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Saturday Fever
11-04-2002, 03:42 PM
I hate the idea of flopping through journals for the sake of a new routine, but I decided to try my hand at creating a routine of my own with the goals in mind being strength and size. It's mildly based on Westside, and mildly based on bits and pieces of wisdom I've gathered from Supertraining, as well as tidbits I've read from a few other members here.

There is no set schedule for this routine. I'll be using the "Two-Factor Model of Training" as defined by Dr. Siff to determine gym days. That is to say, in a nutshell, that I will return for the next similar workout when my body is no longer showing/feeling negative traces from the previous workout. The splkit will be 2 upper body and 2 lower body workouts ad will look like this:

Power Upper Body
ME Lift: Done ala Westside. Warming up with sets of 3 and dropping to singles and working to a 1RM.

Floor Press
Board Press
Ball Press
Decline Bench

Skullcrushers: 6x8-10 Not to failure, with the exception of the last set.
Push Downs: 3x10 Never to failure.
Overhead DB Extension: 3x10 Never to failure

Power Lower Body
ME Lift: Done ala Westside. Warming up with sest of 3 and dropping to singles and working to a 1RM.

Squats
Deadlifts (any variant)
Good AMs

SLDL: 5x5 Only on days the ME is NOT a deadlift, otherwise:
Hyperextensions: 5x5 Not to failure.
Rows: 3x10 Any type of row, not to failure.
Abs: 5x10 Any abs work will do, and I tend to fail at some point regardless what I say.

Speed/Hypertrophy Upper Body
Speed Bench: 8-10x3
DB Flies: 3x8 Working here for pec development, not for functional strength.
Pushups: 2x30 Just for grins.
Side Lateral Raises: 3x10 No failure.
Bentover Lateral Raises: 3x10 No failure.
Curls: 2x20 Any flavor of curls, try not to fail.

Speed/Hypertrophy Lower Body
Speed Squats: 8-10x2
Leg Extension: 3x10-12
Hamstring Curls: 3x6-8
Pullups/downs: 2xfailure Is this obvious?
Rows: 3x12-15 Lighter weights, more reps.

So I'll give this a whirl and see how my body likes it and how it results for me. Like I said, if the Power Day negative traces last for 2 days, I'll do the Speed/Hypertrophy day after 6 days, using Zatsiorsky's idea that rest time = negative days * 3.

TMan
11-04-2002, 03:56 PM
Looks good, SF! So what exactly are negative traces? DOMS?

Saturday Fever
11-04-2002, 04:00 PM
That is one "trace" I think. Also, general weakness in the muscles worked. I also seem to feel like I'm starving after hard workouts. Literally days where no matter how much I eat it never feels like it's enough.

If those traces are gone after 1 day, then I'll perform the speed/hypertrophy day in 3 days. If it lasts for 2 days, I'll perform again in 6 days, etc. Otherwise, I'll open the routine with a day break between upper and lower body.

MonStar
11-04-2002, 04:04 PM
First of all, good luck with the new routine. :thumbup::thumbup:


Originally posted by Saturday Fever
That is one "trace" I think. Also, general weakness in the muscles worked. I also seem to feel like I'm starving after hard workouts. Literally days where no matter how much I eat it never feels like it's enough.

Wow---now what is this about SF? Because I experience this all the time actually. After a good hard workout I am literally friggin' STARVING all day. This usually ends up being a binge day in a sense. Near 5000 calories I would say. Ends up being WAY overboard. I definitely experience this quite often, LOL.

Saturday Fever
11-04-2002, 04:09 PM
Well, I lack the terminology to explain this properly, but I believe it's just another way my body tells me it's recovering. Anytime my diet starts slipping, a good hard day at the gym will cure it everytime. Honestly, I think these starving days are the absolute best time to binge and pig out.

I would guess the starving comes from something hormonal, and the eating is almost an "anabolic window" and that I should fill it. Also I've noted that when I eat like a horse on these days, I seem to add more "lean" mass than usual. I say "lean" because I'm not saying it's ALL muscle, but it is definitely less fat than if I just DECIDED to eat 5000 calories.

MonStar
11-04-2002, 04:26 PM
Totally agreed SF. I feel the same way about those days when I am completely starving. I feel like I dont gain much fat pigging out on food after a good hard workout. Generally if I am going to eat a lot I try to make sure that I do it on training days. And of those training days very demanding days, like leg or back day. Just a personal preference. But after a hard leg session I am ready to eat all damn day, I never get full.

Saturday Fever
11-05-2002, 12:33 AM
Power Upper Body

3 Board Press: 8x135 3x155 3x185 3x205 1x215 1x225 1x235
Skullcrushers: 10x65 9x75 4x85 1x95 8x65
Push Downs: 10x50 8x60 10x50
OH DB Extension: 10/10x15 9/8x20 10/9x15
(the 10/10 means each arm had 10)

The 235 is the best I've ever done off 3 boards. On skulls I wanted to get an idea what a 1RM would be so I can do some percentage-based progress tracking. Everything else went alright. Plan to eat like a madman the next few days. I'll be keeping track of negative days so I can get a good time selected to do my next upper body workout.

MonStar
11-05-2002, 08:59 AM
Nice workout SF! 3 Board Press strength is definitely looking good man. Keep up the hard work, seriously. Skullcrusher strength looks damn good too. Do you have any goals weight wise SF? Like do you want to reach 215-220? Or do you plan to just hover around 210 and focus on strength?

Saturday Fever
11-05-2002, 10:30 AM
I wantto get around 240. I don't want it to be all fat, but I'm not going to worry about it much either.

Workhorse
11-05-2002, 12:04 PM
Lookin' good SF. What's your diet like if you're trying to get up to 240 from 210? Take any supps?

Looks like you have great back strength, but keep working on the chest strength. How old are you? Keep up the good work!

Workhorse

Saturday Fever
11-05-2002, 12:18 PM
Currently I'm only weighing in around 190. I had a week of drinking and poor dieting that I have to recover from. My diet usually consists of 3500-4000 calories a day. I'm going to put my best foot forward towards making that 4500-5000 a day and see where it gets me. I don't take any supplements, per se, unless protein counts

I'm 25 these days. I think my chest strength is decent, but because of my chest size and long arms I have a huge ROM that seems to hinder me. I think I found my sticking point yesterday, though, so we shall see what I can do. And thanks!

Workhorse
11-05-2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Currently I'm only weighing in around 190. I had a week of drinking and poor dieting that I have to recover from. My diet usually consists of 3500-4000 calories a day. I'm going to put my best foot forward towards making that 4500-5000 a day and see where it gets me. I don't take any supplements, per se, unless protein counts

I'm 25 these days. I think my chest strength is decent, but because of my chest size and long arms I have a huge ROM that seems to hinder me. I think I found my sticking point yesterday, though, so we shall see what I can do. And thanks!
Your chest strength is good, I wasn't knocking it, but in comparison, your back is really strong. And I know what you mean about long arms, my buddy is 6'4" and I think they hinder his benching too.

Only supps are protein shakes? You must eat a ton!

Workhorse

Saturday Fever
11-05-2002, 12:34 PM
On a good day I eat a lot. On bad days I don't eat much until dinner and afterwards. I just get lazy I guess. I agree my back strength is much better. I think taller guys with longer arms are better suited to deadlift. I would like to see my deadlift get into the 500s at some point next year, though.

eclips1
11-05-2002, 01:24 PM
What is a board press?

Saturday Fever
11-05-2002, 01:30 PM
3 Board Press, as I did, is three 2x4's screwed together. You set the board(s) down your chest like a stripe and you bring the bar down to the boards, pause ever so slightly, and explode the press back up from the boards. It's basically a way to limit your ROM to workout specific ranges of motion in a lift. Think back to when you did "21's" for your biceps.

You can also do 2 Board, 4 Board, or 5 Board presses. Anything more than 5 and you'd have no ROM at all generally.

***edit: Screwed together in a stack. A 2x4 is actually 1.5x3.5 so 3 boards would stand 4.5" high off the chest.

eclips1
11-05-2002, 02:17 PM
Thanks

MonStar
11-05-2002, 06:15 PM
Good luck getting to 240 lbs. SF. Damn youre going to be thick as hell at 240 lbs. I doubt youll get fat with your type of frame it seems like it would take a TON to get you fat.

Saturday Fever
11-05-2002, 06:17 PM
Just guessing wildly, I think at 240 I'd be carrying about 15% body fat.

MonStar
11-06-2002, 06:09 AM
Thats not horrible by any means SF. 240 lbs. @ 15% bodyfat comes out to what, something close to 35 lbs. of fat or something like that? 205 lbs. of LBM is friggin' big as f*ck. I am probably around 13-15% right now I think at 206 lbs. this morning. So you would be huge at 240. Good luck getting there man. Maybe make small goals like 5-8 lbs. every month or something.

Saturday Fever
11-06-2002, 11:07 AM
I've got Power Lower today. I am absolutely determined to get 300 on squats. I really want to do Good AMs instead just as a general builder, but I have to hit 300 before the end of the year.

MonStar
11-06-2002, 11:21 PM
Yeah SF you should hit 300 on squats before long. I dont see why you havnt hit it yet. Good luck getting it man. I am shooting for 455 x 2 sometime in the next few months. I am not sure yet when.

Saturday Fever
11-07-2002, 11:48 AM
Power Lower Body

Deadlifts: 3x135 1x185 1x225 1x275 1x325 1x355 0x365
Hyperextensions: 5x+25 5x+25 5x+25 5x+25 5x+45
Seated V-Bar Rows: 10x150 10x150

And that's it. New PR on deads, I was thrilled. I tried 365 twice and failed both tries to even get the weight off the floor. However, I did feel my hamstrings ignite and that gave me a good idea what's been holding my squats back. I think I've got 300 on my next power day. On a side note, I don't feel any traces of pain and suffering from my Power Upper day, so I'll return for Speed/Hypertrophy on Sunday. My lower body feels pretty good, so I may get my next leg day in before then. That seems awfully strange to me.

TMan
11-07-2002, 12:35 PM
Good job on pulling the 355! It won't be long and you'll be doing 405.

Saturday Fever
11-07-2002, 12:40 PM
I'm going to have to get my training partner to take pictures of that. It'll be a good day in my world.

MonStar
11-07-2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Deadlifts: 1x355

Awesome work here SF!! :thumbup::thumbup:

Congrats on the new PB, good job man. Good luck getting to your goal of 375 soon. Thats a hell of a lotta weight to move around.

Saturday Fever
11-07-2002, 11:47 PM
I've been reading so much Supetraining lately my brain feels blown away. I may be doing some tweaking to my hypertrophy-type work in the next few weeks as far as reps and general ideas based on some of my reading.

