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kathnmarc
10-10-2002, 07:02 AM
Is the Atkins diet a good choice for someone wanting to gain mass and get ripped at the same time? Is this safe? Am I making a big mistake. Any comments/help is greatly appreciated.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-10-2002, 07:10 AM
Not really, no.

gaining mass usually requires a surplus of calories.

Getting 'ripped' usually requires a deficit of calories.

Unless you're a new trainer, extremely fat, both or using drugs, it's an unlikely scenario.

Atkins is a poor chocie for gaining mass.

It is also a poor choice for getting 'ripped', IMO.


How new are you to the lifting idea?

kathnmarc
10-10-2002, 08:33 AM
I lifted for a couple of years back in my teen days, but just started back up recently. I do have some excess fat to get rid of, but not like the typical 32 year old. I want to cut up, but I do not want to sacrifice "bulk building" time. Any suggestions? Basically, I am a beginner, but am very serious about my body and my health....I do not drink, smoke, or do drugs, I just need to finish up by building the best body I can.

mightypudge
10-10-2002, 08:44 AM
Kathnmarc,

I'm basically in the same situation. I was 275 lbs. but worked my way down to 225 with Weight Watchers. Then I started getting into lifting and realized my calorie intake was too low.

Basically, bodybuilding appears to be made up of two general phases: Bulking and Cutting.

During Bulking phases, you need to keep your calories, proteins, and carbs relatively high. The protein adds the mass to your muscles while the carbs give you the energy you need. I'm on a 2600 calorie diet, and I'm going for at least 175 g. of protein, 115 g. fat, and 230 g. carbs.

During Cutting phases (which I am not too familiar with yet), you would need to drop your calorie intake.

I would stay away from Atkins. I robs you of carbs, which you need. It also has a high drop-off ratio. Many people that start Atkins usually don't last too long because they begin to crave carbs.

Stray
10-10-2002, 09:23 AM
Do a search for "CKD" for a better diet plan than the whole Atkins thing.

kathnmarc
10-10-2002, 10:05 AM
Where should I search for CKD? On this site or on the internet? Google only brings up a bunch of junk. What does CKD stand for?

Stray
10-10-2002, 10:20 AM
Do a search on this forum (SEARCH up top of this page) for CKD..it stands for Cyclical Ketogenic Diet...basically no carbs all week then on weekends you carb to your hearts content..this is a very very basic description of it.
You'll find better info in the search tool or maybe try:

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/mcdonald/training-on-ketogenic-diet.htm

bradley
10-10-2002, 01:50 PM
The articles at the top of the forum can provide some good information.

Yanick
10-10-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by kathnmarc
I do not drink, smoke, or do drugs

We do NOT condone such actions around here Mr.

J/K man, i actually respect that.

For a beginner LC'ing or CKD'ing is useless. A nice balanced diet and a good training routine will yeild great results (lose fat, add muscle).

Stray
10-10-2002, 02:42 PM
A good routine for a very beginner would be following the Body For Life challenge..it teaches you alot of the basics and once your 12 weeks are up you can take all you've learned and tweak it according to what goals you have in mind.

kathnmarc
10-11-2002, 08:17 AM
I must have beginner's jitters because I am afraid that the amount of lifting I do (about an hour a day) is not enough to burn the calories I could take in if I stop the Atkins thing. Am I being to green by thinking this way?

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-11-2002, 10:13 AM
An hour a day?!

You may post your training routine and split for criticisim.

when you come off the atkins you'll put on some weigt from water and glycogen as your muscle cells (and liver) refill with the carbs, but it's not gonna be fat gain if you control your calories.

perfecto
10-11-2002, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Yanick



For a beginner LC'ing or CKD'ing is useless. A nice balanced diet and a good training routine will yeild great results (lose fat, add muscle).

How come these diets are useless to a beginner?

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-12-2002, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by perfecto


How come these diets are useless to a beginner?

They're not "useless" in the real sense, but since beginners can add a decent amount of muscle while dropping a decent amount of fat at the same time, providing good training, doing a low carb or keto diet would just hinder the muscle gaining aspect compared to a more balanced diet.

They could still gain on a keto diet, but it's a poor choice IMO.

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 06:37 AM
Here is my routine and split for everyone's opinion:

Day 1 : chest, shoulders, triceps
4 sets flat bench
4 sets incline bench
3 sets flyes

4 sets military press
3 sets lateral raises
4 sets shrugs

4 sets overhead tri dumbell raises
4 sets tricep kickbacks

day 2 : back, biceps, forearms

4 sets pullups
4 sets bent dumbell row
3 sets back extensions

4 sets barbell curls
4 sets hammer curls
4 sets reverse curls
3 sets concentration curls

3 sets wrist curls
3 sets rev wrist curls
3 sets wrist twists

day 3 : legs

4 sets squats
3 sets leg ext
3 sets leg curls
5 sets seated calf raises

pick it over, let me know. Thanks for all the help guys.

