as for bromo, simply because it hasn't been around as long, but it appears to have similar side effects. In fact, some people who can't tolerate bromo can tolerate pergolide.

Don't get me wrong though, if you feel like the bromo is working well for you then stick with it. I felt as though it may have been helping with nutrient partitioning, but it wasn't really controlling my appetite very well. I'm all for gaining muscle, but to get to my target bf% without losing weight I'd have to gain about 10-15 lbs of LBM, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

As for the nicotine, I wouldn't recommend it either. It can be highly addictive.

Blood&Iron
10-22-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Erbas

Nicotine....is there an addiction concern? That is one vise I don't want to throw on the already teetering pile of vises....
Certainly. That was/is my main concern with using it. Those who try it must at all times remain aware of its addictive potential. Didn't Koop say it was more addictive than heroin? Anyways, from what I recall most people aren't using it for any extended period of time(2 days on, 2 days off, and even that only for a few weeks) Of course, using it in such a manner probably robs one of much of its positive effects as well.

ectx
10-22-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Blood&amp;Iron

Oh, and this journal will be coming to a swift demise...or at least it will cease to exist in its current incarnation. I haven't decided if I'll start a new journal or just change the format of this one considerably. There's a very exciting reason why this is happening(No, really) I've decided to keep why a secret a little longer, though. I'm sure you're all breathless in anticipation.
[/B]

So when will this new incarnation occur? I've been reading your journal, just haven't posted in here in a while. The possibility of improvement on one of the more insightful journals in here has left me quite anxious. Can't wait.

Blood&Iron
10-22-2002, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by ectx


So when will this new incarnation occur? I've been reading your journal, just haven't posted in here in a while. The possibility of improvement on one of the more insightful journals in here has left me quite anxious. Can't wait.
The beginning of next week.

Don't get your hopes up, though. It will not be an improvement--at least not for my readers.

I would tell you more, but I'd have to kill you.

Blood&Iron
10-22-2002, 07:04 PM
Tuesday October 22, 2002

THE UNVEILING OCCURS IN...6 DAYS

Ramblings
Finally, got a response from Lyle on what he found out about bromo's effect on test. Basically, the one study which showed a decrease in test doesn't specify when the bromo was administered. Lyle has said previously that since prolactin peaks at night, taking bromo in the morning shouldn't be affecting it substantially. His suspicion was that in the study showing a decrease, the dosing was 1/2 in the morning, 1/2 in the evening. Additionally, I'd mentioned that for awhile I was staying up really late and my internal clock was messed up. He mentioned that prolactin release peaks from 2am-10am, but this is shifted in people working the night shift. So, conceivably, in my case the bromo is interfering with prolactin(Though, I've been getting to bed earlier without problems, so it's doubtful) I also took a look at some info on pergolide(which turns out to actually be from 10 to 1000 times more potent than bromo), and noticed a warning about interactions with diphenhydramine(Benadryl), which I take in the evening for allergies. I dunno if they included this merely to show that any drug, however seemingly insignificant, should be mentioned to a physician when starting a new prescriptiong, or it's mentioned because there is a specific interaction that occurs. I suspect it's the former. In any event, this is not mentioned in any of the bromo literature I've seen, so I doubt this is the problem.

Exercise:

10:15am-11:00am: Biceps/Triceps/Shoulders

Incline Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 15's x 10, 15's x 10, 15's x 6
Increment: n/a
10RM: 25's @ 111

Comments:
Quite easy. Good pump.

Decline Pronating DB Extensions
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 15's x 10, 15's x 6, 15's x 4
Increment: n/a
10RM: 25's @ 201

Comments:
1st set easy. Others, only slighlty difficult.

Lying Read Delt Lateral
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets:
Right: 10 x 10, 10 x 7
Left: 10 x 10, 10 x 7
Increment: n/a
10RM: 15 @ 202

Comments:
2nd set for each arm was slightly difficult.

