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Tank23
10-26-2002, 02:25 AM
I've been reading a bit about the whole Leptin thing lately and I've decided to incorporate refeeds into my cutting cycle. Every Saturday I will eat a surplus of calories, but I don't know how much over maintenance I should eat. I weight 165lbs, so my maintenance is about 2500cals.

Also, lets say I eat 3500 cals on this refeed day, and all of the surplus calories were stored as fat, how much weight would I gain? and If i were to be at a caloric deficit of 300cals for 6 days of the week, how much weight (fat mass) would I lose in a week?

thatdaveguy
10-26-2002, 03:29 AM
woah... my head hurts... let me call my accountant...

Really, keep it simple. unless you are in the IBFF is all that really necessary?

dave

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-26-2002, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Tank23
Also, lets say I eat 3500 cals on this refeed day, and all of the surplus calories were stored as fat, how much weight would I gain? and If i were to be at a caloric deficit of 300cals for 6 days of the week, how much weight (fat mass) would I lose in a week?

First thing: chances of all the calories being stored as fat = slim. Providing you overfeed on carbs of course.

set protein at around 165g (660kcals), fat at around 10% (~350kcals [~38g, from carb and protein sources - i.e. don't add any fat to meals]), the remainder from carbs. That leaves you with ~620g carbs lol, but i don't think that amount is entirely necessary, unless you're already doing some sort of low carb diet maybe.

About 400-500g in, say, 12 hours (so that's like a waking day or so - i.e. while you're awake).

So to meet numbers or there abouts, go for stuff like oats, pastas etc... that sort of thing. Kids cereals are a big hit with refeeders.

Tank23
10-26-2002, 08:14 AM
so do you think refeeding is a good idea Chigs?

Btw...I'm not on a low carb diet, i'm keeping carbs at a moderate level. I think refeeding still applies even though I'm not on low carbs, right?

Also why do I have to eat mainly carb sources? If I'm eating carbs during the week, won't that get stored as fat since glycogen stores will already be full?

thatdaveguy: Why keep it simple for? It's not that complicated anyway. Eat more on saturdays. I think that's pretty straight forward dude.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-26-2002, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Tank23
so do you think refeeding is a good idea Chigs?

It can be yeah. I'm undecided when they should be introduced though. B&I says straight away to prevent the initial drop in leptin, but i dunno - i reckon you can probably go for a few weeks into a diet before they become absolutely warranted.

That is going off the fact that about 15% bf or below. If you're higher then there really isn't all the need for a refeed. So in that regards, you can go for a few weeks without a refeed.

Then again, it depends on your body type and degree of leptin sensitivity. You may notice symptoms arise indicating a refeed is required from quite a high bf%. Some may notice no problems until the 10% mark.



Btw...I'm not on a low carb diet, i'm keeping carbs at a moderate level. I think refeeding still applies even though I'm not on low carbs, right?

Yeah, it can. Or some sort of carb loading at least. Cyclical diets just make a lot of sense.



Also why do I have to eat mainly carb sources? If I'm eating carbs during the week, won't that get stored as fat since glycogen stores will already be full?

No. De neuvo lipogenesis rarely occurs (unless you overfeed on a LOT [like 700g or so i think] for at least two days i think it is, might be wrong though).

Besides, overspilling glycogen stores is what you want to do. You need the carbs to be metabolised by the fat cells to produce more UD-acetylglucosamine, or whatever the fcuk it's called, so the body thinks it's in a fedstate and can signal leptin expression.

Of all the carbs you eat, some will be oxidised for energy, in fact most will, cause when you suddenly influx the body with carbs it responds by cranking up metabolism and carb oxidisation to almost waste the calories. Some will be stored as glycogen, some will just pass out of you (egestion, although this isn't a huge amount, probably trace amounts in most cases) and some will go towards fat cell metabolism. Any fat gain during this period will most likely be negated by the leptin upregulation and will go quite fast in the following days once you're back in calorie deficit. With some more fat, most likely. It's essentially a two steps forward, one step back approach.

Tank23
10-27-2002, 04:42 AM
thanks a lot chigs...it all makes sense now.

You say that 'cyclical diets just make a lot of sense,' I was thinking of going on a CKD purely because of the fact that you do weekend carb ups and that will really help to keep you on the diet if you can look forward to something.

Would you recommend a CKD? I really don't like the way that you're supposed to do your training on monday and tuesday while glycogen stores are full, then a depletion workout of friday..coz i'm doing HST and that will go against its principals. If I weren't to do the workouts on mon, tue..instead doing mon-wed-fri, will i feel sluggish for the wed and fri workout?

restless
10-27-2002, 05:12 AM
You could do an extra light depletion workout on saturday mornings or something like that and then start your refeed. No problem with that as long as you keep it light.

The_Chicken_Daddy
10-27-2002, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Tank23
thanks a lot chigs...it all makes sense now.

You say that 'cyclical diets just make a lot of sense,' I was thinking of going on a CKD purely because of the fact that you do weekend carb ups and that will really help to keep you on the diet if you can look forward to something.

Would you recommend a CKD? I really don't like the way that you're supposed to do your training on monday and tuesday while glycogen stores are full, then a depletion workout of friday..coz i'm doing HST and that will go against its principals. If I weren't to do the workouts on mon, tue..instead doing mon-wed-fri, will i feel sluggish for the wed and fri workout?

Well it doesn't have to be a cyclical low carb diet - just any diet involving some sort of periodical carb loading or refeeding.

If you don't like the training structure of a CKD, then do a TKD and carb up every other week.

Tank23
10-27-2002, 08:39 PM
good idea mate.....thanks alot chigs and restless

Yanick
10-28-2002, 09:38 AM
why even go the CKD/TKD route? I didn't notice much of a difference in fat loss when i went off of my CKD. No need for extremes, just drop your cals, lower your carbs and replace with fat/protein. I get about 60g or so of carbs a day, anything under 100g of carbs/day will put in ketosis to some degree but i just didn't like the burnt out feeling you get at the end of the week on a CKD. Plus i still get all the advantages of increase CCK and all that since my diet is mostly protein/fat. The weekend carb-up takes care of leptin, ghrelin, NPY et al.

Tank23
11-01-2002, 05:53 AM
what's CCK?

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-01-2002, 09:32 AM
Cholecytokinin.

It's a gut hormone released to tell the brain that the stomach has had enough food for now and it's time to stop eating. Basically, "I'm full so quit eating you fat ass." :)

So it's an appetite suppressing hormone.

Ghrelin is an appetite stimulating hormone. One refeed alone ain't gonna combat it, cause it rises about 4 or so hours after your last feeding but it's a gut hormone that tells your brain it's time to start looking for food. It drives neuropeptide Y (NPY) which is the bastard little ****er that is responsible for sugar cravings.

Tank23
11-04-2002, 04:09 AM
lol. Thanks a lot Chigs.