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DK
11-10-2002, 04:22 PM
Hi everyone. I've been doing a 3 day push, pull, legs routine for about 10 weeks. I'm taking this week off to recover and to try to put together a new powerlifting routine. I'm hoping to go to a meet soon and want a routine that will get my 3 lifts up. I was doing my push, pull, legs routine with low reps to emphasize strength.

What types of powerlifting routines are out there? Can you guys give me some ideas? The only one I've heard of is Westside, and the WBB article kinda got my interested in that. Is Westside the only specific powerlifting routine? Or are there more?Can you guys give me some examples of different powerlifting routines. I'll probably have some more questions later, but thanks for responding.

I'm gonna max out this week sometime when I get time. After I max out I'll post my lifts on this thread.

Saturday Fever
11-10-2002, 04:59 PM
Westside is an excellent program and it will spark your interest big time as far as what's involved with lifting and your body and your nervous system and various other things you probably never thought of before. Check out www.elitefts.com and the articles over there for some good documentation on Westside. And good luck.

benchmonster
11-11-2002, 09:33 AM
Yes there are other methods out there, most of which fall into the progressive overload/western periodization method of training.

On those programs, and this is a bit oversimplified here, you basically do 10 weeks for example on each of the powerlifts doing 10 reps with 50 percent of your max for a few sets, then the next week, 8 reps with 55 percent, for 4 sets, then 6 reps with 60 percent, and so forth and so on, till right before the meet you are doing doubles with 95-100 percent of your previous max.

The early stages of this program are designed to pack on muscle, while the end stages are designed to increase maximal strength.

I would not recommend this type of program, tho many use it. It is much simpler and easier to set up than a westside program, but for me, and those lifters I train with, it is not nearly as effective as westside training.

Western periodization does not address, what is, IMO, one of the most important aspects of pushing/pulling more weight, and that is bar speed. No speed work in western periodization, and also, IMO, not enough work on accessory movements. I.E. to get a bigger bench, you are going to have to somehow get stronger in the triceps. I, personally cannot do that effectively by merely benching, and nothing else. I do a ton of direct tricep work, and a whole bunch of upper back work, and have become a pretty good bencher in the process (500 @220, last meet).

I have tried everything out there to get stronger and bigger, and for me, nothing has worked nearly so effectively as the Westside method, properly known as the Conjugate Method of training.

B.

TMan
11-11-2002, 10:01 AM
What about adding speed and more accessory work to a Western periodization routine? For example, pick a Coan type progression then simply add speed and accessory work to it. Sort of a hybrid routine between periodization and Westside.

Paul Stagg
11-11-2002, 12:00 PM
That might work for you.

DK
11-11-2002, 09:40 PM
I think I've made up my mind and will be using westside.
What do you guys think about this routine? Is this a good routine for a begginer to Westside.
Elite Routine (http://www.elitefts.com/documents/9week-training-program.htm)
I don't have any bands or chains, so I want something simpler.

Paul Stagg
11-12-2002, 09:38 AM
Perfect. It's fun.

DK
11-12-2002, 09:18 PM
Alright, here come my questions.

How much do you raise the weight from week to week on the Me day and the speed day?

How often do you switch exercises on ME day and on speed day?

How often do you max out?

When they say allmost all of your ME Bench exercises are done with a close grip, how close do they mean? Like close grip bench pressing or further apart?

What do they mean by `use three different grips on bench press`?

Can I replace replace Good Morning's with SLDL and Squats with barbell hack squats?

I think that will do it for now.

DK
11-12-2002, 09:21 PM
Also, there are a bunch of exerices I've never seen done, and they aren't on the extx website everyone uses. Is there a site where I could find explanations on how to do these lifts?:
Reverse Hypers, One Leg Squats, One arm Press, JM Press, Glute
Ham Raise, face pulls, Ball Press, Pin Press and Carpet Press.

Paul Stagg
11-13-2002, 10:03 AM
Alright, here come my questions.

** I'm ready!

How much do you raise the weight from week to week on the Me day and the speed day?

** ME - you increase it. Shoot for a new PR. There isn't a set rule... just do what you can. some days you might not be able to break a PR, but the point is to put out a max effort.

DE - For squats, use a wave (as described on the site), for bench they suggfest sticking with the same % of max over 4 weeks.

