PDA

View Full Version : MonStar's Journal: A New Beginning



Pages : [1] 2 3

MonStar
11-14-2002, 10:31 PM
MonStar's Journal: A New Beginning

Not sure what the heck happened to my first journal. To make a long story short---this is the new journal.

Not going to go into all of the details that I did with the last one. The bottom line is that I am merely starting all over again with my training and everything else. I am just trying to do what I enjoy doing and not get into the details too much. Stick to heavy weights, and just lift, eat, rest, and grow!

Going to follow a rather basic bodypart manipulation:

- Pull
- Push
- Legs

I will be pretty much taking rest days whenever I need them, and Ill be doing whatever exercises I feel like doing. Not going to have much structure because as I slowly get to know myself better I am very apt to tweak things on a pretty regular basis. This way Ill be able to try whatever exercise I feel, etc.

Guys---please support me as much as ever, I need it! Sorry for the delay of this journal I am sure many of you are wondering what the hell is going on. Wish me luck.

MonStar
11-14-2002, 10:31 PM
_______________________________________
DAY 1
Wednesday, 11-13-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel okay today I think, I dont know. Thinking a lot about my life and what I want to do with it and everything like that. Trying hard to just simply stay HAPPY. Not getting stressed out, not doing anything that I dont want to do, etc. I am the only one thats in control of my life---no one else. I need to just get my life in order and keep it that way. Thats the bottom line. Especially with school. I feel like once school slips, I start to let other things in my life slip. Which isnt a good idea at all. I work today from 2-7 which isnt going to be bad at all, because I enjoy work.

PAIN/SORENESS
Not sore today at all. If anything, I feel good. Body feels good. Not going to worry much about feeling fat because thats just depressing. Just going to focus on building my body. Not building my body and worrying about minor fat-gain. I am not going to be a blimp of course but I am not on 'roids so I cant expect 100% fat-free muscle gain.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Preworkout: orange juice, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 5cc Liquid Clenbutrx
During Workout: 20 oz. Gatorade + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 1/2 tsp. salt
Postworkout: 1/2 serving Cell-Tech, 500 mg. ALA, 1 serving whey protein
Meal 4: energy bar, lemonade sprizter, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 5: cheese + crackers
Meal 6: soy protein bar, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 7: coconut macaroon, lemonade spritzer
Meal 8: 2 choclate-chip waffles, 2% milk + ovaltine
Meal 9: macaroni & cheese, lemonade
Meal 10: 1 McDonald's fruit & yogurt parfait, 1 McDonald's apple pie

Estimated Calories: ~3500

TRAINING---PULL
Wide-grip Overhand Behind-neck Chins:
BWx9!+2 (negatives), BWx5.5
Some damn hard sets of BTN chins today. GOOD sets though, I was really impressed with my strength on the first set to be honest. Managed to chin 9 reps BTN which is a new PB for me. Then afterwards I did the positive portion of two reps and did a nice slow negative. Really feeling the movement in my lats. Contracted my lats extremely hard. Right under my armpits. Dropped down to my BW for 5.5 reps. Lats were shot. Really contracted my lats hard with the both of these sets. I was happy. Going to obviously keep my BW for next week, see what happens.

Bentover Overhand Barbell Rows:
225x6!, 205x8
Some damn good sets of bentover BB rows. I can honestly admit to never doing these before. I used to do tons of Yates style rows with an underhand grip on a cambered-bar. But when it comes to overhand BB rows to the waist, I have never done them. Really like them. Contracted my lats hard. Started off with 225x6. Good set here, obviously a PB since I have never done them before. Going to most likely shoot for 230x6 next back day. See how I handle that. I hope to get up near 300 lbs. maybe in the next 3-4 months. I dont know, well see what happens. Dropped down to 205x8 which was a good set also. Contracted my lats hard here. Damn good set. Probably going to shoot for 210 next back day.

Seated V-bar Cable Rows:
230x5.5!, 200x7.5
Two damn hard sets of v-bar cable rows today. Crushed my midback and lats. I have always liked these things, ever since I can remember. Still really enjoy them. Arch my back and just pull the v-bar straight to my lower-abdomen. Good sets. Started off with 230x5.5 which was a new PB for me. Lots o' new PBs today. Hard sets. Dropped down to 200x7.5, which was also good. At this point my lats were just destroyed. Damn good pump in my lats though.

Crossbench Dumbbell Pullovers:
75x6!
Wow, another PB! I dont even know why I tried for a 75 lbs. DB on these. Well last time I did them I used a 60x12 and that wasnt too bad so I just jumped up a bit. I hope to get up to a 100 lbs. DB for these in the future. Feel them a lot in my serratus, lats, and sternum. Great exercise though. Hit my lats hard and a really good finishing movement I think. I was impressed. Going to shoot for an 80 lbs. DB next week. :D:D

Dumbbell Shrugs:
100x8, 100x7
Good sets of shrugs today I think, I dont know. Nothing thrilling here. Hit my traps hard with some good contractions in that area. Traps seemed to already be hit hard from the rows and all that but this was basically just a way to make sure they were fried. Good sets here. Nice stretch in my traps at the bottom of each rep which was good.

Seated Bentover Dumbbell Laterals:
30x9, 25x10
Good sets of bentover laterals today. Basically did these for my rear delts and my mid-trap area. Seemed to hit both well. Going to stick with 25s for both sets. 30s were a little bit too heavy unfortunately. Good sets though. I cant decide if these are worth it to do or not. Because I know that my rear delts and middle-traps get hit with bentover rows, etc.

Incline Alternating Dumbbell Curls:
35x8, 35x7
Good hard sets of incline curls today for my biceps. Really destroyed my arms completely. Not that this means anything, but this is just about the only exercise that produces noticeable DOMS in my biceps. I dont know why but BB curls dont make my arms sore at all. Anyways I really like these, theyre probably the exercise that I find best for my biceps. Going to hang onto this one! Got 8 and 7 reps with each set. Good sets. Biceps were beat.

One-arm Dumbbell Zottman Preacher Curls:
25x8/8
Wow, awesome exercise!! I have never done these before and who the hell knows why I decided to give them a shot. Just something to hit my brachialis more or less and decided to go with them. I read about them years ago and thought eh' what the hell! Those of you who are confused about this exercise its simply a one-arm DB preacher curl, with the negative portion of each rep with your hand facing the floor. So you curl the DB up palms to the ceiling, then twist your wrist at the top, and lower the DB with your palms facing the floor. Good exercise if you ask me. Got 8 reps with each arm. Nice SLOW set which was damn hard on my arms.

Standing Rope Hammer Cable Curls:
150x8!
LOL! I got some stares from this exercise. I didnt expect to be able to go this heavy, damn. I have done rope curls around 2-3 years ago and I always liked them, so I gave them a shot today. Started off with 100 lbs. and it felt pretty light so I went heavier. Jumped to 150 lbs. and the stack is only 200 lbs. Everyone that was in the gym thought it was some kinda freak show. LOL. Form was honestly flawless though. Elbows tight against my sides, nice full ROM, etc. Slow set too. Brachialis and brachioradialis and forearms were so godd*mn pumped afterwards it was insane. Great exercise here. :thumbup::thumbup:

TRAINING LENGTH
35 minutes

SLEEP
9 hours

WEIGHT
207 lbs. (home)---215 lbs. (gym)

MISCELLANEOUS
Workout this morning was good I think. I dont know. 35 minutes long which wasnt too bad. Gym was a bit packed. Slept well last night. Got 9 hours of sleep which I needed!! I was happy about this, damn. Really happy about this. Weight this morning at home was 207 and at the gym it was 215 lbs. Good weight. Still hoping to add some size and development to my physique.