Hammer Strength Behind-the-neck Press
Tempo: 212(1st set), 201(2nd and 3rd sets)
Warmup: none
Work sets: 110 x 10, 110 x 7, 110 x 4
Increment: n/a
10RM: 160 @ 101

Comments:
All sets slightly difficult.

Reverse Curl(w/ false grip)
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: 25 x 10, 25 x 10, 25 x 10
Increment: n/a
10RM: 45 @ 202

Comments:
Incredibly easy. Good pump, though.

Wrist Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 55 x 10, 55 x 10
Increment: n.a
10RM: 80 @ 202

Comments:
1st set easy. 2nd was slightly difficult.

Overall Comments
Decent workout.


Diet:


8:30am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 0mg bromocriptine(30g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 4.5g fat)
10:00am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 10g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 250mg ALA, 25mg ephedrine, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
10:25am-11:00am: 1/2 scoop B&I Aid[25g dextrose + flavorings], 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(25g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
11:10am: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
1:30pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/4 cup low-fat mozzarella, 1/2 cup marinara sauce, 2 cups spring mix greens, 1 tbsp olive oil, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1 sugar free jello, 2 tsp parmesan, 500mg HMB, 5g fish oil(17g carbs/5g fiber, 38g protein, 30g fat)
4:30pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/4 cup low-fat mozzarella, 1/2 cup marinara sauce, 2 tsp parmesan, 500mg HMB(11g carbs/3g fiber, 36g protein, 11g fat)
7:00pm: 1 cup skim milk, 1 cookie, 10g fish oil, 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 oz peanuts(27g carbs/4g fiber, 37g protein, 27g fat)
9:00pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/4 cup low-fat mozzarella, 1/2 cup marinara sauce, 2 tsp parmesan, 10g fish oil, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB(11g carbs/3g fiber, 36g protein, 21g fat)
9:30pm: 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc



Totals:
Calories: 2468kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 154g/23g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 216g/45g
Fat: 100g

Comments:
Pretty decent.



Weight: ???

Sleep: 8 hours.

Miscelleneous: My nads are doing better. I may go back on bromo tomorrow. That or I'm gonna have to start using EC or NYC. I'm freaking starving.

Blood&Iron
10-23-2002, 06:13 PM
Wednesay October 23, 2002

EXISTENCE AS YOU KNOW IT ENDS IN...5 DAYS

Ramblings
Decided to start back on bromo. Dunno if it's wise or not considering it might be shutting down my test production, but given the available evidence, I don't think it actually doing that. In any event, I just took 2.5mg today, as I wasn't sure how long one stays acclimated to the stuff once having gone off. Felt fine other than a bit tired about two hours after having taken it, and a stuffy nose for most of the day(Oddly, before I only had the stuffy nose for a few hours.) We'll see how it goes. I'm still hungry, though. I guess it was more a result of having reduced calories than gone off the bromo. I do feel less need to eat carbs, though, oddly enough.

Exercise:

11:30am-12:10pm: Chest/Back + Legs


Deads
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 205 x 10
Increment: n/a
10RM: 225 @ 101

Comments:
Not too bad--accidentally used the weight for my 5th workout of the 10's instead of my 2nd. Was very beaten afterward. So so form Not sure I was going all the way down to parallel. Also was letting my back round a bit towards the end. On a side note, when I drag the bar against my shins sometimes it feels like it's pulling the vein around--really disturbing.

(Assisted) Chins
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: -40 x 10, -40 x 3
Increment: +40lbs
Intended 10RM: -45 @ 201

Comments:
Fairly difficult. Duh. I used more than my intended 10RM. I got confused and was thinking, for some idiotic reason, this was workout 5 of the 10's rather than workout 2. Duh.

Incline DB Press
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 50 x 10
Increment: +5lbs per DB
10RM: 65's @ 212

Comments:
The was somewhat difficult. I think mostly cause I was hit up from using too much weight on the chins and was still tired from the deads.