How often do you switch exercises on ME day and on speed day?

** Depends. If you are fairly new to lifting, every 3 weeks. As you gain experience, you'll have to switch more often.

How often do you max out?

** Every ME day. If you mean test your Squat/bench/dead maxes - I would do it every 8-10 weeks or so. The 9 week program has you test them in week 9, as I recall

When they say allmost all of your ME Bench exercises are done with a close grip, how close do they mean? Like close grip bench pressing or further apart?

** Closer than your competition - usually hands inside the rings. You can vary it as you like.

What do they mean by `use three different grips on bench press`?

** close grip (index on smooth) med grip (inbetween the rings) and wide grip (either your competition grip, or a little narrower)

Can I replace replace Good Morning's with SLDL and Squats with barbell hack squats?

** where? ME lifts? I guess, although if you are doing the 9 week program, I'd stick with the listed lifts. For your assistance work - do stuff you aren't good at.

Also, there are a bunch of exerices I've never seen done, and they aren't on the extx website everyone uses. Is there a site where I could find explanations on how to do these lifts?:
Reverse Hypers, One Leg Squats, One arm Press, JM Press, Glute
Ham Raise, face pulls, Ball Press, Pin Press and Carpet Press.

** Many of them are shown on the elite site (in ask dave under excercise descriptions).

DK
11-13-2002, 01:18 PM
Thanks Paul.

I'm starting to comprehend this a little better. Soon I will have my westside routine!

benchmonster
11-13-2002, 04:40 PM
dkliewer,

I would also not recommend mixing periodization with westside. Don't raise the weights by a certain percentage every week thinking that will work. That is exactly what western periodization is.

Stick with the 9 week basic training program. Keep bench percentage the same every week on speed day, and on M.e. day change exercises often and always try to break a PR. On speed squats, use the pendulum wave.

B.

DK
11-13-2002, 08:03 PM
If you are sticking with the same weight every week on DE day; how will this help? Do you just shoot for more reps each week? I just don't see the point. You're hopfully going to be getting stronger.

Chris Rodgers
11-13-2002, 08:29 PM
You are increasing your speed. You adjust the weight on DE day when your max goes up. If the weight you are using on DE day is really too light you can adjust it up. Faster is better. Check your ego at the door on DE day. Save it for ME day.

DK
11-13-2002, 08:53 PM
Yeah I get it. I guess I'll set my % at 60% and see if that works. If it is to light I'll raise it. That is like 75lbs for me, does that sound about right?

I was thinking that I really want to do more deadlifts than what that routine shows. Is there a way I could incorporate more deadlift work into my routine, since it is my favorite lift. I think this is kinda like what Latman does.

Paul Stagg
11-14-2002, 10:47 AM
In my limted WSB experience, you tend to be better off doing more stuff you don't like and are not good at.

But, tailor it to your needs. If you wanna pull more, pull more.

WSB/Dave Tate change what they suggest a lot... they used to suggest something like 70% GM's, 20% squat, 10% pulls... now they seem to suggest a more even distribution.

PowerManDL
11-14-2002, 11:02 AM
If you really want the feel of a heavier weight on DE day (I know I do), add in a few singles after the speed work in the 80-90% range. You can do that w/o comprimising recovery.

Paul Stagg
11-14-2002, 11:07 AM
Good point - I do that as well - every other week after DE work I do 2 or three singles at a weight I won't miss, just to check how my speed is with a heavy weight.

For example, my bench is 290. After DE work this week (8x3 @ 175), I'll do a single at 245, then 265, depending on how I feel.

PowerManDL
11-14-2002, 11:11 AM
Yah-- it adds a degree of specificity to it as well-- I'm almost convinced it should be a mandatory part of the dynamic-effort work.

Paul Stagg
11-14-2002, 11:16 AM
Tate suggests that 10% of your DE lifts shoudl be 80-90%

PowerManDL
11-14-2002, 11:20 AM
http://www.muller-godschalk.com/msnimages/-@.gif

DK
11-15-2002, 11:18 AM
Thats a good Idea Powerman. I'll raise my DE Work to maybe 100 lbs to start with and then do some singles in the 185-190 range.

What is your opinion on GPP? Do you guys do it?