I am completely thrilled with the two-factor model of training so far. Granted I haven't gotten back to the gym to test supercompensation (which ironically is the one-factor model of training) and see if I'm choosing days off correctly, but I have a good feeling about things.

***edit: Thanks to everyone for the compliments on recent lifting, since I've failed to be appreciative lately. I'm working hard and it's nice to know there's support out there.

MonStar
11-09-2002, 07:40 AM
SF:

I am going back to what I used to do with heavy/light bodyparts. For example tomorrow Ill go heavy back / light biceps. What do you think of this SF?

Saturday Fever
11-09-2002, 11:50 AM
I like the idea as much now as I did then. The only thing I would suggest is to do more sets of low reps than high reps. For example, I would do 6-8 sets of your heavy low-rep sets, and 2-4 sets of light high-rep exercises. Other than that, I think the structure of the routine is really good.

MonStar
11-09-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I like the idea as much now as I did then. The only thing I would suggest is to do more sets of low reps than high reps. For example, I would do 6-8 sets of your heavy low-rep sets, and 2-4 sets of light high-rep exercises. Other than that, I think the structure of the routine is really good.

Okay thanks for the tip SF---appreciate it man. Ill defintely take that into consideration, without a doubt.

Yeah I dont know I kind of miss flat BB presses a bit, I mean because theyre the CLASSIC pressing exercise and all that, but I dont know, they just hit my f*cking front delts too damn much.

I am thinking maybe hitting up flat BB presses on my heavy chest day and then declines on my light chest day, well see what happens. What do you think of that?

Saturday Fever
11-09-2002, 02:19 PM
I think that would work out alright. Try not to reach failure on decline, and you could probly get your bench to advance again.

MonStar
11-09-2002, 02:22 PM
Of course SF---thats how all my light bodyparts are going to be. I dont know man I am thinking a lot about incorporating a heavy/light routine where the heavy days are more compound HEAVY movements---like for example chest would be flat BB presses, flat DB presses, and maybe some heavy flat DB flyes. And thats it. Maybe all in the 2-5 rep range. And then for light it would be decline BB presses, flat DB flyes, and cable crossovers. In the 6-15 rep range. Shy of failure of course.

Saturday Fever
11-09-2002, 02:33 PM
I'm only holding back on offering up a new routine because you haven't asked, and the peanut gallery would probably go crazy. But you're tempting me to serve up something to the board in general.

MonStar
11-09-2002, 02:43 PM
LOL---yeah thats the truth. I dont want to drastically change my routine, I really like the way that it is. But I am trying to really gear it towards strength/size. And heavy/light seems like a good way to approach those goals. Heavy taking care of the strength part of it, and light taking care of the hypertrophy. Because as we know failure is far from necessary when training for hypertrophy.

Saturday Fever
11-09-2002, 03:16 PM
Hypertrophy isn't that easy to sum up, though. Much to my dismay, and shattering to my belief system, TUT is not a very determinant factor in hypertrophy per se. I've been reading a lot of texts about hypertrophy as I want to put on new muscle so I can gain strength more rapidly. I also need a bigger waist to serve as a base for squats and deadlifts, but that's just a benefit of being bigger.

I think I might write an article or just start a new thread in Training about hypertrophy. It will severely overcomplicate things, but it will give a solid, researched base as to what causes it and what doesn't.

MonStar
11-09-2002, 03:31 PM
Wow, interesting. Whatever causes it we need to figure it out because my measurements havnt changed in a WHILE.

MonStar
11-10-2002, 04:52 PM
I was wondering SF how have your lats progress hypertrophy wise? Because it seems that youre not doing a chinning movement at all or anything of the sort. All it seems that youre doing is a few sets of a rowing movement shy of failure.

Have your lats grown at all from deadlifts do you think? Just curious. Because some guys claims that their backs gained size all over after adding deadlifts to their routine.

MonStar
11-10-2002, 04:52 PM
I was wondering SF how have your lats progress hypertrophy wise? Because it seems that youre not doing a chinning movement at all or anything of the sort. All it seems that youre doing is a few sets of a rowing movement shy of failure.

Have your lats grown at all from deadlifts do you think? Just curious. Because some guys claims that their backs gained size all over after adding deadlifts to their routine.

Saturday Fever
11-10-2002, 05:06 PM
I don't have lats. I do the rows because they're on the same plane as bench, and I use them as an aid to bench and a stabilizer for deads. Aside from my traps, though, I don't think deads have done anything for my size.

I've never had lats, so to speak, so for me to drop chins was easy. perhaps if I had an impressive spread I'd keep some chins in the routine.

MonStar
11-10-2002, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I don't have lats. I do the rows because they're on the same plane as bench, and I use them as an aid to bench and a stabilizer for deads. Aside from my traps, though, I don't think deads have done anything for my size.

I've never had lats, so to speak, so for me to drop chins was easy. perhaps if I had an impressive spread I'd keep some chins in the routine.

Oh okay SF I understand. I guess that makes the most sense I dont know. I would think that if your lats had been a lagging bodypart you would want to put more emphasis on them. But I guess your main concerns are your bench/squat/deadlift huh?

Funny you say that about deads not doing anything for lat size because with rack deads for some reason I feel it mostly in my mid-back area, next to that my traps, and then probably my lower back and grip. Mid-back lat area though is where I feel rack deads the most. Strange huh?

Saturday Fever
11-11-2002, 12:23 PM
Speed/Hypertrophy Upper Body

Speed Bench: 8x3x115
Flat DB Flies: 8x30 8x30 8x30
Pushups: 30 15
Side Lateral Raises: 10x10 10x10 10x10
Bentover Side Laterals: 10x20 10x20 10x20
EZ Curls: 10x65 8x65

I took everything slow yesterday. Not because I still buy into TUT, but because I wanted to feel the lift out and make sure I was contracting where I should be. I was amazed and sad that I couldn't finish the second set of pushups. I've done over 100 pushups like it was nothing in recent history, but I had a hell of a time squeezing out the second set. Oh well, I needed some light triceps work, and they provided it. Today I feel pretty solid, so my rest before Power Upper Body will be 3 days, aka I'll be in on Thursday. Today is off and tomorrow is Speed/Hypertrophy Lower Body.

MonStar
11-11-2002, 03:12 PM
Nice speed/hypertrophy session SF---looks good man. Strength on the speed bench is looking good. And the hypertrophy work also looks good. VERY similar to what I am doing. 3x8-10 reps shy of failure. ;);)

Saturday Fever
11-11-2002, 03:15 PM
Very shy of failure. I left the gym feeling just as beat as usual, but I moved significantly less weight. But I've been preaching for a couple weeks that heavy has nothing to do with big, so I guess I better put my money where my mouth is and show people that I'm right. :)

MonStar
11-11-2002, 03:18 PM
Haha yeah man I would think you would have to do that. Simply because progression is pretty much the key to hypertrophy if you ask anyone. I am not sure where the hell I stand but I do feel like non-failure sets work well so far. Well see what happens though.

Saturday Fever
11-11-2002, 03:26 PM
You don't have to fail at all.

I really want Hulk to get back to me about writing an article on hypertrophy. I have so much I could write that honestly will shatter a lot of people's beliefs, and I'll have a good collection of sources to cite to support my article, so it should be a great eye-opener for folks interested solely in bodybuilding.

But yeah, there's no need to fail, and I'm going to prove it in the near future.

***edit: As far as progression. I would say progression with regards to hypertrophy is important only in that the minimal threshold will increase and you'll have to lift heavier to accomodate this.

Joe Black
11-11-2002, 05:04 PM
Hey :)

I did get the email but I was unaware who it was from. Why did you not send me a pm!

check your pm

Saturday Fever
11-12-2002, 12:34 PM
Spent yesterday working on GPP, and got in some basketball. First time I've played ball in over a month and damn my game was rusty. Luckily I played with 3 of the better guys at the gym, so they carried me. Today is Speed/Hypertrophy Lower Body.

MonStar
11-12-2002, 07:58 PM
I was looking over your routine SF and I was thinking about it. How often are you ending up training? I see that you have a power upper body and then a power lower body and then a speed/hypertrophy upper and lower body session. You said that youre not going to use a set schedule for this routine but how often do you end up training, frequency wise?

Saturday Fever
11-13-2002, 12:18 AM
It can vary greatly, and the days don't necessarily have to be in order. I'm using Zatsiorsky's Fitness-Fatigue Model of Training. It says that, basically, every workout is followed by a period of days with "negative traces." These traces can be DOMS, general weakness in the area, and other factors such as hormonal and chemical things that honestly I wouldn't be aware of. As I said before, I also take days where I eat uncontrollably to be my body's way of telling me it's recovering still.

At any rate, if I workout on Sunday (upper body) and I'm sore and weak on Monday and Tuesday, but feel fine on Wednesday, then I count 2 Fatigue days. Zatsiorsky's idea states that you multiply Fatigue days by 3 before returning to work the same muscle group. So I would not do upper body again until Saturday.

If I was not sore, didn't feel weak, and didn't get the starving sensation, I would count 1 Fatigue day (Monday) and return for upper body work on Wednesday.

The tricky part here is that I may show negative traces from an upper body day for 2 or 3 days (6 or 9 days before the next upper body day) but perhaps my lower body was scheduled for Monday and I had only 1 Fatigue day afterwards. I'd be returning for my next lower body day BEFORE my next upper body day.

I hope this makes sense. In a nutshell, for every day I'm depleted, I take 3 times that number in days of rest.

WillKuenzel
11-13-2002, 12:27 AM
What determines the speed days from the power days or do you just alternate? Sorry if you posted this earlier, I just couldn't find it.

I was also under the impression that building hypertrophy isn't quite the same thing as building strength. Granted they kind of walk hand in hand but are still different enough to warrant different training methods.

I'm pretty open minded so any readings or sources you'd like to share I'd love to read.

Saturday Fever
11-13-2002, 12:45 AM
Strength and hypertrophy are definitely attained through different training practices. But it is a fact that strength cannot continue to increase without hypertrophy. On my power days I go heavy, and I pound the muscles that directly affect the big 3 lifts. On my Power Upper day, I bench heavy and destroy my triceps (12 sets of triceps after bench) and on Power Lower day I will go heavy on squats/deads/good am's and will follow that up by slamming my hamstrings/glutes/lower back.

On my hypertrophy days I do speed work to compliment the power days. The rest of the work is done with small weights, but taking time to make sure the muscles are worked correctly. I can tear through a set of chins like it's nothing, but from a hypertrophy standpoint is is much better to use less extra weight and focus on using my lats to pull.