H.S. Iso-Row
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 120 x 10, 120 x 7
Increment: +10lbs
Intended 10RM: 160 @ 201(x)

Comments:
Easy. Good concentration.

(Assisted) Dips
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: -30 x 10, -30 x 3
Increment: +10lbs
10RM: bodyweight @ 101

Comments:
Fairly easy. Good concentration.

HS Seated Leg Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 70 x 10, 70 x 3
Increment: +5lbs
10RM: 90 @ 201(x)

Comments:
Moderately difficult. Crap concentration.

HS Leg Extensions
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 70 x 10
Increment: +5lbs
10RM: 90 @ 201(x)

Comments:
Fairly difficult. So so concentration.

Calf Raise-performed on incline leg press
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 100 x 10, 100 x 5
Increment: +12.5lbs
10RM: 150 @ 101(x)

Comments:
Easy.

Power Crunch
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 70 x 15
Increment: +5lbs
10RM: 90 @ 101(x)

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Overall Comments
Decided to compress both workouts into a single one. Dropped the foo-foo stuff since I was feeling pretty worn out from using the incorrect weight on the deads and the chins and from starting back on bromo(and being off EC again) Felt fairly ill towards the end(actually, about half way through) Okay workout, thoguh.


Diet:


9:30am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 2.5mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(30g carbs/4g fiber, 29g protein, 4.5g fat)
11:00am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 25mg ephedrine, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
11:30am-12:10pm: 25g B&I Aid, 10g fructose, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(35g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
12:30pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium, 500mg ALA(30g carbs/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
2:30pm: 4oz grilled cajun chicken breast, 2 cups spring mix greens, 2 tsp olive oil, 2 tsp balsamic vinegar, 5 kalamata olives, sugar free jello, 500mg HMB, 5g fish oil(10g carbs/2g fiber, 30g protein, 18g fat)
4:30pm: 4oz grilled cajun chicken breast, 1oz peanuts, 5 mini low-fat cookies, 5g fish oil, sugar free jello(17g carbs/3g fiber, 36g protein, 24g fat)
8:00pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 cup skim milk, 1/2 cup mixed frozen vegetables, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 10g fish oil(28g carbs/6g fiber, 33g protein, 15g fat)
9:30pm: 4oz extra lean ground turkey, 1/4 cup low-fat mozzarella, 1/2 cup marinara sauce, 2 cups spring mix greens, 2 tsp olive oil, 2 tsp balsamic vinegar, 1 sugar free jello, 2 tsp parmesan, 500mg HMB(17g carbs/5g fiber, 38g protein, 22g fat)
10:00pm: 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc

Totals:
Calories: 2390kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 170g/24g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 209g/40g
Fat: 90g

Comments:
Tad low in calories. Otherwise, okay.


Weight: 203-204lbs

Sleep: 9 hours.

Miscelleneous Nope.

GeneticallyGifted
10-24-2002, 11:32 AM
This is the first time well actually the second time that I have enter your journal. I'm gonna keep watching and reading.

GG *keeping tabs on B&I*

GeneticallyGifted
10-24-2002, 11:33 AM
Oh, I forgot to ask ...."By the UNVEILING" do you mean you are posting pics soon because this is some that I want to see.

GG

Blood&Iron
10-24-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by GeneticallyGifted
Oh, I forgot to ask ...."By the UNVEILING" do you mean you are posting pics soon because this is some that I want to see.

GG
No, not really. It's actually something more exciting...but I'll be posting pictures as a part of it(Not that I'm real hot on the idea) Not sure I'll be able to get them taken within the next 3 days, though.

GeneticallyGifted
10-24-2002, 04:54 PM
If you really want to do it you'll make it happen. LOL

*as I know how excited you are to take these pics...*

Blood&Iron
10-24-2002, 08:02 PM
Thursday October 24, 2002

WHAT'S B&I'S SECRET? FIND OUT IN...4 DAYS!
...and to all the smart-asses out there: no, it's not that I'm gay.