Alex.V
11-14-2002, 10:33 PM
Note to all. This doesn't count as another journal, since the old one went bye bye. :)

Your diet still scares me, but nice workout. :D

MonStar
11-14-2002, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Belial
Note to all. This doesn't count as another journal, since the old one went bye bye. :)

Your diet still scares me, but nice workout. :D

Hey thanks a lot B---thanks for chiming in man. Havnt heard from you in a while. Obviously your strength is continuing to increase which is awesome, good work on the deadlifts lately. :thumbup::thumbup: Thanks for the comments about my back workout, was pretty good. Bentover rows are great, I am going to definitely start doing them on a regular basis. Maybe Ill get near 295x6, BCC's strength, or 315x.. whatever you do. Jeez.

WillKuenzel
11-14-2002, 10:40 PM
Good luck with it.


Thinking a lot about my life and what I want to do with it and everything like that. Trying hard to just simply stay HAPPY. Not getting stressed out, not doing anything that I dont want to do, etc. I am the only one thats in control of my life---no one else. I need to just get my life in order and keep it that way.
I know exactly how you feel. Its tough sometimes but it all works out. Keep pumping the iron. With desire and some patience all good things come.

MonStar
11-14-2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by HomeYield
Good luck with it.

I know exactly how you feel. Its tough sometimes but it all works out. Keep pumping the iron. With desire and some patience all good things come.

Thanks a lot for the support HY, means a lot man, seriously. I appreciate that. Exactly man, Ill definitely keep pumping iron. I am going to try and forget about exact rep schemes, exact training splits, etc. I am going to make sure that I get adequate rest, adequate calories, etc. Just focus on growth. Try not to get into all the specific details because that takes the fun out of going to the gym if you ask me.

Exactly man, dedication + consistency = results.

MonStar
11-14-2002, 10:46 PM
_______________________________________
DAY 2
Thursday, 11-14-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel pretty good today I think, I dont know. Today I have economics which I do NOT feel like going to at all, jeez. I am completely dreading that friggin' class. This morning I am going to wash my car pretty quickly. Just get some of the dirt and grime off of it. Looks like crap after a few days of rain. Oh well, thats what I get for having a white car I guess, cant complain. Looks DAMN good when its finally clean too which is good. Anyway I am really really really dreading going to economics!!

PAIN/SORENESS
Ow, friggin' sore as hell today!! :D:D Back hasnt been this sore in a long, long, long, time. I am damn excited about this. Lats are sore from under my armpits all the way down to my waist. GREAT feeling. Midback is damn sore too, and so are my traps. Middle and upper traps are stiff as f*ck.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Meal 1: frosted mini-wheats cereal + skim milk, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 2: 2 Taco Bell supreme beef gorditas, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 3: 1 kit-kat bar, 1 bag crispy m&ms
Meal 4: 1 protein bar
Meal 5: fat-free pringles, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 6: 2% milk, 2 choclate-chip waffles
Meal 7: macaroni & cheese, 2% milk + ovaltine

Estimated Calories: ~3400

TRAINING---REST
N/A.

TRAINING LENGTH
N/A.

SLEEP
3+4 hours

WEIGHT
207.5 lbs. (home)

MISCELLANEOUS
Damn good thing that its a rest day today, I am aching. Good feeling though I am happy that I am this sore. If DOMS was an indication of growth my lats would be friggin' blowing up. Anyway sleep was okay. Broken up unfortunately but oh well. Weight this morning was pretty good too I think I dont know. Need to keep shooting for a little bit at a time. Well see what happens.

WillKuenzel
11-14-2002, 10:55 PM
I might suggest you adding some more protein to your diet. My diet was very similar to yours for awhile and when I started eating more protein (getting some shakes too). I noticed a big difference. I was a probably 20 pounds lighter than you now so it might have just been more calories but it really helped. I got bigger and got quite a bit stronger.

I had kind of thought my progress had plateaued but adding that protein caused quite a surge. Do you normally get more protein than that?

Franjipani
11-14-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Everyone that was in the gym thought it was some kinda freak show. LOL. Form was honestly flawless though. Elbows tight against my sides, nice full ROM, etc. Slow set too. Brachialis and brachioradialis and forearms were so godd*mn pumped afterwards it was insane. Great exercise here. :thumbup::thumbup:


Congrats on your PB's MonStar:D.

I wish there was some excitement at my gym like that..... I've yet to come across an impressive physique & strength like you guys have on this forum:(

Now that I've put it out there.....perhaps the universe will provide:D

eclips1
11-14-2002, 11:13 PM
Monstar, nice back work!! Do you do your bent over rows over or underhand?? I've tried these before but as I fatiuge I cheat a lot and end up really working my rear delts more than anything. How far over do you bend on these?

MonStar
11-15-2002, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by HomeYield
I might suggest you adding some more protein to your diet. My diet was very similar to yours for awhile and when I started eating more protein (getting some shakes too). I noticed a big difference. I was a probably 20 pounds lighter than you now so it might have just been more calories but it really helped. I got bigger and got quite a bit stronger.

I had kind of thought my progress had plateaued but adding that protein caused quite a surge. Do you normally get more protein than that?

Yeah I really should be focusing on my protein intake. For some reason for me lately its been very hard for me to get a lot of protein in my diet. I dont know why. I mean for convenience reasons between school and work etc. I manage to stop at fast food places. And theyre food is so damn LOW in protein its ridiculous. Like 20g per cheeseburger, etc. Youre right HY, thanks for pointing this out to me. Protein is obviously essential for muscle growth.

MonStar
11-15-2002, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by Franjipani
Congrats on your PB's MonStar:D.

Hey thanks a lot Fran. Appreciate it.


I wish there was some excitement at my gym like that..... I've yet to come across an impressive physique & strength like you guys have on this forum:(

Now that I've put it out there.....perhaps the universe will provide:D

Haha I know what you mean. There arent many really strong or big guys at my gym either. I dont know why. Theres this one guy whos very very strong but its obvious that hes on 'roids. So I dont give the guy much credit. But other than him there really isnt anyone else. I wish that I worked out with a ton of real big guys that would be great inspiration I think.

MonStar
11-15-2002, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by eclips1
Monstar, nice back work!! Do you do your bent over rows over or underhand?? I've tried these before but as I fatiuge I cheat a lot and end up really working my rear delts more than anything. How far over do you bend on these?

LOL---not trying to flame you at all clips trust me but lemme take a quote from my journal entry.


Bentover Overhand Barbell Rows:

Overhand BB rows man. ;);) I do them at about a 70 degree angle to the floor I think. In between standing completely upright and being bentover at a 90 degree angle. They really really hit my back hard, ow. My back hasnt been this friggin' sore in a LONG, long, time. I might throw in some sets of supported rows too. But I havnt done BB rows in so long I need to work my strength up on them.

the doc
11-15-2002, 07:53 AM
well monstar dedication + consistancy = results

but you seem to lack the latter (consistancy)

my advice would be to pick one main exercise/ body part and gauge your progress via that lift

feel free to explore all the secondary lifts you want

MonStar
11-15-2002, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by the doc
well monstar dedication + consistancy = results

but you seem to lack the latter (consistancy)

Thats absolutely right. And I hope to fix that problem in this journal doc. I want to be dedicated and stay 100% consistent. Well see what happens I guess. I have been getting okay results without the consistency so I hoping that once I am very consistent Ill get even better results. Well see what happens I guess. Thanks for being honest.


my advice would be to pick one main exercise/ body part and gauge your progress via that lift

feel free to explore all the secondary lifts you want

Completely agreed. The only thing is that with back for example I am so used to starting my back workout off with chins it would be hard not to. And chins arent that great of guage only because your BW flucuates, etc. Thats why I am thinking about moving bentover rows to my first exercise. But I am thinking I would have no chinning strength left after two sets of them. What do you think doc?