I alternate days. If I do power one day, the next day is speed/hypertrophy. My routine is still centered around bench/squats/deads but I added some better researched hypertrophy work for reasons stated above.

All of my "education" comes from Supertraining by Dr. Mel Siff.

WillKuenzel
11-13-2002, 01:06 AM
12 sets of triceps after benchyikes, i imagined they are destroyed after that

Do you alternate days say, power upper then power lower, followed by speed upper then speed lower. I read above where your upper workout may come again before your lower workout in that case I would assume you go from power to speed but if you do power upper and lower is next is it normally power or speed?

Saturday Fever
11-13-2002, 11:31 AM
If the split worked out with everything equal, it would look like this...

Power Upper
Power Lower
Speed Upper
Speed Lower

MonStar
11-13-2002, 12:11 PM
Routine looks good SF. Hope you stick to this a long time so maybe you can bring a new wave to WBB. That hypertrophy can occur with light weights, shy of failure. ;);)

Saturday Fever
11-13-2002, 05:11 PM
Light is actually pretty relative. As hypertrophy increases, thus increasing the capacity for strength, "light" becomes more. And that's progression. Not that every week I lift heavier dumbbells, or get a few extra reps. In the grand scheme of things, that's all bull****. Hypertrophy and strength gains don't occur every week, so why should increased poundages?

Saturday Fever
11-13-2002, 11:22 PM
Speed/Hypertrophy Lower Body

Squats: 3x135 3x185 1x205 1x225 0x275 1x275
Leg Extensions: 10x190 10x180
Hamstring Curls: 10x90 10x90
Seated V-Bar Rows: 6x150 6x170
Parallel-grip Chins: 9xbw 6xbw
Abs: 10 8

I was going to give up speed work for lower body, but 275 stuck in the hole. It wasn't really because I couldn't nail it, it's because I've discovered when the weight starts stacking up, I tend to subconsciously try to squat with my quads and not my hams and glutes. So I reracked the 275 and tried again and nailed it. But I noticed I'm very slow for 3 inches or so off the box, and then I fire to lockout, so maybe the speed work really is worth it.

MonStar
11-14-2002, 02:41 AM
Nice lower body hypertrophy workout SF. Really really nice job on the 275x1 on squats by the way. Must have been mentally tough because after I fail on a lift I dont think theres any way possible I could go back and hit it.

Saturday Fever
11-14-2002, 10:57 AM
It wasn't tough as much as it was annoying. I know I can do a lot more, but I also know I'm forgetting things when I squat and that's what's holding me back. Oh well. Power Upper Body today.

No "negative traces" today, so I'll be taking the standard 3 days until my next lower body workout.

MonStar
11-15-2002, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
No "negative traces" today, so I'll be taking the standard 3 days until my next lower body workout.

SF, I was wondering if you could please explain this to me again quickly. Because all I am following a bodypart grouping program and thats about it. For example I a doing push/pull/legs split. But no set rest days or set exercises.

How do you know when you can hit a musclegroup again?

Saturday Fever
11-15-2002, 10:54 AM
If I do squats on Sunday (or legs) and I'm sore on Monday and Tuesday (2) then I multiply those days by 3, and get 6 days of rest before my next squats (legs) or lower body. So I would go back for squats/legs/lower body on Saturday (the 6th day). If I'm only sore/whatever for 1 day or not at all, I multiply 1 day by 3 and would wait 3 days, or return on Wednesday.

It's all based on Siff and Zatsiorsky. If you don't rest enough, your progress stops and goes backwards. If you rest too long your progress stagnates.

Saturday Fever
11-15-2002, 10:59 AM
Power Upper Body

Decline Bench: 6x135 3x185 3x205 1x225 1x245
Skullcrushers: 10x75 9x75 4x85 8x75 10x55 6x45+doubled minis
Push Downs: 10x50 10x60 10x60
2Handed OH DB Extension: 10x35 10x35 10x35

Set a PR for me on decline with the 245. Tried 250 and just didn't have it. On the skulls we doubled the mini bands under each other's feet and that got insane. The concentric was cake, the eccentric was a total fight. Otherwise my assistance work was right on. I have faint weakness in my triceps today, hopefully it passes so I can get back in after 3 days.

MonStar
11-15-2002, 10:02 PM
If I do squats on Sunday (or legs) and I'm sore on Monday and Tuesday (2) then I multiply those days by 3, and get 6 days of rest before my next squats (legs) or lower body. So I would go back for squats/legs/lower body on Saturday (the 6th day). If I'm only sore/whatever for 1 day or not at all, I multiply 1 day by 3 and would wait 3 days, or return on Wednesday.

It's all based on Siff and Zatsiorsky. If you don't rest enough, your progress stops and goes backwards. If you rest too long your progress stagnates.

Maybe Ill consider something like this. Thanks SF. My lats have been sore for I dont know how long now. So it would obviously be a while before I trained them again. I trained them friggin' Wednesday, so Thursday and then Friday theyre still sore. And if theyre not sore tomorrow 2x3=6 so I would train them again what Tuesday I guess? Hell of a rest period, damn.


Decline Bench: 6x135 3x185 3x205 1x225 1x245

Awesome work here SF. :thumbup::thumbup:

EDIT: How has this way of recuperation worked out for you so far SF? Just wondering man. Is that straight from Supertraining? Days of DOMSx3 days? If it is in Supertraining can you give a reference as to the page #s etc. Wouldnt mind checking it out.

Saturday Fever
11-16-2002, 12:37 AM
It's not DOMS specifically. It's written as "negative traces". I have assumed that among other things, DOMS is probably part of that. As far as how it's working out, I think it's been great. I've hit PRs every workout since incorporating it, so I'm certainly endorsing it.

If you workout Wednesday and are sore/weak on Thursday and Friday, your rest period before your next back day would be Wednesday-Sunday, and you'd do back again on Monday. I'm sure I've mentioned this, but maybe not, but you dont actually rest 6 days, because you're returning on the 6th day.

Oh, and Supercompensation and Zatsiorsky's method are discussed on pages 87-89. The One-Factor Model of Training and Two-Factor Model of Training.

MonStar
11-16-2002, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
It's not DOMS specifically. It's written as "negative traces". I have assumed that among other things, DOMS is probably part of that. As far as how it's working out, I think it's been great. I've hit PRs every workout since incorporating it, so I'm certainly endorsing it.

If you workout Wednesday and are sore/weak on Thursday and Friday, your rest period before your next back day would be Wednesday-Sunday, and you'd do back again on Monday. I'm sure I've mentioned this, but maybe not, but you dont actually rest 6 days, because you're returning on the 6th day.

Oh, and Supercompensation and Zatsiorsky's method are discussed on pages 87-89. The One-Factor Model of Training and Two-Factor Model of Training.

Okay thanks SF. Ill have to keep this in mind when I am thinking about when to train my next bodypart. Thanks for informing me about this man, appreciate it. So the days of negative traces x 3. And then that # is how many rest days. For example I trained chest Friday, so if I am sore Saturday and Sunday, thats two days. So 2x3=6, so I would train chest again on Wednesday?

Saturday Fever
11-16-2002, 11:21 AM
Exactly.At first you might feel like you're not working out enough (my first week using this method I was only in the gym twice) but your body will start to recover faster and faster. Including today, I'll be in 4 times this week, and that's a much more comfortable number for me.

MonStar
11-16-2002, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Exactly.At first you might feel like you're not working out enough (my first week using this method I was only in the gym twice) but your body will start to recover faster and faster. Including today, I'll be in 4 times this week, and that's a much more comfortable number for me.

Okay thanks a lot SF. Yeah man it seems like a friggin' good way of recuperation. Obviously your recuperation is just as important as the workouts youre doing. I read the pages in Supertraining by the way, thanks. Interesting stuff. I couldnt tell exactly what it was implying in Supertraining though. Was it saying more than with this type of recuperation you will help impede your body's ability to plateau, or what?

Saturday Fever
11-17-2002, 11:32 AM
The overall moral was that if you workout too often, you get negative results. If you don't workout enough you will stagnate. If you take the right amount of time between workouts, you can continue to progress. Zatsiorsky simply studied and gave a "template" for how long optimal rest is.

Saturday Fever
11-17-2002, 11:37 AM
Power Lower Body

Deadlifts: 3x135 1x185 1x205 1x225 1x245 1x275 1x295 1x315 1x365
Hyperextensions: 5x+25 5x+25 5x+25 5x+25 5x+25
Hamstring Curls: 10x90 10x90
DB Rows: 6x50 6x50 6x50 6x50
Abs: 10 10 10

New PR on deads, so another good day. I won't be doing deads again for another couple months. Want to focus on squatting and Good AMs and such, and surely by the time I deadlift again I'll be at 405 or higher. All the other work was quality. I shot too low on rows, even for assistance work, but I suppose once won't kill me. Horribly enough, I'm not slated to workout again until Wednesday.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
The overall moral was that if you workout too often, you get negative results. If you don't workout enough you will stagnate. If you take the right amount of time between workouts, you can continue to progress. Zatsiorsky simply studied and gave a "template" for how long optimal rest is.

Okay SF thanks a lot man. Appreciate you bringing all of this to my attention. Really honestly makes perfect sense to me so I am going to give it a whirl. Its not structured really at all which is nice. And it takes advantage of the concept that some bodyparts recover much faster than others.


Deadlifts: 3x135 1x185 1x205 1x225 1x245 1x275 1x295 1x315 1x365

New PR on deads, so another good day. I won't be doing deads again for another couple months. Want to focus on squatting and Good AMs and such, and surely by the time I deadlift again I'll be at 405 or higher.

Looking good here on deadlifts SF---keep up the hard work man, seriously. Impressive as f*ck. Good luck getting your GM and squat strength up high, I am sure you wont have much of a problem doing that.

Saturday Fever
11-17-2002, 12:40 PM
Thanks, I appreciate it. I've decided to make deadlifts my priority for the rest of the year, and then next year to pickup the tempo on my squatting, and eventually focus on my bench. But I've vouched for, and strongly believe, that if you want a bigger deadlift, you don't train the deadlift. So perhaps here I can put my money where my mouth is.

I hope you find results with the rest period work that blow you away. I think it's an incredible system. Like I said, I've set a new PR everytime in the gym since using the idea.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Thanks, I appreciate it. I've decided to make deadlifts my priority for the rest of the year, and then next year to pickup the tempo on my squatting, and eventually focus on my bench. But I've vouched for, and strongly believe, that if you want a bigger deadlift, you don't train the deadlift. So perhaps here I can put my money where my mouth is.

I hope you find results with the rest period work that blow you away. I think it's an incredible system. Like I said, I've set a new PR everytime in the gym since using the idea.