Ramblings
Bleh.

Exercise:

Note: forgot to do my periodization table for these exercises, so my weights were all pretty much guesses...

12:30pm-1:00pm: Biceps/Triceps/Shoulders

Preacher Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 45 x 10, 45 x 4
Increment: n/a
10RM: ???

Comments:
1st set easy. 2nd slightly difficult.

Tricep Pushdown
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 120 x 10, 120 x 6
Increment: n/a
10RM: ???

Comments:
Both were easy.

Reverse Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 30 x 10, 30 x 9, 30 x 4
Increment: n/a
10RM: ???

Comments:
1st easy. 2nd slightly difficult.

Life Fitness Machine Lateral
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 60 x 10, 60 x 4
Increment: n/a
10RM: ???

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Reverse Pec Deck
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 60 x 10, 60 x 5
Increment: n/a
10RM: ???

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Wrist Curl
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 60 x 10, 60 x 4
Increment: n/a
10RM: ???

Comments:
Pretty easy

Overall Comments
So so workout. Obviously, not knowing what weight to use kinda threw things off a bit, and I felt a bit off from the bromo, but, on the whole, things went okay.



Diet:


10:00am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 3.75mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(30g carbs/4g fiber, 26g protein, 4.5g fat)
11:00am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 250mg ALA, 500mg HMB, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
12:30pm-1:00pm: B&I Aid, 10g fructose, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(35g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
1:00pm: 1 scoop HSN Driver, 1 scoop dextrose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C, 100mcg selenium(30g carb/4g fiber, 21g protein, 5g fat)
5:00pm: 4oz cajun grilled chicken, 5 olives, 2 tsp olive oil, 2tsp balsamic vinegar, 2 cups spring mix, 2oz honey roasted peanuts(20g carbs/8g fiber, 44g protein, 40g fat)
8:30pm: 8oz lean ground turkey, 2/3 cup low-fat shredded mozzarella, 1 cup marinara, 1oz peanuts(24g carbs/6g fiber, 76g protein, 32g fat)
9:00pm: 4 cookies(40g carbs/1g fiber, 2g protein, 9g fat)
10:00pm: 400mg magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc, 500mg HMB

Totals:
Calories: 2404kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 184g/21g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 191g/40g
Fat: 92g fat

Comments:
Some problems(meal timing, no fish oil, forgot to take all HMB does, ate some cookies, etc), but on the whole nothing majorly wrong. I was busy and couldn't eat after my workout until 5--hence the timing thing.


Weight: 203-204lbs--ayeeh!

Sleep: 9 hours.

Miscelleneous: Bleh.

Blood&Iron
10-25-2002, 10:04 PM
Friday October 25, 2002

YOU WILL WEEP WITH ENVY IN...3 DAYS!


Ramblings
Some dude came up to me in the locker room today and said how he was impressed with how I'd put on so much muscle since he'd joined the gym in January. I haven't, but it felt good to hear. Most times I feel like I haven't made any progress, so things like this really pick me up. I went to get a hair cut and mentioned it to the girl cutting my hair--who I hadn't had an appointment with for quite awhile--and she said she agreed with the guy. Another guy today came up and asked for some advice on how to work his front delts. Just a few days earlier, one of the personal trainers(a woman who's in pretty impressive shape--I'd actually suspected she might be using steroids as her arms and shoulders are abnormally large for a woman) said:
'More people should watch the weight you use.'
'I'm not trying to impress anybody,' I said.
'Well, you're impressive looking.' she replied.
Don't let all this fool you, though. My pictures will still be completely underwhelming. They might show some slight progress, but I'd bet it'll be negligible. I think people get confused, because I fluctuate in weight. But it's the same 10lbs of muscle and 10lbs of fat that I repeatedly lose and gain. I dunno that I've made any real progress in the last year. It's nice to hear people say I have, though.