MonStar
11-15-2002, 09:01 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 3
Friday, 11-15-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel pretty good today I think, I dont know. Today I have chest, delts, and triceps at the gym. And then after that I have computer class, and then immediately after that I have to go run to work from around 12-7. So its all good. Busy today but oh well. Well see what happens. Been feeling a little bit better lately which is good. Really trying to not let myself get in another slump like I have gotten into before. Thats really not good for me at all. I miss my girlfriend so much, I feel like I havnt seen her in a long time. In reality its only been a few hours. :angel::angel:

PAIN/SORENESS
Damn I am still aching today!! Ouch! Lats are friggin' killing me from my under my armpits all the way down to my waist. Traps are also friggin' killing me. Sternum aching from the DB pullovers is definitely very obvious as well.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Preworkout: 1/2 banana, 1 apple, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 5cc Liquid Clenbutrx
During Workout: 20 oz. Gatorade + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 1/2 tsp. salt
Postworkout: 1/2 serving Cell-Tech, 500 mg. ALA, 1 serving whey protein
Meal 4: whole milk, choclate-chip cookies, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 5: soy protein bar
Meal 6: cheese + crackers
Meal 7: soda, macaroni & cheese
Meal 8: soy protein bar, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 9: 1 quart chicken fried rice, powerade
Meal 10: choclate eclair, low-fat yogurt

Estimated Calories: ~5000

TRAINING---PUSH
Incline Barbell Presses:
225x3!+2 (assisted), 185x9+1 (assisted)
Some really really good sets of incline BB presses today. Havnt done these in approximately 1.5 years I would say. Maybe a little more I have no idea. Good strength here though. The highest I ever got up to before was 185x4 I believe. I did some warmups today but didnt include them so theres no confusion. Used 135 and 185 for warmups. Jumped up to 225 lbs. Managed to get a triple with 225 on my own which was honestly really good for me. Spotter helped me get 2 more. He said he just used fingertip assistance which was definitely a good thing. Dropped down to 185 for 9, and then one assisted. Good sets here. Really like inclines. I figured since it was chest and delt day this wouldnt be a problem at all. Prefer these over flat BB presses any day.

Flat Dumbbell Presses:
100x4.5, 90x6.5
Good sets of flat DB presses today. Chest was pumped after these 2 sets. The only thing that kind of bothered me was that I cannot seem to get more than 4.5 reps with the 100s. I am going to have to try harder next week and see how I do with them. Dropped to 90s for 6.5 reps. Nice strength here. Chest was shot. Good pump in my pecs and nice hard contractions with each rep.

Flat Dumbbell Flyes:
60x7, 60x6
Some good sets of flyes today I think. Really focused hard on my chest contractions. Both sets I used the 60s which is good I guess I dont know. Dont want to cause any kind of problems in my rotator cuffs do I am not going go extremely heavy on these like I used to. Anyways, both hard sets. Chest was friggin' pumped like crazy after these 2 sets. Going to most likely keep the 60s for next week, well see what happens.

Standing Cable Crossovers:
80x8!
Awesome set of cable crossovers today. I really like these even though theyre far from a compound exercise. I always get an amazing pump in my pecs and some a nice deep burn in my muscles to finish them off. Got 8 reps with 80 lbs. on each side. Good strength here. Going to keep 80 lbs. for a while. Honestly feels quite heavy considering its cable crossovers, and its a b*tch exercise---for 'carving striations in your pecs.' LOL. Good set.

One-arm Dumbbell Side-laterals:
55x7/7
Nice set of DB laterals today. Really focused hard on my side-delts which was good. Got 7 reps with each arm. Nice form here, really good delt contractions. Going to most likely keep this same weight next week.

One-arm Cable Side-laterals:
40x8/8
Good set of cable side-laterals today. Got 8 reps on each side which was good. Little bit too much trap involvement for some reason, I dont know why. Oh well. Still both good sets. Delts looked damn good in the mirror after this set. Going to keep this weight next week and see what happens.

Seated Machine Side-laterals:
140x8
Havnt used this machine in a WHILE. Its the classic Nautilus lateral machine. I really like it. Got some damn good delt contractions with this thing. First I used 100 lbs. and it felt a bit too easy so I upped it to 140 lbs. and got 8 reps. Good set, I really like these. Delts were aching after these. My delts were finished.

Lying Cambered-bar Extensions (to neck):
185x4!, 135x6
Nice strength here on skullcrushers!! Even though theyre to my neck this was still damn good. Used a cambered-bar today to take some of the pressure off of my wrist. Nice strength here I think. Hit failure with 4 reps no doubt about it. Cant decide if I want to keep these in my routine or not though. I am thinking that I might feel another exercise a bit more. Oh well. Dropped down to 135 for 6 reps. Nice strength on the both of these sets. Really f*cked up my triceps.

Seated One-arm Dumbbell Extensions:
35x7/7
A damn good set of french curls today. Haha everyone seems to call these something different. Used a 35 lbs. DB for 7 reps on each side. Nice strength here. Triceps were friggin' pumped and exausted after this set. 7th rep on each side was failure. Ouch.

Overhead Rope Cable Extensions:
140x5.5!
GREAT finisher for my triceps today---damn! These are a bit hard to explain but Ill do my best. I am simply using the rope attachment on the high cable pulley. I am grabbing the rope attachment, and turning around so to speak. So my a*s is facing the weight stack. Then I just lean over, and do overhead extensions this way. A bit hard to explain. Used 140 lbs. for 5.5 reps. Maybe Ill decrease the weight a bit next week, well see what happens. Good set here though. Damn. Triceps were on fire, and pumped the f*ck up.

TRAINING LENGTH
30 minutes

SLEEP
7 hours

WEIGHT
207 lbs. (home)---216 lbs. (gym) :eek::eek:

MISCELLANEOUS
Good workout this morning, tried to rush it a bit. Slept pretty well last night I guess I dont know, nothing too great. Didnt wake up at all which is a good thing I guess. Weight this morning at home was 207 lbs. which is fairly decent I think. Again, nothing spectacular of course. At the gym this morning I weighed 216 lbs.!! I cant believe how friggin' heavy I am getting. I dont feel too fat either which is damn good sign. I would love to hit 225 lbs. by January 1st. Damn that would be insane.

The Calvinator
11-15-2002, 09:22 AM
the only thing i see wrong with your diet is that you went to McDonald's and not burger king, and good choice on the taco bell, keep it up!!

GeneticallyGifted
11-15-2002, 09:25 AM
What is up with this diet? I've been checking it out and like Belial the sh!t simply scares me. Whoa ...more power to ya.

GG

MonStar
11-15-2002, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by The Calvinator
the only thing i see wrong with your diet is that you went to McDonald's and not burger king, and good choice on the taco bell, keep it up!!

LOL---damn straight C. :D:D Taco Bell gorditas are friggin' awesome arent they? Great stuff. Yeah McDonald's I really dont care for that much. Wendy's and Taco Bell, and maybe Burger King are my favorite places to go. Always healthy too haha. Frosty's are also friggin' great. Damn fast food is terrible for you, but great tasting if you ask me.

MonStar
11-15-2002, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by GeneticallyGifted
What is up with this diet? I've been checking it out and like Belial the sh!t simply scares me. Whoa ...more power to ya.

GG

I am basically eating whatever I want trying to add some size. Focusing on my total # of calories rather than the exact foods that I am consuming. Has its ups and downs I guess. Obviously the amount of saturated fat that I am taking in is way too high, but oh well. I am trying to live a little rather than be all anal about my diet. I cannot be dealing with that right now.

Thanks for checking out my journal GG.

Workhorse
11-15-2002, 09:34 AM
Monstar, looks like you're doing great!! Keep up the hard work, I can't wait till I get to 210 pounds, just like you... maybe I should call you me HERO?? lol :D

Workhorse

MonStar
11-15-2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Workhorse
Monstar, looks like you're doing great!! Keep up the hard work, I can't wait till I get to 210 pounds, just like you... maybe I should call you me HERO?? lol :D

Workhorse

Hey thanks a lot WH, really appreciate the kind words man, seriously. Your bf% is a lot lower than mine so I doubt I am any bigger than you. I mean if I am its just because my bf% is a bit higher---no big deal. Youll be at 210 lbs. in no time man. I am shooting for 225 lbs. maybe close to January 1, 2003. Good luck getting to 210 lbs., youll be there soon enough.

the doc
11-15-2002, 10:28 AM
monstar i think moving rows to primary exercise would be a good idea. I am actually doing the same... (use bw chins as only a warmup for the lats since they have a god range of motion)

Silverback
11-15-2002, 12:30 PM
word mike,

good to see your seeking a new direction and i respect you for it. The bench pressing you did both bb and db was quality man, keep up the good work and im with you all the way.