It seems to be extremely thought out, etc. I mean it makes sense to be logic wise. And you have experimented with it a bit so I am glad that I have a bit of experience by my side too. I cant imagine why I wouldnt like it. I am thinking about how to incorporate rack deads SF---I am thinking maybe every other Pull session or something. And when I do rack deads dont do any lower back work on leg day (like GMs / squats), I dont know what do you think? I would just hate to overtrain my lower back and have my rack dead / squat / GM poundages drop.

Saturday Fever
11-17-2002, 12:49 PM
Maybe take an easier approach. When your Legs come up, ask yourself when you did rack pulls last. If it was 4-5 days ago, go ahead and do some squats or good am's. On your pull day, ask when your last leg day was, and if you did squats or not. See how that works out for you.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Maybe take an easier approach. When your Legs come up, ask yourself when you did rack pulls last. If it was 4-5 days ago, go ahead and do some squats or good am's. On your pull day, ask when your last leg day was, and if you did squats or not. See how that works out for you.

Wait I lost you there SF. I am thinking about something like this maybe, make it extremely easy. Because we both know that I dont deal well with structure, LOL sad as it is. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Maybe on my Pull day if I am experiencing ANY negative traces in my lower back at all, just do some shrugs instead of rack deads. And on my Legs day if I am experiencing any negative traces in my lower back, do leg presses and leg curls rather than squats or GMs.

Saturday Fever
11-17-2002, 12:57 PM
Yep. Go with what your body says that day. I wasn't supposed to do deads yesterday, but when I got there, I was just in the mood to deadlift. So I dropped my plans and deadlifted.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Yep. Go with what your body says that day. I wasn't supposed to do deads yesterday, but when I got there, I was just in the mood to deadlift. So I dropped my plans and deadlifted.

Very interesting sytem SF, again. Seems to be very solid though in the research behind it and especially in the real-world gym application. Listening to your body is obviously one of the best things that one can do. Takes experience though to get to know your body. I can always tell when I get to the gym whether I am struggling with an exercise or not. Last time I did squats my body was rejecting the exercise completely. Discomfort, terrible flexibility, hips cramping, etc.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 06:56 PM
.. When are you scheduled to train again SF?

Saturday Fever
11-19-2002, 10:30 PM
Lower body on Friday and Upper on Saturday. It sucks. I'm sitting here all day dying. But I promised myself to stick with this and see what I could do, and I'm going to stick with it.

Maybe I should make it a goal to workout hard but get my body in a position to recover in 2 days max. I don't know, I enjoy the system but I'm dying for gym time right now. :)

MonStar
11-19-2002, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Lower body on Friday and Upper on Saturday. It sucks. I'm sitting here all day dying. But I promised myself to stick with this and see what I could do, and I'm going to stick with it.

Maybe I should make it a goal to workout hard but get my body in a position to recover in 2 days max. I don't know, I enjoy the system but I'm dying for gym time right now. :)

LOL isnt that the f*ckin' truth! I am dying to get back in the gym on Thursday. I feel like I havnt worked out in forever. I trained last on Saturday but it feels like friggin' forever. Yeah man hang in there. If I can hang with it then you should definitely be able to SF. Seriously. I am the one whos horrible at sticking to things.

Lets stick it out together, seriously.

Saturday Fever
11-19-2002, 11:12 PM
We should have a race to see who's last to drop it. Maybe that will keep us on top of it. :)

MonStar
11-19-2002, 11:27 PM
Haha good idea SF---I am in, without a doubt. Whoever can stick to this friggin' way of recovering wins. It seems like a very very good program though. chris mason as we all know makes sure that each musclegroup is completely recuperated before he even thinks about training it again. I thinks thats exactly how you and I should be with the program. That should be our mindset... 'My body is not ready yet to get back in the gym.'

Anyway but yeah we should do that. And I am sure that while were both on it, well get damn good results.

The Calvinator
11-20-2002, 01:19 AM
why would you not wait until your muscle are fully recouperated?? (sorry if i am sounding dumb and missed something) if i train chest on moday, i am not going to do it wed, or thurs. i do each bodypart once a week. and i have gone up in weight every week so far in the past 10 weeks. i never spend more than an hour in the gym, unless it is really busy.

Saturday Fever
11-20-2002, 10:19 AM
I'm not sure I understand your question, unless you're just asking rhetorically. I never workout when I'm not recovered. I just use a more accurate system of recovery based on more than "once a week."

MonStar
11-22-2002, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I'm not sure I understand your question, unless you're just asking rhetorically. I never workout when I'm not recovered. I just use a more accurate system of recovery based on more than "once a week."

GREAT way of summing up Zatsiorsky's Model of Training SF, damn. Really summed it up perfectly. It is a way of recovering also based on your specific body rather than just a generalization---like once a week.

Saturday Fever
11-22-2002, 11:42 AM
Today is Hypertrophy Lower Body! Finally!

So I'm gonna load on 75% of 275 (206) and do 100 reps. I'm fairly sure it'll have to be spaced out over about 8 or 9 sets, but it's going to be awesome. I plan to be thrashed for a full week afterwards. That won't be awesome. :)

Saturday Fever
11-22-2002, 06:18 PM
Speed/Hypertrophy Lower Body

Squats: 10x205 6x205 8x205 4x205 5x205 1x205

I was supposed to spread 100 reps out over 5-12 sets. I think my legs and ass could have handled it, but I couldn't keep my back arched. By the last 2 sets I was lucky I didn't hurt myself. I tried lifting at 70% of my 1RM and was supposed to be lifting at closer to 50%. Oh well. It was a hell of a ride. Tomorrow we're applying the same idea to bench. I feel more confident I can hit the century mark on bench now that I realize I won't be using 70%.

MonStar
11-22-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Speed/Hypertrophy Lower Body

Squats: 10x205 6x205 8x205 4x205 5x205 1x205

Good work SF man, seriously. Not a bad job here at all. Thats a lotta friggin' reps with 205 lbs. Good work man, seriously. Have any goals in mind for Jan. 1, 2003 just yet?

Saturday Fever
11-23-2002, 03:01 PM
The only thing I'm focusing on any more than usual is my deadlift. I'd like to have that at or above 405 by the end of the year.

On the squats, my hams and glutes could handle it. I just couldn't keep a tight arch to my back, and rather than "fight through it" and potentially **** myself up, I decided to call it a day.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 12:57 AM
The only thing I'm focusing on any more than usual is my deadlift. I'd like to have that at or above 405 by the end of the year.

I am sure that youll be pulling that much by 2003 man, I dont see why you wouldnt. Especially with Zatsiorsky's Model of Training. I am telling you this system for recovery is top notch. Great stuff.

Saturday Fever
11-24-2002, 06:49 PM
I'm extremely thrilled with it. I'm not going to touch deadlifts again until the end of the year, and I expect to be past 405 by then. I'm going to give my hams and glutes severe work until then.

On a wholly unrelated note, I am down to 185 these days, but my body fat is hovering at 6%. I don't know how I want to take this, but it's pretty much a given I need to add mass.

chris mason
11-24-2002, 06:54 PM
You should absolutely start eating! You seem drawn to powerlifting, not bodybuilding, right? You are how tall, 6'1" or 6'2"? If you want raw power, you need to fill out that frame. Come, join me on the "fatty" side.

Saturday Fever
11-24-2002, 07:18 PM
Yeah, I'm 6'4. I've peaked and hovered around 205 for a while and that was a decent weight for me. Lately I've slacked real bad on the diet and rest side and today I was none too pleased to be in the 180s again.

Ok, you can be the master and I'll be the apprentice fatty. :)

DK
11-24-2002, 08:21 PM
Hey SF. I was reading the thread about DOMS, and you have some interesting ideas. I have a question. Say your hams and your lower back where sore from ME day four days later when you would be doing DE/Speed/Hypertrophy training. Would you do the speed work since it isn't heavy or would you wait the "negative traces" were completely gone.

Saturday Fever
11-25-2002, 12:21 AM
There is no schedule with the way I train. If I was beat up for 4 days after ME work, it would be 12 days until I did DE work. That sounds awful, I know. But there are just as many short breaks as there are long breaks, so in the end it evens out pretty well.

Saturday Fever
11-25-2002, 03:09 PM
A sidenote to keep myself up to date, 2 days of bad after Friday's Lower Body session. Do ME work on Thursday.

Saturday Fever
11-25-2002, 07:07 PM
Power Upper Body

2 Board Press: 6x135 3x135 2x185 0x225
Skullcrushers: 10x75 10x75
4" Rack Press: 10x135 5x185 4x185

Well, where to begin after a day as ****ed as this one. For starters, we took 2 days extra of rest (bad) and we didn't eat worth a **** on ANY of the rest days (bad). We lifted like garbage, I couldn't lift my own weight, I suck. **** today. I'll be back soon with the fury.

chris mason
11-25-2002, 07:11 PM
You must eat the HIT way! You eat until you cannot eat another bite, then you perform forced eating.


If you do this, you too can one day be a fatty:D !

Saturday Fever
11-25-2002, 07:17 PM
Today settled it for me. I'll not consume less than 6000 calories a day, even if it means forcing 4500 down 2 minutes before the 24-hour mark. And I'm limiting my candy bar intake to no more than 2 a day! I assure you that dropping candy won't stop me from joining the gang.

chris mason
11-25-2002, 07:22 PM
On a serious note, one way to make consuming all those calories more easy is to drink them. You can make some calorie/protein dense shakes by mixing whole milk, ice cream, and protein powder. Substitute a couple of shakes for meals. Eating that much food gets old real quick, especially if you are not consuming much fat.

beastin v6
11-25-2002, 07:29 PM
Ok, i missed something. Can you guys explain to me (in one post) exactly is that you guys are doing? Im a little lost.

Saturday Fever
11-25-2002, 07:52 PM
chris is in the process of adding pounds and he invited me to join his gang/club. And since I'm 6'4 and weigh a whole 180, I happily accepted. With little regard for fat gain (but certainly not wanting to be a tub) I'm going to pack on 60 pounds in as little time as possible.