Also, I am almost sure I won't be able to do some of the exercises that Dave Tate list, Mainly because my gym doesn't have the equipment. I don't have access to a reverse hyper machine. Good Morings will also be hard since I don't have a squat/power rack. I'll probably do freeweight hack squats and I'll try good mornings without a rack.

Paul Stagg
11-15-2002, 11:24 AM
No power rack? that will present some safety issues.

I don't have access to a GHR or reverse hyper, either. SLDL, hypers, pullthrus, Dimel deads, partial deads, good mornings all substitute quite nicely.

I don't do much GPP, although I do try to get some cardio in.

TMan
11-15-2002, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
No power rack? that will present some safety issues.

I don't have access to a GHR or reverse hyper, either. SLDL, hypers, pullthrus, Dimel deads, partial deads, good mornings all substitute quite nicely.

I don't do much GPP, although I do try to get some cardio in.

I work at home but I can still do GHR and reverse hypers. You can do GHRs with a stability ball and a non-smooth wall. You can also do hamstring curls with a power rack and bench using the safety pins to hold down your ankles.

Put a board across the safety pins of a power rack lay on the board with legs hanging off and you can do reverse hypers. You can also use a dip belt or rope to attach weight to your feet. Of course, you don't have a power rack but maybe you can find something to substitute.

DK
11-16-2002, 04:22 PM
So on my ME day, could I do deadlifts 3x5 or something like that?
Actually I do think my gym has a GHR bench, but it is upstairs and their are no barbells allowed up their. There are some plates so I'll probably just put a plate on the back of my shoulders.

Is it a problem to perform good mornings without a power rack?

How do you do Dimel Deads? I can't find an explanation anywhere

Should I do calf work. If so, where would you put it in?

PowerManDL
11-16-2002, 06:55 PM
Dimels are a variant of the SLDL.

Take the bar with a wide grip, lower it to just below the knee, and explode it back up. THis is usually done for pretty high reps.

DK
11-16-2002, 10:34 PM
Here is how my routine looks for the first week. It is slightly changed from the one at Elite.

Day 1 – ME Squat/DEADLIFT Day
Good Mornings: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max.
Dimel Deads – 1x12 warm-up, 3x12 work sets
Glute Ham raises: 3 sets of 10 reps. Stress the eccentric, try to get a four count on they way down.
Straight leg raises: 5 sets of 15 reps
Obliques - Dumbbell side bends - 3 sets of 4-8 reps

Day 2 – ME Bench Day
Board Press: warm up doing sets of three reps until you feel that you can no longer perform three reps. At this point drop the reps to one and continuing working up to a one rep max. Start with 10, 8 as warm ups.
DB Bench 3x3x6
Lying Barbell tricep extensions: 6 sets of 10 reps
Chins strap on weight for 3x3x8
Tricep Push Downs: 3 sets of 10
One Arm Press: 3 sets of 15

Day 3 – Speed Squat/deadlift day
Maybe hack squats? Box Squats: 10 sets of 2 reps with 50% of 1RM (45 to 60 sec rest between sets) (Bar weight doesn’t count)
Speed dead lifts 7x3
One Leg Squats: 4 sets of 10 with each leg
Dumbbell Rows: 4 sets of 6 reps
Barbell Shrugs: 3 sets of 15 reps
Static holds or Farmers walk.

Day 4 – Speed Bench Day
Bench Press: 10 sets of 3 reps with 60% of 1RM; use three different grips; (45 to 60 sec rest between sets)
Lying Dumbbell Tricep Extensions: 4 sets of 8 reps
Hammer Curl 2x10-15
Dumbbell Side Raises: 3 sets of 10 reps
Bent over Dumbbell Side Raises: 3 sets of 10 rep
Abs Pull down Abs: 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps or Decline sit-ups with 5 second pause at bottom - 4 sets of 8-12 reps

Does this look good?

Paul Stagg
11-17-2002, 11:31 AM
Looks like a good place to start.

Remember to tailor it to your weaknesses.

DK
11-17-2002, 05:10 PM
I'd say my weakness is bench, but I think I have enough volume for tris, delts, and chest to get it up. I'm going to try it out tomorrow. Thanks for all the help guys. I know so much more about Westside now than I would've if I just would have found a routine and went with it.