I hear you on the link between school and motivation, i was exactly the same, when i was doing well in class i was invincible, but poor work= **** workouts etc...

As for your diet, well it may not be a perfect example of nutrition but it will serve its purpose. ive started to take this look upon my diet, some saturated fats aint gonna kill you, i mean we are training this will help us big time, i just pitty the sedentry.

oh ye cheers 4 posting in my journal man much appreciated :) :)

Maki Riddington
11-15-2002, 08:34 PM
Your diet is a fat slobs dream.
Just don't start complaing afterwards that you look like a fat pig.

Good luck.

MonStar
11-15-2002, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by the doc
monstar i think moving rows to primary exercise would be a good idea. I am actually doing the same... (use bw chins as only a warmup for the lats since they have a god range of motion)

Agreed doc. I am going to move bentover BB rows to my primary back exercise. See how heavy I can get with this exercise. I would love to be pulling 275+ lbs. in the future. That would be great. My competition is obviously very tough, BCC with 295 lbs. BB rows and Belial with 315 lbs. BB rows. Jeez. Hope to catch up to those guys one day. Well see what happens.

MonStar
11-15-2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
word mike,

good to see your seeking a new direction and i respect you for it. The bench pressing you did both bb and db was quality man, keep up the good work and im with you all the way.

Hey thanks a lot BR, I appreciate the post. You are always very positive in your posts I really seriously appreciate it. Anyway thanks a lot for hte comments about my pressing strength. My incline BB pressing strength was okay, hopefully Ill get those #s way up. Same goes for my flat DB pressing strength.


I hear you on the link between school and motivation, i was exactly the same, when i was doing well in class i was invincible, but poor work= **** workouts etc...

Yeah glad that you can relate man. Its tough to combine work and school. Sh*ts a b*tch isnt it man? Jeez. Like I dont have enough to deal with already, damn. Oh well. Well see what happens.


As for your diet, well it may not be a perfect example of nutrition but it will serve its purpose. ive started to take this look upon my diet, some saturated fats aint gonna kill you, i mean we are training this will help us big time, i just pitty the sedentry.

I agree man I may not be the poster boy diet wise but I dont think that my diet is holding me back in anyway shape or form. If anything it is simply holding up my bf% from getting any lower. But other than that I feel good, I am stronger, etc. So I am not going to change things up just because its considered 'unhealthy.'


oh ye cheers 4 posting in my journal man much appreciated :) :)

No problem, appreciate the support as well. :D:D

MonStar
11-15-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Your diet is a fat slobs dream.
Just don't start complaing afterwards that you look like a fat pig.

Good luck.

LOL---yeah I guess it is a fat slob's dream huh? :p:p I am having fun though Maki Ill tell ya. I wont look like a fat pig dont worry, so there will be no reason to complain. Thanks for chiming in man.

the doc
11-15-2002, 10:45 PM
also monstar i would recommend the curl grip pulldowns be incorperated as chris recommends. THey seem to really work the lats well over the whole ROM

Saturday Fever
11-16-2002, 12:32 AM
Are you suggesting the way you hold the bar affects how much of the ROM works your lats?

MonStar
11-16-2002, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by the doc
also monstar i would recommend the curl grip pulldowns be incorperated as chris recommends. THey seem to really work the lats well over the whole ROM

I dont know doc, I prefer BTN chins over any kind of curl-grip pulldown. I have tried both and its really not much of a question for me. In my opinion one of the chinning movments destroys the other. I can tell but how much I feel the exercise, my pump, my DOMS the next day, etc. Just an observation. Thanks for the post doc.

MonStar
11-16-2002, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Are you suggesting the way you hold the bar affects how much of the ROM works your lats?

I am not sure if youre referring to me or doc. I think that your grip on the bar does affect the stimulation of the muscles. Obviously a close-grip on bench for example will hit your triceps more, etc. With chins an underhand grip supposedly lets you lats fail last---although I have experienced much much better gains from BTN chins, rather than curl-grip chins.

MonStar
11-16-2002, 07:25 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 4
Saturday, 11-16-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel good today I think. I am doing legs this morning so that should workout well. I was talking with Saturday Fever about my recuperation and he brought up a very interesting way of tracking recovery from Supertraining. Very interesting. You take the # of days that you have negative traces (like DOMS for example), and multiply that # by 3 to get when you would train next. For example I did my back on Wednesday, and my back is still sore. Hopefully it wont be sore tomorrow so thats Thursday, Friday, and Saturday it was sore. So 3x3=9, meaning that I would train my back again next Thursday. You include the day that you trained the musclegroup and the day youre training it again. Might give it a shot I dont know yet.

PAIN/SORENESS
Chest and triceps are friggin' F*CKED. Sore as sh*t. Lats are stiff tense, I am not sure what the problem is. Well see what happens with my session this morning. I have been eating a ton but my DOMS has been insane. I dont know what the problem is. Traps feel fine, but my lats are still aching. So this is the 3rd day that I still have negative traces in my lats. Damn.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Preworkout: crushed pineapple, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 5cc Liquid Clenbutrx
During Workout: 20 oz. Gatorade + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 1/2 tsp. salt
Postworkout: 1/2 serving Cell-Tech, 500 mg. ALA, 1 serving whey protein
Meal 4: dried apricots
Meal 5: soy protein shake
Meal 6: macaroni & cheese, lemonade spritzer, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 7: soy protein bar
Meal 8: soy protein bar
Meal 9: 1 Wendy's small frosty, 1 Wendy's cheeseburger, 1 Wendy's 5-piece chicken tender, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 10: 3 pudding snacks, skim milk

Estimated Calories: ~3600

TRAINING---LEGS
Squats:
375x5!, 315x7
Damn, some HARD sets of squats today. I am not sure what the problem was but I didnt feel fully recovered at all. For some reason during squats today my body just wouldnt go through the motions, I had to force it. It was hard to explain I just felt like my flexibility was gone or something. Need to stretch some more obviously. Anyway it felt very awkward for some reason. Oh well. ROM was still good. Just some discomfort. Anyways started off with some warmups, that I dont have listed. 135, 225, and 315 I believe. Jumped up to 375 for 5. New PB! I was happy about my strength here. Dropped down to three plates for 7 reps. Second set was friggin' KILLER. Exausted my lower body completely. I felt like I was drained after these two worksets. Damn.

Power Squats:
520x8!, 430x10
This is an exercise that I actually thought was the hack squat, LOL. I have never really payed attention to hack squats so I didnt know what the machine looked like. Looked it up and it ended up being something made my Streamline called "Power Squats"---I am going to attach a picture in the post after this entry. Good exercise. Hits my quads and glutes and hamstrings all pretty damn well. Can go heavy on it too which is nice. Started off with 520 for 8, new PB obviously. And then dropped down to 430 for 10. Good sets here. Hit my thighs hard, felt this in my glutes too.

Seated Leg Extensions:
200x10
Good set of leg ext. today, awesome quad contractions. I have always liked these because I could contract the hell out of my thighs. Got 10 reps with 200 lbs. Nice burn and lactic acid buildup in my thighs. After this my thighs were pumped and fried. Good set here though. Nice finisher for my quads.

Lying Leg Curls:
150x9
A good set of lying leg curls today for my hamstrings. I was thinking about doing either squats or GMs in each workout, not both. When I do both my lower back takes too much of a beating. Anyway, got a nice deep aching in my hamstrings during this set which was nice.