And I have just the thing for your idea chris. It's an "ultimate whey gainer" powder that by itself in water is good for 660 calories. My body doesn't like dairy very much, but if I turned one of them into your protein/milk/ice cream deal, I should be OK, and it should be good for a ton of calories. I figure if I do 2-3 shakes in water, one "chris mason shake(tm)" and 3-4 large, partially force-fed meals, I could hit 6000+ easy. :cool:

(actually, by my count, that's 7280 calories a day if I eat 3 meals @ 1500)

beastin v6
11-25-2002, 08:24 PM
MY LORD. :omg:
I wish i were like you people. If i were to eat that many calories in one week ill gain 10lb of pure fat. Too bad i cant have fun eating like an animal. Im eating only 2000 calories and people tell me i look bigger (with cloths on and off) Im like how is that possible? oh well as long as i get bigger, i dont care.! keep it up

Saturday Fever
11-27-2002, 04:18 PM
I passed the NSCA-CPT exam. And I followed that up with being hired as a "part-time trainer" at the gym. Sort of neat. They don't schedule me to work, I have to build my own list of clients, but the pay is decent, it will be fun, and it's strictly on a "when I want to" basis. Word to me.

Silverback
11-27-2002, 04:41 PM
congrats on the exam, i havent posted here before but ive read some of your posts and they have interested me so i thought id shoot on down.

Incidently i have a Personal Trainer award, but mine is linked to my work, so im a bit of a freelance (part-time of course, to fit in uni)

Man those are some serious cals your chowing down, i wonder how ones metabolism can get so high?

must be many factors all contributing.

later m8

B-R

Saturday Fever
11-27-2002, 06:01 PM
Thanks Ron. I worked hard to earn it. It's not where I really want to end up in life, but the "work when I want" idea works well with my regular job, and is much more enjoyable.

I expect to gain some fat with the amount of calories I'm consuming, that's for sure. But I'm just a lean, medium-build person. In the past when I've done 5000+ calorie diets, I'll gain weight at a decent pace, but my bf% doesn't ever raise much. I may gain some fat, that's no problem, the goal is to reach 240 without being a tub, and having a general idea how my body handles things, I should be ok. I'll keep it posted here.

Miss Rezza
11-27-2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I passed the NSCA-CPT exam. And I followed that up with being hired as a "part-time trainer" at the gym. Sort of neat. Word to me.

Word to you SF!!!! :D

Congrats........ looks like things are runnin' along pretty smoothly for ya at the moment!! :)

And OMG, i cannot get over how many cals you get down each day, SHEESH!!!! :eek:

Saturday Fever
11-27-2002, 07:42 PM
Thank you. I was very pleased with myself.

And for the record, I've been in the 6200 calories per day range. :)

MonStar
11-28-2002, 07:45 AM
Good job eating that much SF. We have very different metabolisms obviously. If I consumed 6000+ calories on a daily basis I would have a huge beer gut and thats for sure. I mean I have no doubts that I would be fat as f*ck. Which is a shame.

Saturday Fever
11-28-2002, 12:39 PM
Well, we eat differently as well. If you ate the same things I was eating, you probably wouldn't have as much to worry about. But there is some fat gain associated with this diet, that's for sure.

MonStar
11-29-2002, 07:11 AM
Well, we eat differently as well. If you ate the same things I was eating, you probably wouldn't have as much to worry about. But there is some fat gain associated with this diet, that's for sure.

Yeah but dont let a little bit of fat stop you from getting to 240, SF. Thats where I have to be the same way. I mean I start to see a little bit of fat gain in my abs or love handles and immediately I am watching everything I eat. Kinda dumb. Wish me luck this morning with rack deads... going f*ckin' heavy baby. :D:D

Saturday Fever
11-29-2002, 03:12 PM
Speed/Hypertrophy Upper Body

Flat Bench: 11x115 11x115 11x115 11x115 10x115 10x115 7x115 9x115 9x115 8x115 3x115

I did the hundred-rep idea from Supertraining. Weight started out light, though I'm completely unaccustomed to doing bench for reps. First few sets I faded out by 11, then a few with 10, the rest of the sets were really done with willpower. I had to "speed" the bar off my chest and fight with my triceps and upper back to get reps. But in the end, it took me 11 sets to get 100 reps. That's good enough for now.

Silverback
11-29-2002, 03:15 PM
Never heard of that method before, well it will certainly shock the muscles!

I remember Arnold speaking about the 50 reps for pull-ups, but nothing else.

How are you feeling now? i bet your smoked.

B-R

Saturday Fever
11-29-2002, 03:23 PM
Absolutely BEAT. By the last 4 sets, the weight felt almost unmovable when I unracked it. It was nuts. My triceps now are fried, I'm expecting a long 3-4 days of fatigue after this.

Silverback
11-29-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Absolutely BEAT. By the last 4 sets, the weight felt almost unmovable when I unracked it. It was nuts. My triceps now are fried, I'm expecting a long 3-4 days of fatigue after this.

i bet, what kind of rest intervals did you adopt? what is the thinking behind the method? is it to help recruitment of all fibres? or the shocking principle that i mentioned earlier.

B-R

Saturday Fever
11-29-2002, 03:44 PM
Rest was 3 minutes or so between sets. I don't know what the general idea or benfits list is with this idea. I read it in Supertraining and decided it would be fun. :)

Silverback
11-29-2002, 04:20 PM
cheers, i didn't think of the fun side, thats a good idea. Ought to help with motivation, pyschological side too.

Keep it up.

B-R

MonStar
11-29-2002, 11:13 PM
SF:

Nice workout man, good job on the reps. I am wondering about this method of training is it supposed to be good for size/strength or what? Endurance?

MonStar
11-29-2002, 11:26 PM
SF:

What do you think about 4" rack lockouts for triceps development? They seem like they would be a good idea. Grip around shoulder-width I am assuming.

Saturday Fever
11-29-2002, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
SF:

Nice workout man, good job on the reps. I am wondering about this method of training is it supposed to be good for size/strength or what? Endurance?

It's something of a strength/endurance hybrid as best I can gather. It was listed among many types of training methods in Supertraining, but offered no ideas why. From my gatherings it is strength/endurance.

Saturday Fever
11-29-2002, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
SF:

What do you think about 4" rack lockouts for triceps development? They seem like they would be a good idea. Grip around shoulder-width I am assuming.

They're not much for tricep development because of the tiny ROM, but they're great for training lockout, which ironically, is all about triceps. I'm going to include them on my Power day for awhile to see if I can get the knack for them and if I like them at all. But for the advancement of triceps, I wouldn't bother with them.

MonStar
11-30-2002, 07:49 AM
Oh yeah okay SF, thanks. I knew that they would most likely be good for lockout on bench presses, but not much more. Thanks SF. Damn today is my 4th day of negative traces in my chest and triceps. Damn.

Saturday Fever
11-30-2002, 11:05 AM
I know you don't want to hear about it, but your slow recovery time is related to your diet. You get enough sleep, since I define enough sleep as 6 hours or more, but the diet is "iffy." I won't go into it because I realize you're young and doing what's fun, and I agree with that entirely, but that's surely why your fatigue is so long.

MonStar
12-01-2002, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I know you don't want to hear about it, but your slow recovery time is related to your diet. You get enough sleep, since I define enough sleep as 6 hours or more, but the diet is "iffy." I won't go into it because I realize you're young and doing what's fun, and I agree with that entirely, but that's surely why your fatigue is so long.

Yeah I am sure that it definitely has something to do with my diet. I dont know though because every bodypart except for chest and triceps recovers rather quickly. Not sure what the problem is with them. I am starting to think that DB pullovers on my Pull day are just exausting my pecs and triceps too. Because I feel it a little in my pecs. I dont know.

Saturday Fever
12-01-2002, 10:56 AM
Just a little space for myself to track progress.

When I first started in the first week of August, my maxes were:

Bench: 210
Squat: 225
Deadlift: 245

As of December 1, my maxes are:

Bench: 245
Squat: 275
Deadlift: 365

I think that's not so bad.

MonStar
12-01-2002, 10:00 PM
Awesome improvement SF! Especially on the deadlifts---an increase of more than 100 lbs. is friggin' insane. Keep up the hard work with Westside man. Looking good.

Saturday Fever
12-03-2002, 04:38 PM
Here's a semi-recent picture. I don't think I ever posted this one. The only thing about it that I'm pleased with is that on my right side you can see where my lat pokes out and tapers down to my waist. I've never noticed that on me before, so I was thrilled. Anyways, here's some eye-candy (or poison.)

Silverback
12-03-2002, 04:56 PM
Looking good SF!

The back has got some serious detail, (best ive seen in a while:)) It may not be that wide, yet, but you can see that you are well on the way.

Keep it up man

B-R

Saturday Fever
12-03-2002, 04:59 PM
Thanks Ron, I try real hard. :)

Silverback
12-03-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Thanks Ron, I try real hard. :)

no probs, its obvious that you put in the effort.

TMan
12-03-2002, 05:25 PM
Back looks really good. Nice maxes as well. Excellent progress on those DLs! I'm catching up to your Aug. maxes.

Saturday Fever
12-03-2002, 08:29 PM
Power Lower Body

Squats: 6x135 3x185 3x205 3x225 1x245
SLDL: 5x185 5x165 5x165 5x165 5x165
Seated V-bar Rows: 6x120 6x140 6x150 6x140

And that's all, went lighter for a Power day, but that's OK.

MonStar
12-03-2002, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Squats: 6x135 3x185 3x205 3x225 1x245
SLDL: 5x185 5x165 5x165 5x165 5x165
Seated V-bar Rows: 6x120 6x140 6x150 6x140

Nice work man. I dont understand whatsup with the cable rows though man on Power Lower Body day? Ya lost me man, sorry.

Saturday Fever
12-04-2002, 11:16 AM
Lats are a stabilizer. They assist both squats/deads and bench. But since my Power Upper day is already loaded with sets, it made more sense to do them on my Lower day. It should really be called Front and Back days, since that's the real distinction between my sessions.

Saturday Fever
12-04-2002, 07:10 PM
Power Upper Day

3 Board Press: 3x135 3x155 3x185 3x205 1x225
Tate Press: 10x75 8x85 7x85 8x75 8x75 8x75
Push Downs: 10x50 10x60 10x50
OH DB Extension: 10x20 8x20 7x20

I LOVE the Tate Press. Felt much much better than normal skulls. Most of the work was decent today, considering I worked out hungover and severely dehydrated. (got Belial?)

MonStar
12-04-2002, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
3 Board Press: 3x135 3x155 3x185 3x205 1x225
Tate Press: 10x75 8x85 7x85 8x75 8x75 8x75

Hey man what is the Tate press? Just curious. Awesome strength on the 3 board press man, impressive.

Saturday Fever
12-05-2002, 10:57 AM
The Tate Press is basically an elbows-out skullcrusher. Keeping your elbows out adds a bit of a pressing motion to the lift.

MonStar
12-05-2002, 11:05 AM
Oh okay thanks SF. Sounds like a good movement for developing triceps strength.

Saturday Fever
12-05-2002, 11:10 AM
I liked it a lot better than skulls, it seemed to put less stress on my elbow. I'll be including it in my power days from now on.

