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mrlifter
10-13-2002, 08:37 PM
HI
Can someone please tell me why muscle needs carbs (glucose)?
obviously muscle needs carbs pre workout to fuel the weights session and post workout to replenish muscle glucose, but why does muscle need carbs at other times......can someone PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME ON THIS!!!!!!...thanx,,,,

ALSO, what is muscle made of..apart from protein? why does filling muscle with glucose make a difference to it ( apart from the pre workout fuel it gains of course)..at all other times, what is the point in having glucose in muscle?

THANX SO MUCH FRIENDS...

duque21
10-14-2002, 12:02 AM
BUMP

Robboe..........Please enlighten our Lad here, You can get this done much more effectivly than me.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-14-2002, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by mrlifter
HI
Can someone please tell me why muscle needs carbs (glucose)?
obviously muscle needs carbs pre workout to fuel the weights session and post workout to replenish muscle glucose, but why does muscle need carbs at other times......can someone PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME ON THIS!!!!!!...thanx,,,,

ALSO, what is muscle made of..apart from protein? why does filling muscle with glucose make a difference to it ( apart from the pre workout fuel it gains of course)..at all other times, what is the point in having glucose in muscle?

THANX SO MUCH FRIENDS...


It doesn't need carbs per se, but they're extremely beneficial.

Basically, insulin causes translocation of GLUT4 receptors to the membrane of the cell so nutrients can get in. Protein caues insulin release and can do this. However, carbs illicit a more favourable insulin response as far as this is concerned.

Incidentally, lifting weights (read: muscle contractions) cause this to happen also, so lifting increases insulin sensitivity. (If you're that interested as far as this is concerned, look up 'insulin independant glucose uptake'). Which is the reason why the whole "window of opportunity" thing came from as far as post workout shakes go. The nutrient partitioning effects of lifting basically mean that post train, pretty much whatever you eat in those 3 or so hours will go towards muscle replenishment and repair.

One problem (but also beneficial as far as a leptin standpoint is viewed, but i'll not go into that aspect) is that insulin causes translocation of GLUT4 on all cells with the receptors, so it's just as anabolic for muscle cells as it is fat cells (read: it can get you fat if cals are in surplus). Which is basically why natural trainers should expect some fat gain while on a gaining phase - even when using a 'clean' diet and adding a small amount of weight each week. However doing this greatly influences the muscle to fat gain ratio (read: more muscle, less fat). Lifting increases GLUT4 on muscle cells selectively, not fat cells. So post workout, whatever you eat will go to muscle and not fat (or more to muscle, less to fat). So again, the nutrient partitioning effect of lifting comes forth.

So, moral of the story is: eating carbs thoughout the day put you in a more anabolic environment.

Also, carbs = calories. You need calories to grow.

You can grow on a protein and fat diet, but it's a good idea to do some sort of carb loads periodically if you intend to take this route. But note that this idea won't necessarily mean more muscle and less fat added during a gaining phase.

Why do you want to know the make up of muscle?

No doubt i'll forget stuff here, but it's predominantly water. The structure is made from protein, and there's some sort of fat (saturated i believe) in the cell membrane.

There'll be stuff like vitamins and minerals in the cells too, but whether they actually make the cell itself i have no idea.

Eat glucose and, providing there's room, some will be stored as glycogen (the stored form of glucose). 1g of stored glucose holds 3-4g of water, so eating glucose volumises the cell with water. A hydrated cell promotes anabolism. A dehyrated cell promotes catabolism.

But again, that's not to say a depleted muscle cell will be catabolised. Maybe if in calorie deficit, but if you're sending the signals for the body to hold onto muscle tissue (read: weight lifting the same heavy-ass weights) then the body will try it's best to retain the tissue for any future events.

But if your diet is lacking in calories, you're gonna lose some muscle. It's just u to you to minimise the amount lost. Again, a good idea with any diet is to have periodical carb loads, to combat this effect somewhat, but also for the leptin aspect touched upon above.

Carbs (compared to say, fat) are also more micronutrient dense. So (non-processed) carbs sources generally have more vitamins, mineral and phytochemicals.

Stuff like dextrose is naturally occuring, but it has no other values except for sugar (energy). So there are exceptions (as there are to pretty much every rule), but going from info above, try and use more non-processed (low GI) carbs at other times of the day. Low GI for satiety and slower burning reasons mentioned in loads of other threads.

That do ya?

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-14-2002, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

Basically, insulin causes translocation of GLUT4 receptors to the membrane of the cell so nutrients can get in.


On a side note, this is how ALA works.

ALA is known as an 'insulin mimicker', because it mimics insulin actions by causing GLUT4 translocation.

Of course, it's not selective of the type of call it causes this to happen, so it does it to fat cells also. Which is why diabetics like the stuff so much. They don't care where the blood sugar is going as long as it is out of the blood stream!

It's also the reason why high doses of ALA can get people into ketosis quicker.

AJ_11
10-14-2002, 08:25 AM
What would you recommend for Pre & Post Nutrition as far as the grams per pound of carbs and protein go, for a bulking diet -- but I want to minimize fat gain.

TIA

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-14-2002, 08:39 AM
Well, pre i just eat whatever meal is scheduled.

Post i'd go for simple carbs + protein. (+whatever else people like to throw in, like creatine, glutamine etc...)

As far as actual weight-to-serving ratios, i don't particularly care myself, cause i focus more on overall calories, but you may find this article (http://www.mindandmuscle.net/magazine/i5nutrition.html) helpful.

duque21
10-14-2002, 01:41 PM
Robboe one of the best post I have yet to read on here, Nice Job:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

entrrt
10-14-2002, 09:24 PM
well said, well typed :)

perfecto
10-15-2002, 01:11 PM
gr8 article!