Pup
10-12-2002, 06:54 AM
Way too much volume, especially for a low carb type diet...not sure where i should start giving advice...because i think you are doing too much volume for every set but legs...biceps is going to be way overtrained...pick two exercises for those, 2 sets each.

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 07:16 AM
Too much volume??? I thought maybe not enough. Can I make gains on 2 sets????

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 07:29 AM
See, I have found that I love training and the burn associated with it. 2 sets just never seems like enough even though I try to work to failure each set.

Pup
10-12-2002, 07:57 AM
the burn isn't necessary...and hypertrophy is not predicated on volume, but intensity...if you do two hard sets to failure or just short of failure, you will grow...

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-12-2002, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by kathnmarc
See, I have found that I love training and the burn associated with it. 2 sets just never seems like enough even though I try to work to failure each set.

Say you're hammering a nail into a plank of wood.

After two hits, it's in nicely. Would you continue to keep hitting it?

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 08:23 AM
so intensity is just as good or better than any type of lengthy daily routine???? how long do you all work out a day??? how many body parts, etc? This is all news to me.....of course I haven't trained seriously since 1989. (I'm probably using 1989 style training) lol

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 08:33 AM
Good analogy chicken daddy, but if i'm blowing up a balloon, do more breaths or fewer breaths make it bigger??? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just need to understand. I'm one of those inquisitive ones.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-12-2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by kathnmarc
Good analogy chicken daddy, but if i'm blowing up a balloon, do more breaths or fewer breaths make it bigger??? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just need to understand. I'm one of those inquisitive ones.

Good one!

No one seems to quite know the real mechanism behind 'optimal' stimulation of hypertrophy (growth), but what is known, however, is that there seems to be a bell-shaped curve, underneath which hypertrophy resides. Basically, do too little and you'll not grow/grow optimally/potentially regress and do too much and you'll not grow/grow optimally/potentially regress.

All those sets are basically overkill.

You lift weights (hopefully in a progressive overload fashion) to damage the muscle fibres so the body can repair them bigger and stronger. You can potentially damage them 'too much' by doing all those sets and all to failure.

Weightlifting is also quite traumatic for the body, so under conditions like these it releases various hormones, one being cortisol, which is very catabolic.

Ideally, you wanna get the job done with fewer sets, sooner so you can get your ass out of a catabolic state, throw down some protein and carbs and get back to growing. Ideally, 30-40 minutes training is prolly best.

Either stop shy of failure on most of those sets or, like Pup said, cut your work sets in half - except for leg day maybe, and spread the days out evenly throughout the week. Monday, wednesday, friday is good.

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 09:47 AM
How would you rate training each body part once a week? I have heard of this...does it do any good.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-12-2002, 09:51 AM
Depends how you're training.

If you're going to and beyond failure on every set (with reduced volume compared to your routine earlier) then once a week is super.

If you're doing some sort of hypertrophy-specific protocol, then hitting a bodypart thrice weekly is fine (do a search on 'hypertrophy-specific training' or 'HST' if you're unsure what that is).

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 10:56 AM
I wish I knew which one works best for gaining mass for me individually. Is trial and error the only way to find out?

Holto
10-12-2002, 10:58 AM
great advice here...

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 11:07 AM
I need size, size, and more size!!!!!!!!

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 11:20 AM
THIS PLACE IS FLAT OUT AWESOME! VERY INFORMATIVE.

perfecto
10-12-2002, 11:38 AM
what does IMO mean, ive seen it alot on these posts?

kathnmarc
10-12-2002, 12:22 PM
In My Opinion

Pup
10-13-2002, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by kathnmarc
I wish I knew which one works best for gaining mass for me individually. Is trial and error the only way to find out?

Mass gaining, with regards to training, can be easy to figure out...start out with a lower volume approach, high weights and a moderate rep scheme; 4-6 rep range. Keep your calories about 500 above maintenance and go from there...if you find you are gaining too much fat with above mentioned scenario...only go at 250 cals above maintenance...if you find that also is not giving desired results *mostly fat gain/minimal muscle gain* then it is time to alter aspects of the routine...there is no magical formula, but through intelligent training w/high intensity and a good base for your diet, you can achieve some good results.

kathnmarc
10-13-2002, 06:57 AM
Thanks for all the help.....this place is a hell of a lot better than all of those muscle and fitness rags I read when I was younger. When I am experienced and know a thing or two about a thing or two, I will help newbies like myself. Get a little, give a little....that's what it's all about.