Saturday Fever
12-06-2002, 03:44 PM
So Hypertrophy Upper Body day is approaching, and I came up with some wholesome goodness for the routine. It involves a few little widgets I've been pondering using lately. At any rate, I think it's going to look like this, as opposed to the vanilla routine in this thread's original post.

DB Bench: Take one weight and do a set of 1, and add one rep to each of the following sets until a set reaches failure. Take 10 second rest intervals between sets.

Tate Press:3 sets of 10 using CAT. Basically, accelerate through the concentric as fast as possible, and do the eccentric 5x as long as the concentric takes. So if I blast through the concentric in 1 second, do a 5 second negative, and repeat.

The rest of the work will be basic stuff. About 6 sets of shoulder work, not to failure, using heavy sets first and maybe supersetting similar motions. And then I'm going home.

TMan
12-06-2002, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever

DB Bench: Take one weight and do a set of 1, and add one rep to each of the following sets until a set reaches failure. Take 10 second rest intervals between sets.

Tate Press:3 sets of 10 using CAT. Basically, accelerate through the concentric as fast as possible, and do the eccentric 5x as long as the concentric takes. So if I blast through the concentric in 1 second, do a 5 second negative, and repeat.


The first one sounds like Pavel's Ladder routine. I've heard it does wonders for increasing reps for chins.

The second one reminds me of McCollough's CAT routines, although he does it a little bit differently.

Either way, it looks like good stuff!

Saturday Fever
12-06-2002, 04:09 PM
It may be Pavel. I ripped it from Supertraining. Just as I did with the CAT, though I didn't see any reference to those guys, so perhaps it isn't 'their' routine per se, but something they've adopted and passed on as theirs. I don't know, but the ideas sound solid, so I'll be the guinea pig.

MonStar
12-06-2002, 11:26 PM
Interesting way to do your sets SF, I like it. I would not be able to focus that much to do something like that. But it is definitely interesting man. Good workout by the way.

Saturday Fever
12-06-2002, 11:29 PM
Yeah, the hypertrophy work has never left me very sore or burned out anymore, so I decided to throw in lots of variety as far as reps, and really **** with the tempo and whatnot. I'm up almost 10 pounds since I've started eating like a pig, also, since I usually don't mention weight.

Silverback
12-07-2002, 05:47 AM
i like your style SF its unique and appears to be working for you, never heard of the tate press b4, might have to implement it at some point.

I feel that finding styles that suit you work wonders, because they are specifically tailored to your needs. a good example is GG he also has a unique routine that works wonders for him.

keep it up, and keep us updated.

MonStar
12-07-2002, 08:12 AM
Good work SF, up almost 10 lbs.! What was your starting weight and what are you now?

TMan
12-07-2002, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
It may be Pavel. I ripped it from Supertraining. Just as I did with the CAT, though I didn't see any reference to those guys, so perhaps it isn't 'their' routine per se, but something they've adopted and passed on as theirs. I don't know, but the ideas sound solid, so I'll be the guinea pig.

No, I doubt either one of them 'invented' the routines I just wanted to point them out in case you wanted to see how they implemented them. McCollough is pretty big on CAT training and he is a big name in powerlifting (at least he is here in Texas).

Looking forward to seeing how this works for ya!

Saturday Fever
12-10-2002, 10:14 PM
Speed Lower Body

Speed Deadlifts: 1x245 (7 sets)
Hyperextensions: 8x+25 8x+25
Biangular Seated Row: 8x185 8x185 8x185

The Biangular machine was new so I had to try it. It actually rules cause you can start wide and pull in as well as back. Felt pretty solid on the lats. The speed on the deads was awesome for me. My speed on deads is usually good until I get to 315 then it slows a bit. But the 245 singles tore off the floor.

Maki Riddington
12-10-2002, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Speed Lower Body

Speed Deadlifts: 1x245 (7 sets)
Hyperextensions: 8x+25 8x+25
Biangular Seated Row: 8x185 8x185 8x185

The Biangular machine was new so I had to try it. It actually rules cause you can start wide and pull in as well as back. Felt pretty solid on the lats. The speed on the deads was awesome for me. My speed on deads is usually good until I get to 315 then it slows a bit. But the 245 singles tore off the floor.

*** I'm using the same weight except I'm doing doubles for the speed deads.

Not that you care or anything but I figured I should mention it just because.

Saturday Fever
12-10-2002, 10:24 PM
How do you feel your form is on the second rep? I'm very afraid of slipping up on form and we've got bad backs in my family.

Maki Riddington
12-10-2002, 10:33 PM
I've suffered from a soft tissue injury of some sort in my lumbar region so I've always been carfeul with deadlifts. However it seems after 4 years it is still alive and kicking.
Anyways, my form is excellent on my second rep, I find that I actually improve as I continue on.

MonStar
12-11-2002, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Speed Deadlifts: 1x245 (7 sets)
Hyperextensions: 8x+25 8x+25
Biangular Seated Row: 8x185 8x185 8x185

Overall workout looks excellent SF, seriously. Keep up the hard work man. Speed deadlifts are impressive. I wish I had a biangular rowing machine at my gym. Guys seem to rant and rave about it.

Saturday Fever
12-11-2002, 11:15 AM
The biangular machine was neat. I'll probably use it again. I have to consciously remind myself the speed work is for speed, not for weight. The 245 was really easy and the speed was great, but I'm tempted to go up to 275 or more next time. I need to resist the temptation and stay stubborn. I have Hypertrophy Upper today, looking forward to that.

Saturday Fever
12-11-2002, 07:04 PM
Hypertrophy Upper Body

DB Bench: 1x50 2x50 3x50 4x50 5x50 4x50 (failed)
Tate Press: 20 20 20 (using CAT see below)
Front Raise: 8x30 8x30 8x30
Curls: 20x65 10x65 4x65

Well, I suck with DBs. Actually, it took some posturing to realize that I had to keep my hands facing each other in order to keep my triceps as the primary movers. Once I did this, I still felt wiped from trying to use my pecs. Oh well, live and learn. I really liked the scheme, though. It would probably play out much better on a barbell, but that's alright. On the Tates I didn't count reps. Instead I counted the seconds it took to complete the concentric, then multiplied that by 5 and used that number to count down the eccentric. Pretty nuts. The weight never felt heavy going up, but it sure as hell felt heavy coming down. I don't even know why I did biceps work, but I was bored and killing time so I could avoid abs. :)

MonStar
12-12-2002, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Hypertrophy Upper Body

DB Bench: 1x50 2x50 3x50 4x50 5x50 4x50 (failed)
Tate Press: 20 20 20 (using CAT see below)
Front Raise: 8x30 8x30 8x30
Curls: 20x65 10x65 4x65

Nice workout SF! Hypertrophy session looks excellent man. DB presses look great, and the CAT with the Tate presses look intense as hell. Nice overall workout.

Saturday Fever
12-13-2002, 03:15 PM
So today is going to be a Power Lower Day. I can't decide between Squats and Good AMs. I really want to hit a 300 squat, but I haven't done Good AMs in ages. I also need some new and superior ways to work my glutes and hams in an assistance manner. (hint: I want a GHR and Reverse Hyper machine)

Also, I have begun looking into buying a dungeon of my own and stocking it with great gear. I'm also pondering making this dungeon a "club" where other folks not interested in looking pretty can come and workout with folks of similar strength, etc. Almost like Westside Barbell, but I doubt any of us will be pushing 600 off of our chests for a long time.

Saturday Fever
12-14-2002, 08:50 PM
Power Lower Day

Squats: 3x135 3x185 3x225 1x275 1x295 1x300
SLDL: 5x155 5x155 5x155 5x155 5x155
Hamstring Curls: 8x100 8x100 8x100
Biangular Row: 6x185 6x200 6x205 6x210

New PR on Squats by 25 pounds and FINALLY I hit 300. I flew through it, so I may have been able to do more but I was happy so 300 was enough. This was actually last night but I've been busy and exhausted and couldn't post sooner.

MonStar
12-15-2002, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Power Lower Day

Squats: 3x135 3x185 3x225 1x275 1x295 1x300
SLDL: 5x155 5x155 5x155 5x155 5x155
Hamstring Curls: 8x100 8x100 8x100
Biangular Row: 6x185 6x200 6x205 6x210

Awesome work SF!! Impressive as hell man, good to see that you hit 300 on squats. Whats your next goal going to be? 3 plates on each side or what? Again man, tremendous job. Keep up the hard work. Good to see this program working out well for you.

Saturday Fever
12-15-2002, 05:29 PM
Well, I have decided my problem on squats has been bar speed. I was going down too slow. Partially because I wanted to 'feel' for the box, and partially because the weight seems overbearing sometimes. On the 295 rep I BARELY got off the box. When I hit 300, I let myself descend quickly, tapped the box, and exploded upwards with no troubles. Given the similarity between squats and deads, I should be squatting much more, and I think (again) that I may have finally uncovered how to do that. I don't think I'm going to set goals anymore. Instead I'd rather say that my 'goals' will be to continue setting PRs. Whether it's 5lb in 2 months or 25lb in 3 weeks, that's the only goal I'm going to set for myself.

MonStar
12-16-2002, 07:26 AM
Okay SF, good luck getting your squat poundages way up. Looking forward to you hitting 365x1 somewhere in the near future. Maybe sometime in February/March or something along those lines.

Saturday Fever
12-16-2002, 11:29 AM
A 365 squat would be awesome. :) I'd like to add another 50 pounds to my 3 lifts to total 1000 sometime soon, maybe I can do it on squats. :)

Saturday Fever
12-19-2002, 12:12 PM
Power Uppr Day

Decline Bench: 3x135 3x155 3x185 3x205 0x245 0x235
Tate Press: 8x30 8x30
Skullcrushers: 10x75 10x75
Pushdowns: 10x50 10x50
4" Lockouts: 10x185 10x225 4x295

I have decided I have a mental block around 225 with regards to benching. No matter what the apparatus, I seem to be sticky at 225, not counting the one time I hit 245. Off my chest I hit 225, off 3 boards I hit 225, on decline I hit 225. I'e decided that next Power session, I'm going to blindfold myself when I get onto the bench and my training partner will load the bar for me as he feels fit. This way I won't know if it's 225 or 227 or 215 or what. This will be weird as hell, but I have to get past the block in my head. The rest of the work was 'eh.'