Rope Cable Pull-throughs:
120x8
Wow, I really like these! I did them 1-2 times before and stopped doing them for some reason. I dont know why. I really like them. Crushed my lower back and glutes completely. Really squeezed my glutes hard with this exercise. Glutes definitely took the majority of the stress on this movement.

Seated Calf Raises:
180x20, 180x20, 90x40
Nice sets of seated calf raises today. Was going to do standing calf raises but honestly after squats and other lower back exercises standing calf raises put a lot of pressure on my lower back. Just stabilizing the weight I guess. Anway went high-reps today on seated calf raises. FRIED my lower legs completely, damn. Some good hard sets. Calves were pumped up and ACHING after this. They were shaking like crazy when I was driving, haha.

TRAINING LENGTH
25 minutes

SLEEP
7 hours

WEIGHT
213 lbs. (home)---220 lbs. (gym) :eek::eek:

MISCELLANEOUS
Slept well last night I think, I dont know. Its all good. Damn my weight this morning at home was insane!! I usually weigh around 207-208 lbs. at home. Now I am to friggin' 213 lbs. at home!! Jesus. I think maybe I should cut back on my calories a TAD. I mean not drastically just try to shoot for ~3000 on non-training days and ~3500 on training days. Because I am gaining weight a little TOO quickly. Well see what happens. Damn, 220 lbs. at the gym this morning. Can tell me midsection is definitely softening up. Which isnt necessarily horrible because I am bulking up. But I do need to cut back my calories a bit.

MonStar
11-16-2002, 07:27 AM
Here are the Power Squats that I was doing this morning. Here is the image:

http://www.customizedfitness.com/atlantis/C-111.jpg

And for those of you who cannot view it that way, here is another one---the same machine:

Max-Mex
11-16-2002, 07:49 AM
My gym has that machine. I used to use it to prepare myself for squats. Nice machine because you can face in either direction.

MonStar
11-16-2002, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Max-Mex
My gym has that machine. I used to use it to prepare myself for squats. Nice machine because you can face in either direction.

Thanks for chiming in MM. Yeah it is a good machine it friggin' fried my thighs and glutes alright. I really like it because you can go heavy without having to stabilize the weight like you have to do in freeweight squats. I am sure I could work up to 700-800 lbs. on power squats. Damn good exercise. I was facing the weight stack by the way.

Otter
11-16-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
I was talking with Saturday Fever about my recuperation and he brought up a very interesting way of tracking recovery from Supertraining. Very interesting. You take the # of days that you have negative traces (like DOMS for example), and multiply that # by 3 to get when you would train next.

You have GOT to be kidding me, somebody was actually paid to write that? An equation for recovery time ... and I thought I'd seen it all.:rolleyes:

Why multiply it by 3? Why not 2 or 4 ... or 1.5? Just something to think about when you're reading dribble like this ... where do they come up with these figures? How is it possible to generalize that "formula" across an entire spectrum of lifters?

Sounds like something that came out of the pages of Flex. You sure that statement wasn't followed by an ad for Nitrotech?:D

Saturday Fever
11-16-2002, 11:34 AM
Actually, the idea came from Dr. Mel Siff and Zatsiorsky. They're much wiser than any of us, and the research was thorough.

Chris Rodgers
11-16-2002, 11:36 AM
You can edit it.


I don't like the idea of those being called power squats. Call them machine squats. Power squats almost sound like real squats.


Pull thrus are ace.

NateDogg
11-16-2002, 02:28 PM
Hey Mike, just checkin' out your journal. Good luck as usual. Just a suggestion, and I am not a psychologist or anything, but I would step back and take a look at yourself if I were you. You start every training/diet journal entry with, "I feel good today, I think," or "Feel good I guess, I don't know," or "I feel really good today, I think, I don't know." What's the matter that you can't just feel good? Why question it? Be happy bro!!!! Anyway, great lifts as usual.

ND

jiacstrap
11-16-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by MonStar

WEIGHT
213 lbs. (home)---220 lbs. (gym) :eek::eek:



Is this from the difference in scales or did you weight yourself in the mourning and then weight yourself in the middle of the day. Your body can fluctate a lot from food intake and water weight. I hate it, im a wrestler and after every meal have to step on the scale sometimes........

jiacstrap
11-16-2002, 02:40 PM
how long do you take between sets? 20 minutes for your leg workout? that seems really fast....

MonStar
11-16-2002, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Otter
You have GOT to be kidding me, somebody was actually paid to write that? An equation for recovery time ... and I thought I'd seen it all.:rolleyes:

Why multiply it by 3? Why not 2 or 4 ... or 1.5? Just something to think about when you're reading dribble like this ... where do they come up with these figures? How is it possible to generalize that "formula" across an entire spectrum of lifters?

Sounds like something that came out of the pages of Flex. You sure that statement wasn't followed by an ad for Nitrotech?:D

Actually Otter it was from pages 87-89 in Supertraining. And Supertraining obviously does not have anything that Flex or a Muscletech advertisement would contain. Sounds kind of crazy but I am thinking that the equation is solid. Saturday Fever has experienced good results with it, and I am hoping that I will too.

Thanks for chiming in with your opinion Otter. :):)

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Actually, the idea came from Dr. Mel Siff and Zatsiorsky. They're much wiser than any of us, and the research was thorough.

Yeah exactly, this is one of the reasons that I take it so seriously. Again, SF, thanks for bringing this to my attention. As you read and apply principles from Supertraining---its great. Because its tough for me to grasp a lot of the concept in Supertraining, So its really really nice when you can read and apply the concepts.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by LATMAN
You can edit it.


I don't like the idea of those being called power squats. Call them machine squats. Power squats almost sound like real squats.


Pull thrus are ace.

I did edit it Latty, thanks for the comments. I agree that 'Power Squats' sound a bit too much like real squats. Anyway yeah man pull throughs are friggin' awesome. They seem to isolate my glutes especially more than any other exercise. Hit my lower back extremely well also.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by NateDogg
Hey Mike, just checkin' out your journal. Good luck as usual. Just a suggestion, and I am not a psychologist or anything, but I would step back and take a look at yourself if I were you. You start every training/diet journal entry with, "I feel good today, I think," or "Feel good I guess, I don't know," or "I feel really good today, I think, I don't know." What's the matter that you can't just feel good? Why question it? Be happy bro!!!! Anyway, great lifts as usual.

ND

Hey thanks a lot for the post ND---appreciate it man. Yeah I know I do start off my comments with something like, 'I feel decent today.' Etc. I am really not sure what my problem is. I have no real TRUE reason why I shouldnt be happy. I dont know what my problem is. Thanks a lot for the comments about my lifts man, appreciate the kind words, seriously.

I am going to watch my calorie intake a bit though because I have been taking in a TON lately.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by jiacstrap
Is this from the difference in scales or did you weight yourself in the mourning and then weight yourself in the middle of the day. Your body can fluctate a lot from food intake and water weight. I hate it, im a wrestler and after every meal have to step on the scale sometimes........

Yeah I dont know whatsup with those scales LOL! I use to wrestle too so I know exactly what you mean. Strange huh? The one at my house is an electronic scale with a lithium battery, pretty good quality. The one at my gym and at my work is a balance type of scale. So I dont know which to take the most seriously. I usually take an average of home and weight. So I am assuming that right now I am around ~216 lbs. Something along those lines.


how long do you take between sets? 20 minutes for your leg workout? that seems really fast....

Thats the truth isnt it man! :D:D My workouts do fly by. I almost miss working out right as I am leaving because I feel like I am barely in the gym. 20-35 minutes is usually the range for my workouts. I mean on average I would say. I take as short of a rest period as I can handle. Maybe 45-90 seconds or something along those lines. Leaning towards :45.

By the way jiacstrap thanks for checking out my journal man.