BTW, look on page 140 of the current Ironman(December 2002) and read Jose Antonio's Anabolic Drive(the bit on taurine anyways) Then read the past Roundtable(again, the taurine questions) I'm think my little piece kicks the crap out of his--but I'm a bit biased.
Exercise:

10:55am-11:35am: Chest/Back + Legs


(Assisted) Chins
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: -35 x 10
Increment: +5lbs
Intended 10RM: -45 @ 201

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Incline DB Press
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 55's x 10
Increment: +5lbs per DB
10RM: 65's @ 212

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

H.S. Iso-Row
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 140 x 10
Increment: +20lbs
Intended 10RM: 160 @ 201(x)

Comments:
Fairly easy.

(Assisted) Dips
Tempo: 101
Warmup: none
Work sets: bodyweight x 10, bdy x 4
Increment: +30lbs
10RM: bodyweight @ 101

Comments:
Slightly difficult. Might have been slightly above parallel on 1st set.

Pullovers
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 105 x 7, 105 x 4
Increment: +15lbs
Intended 10RM: 135

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Horizontal Leg Press
Tempo: 212
Warmup: none
Work sets: 195 x 10, 195 x 5
Increment: n/a
Intended 10RM: 275 @ 101

Comments:
Slightly difficult. Shoulda used 225, but screwed up.

HS Seated Leg Curl
Tempo: 202
Warmup: none
Work sets: 75 x 10, 75 x 4
Increment: +5lbs
10RM: 90 @ 201(x)

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Calf Raise-performed on incline leg press
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 112.5 x 5, 112.5 x 5
Increment: +12.5lbs
10RM: 150 @ 101(x)

Comments:
Easy.

Power Crunch
Tempo: 201
Warmup: none
Work sets: 70 x 10
Increment: none
10RM: 90 @ 101(x)

Comments:
Slightly difficult.

Overall Comments
Felt quite nauseated towards the end of this workout. Due, in all probability, to both the bromo and the fact it was full-body routine and I moved quickly between exercises.


Diet:


9:00am: 1/2 cup Quaker instant oatmeal, 1 scoop whey, 2.5mg bromocriptine, 1 multivitamin, 400IU vitamin E, 500mg ester-C(30g carbs/4g fiber, 29g protein, 4.5g fat)
10:30am: 1 scoop whey, 10g BCAA's, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g l-glutamine, 500mg HMB, 200mg caffeine(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)
10:55am-11:35am: 25g B&I Aid, 10g fructose, 10g BCAA's, 5g l-glutamine, 5g glutamine peptide(35g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
11:40am-1:00pm: 2 scoops HSN Driver, 2 scoops dextrose, 10g fructose, 3g CLA, 500mg HMB, 1g ester-C(120g carbs/8g fiber, 42g protein, 7g fat)
1:30pm: Wendy's--broccoli and cheese potato, grilled chicken sandwich(115g carbs/11g fiber, 33g protein, 21g fat)
4:00pm: 4oz grilled cajun chicken breast, 2 scoops B&I Aid, 1 scoop Met-Rx Glycemet(90g carbs/9g fiber, 30g protein, 5g fat)
6:30pm: 2 scoops B&I Aid, 1 scoop Met-Rx Glycemet(90g carbs/9g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)
7:00pm: 4 low-fat Twinkies(112g carbs/0g fiber, 4g protein, 6g fat)
8:00pm: 6oz pasta, 1.5 cups marinara, 25g parmesan(156g carbs/12g fiber, 37g protein, 18g fat)
8:30pm: 4 cups Count Chocula, 2 cups skim milk(128g carbs/0g fiber, 16g protein, 4g fat)
9:00pm: 6 low-fat Twinkies, 2 cups skim milk(186g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 9g fat)
10:00pm: 400g magnesium, 30mg l-opti-zinc

Totals:
Calories: 4846kcal
Carbs/Fiber: 953g/53g
Protein/Free-form Aminos: 213g/40g
Fat: 76g

Comments:
Way too much fat--it was only 14% of my total calories, though. It's hard to keep fat real low when you eat this much. I didn't really eat anything too overboard, but all the smaller amounts add up. Not too bad, though.