Saturday Fever
12-19-2002, 06:58 PM
Speed Lower got set back until tomorrow. :(

MonStar
12-19-2002, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Power Uppr Day

Decline Bench: 3x135 3x155 3x185 3x205 0x245 0x235
Tate Press: 8x30 8x30
Skullcrushers: 10x75 10x75
Pushdowns: 10x50 10x50
4" Lockouts: 10x185 10x225 4x295

Wow, nice workout SF! Impressive man. I hate misses I dont know how the hell you can stand them. Sucks that you missed 245 and then missed 235. Youll get it next time SF, dont worry about it man. Lockouts look EXCELLENT man. Impressive as hell. 4 reps with 295 is great man. I am wondering 4" lockouts means 4" off of your chest correct?


I have decided I have a mental block around 225 with regards to benching. No matter what the apparatus, I seem to be sticky at 225, not counting the one time I hit 245. Off my chest I hit 225, off 3 boards I hit 225, on decline I hit 225. I'e decided that next Power session, I'm going to blindfold myself when I get onto the bench and my training partner will load the bar for me as he feels fit. This way I won't know if it's 225 or 227 or 215 or what. This will be weird as hell, but I have to get past the block in my head. The rest of the work was 'eh.'

Wow, curious to see what kinda results you get with this training idea. Good luck with it.

Saturday Fever
12-20-2002, 11:02 AM
Not 4" off my chest, the last 4" of the ROM at the top. Yeah I'm sure the blindfolded benching will be insane, but something has to be done for my bench. And since I can't "sneak" 2.5 plates on the bar without knowing, I have to try something else. So I'll go blind and my training partner can just randomly put weight on and I'll work that way. It will be interesting to say the least.

MonStar
12-20-2002, 11:14 AM
Oh okay SF, that makes more sense actually. 4" ROM. I was wondering because I couldnt tell at all when people would say 4-6" lockouts, etc. I am curious how much weight I could throw around with 4" lockouts. I dont know, well see what happens I guess.

Saturday Fever
12-20-2002, 11:16 AM
Well, from my own experiences, and seeing what others have done, I'd say the average person will see another 70-80 pounds with only a 4" ROM. It will absolutely slaughter your triceps.

MonStar
12-20-2002, 11:19 AM
Oh okay SF, thanks man. I would love to toss around 365 or so as my ME lift with 4" lockouts. That would be friggin' awesome. Damn.

Saturday Fever
12-20-2002, 11:24 AM
ToysRUsKid raw benched 390 off his chest during that session. We won't even discuss what he did in the lockouts. :(

MonStar
12-20-2002, 11:26 AM
390 full ROM? Damn! Thats friggin' crazy. Shame the guy doesnt keep a journal here at WBB. I see his posts every now and again. Cant imagine benching 390, sh*t. Impressive man, thats gotta be motivation for you!

Saturday Fever
12-20-2002, 11:32 AM
We laughed about it. His 1RM on squats and deads is 405 and on bench it's 390. We wondered how someone could have triceps as strong as their legs. But he hit 405 on squats and deads the first time he ever did them, so I imagine those numbers will skyrocket in the future. I'm pretty close to him on a lot of lifts, but on bench he's got me killed. Since starting Westside he's gone from 275 to 390 off his chest since the end-middle of August. That's partly why I pushed Westside at you, you have a great base like he did to just explode.

MonStar
12-20-2002, 11:34 PM
Yeah I am really really interested to see what kinda results I get with Westside man! Great to hear about your results and his and other guys. Really nice to hear, going for DE Bench tomorrow morning so well see what happens.

Saturday Fever
12-20-2002, 11:57 PM
Speed Lower Day

Speed Squats: 8x2x155
Hyperextensions: 10xminis 10xminis
Biangular Row: 10x200 10x200

Speed was great on the squats, I think I've turned a corner with them. The rest of the day was unmotivated as I was slightly hungover. I've decided that after New Years Eve I'm going on an alcohol strike. It's messing with my diet and workouts, so I need a break for a bit.

MonStar
12-21-2002, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Speed Lower Day

Speed Squats: 8x2x155
Hyperextensions: 10xminis 10xminis
Biangular Row: 10x200 10x200

Awesome work here today SF! Keep up the hard work man, seriously.

Good job on the speed squats.

Saturday Fever
12-22-2002, 06:09 PM
Hypertrophy Upper Day

DB Bench: 8x35 8x45 8x50 5x55 3x60
6" Lockouts: 8x135 8x185 6x225 3x255
Side Lateral Raise: 8x15 8x15 8x15
Uprights: 10x50 10x60
Biangular OH Press: 10x100 5x125

The DB Bench was done on top of a swiss ball. Talk about awkward. Everything else was much easier than expected. I had to try to Biangular OH Press just because it was new. What a riot. I am a happy camper but I'm beyond tired.

MonStar
12-23-2002, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
DB Bench: 8x35 8x45 8x50 5x55 3x60
6" Lockouts: 8x135 8x185 6x225 3x255
Side Lateral Raise: 8x15 8x15 8x15
Uprights: 10x50 10x60
Biangular OH Press: 10x100 5x125

The DB Bench was done on top of a swiss ball. Talk about awkward. Everything else was much easier than expected. I had to try to Biangular OH Press just because it was new. What a riot. I am a happy camper but I'm beyond tired.

Nice workout SF, looking good man. Swiss ball presses seem like they would be tough. I am going to have to try these lockouts man. They look like they will work extremely well for triceps power/strength, but well see what happens.

Saturday Fever
12-23-2002, 11:00 AM
I lost 40lbs between 4" and 6" lockouts. That's crazy. But the workout felt good.

MonStar
12-23-2002, 11:15 AM
I am thinking Ill just do 4" and 8" lockouts. I think that 6" will be a bit to close to the others. I dont know well see what happens. Maybe make me ME Bench lifts---

4" Lockouts
8" Lockouts
Incline BB Presses
Decline BB Presses
CG Bench

Something along those lines. That look okay SF?

GeneticallyGifted
12-23-2002, 11:22 AM
Yo, SF what is this exercise exactly:


Biangular OH Press: 10x100 5x125

I have never heard of it...might have seen it but I don't know.

G

Saturday Fever
12-23-2002, 11:24 AM
I can't remember who makes it, but the grip starts in a standard place for an OH Press, but as you go up, it brings your hands closer together. I'll see if I can find an image to post.

Saturday Fever
12-24-2002, 11:04 PM
Power Lower Day (sorta)

Squats: 3x135 3x185 3x225 1x275 1x315
Glute Ham Raise Bastardization: 8x25 8x25 8x25

This was just to do some work squats before the holiday hit. I smashed my previous PR by 15lbs. I felt I had another 40lbs in me but my girlfriend was afraid to spot so I stayed satisfied with 315. Thursday it'll be full-on as we end the year with Deads, looking for a new PR of 420. Ever since ToysRUsKid told me to widen my stance another 6" in each direction, I've been climbing well on squats. I'd be thrilled to pull 1100 by the end of January.

MonStar
12-24-2002, 11:08 PM
Good workout SF, damn 1100 would be impressive as hell man. It seems that for me, and you too I think, your deadlift and squat will climb a bit more readily than your bench will. I have noticed that bench is a B*TCH to up your strength on.

Saturday Fever
12-24-2002, 11:10 PM
Yeah my bench is bothering me. I hit 245 once and have never even been close since. I said before I thought it was a mental block, and I believe that, but I've reread a ****load of articles on form and whatnot and I'm going to try some new things in the next month or so, looking to overcome the trouble. Really my bench is what's holding me back from a good total, I think. Though I'm proud with the 965 I have now, and am confident it would hold up in a real competition.

MonStar
12-24-2002, 11:31 PM
Yeah thats how I feel as well. I am thinking that Ill get my squat right around 425-435 once I get my depth perfect. And when it comes to deadlift I think I am right around 455-465 or somewhere in that range. For bench roughly 300, although I havnt gotten it yet. So tested I am right around a 1175 lbs. total. Not horrible I guess. Although I dont know what a good total is. I am thinking thats decent. I know that a guy at my gym just competed and got a 1300 lbs. total. He only weighs something like 165-170 lbs. too. So I know thats impressive as hell for him.

Saturday Fever
12-26-2002, 12:19 PM
There is a chart at elitefts.com in the articles section under "What is Elite?" that tells you where you total would place you for your weight class. I think I'm closing on Class IV but I haven't checked in a while.

Today is the last ME Sq/DL day of the year and I'm hoping to pull 420 on deads (got potheads anywhere?). I've also decided that I'm probably not going to include weights for some assistance work anymore. I'll note sets and reps but since I don't track what weight I use for certain lifts, I'm not going to report it anymore either.

Saturday Fever
12-26-2002, 06:07 PM
Power Lower Day (sorta again)

Deadlifts: 1x135 1x185 1x225 1x275 1x315 1x385
Good AMs: 5x115 5x115 5x115 5x115 5x115
Hamstring Curls: 3 sets of 8
DB Rows: 4 sets of 6

No excuses today for the d eads being bad, except maybe doing another Power day so soon. On 385 I lost the tightness in my back and damn near lost the bar, so I called it a day on the deads. Everything else was as to be expected. Rest on the Good AMs was about 20-30 seconds between sets.

MonStar
12-26-2002, 06:35 PM
Sucks about the deadlifts SF, I was really looking forward to seeing you pull 420 today. Damnit. Good job though, good luck next time man.

Saturday Fever
12-26-2002, 06:39 PM
Yeah, my back just wasn't having it today at all. Halfway up with 385 and I lost my tightness and the first thing to run through my head was "oh **** I'm gonna slip a disc." Luckily I'm OK, but I didn't wanna push it. No big. I'll come back after New Years and handle my business.

Down to 190 again, I don't know what the hell is going on with my weight.

MonStar
12-27-2002, 11:17 AM
Good luck after New Years SF. You should get 415-420 no problem if you ask me. Hey, when is the last time you tested your max on deadlift? I am thinking like I said maybe once every 5-6 weeks or so. Well see what happens.

Saturday Fever
12-27-2002, 01:17 PM
Anytime you see deads in my journal, I tested my max. Like I said a few weeks back, I'm going to shift emphasis after the 1st of the year to my squat (as far as Sq/DL days go) and almost neglect my deadlift. I figure this is going to be the best way to bump up my dead. My goal for 2003 is a "3-4-5."

3 plates on bench
4 plates on squats
5 plates on deads

MonStar
12-27-2002, 09:57 PM
Damn, impressive man. Sounds like a good way to train, with 3-4-5. Good luck with it SF. 3 plates on bench is impressive as hell. I hope to get 3 plates on bench, and 5 on deadlift maybe by March 1, or somewhere near there. At least by the end of the 1st quarter in 2003. So maybe by the end of March at the latest.