Silverback
11-17-2002, 04:57 AM
hows it going mike, ive been thinking about your training and diet quite a bit lately from reading your posts and thought that if you changed your routine you could create something amazing. I mean know you are extremely impressive and at your age you've got the foundations. But imagine if you changed your routine (specifically times) maybe doing a 50min workout every once in a while.

And i know you are happy with your diet but if you changed it so it would be more structured then you could become even better.
Its only a suggestion and i would only want the best for fellow bodybuilders but if you are happy as you are now then stick too it.

B-R

Chris Rodgers
11-17-2002, 09:29 AM
LOL. I wasn't saying yo can edit it, I meant SF. There was a comment in there that must have been deleted. Either way, good job.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
hows it going mike, ive been thinking about your training and diet quite a bit lately from reading your posts and thought that if you changed your routine you could create something amazing. I mean know you are extremely impressive and at your age you've got the foundations. But imagine if you changed your routine (specifically times) maybe doing a 50min workout every once in a while.

And i know you are happy with your diet but if you changed it so it would be more structured then you could become even better.
Its only a suggestion and i would only want the best for fellow bodybuilders but if you are happy as you are now then stick too it.

B-R

I know what youre saying about my training and diet BR, trust me. I have heard it from practically everyone here at WBB. I enjoy the suggestions, but at this point, I cannot take them. All I am doing now is following a push-pull-legs type of split with no real scheduled rest days. And no real scheduled exercises either to be honest. So I am just trying to shoot for anything extra right now. I am just trying to take in enough calories, and lift. Not focus on anything else at the moment. Thanks for chiming in though BR, appreciate it man, seriously.

Good luck to you in the gym, and with the CKD I believe is the diet youre on now right?

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by LATMAN
LOL. I wasn't saying yo can edit it, I meant SF. There was a comment in there that must have been deleted. Either way, good job.

LOL---oh my fault Latty, haha. Its all good. I did go with Power Squats only because that is what Streamline (the company that makes the machine, calls them). It does sound a lot like real squats though thats the truth. Oh yeah, there must have been a comment in your post that was deleted. :):)

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:36 PM
_______________________________________
DAY 5
Sunday, 11-17-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Woke up feeling good today I think. Today I honestly need to get to work on a few research papers and essays that are due sometime next week. Thats what I SHOULD be doing but I think I am going to run to the bank and then to Pep Boys, LOL. Well see what happens. I want to replace my windshield wipers. Theyre all rusted on my car, not too good. Unfortunately I wont be doing another 'Pull' session until next Thursday. I was sore from Thursday-Saturday so thats (3) days, and (3)*(3)=9. So then I end up training Pull on Thursday. Maybe Ill do my Push session before that depending on my DOMS. Well see.

Haha since I rarely get enough protein I have decided to add a big high-calorie milkshake to my diet. Try and get one in every night before bed. A good high-protein MRP, some milk, and some ice-cream. The one today was Meal 2, and around ~800 calories. Around 70g of protein which was good too. :):)

PAIN/SORENESS
Lats feel good now, finally. Chest is KILLING me, and my glutes and thighs are friggin' aching. Calves really arent bad. My triceps are aching too, ow.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Meal 1: frosted mini-wheats cereal + skim milk, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 2: Meso-tech MRP + 2% milk + ice-cream, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 3: 2 Taco Bell supreme beef gorditas, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 4: nachos & cheese, twizzlers candy
Meal 5: skim milk

Estimated Calories: ~3000

TRAINING---REST
N/A.

TRAINING LENGTH
N/A.

SLEEP
1+8 hours

WEIGHT
209 lbs. (home)

MISCELLANEOUS
Glad today is a rest day, I am aching all over. Sleep was good last night. Slept a long time which is exactly what I needed I think. Some wierd dreams, oh well. Weighed in this morning at my house at 209 lbs. which is okay I guess. Want to hover around 210 lbs. for a while. See how things go at that weight.

Saturday Fever
11-17-2002, 12:44 PM
You must have had one hell of a pull day. That's good though. Think food on your rest days. I know you're watching total calories, but eating now will store energy for your next workout. And with any luck it'll keep you fueled enough that next time you'll only need 6 or 3 days between sessions.

Weight seems to be climbing steadily, but not too fast. 225 should be right around the corner.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
You must have had one hell of a pull day. That's good though. Think food on your rest days. I know you're watching total calories, but eating now will store energy for your next workout. And with any luck it'll keep you fueled enough that next time you'll only need 6 or 3 days between sessions.

Yeah exactly SF, this is what I am thinking about. I am just hoping that my body responds well when I dont experience an extreme amount of negative traces and I maybe training heavy again in 3 days. But my body should slowly adjust. And depending on the workout intensity, well see what happens with my DOMS. This system is truly remarkable SF---I dont know how you stumbled upon it. Its only a few paragraphs in Supertraining. When I flipped to it I was like DAMN how did he manage to pull this outta here!? LOL---I am just not good at applying what I read to my workouts thats all.

Yeah I know I am watching total # of calories but I need to have enough fuel for my next pull session, hitting up rack deads and most likely---going for 555x1. :eek::eek:


Weight seems to be climbing steadily, but not too fast. 225 should be right around the corner.

Hey thanks a lot for the support SF, appreciate it man. I hope that 225, semi-lean pounds are around the corner. I could get up to 225 lbs. without a problem in a few days, but it would be flab. I want to stay at a decent bf%. Maybe around 12-13%. So my abs are visible and I have no gut whatsoever.

Saturday Fever
11-17-2002, 12:55 PM
I am just hoping that my body responds well when I dont experience an extreme amount of negative traces and I maybe training heavy again in 3 days.


If you do Pull today, and your body says Pull in 3 days, your body will be able to handle it. So far I've had 3 and 6 day rest periods and each time when I come back, either way, it just "feels" like the right time to be back. Your body won't lie to you, just be sure to take everything into account. Not just DOMS, but how do you "feel"? Do you feel worn down and beaten? Keep tabs on everything. You'll do fine, you always do.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
If you do Pull today, and your body says Pull in 3 days, your body will be able to handle it. So far I've had 3 and 6 day rest periods and each time when I come back, either way, it just "feels" like the right time to be back. Your body won't lie to you, just be sure to take everything into account. Not just DOMS, but how do you "feel"? Do you feel worn down and beaten? Keep tabs on everything. You'll do fine, you always do.

Thanks for the kind words SF---and yeah I know exactly what youre saying about your body not lying to you. A lot of times I wake up in the morning and I want to go to the gym so damn badly but its not my 'scheduled' time to train so I dont. Kinda stupid I guess. This isnt everyday by any means, I am just saying. Yeah I know general sense of well-being is always a good indicator. If youre a more irritable or even moody or miserable, thats usually a negative trace, correct?

Saturday Fever
11-17-2002, 01:04 PM
If it lasts past my morning cup of coffee, I take it to be due to a workout. :)

Broken Arrow
11-17-2002, 01:05 PM
seems like your diet stinks, you only got 2 actual meals coming in, and one is a cheat meal tuttut bad bad bad...

MonStar
11-17-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
If it lasts past my morning cup of coffee, I take it to be due to a workout. :)

Haha yeah thats what I am thinking. Oh well. Hopefully Ill get to know my body a lot better with this system of recovery. Well see what happens.

MonStar
11-17-2002, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Broken Arrow
seems like your diet stinks, you only got 2 actual meals coming in, and one is a cheat meal tuttut bad bad bad...

Haha thanks for checking out my journal man, yeah I know my diet sucks. Its all good though so far it hasnt negatively affected me so I have no real reason to change it. Everything is going well if you ask me. Just my personal opinion of course. As long as I am getting enough calories thats all that really matters to me. :):)

Broken Arrow
11-17-2002, 01:18 PM
3500 calories? I would aim a bit higher for a your weight...

MonStar
11-17-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Broken Arrow
3500 calories? I would aim a bit higher for a your weight...