Weight: ???

Sleep: 9 hours.

Miscelleneous Pfft.

rookiebldr
10-26-2002, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by Blood&amp;Iron But it's the same 10lbs of muscle and 10lbs of fat that I repeatedly lose and gain. I dunno that I've made any real progress in the last year. It's nice to hear people say I have, though.

I'm beginning to think that the tool (caliper) we use to measure ourselves with is very flawed. Knowing in advance that it is not accurate doesn't seem to help much when we stake so much of our progress on all those pinches. I have yet to post before pics, so ppl could compare the difference and see if I've actually changed, however, I cannot believe that after more than a year, I have gained not one ounce of muscle and yet that is what the calipers would have me believe. I say this because the people that you mention above, likely have a better view of your progress than you think and I bet a year has made an incredible difference.

*goes looking for his issue of Ironman only to find out that it's November's - grrrr*

*continues to wait with baited breath for the great unveiling of B&I's secret*

Blood&Iron
10-26-2002, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by rookiebldr


I'm beginning to think that the tool (caliper) we use to measure ourselves with is very flawed. Knowing in advance that it is not accurate doesn't seem to help much when we stake so much of our progress on all those pinches. I have yet to post before pics, so ppl could compare the difference and see if I've actually changed, however, I cannot believe that after more than a year, I have gained not one ounce of muscle and yet that is what the calipers would have me believe. I say this because the people that you mention above, likely have a better view of your progress than you think and I bet a year has made an incredible difference.

Yeah, calipers are prone to error(dependent mostly on the person using them) I had a decent amount of faith in the guy I originally had doing my tests, but since he left and I switched to another person I've been a bit more dubious as to the validity of the results. Until I find out a way to be hydrostatically weighed, there the best I can do, though. I tend to like scientific, objective ways of measuring progress. But I suppose, really, the mirror is all that counts. I certainly think I've made progress, and after 4 years of being at this, I think that's saying something. I'd like something a bit more concrete, though. Who knows? Maybe I'll get the pictures back and they'll show a noticeable difference. I can only hope.




*goes looking for his issue of Ironman only to find out that it's November's - grrrr*

*continues to wait with baited breath for the great unveiling of B&I's secret*
At least there's one person. The response to my attempt at generating excitement has been underwhelming, to say the least.

Blood&Iron
10-27-2002, 08:02 PM
Sunday October 27, 2002


'IS THERE A GOD?'
'WHAT IS THE MEANING OF LIFE?'
'IS THERE OTHER INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE?'
'WHY ARE MOVIE HOT DOGS SWEATY?'

IMPORTANT QUESTIONS, ALL OF THEM.
BUT THEY ALL PALE IN COMPARISON TO THE QUESTION OF:
'WHAT HAS B&I BEEN KEEPING SECRET FOR THE LAST WEEK?'

FIND OUT...TOMORROW!

Ramblings
I skipped my entry for yesterday as I didn't get home till fairly late last night, and didn't feel like doing it at 3am. Besides, yesterday and today I sorta took a brief breather from my diet(nothing too extreme, though)

Exercise:
None.

Diet:
Skipping today...

Totals:
Calories:
Carbs/Fiber:
Protein/Free-form Aminos:
Fat:

Comments:
Crappy, but I sorta took the day off.
[/list]

Weight: ???

Sleep: 8 hours.

Miscelleneous: Nope.

Paul Stagg
10-27-2002, 08:13 PM
So, a big secret, huh?