NateDogg
12-27-2002, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
3 plates on bench
4 plates on squats
5 plates on deads

I have no doubt that you will achieve these goals :thumbup:

Saturday Fever
12-28-2002, 06:02 PM
So I was reading up on my physiology and came out with some goodies that I either forgot or just didn't know. At any rate, I've included it here for reference:



...another confusing issue. Calories. Some think calories are something you remove or add to the diet. It's as if a calorie is an entity in and of itself. This is false.

A calorie is a unit of measurement. It's used to designate the body's energy requirements. The word calorie relates to "combustion" or, to produce energy. By definition, a calorie is: The amount of heat required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water 1 degree Celsius.

Generally speaking, proteins, fats and carbohydrates provide different rates of combustion. Fat is one of the most efficient, compact sources of energy in all the foods you eat. One gram of fat when burned in the body will yield 9 calories. Proteins and carbohydrates are not as efficient. The rate of combustion for both of these fuel sources is 4 calories per gram.

A Brief Overview of Metabolism
Your metabolism is the total amount of energy required by all your bodily functions for one day. It's imperative to understand that in order to make a positive change (whether fat loss or muscle gain), your body requires a certain metabolic (expenditure) and caloric (consumption) combination in order for that change to occur.

Two activities occur in the human body that contribute to energy expenditure. One activity is the fueling of the basal metabolism. The second is the fueling of its voluntary activites.

The basal metabolism supports your bodily functions that occur without conscious awareness. This includes the heartbeat, breathing, maintenance of body temperature and the sending of nerve and hormonal messages to direct these activites. They are the basal processes that maintain life.

The amount of energy required to maintain these functions is called the basal metabolic rate (BMR). The BMR is the minimum amount of calories needed to sustain the vital functions of the body during a relaxed, reclined and waking state. BMR is proportional to body size, lean mass and surface area of an individual. The BMR is surprisingly fast. A person whose total energy needs are 2000 calories a day, spends as many as 1200 to 1400 of them to support basal metabolism.


I just thought that was interesting. And thanks for the support on the goals guys. I appreciate it.

Saturday Fever
12-29-2002, 05:59 PM
Power Upper Day

Bench: 3x115 3x135 3x155 1x185 1x205 0x235 0x230 0x225
Incline DB Press: 3x65 7x45 8x45
6" Lockouts: 6x225 0x275 6x255 18x135
HS Press: 2 sets of 6

**** bench. That's all I have to say about that. Had to use DB's for the incline because I couldn't keep my elbows in with a barbell. And I was in a bad mood. And bench can lick the sweat off my nuts. That is all.

MonStar
12-30-2002, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Bench: 3x115 3x135 3x155 1x185 1x205 0x235 0x230 0x225

DAMN! What the f*ck happened here SF? I woulda been pissed off as hell if I couldnt get 275 (-20 from 1RM) for a single. Jeez. Must have been angry. Any thoughts as to why this ended up happening? Lack of sleep? High-stress levels?


6" Lockouts: 6x225 0x275 6x255 18x135

Good job here on the lockouts SF. Strength with 255 was really excellent.

Saturday Fever
12-30-2002, 10:57 AM
I think it's because sleep is screwy on the weekends. I do training starting at 7am on Saturday and 6:30am on Sunday. I'm used to sleeping until 9am everyday during the week, and I tend to not get to bed very early ever. So my training amigo showed up at the gym at 3pm, when I got done, and we proceeded to lift. So it must be sleep because I made a point to eat plenty throughout the day. All of the lifts felt weak, but I was only really mad at bench.

Saturday Fever
12-30-2002, 01:18 PM
So here's a call to anyone willing to take time to answer. My bench sticking point is EXACTLY where the bar would land if I was doing a 3 Board Press. And it's a helluva sticking point because I've put some nasty bar speed into the lift, but that spot is like a brick wall. So my question is, which method (if any of these choices) makes the most sense to get through that sticking point:

a) 2 Boards working on 3RM
b) 3 Boards and just deal with it
c) MORE speed work

And thanks in advance.

***edit: Oh, and in case it should ever come up, my usual grip is about an inch outside of the center smooth on the bar. This would probably be considered a real close grip to you guys, but it has always felt much stronger than going wide.

Paul Stagg
12-30-2002, 02:22 PM
I'd do:

2 and 3 board ME work

Floor presses

Work HARD on speed

Work your triceps.

Have you actually tried testing you rmax using a wider grip? I feel stronger with a closer grip, too, but my 1RM is higher with a wider grip.

fuzz
12-30-2002, 02:51 PM
Hit those tris...I've read that a lot of bench plateaus are due to triceps being the weak point.

Saturday Fever
12-30-2002, 04:15 PM
I hit my triceps plenty hard, I don't think they're the weak spot by any means, but I'll keep it in mind.

Paul, I don't know what I can do wide grip, I've never really tried it always feels so "weird."

Chris Rodgers
12-30-2002, 04:15 PM
If you are testing your true max with that close grip I think you can do better wide. Even if it seems awkward now, work with it. Get used to it. It is obviously easier to move a bar 10 inches than 15 inches, ya know?

I have heard from many people to work from just below a sticking point to overcome it. So, 2 boards sound about right. Add chains or bands to them if possible.

Saturday Fever
12-30-2002, 04:22 PM
I never even thought of adding bands. Chains won't work until my dungeon arrives but bands off 2 boards with a wide grip. Is there a rule for how wide you can go? I have much longer arms than you, I'm sure, given our height difference and you've said you bench with index on the ring. Is this as far out as allowed or is there no limit? And thanks.

Chris Rodgers
12-30-2002, 04:36 PM
I believe the max allowed is index on the rings. I use middle finger on rings when I shirt up. My heaviest raw pressing is with pinky on rings. I'd give it an honest shot. If it's too weird work your hands out slowly. Like an inch or two per week.

Adam
12-31-2002, 07:58 AM
I bench with the same grip SF and my sticking point is the same too. Do you want to be able to bench more in a meet or at the gym? Because if its at a meet keep working on your closegrip cause im guessing you'd shirt up for a meet but if its for the gym then just keep poundind the tri's and boardpresses

MonStar
12-31-2002, 08:00 AM
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Wednesday, 3-26-2003
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Diet/Supplements
Meal 1: peanut butter & banana sandwich, multi-vitamin/mineral, 25 mg. ephedrine hcl, 2 Xenadrine EFX
Meal 2: 1 Wendy's small frosty, 1 Wendy's cheeseburger
Meal 3: organic soda, macaroni & cheese
Meal 4: organic cookie, energy water
Preworkout: 1 banana, 25 mg. ephedrine hcl, 2 Xenadrine EFX
During Workout: 20 oz. Gatorade + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 1/2 tsp. salt
Postworkout: 1 serving whey protein, 1/2 serving Cell-Tech

Estimated Calories: ~3500

Training---Legs, Lower Back
Deadlifts:
135 x 8
225 x 6
315 x 4
405 x 2
500 x 2!
Comments: Some damn good sets of deadlifts today if you ask me. Really impressed with my strength. Going to be alternating these week to week with squats, so well see how that goes. Started off with 135 for 8, and 225 for 6. SMOKED. Easy as hell. 3 plates for 4 was easy too. Just going through the motions. 4 plates felt a little harder, nothing bad though. Lower back seemed a little stiff. Hit up 500 for a single, waited ~4-5 seconds, resetted, and hit a double. I might have been able to get a triple, because the 2nd rep of 500 was not all that slow. Saw friggin' stars after each rep with 500, lol.

Leg Presses:
20 Plates x 4!
18 Plates x 6
16 Plates x 8
Comments: Some HARD sets of leg presses today, really beat up my friggin' quads completely. Started off with 10 plates on each side for 4 reps. OW! Quads were torn up. Dropped down to 18 plates for 6, and finished up with 8 plates on each side for 8. At this point my quads were just on fire.

Good Mornings:
225 x 6!
185 x 8
Comments: Some damn good sets of good AMs here today. Really exhausted my lower back and hamstrings completey. 225 for 5 was my previous PB, so I am glad that I got an extra rep in there today. Dropped down to 185 for 8. OW! Both sets really beat me up.

Leg Extensions:
Stack x 8 (2)
Comments: Not too much to say here actually. The entire stack was around 250 or a little more I believe, something like that. Hit up 8 reps for 2 sets with the entire stack. Really torched my quads here too. Its been a WHILE since I have gotten a really good quad workout, damn.

Rope Cable Pull-throughs:
Stack x 8 (2)
Comments: Good way to finish up my workout today. Used the entire stack for 2 sets of 8. Really finished off my glutes and lower back and all that completely. Still love this exercise even if I am not doing Westside.

Miscellaneous
Training Length: 45 minutes
Sleep: 8 hours
Weight: 226 lbs. (gym) :eek::eek:
Comments: Training went pretty well today I think, not too long or short. Trying to stay right around 35-55 minutes for these bodybuilding style workouts. Not having my rest periods extremely long or extremely short. So well see what happens with that. Sleep was right on last night, right where it should always be. Weight was HIGH! Damnit, need to watch my f*ckin' calories. Sick of this bullsh*t.

Saturday Fever
12-31-2002, 07:10 PM
I agree with the wide grip. I will start adding some wide grip work into my sessions to get more familiar with it, but not at the cost of my usually tricep-based workout. My energy intake has also slipped lately and will only suffer over the New Years festivities. But I've promised myself a strike from alcohol starting at 7am on January 1st, at which time I plan to do the damn-near-impossible and add 60 pounds in 6 months naturally.

I also may look into a shirt next year for bench since technically they're ok at a meet, but I think I'll stick with raw totals. I don't know, but there's a 6 pack in the fridge calling my name already. See you guys next year!

fuzz
12-31-2002, 10:43 PM
Get drunk to point of sickness, like vomiting everywhere sickness...and you'll get a good start on that alcohol strike.

Saturday Fever
01-01-2003, 02:03 PM
No thanks fuzz, I've done that and it's horrible. :) I drank a "healthy" amount of margaritas, but I'm done with alcohol for a long while.

Saturday Fever
01-02-2003, 07:09 PM
The Mission

Well, after talking with the esteemed LATMAN I have found and decided to enter a semi-local Powerlifting Meet. This meet in particular is the Northern California Championships and takes place about an hour away on April 12-13. Everything in this journal from now until then will be geared to hitting 1000 total at that meet. Ok, I'm done.

Chris Rodgers
01-02-2003, 07:13 PM
Good decision. You will be hapy you made it. Now, everyday in the gym, picture yourself kicking ass at the meet and freakin push!

MonStar
01-02-2003, 10:45 PM
Awesome man, looking forward to seeing how you do in the meet SF. Hopefully youll do well---good luck getting a 1000 total.