I dont know BA, I must have a rather slow metabolism because right at 3500 calories thats about where I slowly gain weight. Around 3500 on training days and around 3000 on non-training days. I am around 210 lbs. right now too. So its at right around 16.5 x my BW on training days which isnt too bad. 13-15 x BW is to maintain your weight generally. I dont know, well see what happens.

Broken Arrow
11-17-2002, 01:37 PM
True, I have a quite the fast metabolism. Whatever suits you bro, just I would recommend replace all those supplements with real foods, and real foods that don't include fast food. Also your fruits and veggies are lagging, unless you forgot to add them.

What's up with the weight difference at home and the gym?

MonStar
11-17-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Broken Arrow
True, I have a quite the fast metabolism. Whatever suits you bro, just I would recommend replace all those supplements with real foods, and real foods that don't include fast food. Also your fruits and veggies are lagging, unless you forgot to add them.

I dont know BA, my last priority right now is cleaning up my diet. Fast food isnt a healthy choice I know---but its convenient, and my only priority right now is an ample amount of calories. If for some reason my strength / size / development gains come to a screeching halt, maybe Ill consider re-evaluating what I am doing. But at this point I have no reason to change anything. Thanks for the tips though, appreciate it.


What's up with the weight difference at home and the gym?

LOL---dont ask me man. Time difference is about ~30-45 minutes which isnt enough time to make an appreciable difference. I am assuming that my home scale, which is electronic, is down a bit. Because the gym scale and the scale at my work are both pretty damn close. Just an observation. I usually just take an average of my weight at home and at the gym.

Broken Arrow
11-17-2002, 02:09 PM
Urghh, I had electronic scales. I weigh myself, than go take a pee, go back on, and I gain a whole 2 lbs? :shoot: It's unreliable...

kimpy225
11-17-2002, 02:16 PM
*brings out blow torch*
prepare... to be... BLOWN AWAY MY FRIEND
:ninja:
BRING IT or fall back private!

MonStar
11-17-2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Broken Arrow
Urghh, I had electronic scales. I weigh myself, than go take a pee, go back on, and I gain a whole 2 lbs? :shoot: It's unreliable...

Yeah sometimes they can be a b*tch. The one that I have is usually pretty reliable I mean my weight doesnt jump too much on that scale I dont think, well see how things go. I really want to get up to a semi-lean 225 lbs. in the future. That would be great. Well see what happens. Thanks for chiming in BA. Appreciate it man.

Silverback
11-17-2002, 04:45 PM
Im with you on the 3500 cals a day that was my bulking figure, i found whatever was making me gain 1-2lbs per week was just fine n dandy with me.

Yeah im on the CKD alright start of my 3rd week tommorow. I like it don't know how much better it is than conventional diets but, it is different and that suits me fine. Ive put alot of effort into making it work and the fat is shifting, tbh i dont carry alot of fat but my hips seem to take the brunt of it (damn mothers genetics :) ).

When i get down to 180 i think i will bulk again, maybe not as intense this time because i couldn't handle the weight i was putting on, i.e. strength was not running parralell to size, which is not what i want, strength is equally as important to me.

Also being a P-T personal trainer requires a good image and the bulky look will not get me extra customers sadly :(.

Good luck with your training, i'll be a regular viewer and poster once again as my degree now allows some more freetime, with the recent completion of essays. later bruv

B-R

MonStar
11-17-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Im with you on the 3500 cals a day that was my bulking figure, i found whatever was making me gain 1-2lbs per week was just fine n dandy with me.

Yeah im on the CKD alright start of my 3rd week tommorow. I like it don't know how much better it is than conventional diets but, it is different and that suits me fine. Ive put alot of effort into making it work and the fat is shifting, tbh i dont carry alot of fat but my hips seem to take the brunt of it (damn mothers genetics :) ).

Yeah 3500 calories on training days is about right for me so far. Well see what happens. As I slowly gain weight I might need to bump that figure up a little bit, I am not sure yet obviously. Good luck with the CKD BR, hopefully youll be okay with that man. Good diet. I used to swear by it a long time ago. Nice for burning off fat.


When i get down to 180 i think i will bulk again, maybe not as intense this time because i couldn't handle the weight i was putting on, i.e. strength was not running parralell to size, which is not what i want, strength is equally as important to me.

Also being a P-T personal trainer requires a good image and the bulky look will not get me extra customers sadly :(.

Good luck with your training, i'll be a regular viewer and poster once again as my degree now allows some more freetime, with the recent completion of essays. later bruv

B-R

Thanks a lot for the support BR, seriously. And good job becoming a PT---thats always a nice position to have. I enjoy helping people who come into my supplement store with fat-loss, muscle gaining, etc. Its all good. Yeah Ill be sure to frequent your journal too on a regular basis. Please keep it updated!

Deca Devil
11-18-2002, 01:58 AM
Good luck with getting to 225lbs naturally that would be awesome :)

Just don't get stuck on putting on weight just for the sake of it...it is real easy to do (i know :( )

Good leg strength as well considering you only take short rest periods.....Squats normally take me 20 mins just for them :eek:

Keep up the good work MS.

Peace

DD

MonStar
11-18-2002, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Deca Devil
Good luck with getting to 225lbs naturally that would be awesome :)

Hey thanks a lot DD. Yeah getting to 225 lbs. natural and pretty LEAN, would be awesome. Anyone can get up to a flabby 225 obviously. I dont want to have a gut at 225. Thats why I am taking my time getting up to that weight. Well see what happens. Thanks for the support.


Just don't get stuck on putting on weight just for the sake of it...it is real easy to do (i know :( )

Good leg strength as well considering you only take short rest periods.....Squats normally take me 20 mins just for them :eek:

Keep up the good work MS.

Peace

DD

Thanks for the comments about my leg session. Yeah my workouts are always extremely brief. I dont even know why. I rest just about as long as I feel like I need to then jump into the next exercise real fast. I just dont like standing around at the gym talking and carrying on, etc. It always gets on my nerves when people do that. Oh well.

MonStar
11-18-2002, 09:49 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 6
Monday, 11-18-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel pretty good today I think. I dont work or have school or go to the gym so its all good. Damn I am not working out again for a while. Lets see I am scheduled to do my pull session on Thursday morning. Jeez thats another 3 days. Thats 5 friggin' rest days! Body must have been f*cked up from my pull session last time, damn. I am scheduled to train chest again most likely again on Saturday. And well see about legs I am not sure yet. Theyre honestly not as sore as my upper body was. Strange.

PAIN/SORENESS
Chest is still aching, pretty damn badly. Legs are still hurting too, ow. Glutes and thighs are both hurting. Triceps have some mild DOMS but nothing too extreme. My DOMS has been lasting a while for each musclegroup, jeez.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Meal 1: Meso-tech MRP + 2% milk + ice-cream, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 2: 1 Wendy's small frosty, 1 Wendy's cheeseburger, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 3: 1 Fast break bar
Meal 4: 2 Taco Bell supreme beef gorditas, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 5: whole milk, crispy m&ms candy
Meal 6: skim milk

Estimated Calories: ~3000

TRAINING---REST
N/A.

TRAINING LENGTH
N/A.

SLEEP
8 hours

WEIGHT
208.5 lbs. (home)

MISCELLANEOUS
Glad that today is a rest day my chest and all that is friggin' killing me oh my God. Aching pretty damn badly. Sleep last night was good I think. Got 8 hours of sleep which is definitely a good thing if you ask me. Weight this morning on the scale was pretty good too. Getting closer to 210 lbs. where hopefully Ill hover for a little bit. Well see what happens.

Saturday Fever
11-18-2002, 12:59 PM
I'm not due back in the gym until Friday and Saturday. Just happened to hit hard with the power days. That's ok, I'll just eat everything in sight.

Otter
11-18-2002, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Unfortunately I wont be doing another 'Pull' session until next Thursday. I was sore from Thursday-Saturday so thats (3) days, and (3)*(3)=9. So then I end up training Pull on Thursday.