MWB
10-28-2002, 05:44 AM
I'll take a guess. Are you going to be one of the testers for the new cycle-1-test from 1fast400? I got an email from him a few days ago stating he was looking for people.

Blood&Iron
10-28-2002, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by MWB
I'll take a guess. Are you going to be one of the testers for the new cycle-1-test from 1fast400? I got an email from him a few days ago stating he was looking for people.
Nope, that'd be cool, but it's not quite exciting enough for all the fanfare I've been giving this announcement.

BTW, isn't that the lastest Pat Arnold product? I haven't been keeping up on things.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-30-2002, 07:16 AM
Is this gonan make me cum in my pants?

If so, i'll get some Kleenex.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-30-2002, 07:53 AM
This had better not be a cock-tease, man. tuttut

Like those guns that look cool but when you pull the trigger all they do is fire out a flag with 'Bang!' written on it.

Blood&Iron
10-30-2002, 08:08 AM
IT'S COMING. PREPARE YOURSELF.

Blood&Iron
10-30-2002, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Is this gonan make me cum in my pants?

If so, i'll get some Kleenex.
Maybe.

Erbas
10-30-2002, 09:16 AM
Hey B&I
Looking forward to the big announcement....thought it was supposed to be here by now...guess it's all the anticipation making it seem like forever;)

Still on the bromo? I started mine Monday at 1.25 mg. Really haven't seen any side effects...at least nothing blatant. I moved up to 2.5 mg....still nothing regarding side effects. I'm increased the dosage because my appetite really didn't adjust with 1.25 mg. I'm keeping a log of everthing. Measurements and such. Doing this for 2 reasons: bromo and HST. Started HST and I am enjoying it thusfar...only in my second week of 15's but I like the motivation I have to get in the gym.

Hope your next journal is as informative as this one has been...look forward to it!

Blood&Iron
10-30-2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Erbas
Hey B&I
Looking forward to the big announcement....thought it was supposed to be here by now...guess it's all the anticipation making it seem like forever;)

It was supposed to be on Monday, but that's when WBB went down. Sorta stole my thunder. So, I figured I'd hold off until a little later today, and try to drum some anticipation back up.



Still on the bromo? I started mine Monday at 1.25 mg. Really haven't seen any side effects...at least nothing blatant. I moved up to 2.5 mg....still nothing regarding side effects. I'm increased the dosage because my appetite really didn't adjust with 1.25 mg. I'm keeping a log of everthing. Measurements and such. Doing this for 2 reasons: bromo and HST. Started HST and I am enjoying it thusfar...only in my second week of 15's but I like the motivation I have to get in the gym.

Hope your next journal is as informative as this one has been...look forward to it!
I went off for a day and started back at 1.25mg. Cool that you're not having side effects. Actually, I dunno if it's bad or good. From what I understand, the side effects are a direct result of DA activation. In my (uneducated) view, that would seem to suggest that the more side effects one is having the more DA activation you're getting. Perhaps that's why even 1.25mg noticeably suppressed my appetite, but still gives me a stuffy nose and makes me feel kinda crappy. Still, I'm envious. Bromo makes me feel like crap. I'm still hoping it'll go away if I stay at a low enough dosage, long enough.

Glad you're enjoying HST thus far. I think you'll have very good results from it--provided you're following the protocol properly.

Oh, and I don't think I'm gonna starta a new journal since this one is only like 2 weeks old; I'd have to change my name to BloodStar. Maybe I'll change my mind, but I'm planning on just making a few changes to this one. We'll see.

Blood&Iron
10-30-2002, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
This had better not be a cock-tease, man. tuttut

Like those guns that look cool but when you pull the trigger all they do is fire out a flag with 'Bang!' written on it.

Why the hell are your responses showing up before my posts, to which you're responding? Methinks there are some gremlins in the new server.

Maki Riddington
10-30-2002, 05:05 PM
Just announce it damn it!!!

Marcel
10-30-2002, 05:15 PM
tease