According to my equation, I'd say you should pull on Wedensday at 8:53 p.m.:D

MonStar
11-18-2002, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I'm not due back in the gym until Friday and Saturday. Just happened to hit hard with the power days. That's ok, I'll just eat everything in sight.

Yeah I do really think that this system focuses on optimal recovery which is obviously important. If youre body in all honestly is not ready to get back into the gym then there is no reason that you should force it to. At least I dont think. Just my $.02. I am hoping for some excellent results when I get back into the gym on Thursday. :):)

MonStar
11-18-2002, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Otter
According to my equation, I'd say you should pull on Wedensday at 8:53 p.m.:D

Thanks for chiming in Otter, great post man. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

In the future please dont waste your time posting such meaningless posts in my journal, thanks.

Otter
11-18-2002, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
In the future please dont waste your time posting such meaningless posts in my journal, thanks.

It's not meaningless, it's only as silly as that rest equation you are using.

I'm merely pointing out that it's better to go by what your body tells you, not by what some guy (who is completely unaware of YOUR body, genetics, intensity level, etc...) wrote in a book.

MonStar
11-18-2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Otter
It's not meaningless, it's only as silly as that rest equation you are using.

I'm merely pointing out that it's better to go by what your body tells you, not by what some guy (who is completely unaware of YOUR body, genetics, intensity level, etc...) wrote in a book.

Were all entitled to our opinion I guess huh? Its all good though Otter. I am going to try and use this system as a way of listening to my body. I usually follow a scheduled split which is what I am trying to get away from thats all. Its fine that you dont agree with it but you can please state that once, and not again and again.

Saturday Fever
11-18-2002, 01:37 PM
Or Otter can post his own extensive research results that invalidate Zatsiorsky's model of training. It's not like he just sat down at the table and thought, "You know, I'm going to make this up and have it published in Human Kinetics." It was researched, on numerous persons. Don't use genetics as a cheap "out." Yes we are all genetically unique, but yes we are all made of the same stuff and function the same way. Part of the reason Supertraining is such a great book, other than great research done, is that it doesn't have an easy out. It doesn't claim that things are only true if you meet certain criteria, or do something else at the same time. It's based on science.

I'll be waiting to see your extensive research and publication rivaling the work done by Zatsiorsky.

Otter
11-18-2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I'll be waiting to see your extensive research and publication rivaling the work done by Zatsiorsky.

I do my own research every day, every workout. I don't need to buy into each bit of "science" that someone studies when they're out to make a buck.

Regardless of the fact that we're all made up of the same stuff and essentially function the same way, NOTHING can be so generalized in this sport as to say 3 * X number of days you are sore is the optimal rest period. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't care who writes what with regards to lifting, the best research is done BY YOURSELF ON YOURSELF. It is and always will be the best measure of the effectiveness or lack thereof of a particular idea.

Saturday Fever
11-18-2002, 03:25 PM
I'd be interested to hear what monetary gains Zatsiorsky intended to make. Don't let your lack of understanding get in the way of learning.

MonStar
11-18-2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Or Otter can post his own extensive research results that invalidate Zatsiorsky's model of training. It's not like he just sat down at the table and thought, "You know, I'm going to make this up and have it published in Human Kinetics." It was researched, on numerous persons. Don't use genetics as a cheap "out." Yes we are all genetically unique, but yes we are all made of the same stuff and function the same way. Part of the reason Supertraining is such a great book, other than great research done, is that it doesn't have an easy out. It doesn't claim that things are only true if you meet certain criteria, or do something else at the same time. It's based on science.

I'll be waiting to see your extensive research and publication rivaling the work done by Zatsiorsky.

I am going to have to agree here SF. Genetics do play a role I will agree with that. But too many people cop out with the bullsh*t excuse, 'we have different genetics---so what works for me definitely wont work for you.' Okay genetics play a role yes, but that doesnt mean that there are no general principles. For example squats generally will work well for the majority of people, etc. These are generalizations that for the most part ring true.

Supertraining contains a really good amount of knowledge, and for the most part I think that Supertraining is very accurate.

MonStar
11-18-2002, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Otter
I do my own research every day, every workout. I don't need to buy into each bit of "science" that someone studies when they're out to make a buck.

Regardless of the fact that we're all made up of the same stuff and essentially function the same way, NOTHING can be so generalized in this sport as to say 3 * X number of days you are sore is the optimal rest period. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't care who writes what with regards to lifting, the best research is done BY YOURSELF ON YOURSELF. It is and always will be the best measure of the effectiveness or lack thereof of a particular idea.

Youre correct in saying that bodybuilding is a very individual sport. Youll know your body more than anyone else. But that doesnt mean that there are not certain things that can be said. For example most people cannot train a bodypart every single day and expect to grow. Things like that can generally be said without a disagreement. And badmouthing Supertraining is just ridiculous. The book is filled with information. All of the biomechanics behind working out, etc.

MonStar
11-18-2002, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I'd be interested to hear what monetary gains Zatsiorsky intended to make. Don't let your lack of understanding get in the way of learning.

Good point SF. Seriously, nicely said. :thumbup::thumbup:

Saturday Fever
11-18-2002, 03:35 PM
I'm not arguing this in your journal anymore. If it must continue, there are other places for it.

But I will say that genetics are largely misunderstood. Muscles contract the same way in every human being. The shape of the muscle may be unique, but that has no effect on how the muscle contracts. As such, every muscle in every person will fatigue the exact same way, be it neural fatigue, peripheral fatigue, short fatigue, etc. This is not genetic, this is being human. As such, with fatigue being a constant, you have to explain how genetics play a role to disqualify Zatsiorsky's Model of Training.

MonStar
11-18-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I'm not arguing this in your journal anymore. If it must continue, there are other places for it.

But I will say that genetics are largely misunderstood. Muscles contract the same way in every human being. The shape of the muscle may be unique, but that has no effect on how the muscle contracts. As such, every muscle in every person will fatigue the exact same way, be it neural fatigue, peripheral fatigue, short fatigue, etc. This is not genetic, this is being human. As such, with fatigue being a constant, you have to explain how genetics play a role to disqualify Zatsiorsky's Model of Training.

Awesome point here SF, damn, impressive. You bring up a very interesting topic though. Every single person's muscles contract the exact same way. Not any different. Every persons chest contracts the same way, biceps contract the same way, etc. Regardless of genetics that will never change. Rows will always work your lats/biceps, etc.

Thanks SF for trying to keep the debates out of my journal. Sometimes I dont mind it but a lot of times its a bit excessive.

Saturday Fever
11-18-2002, 03:47 PM
I figure if it spans more than one page, it needs to be taken elsewhere. :)

MonStar
11-18-2002, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I figure if it spans more than one page, it needs to be taken elsewhere. :)

Yeah SF exactly man. I still cant get over the next time that I am training man its friggin' insane. I train Pull on Thursday, and then I train Push on Saturday. I am not sure when I train legs yet. Either Sunday or Friday---not sure at this point. Thats going to be a bit strange isnt it?

What should I do in this case? Thursday is Pull and Saturday is Push no matter what. When it comes to Legs they might be Friday. Is this going to be a problem? Working out 3 days in a row?

Saturday Fever
11-19-2002, 12:07 AM
I've run days in a row on this method and it didn't seem to affect my workouts. Just roll with it.

The Calvinator
11-19-2002, 06:56 AM
i have gone 6 days in a row before :thumbup:

MonStar
11-19-2002, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I've run days in a row on this method and it didn't seem to affect my workouts. Just roll with it.

Okay SF, just making sure that there is no problems there. I didnt think that there were going to be then again, sometimes things can be confusing. I didnt think that three days in a row was that big of a deal but I usually just dont go over two days in a row that the only reason that I am asking.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by The Calvinator
i have gone 6 days in a row before :thumbup:

:eek::eek: Damn man thats a lot of friggin' days in a row. Back in the day when I used to train high-volume I believe that I used to train 6 days in a row too. Dont ask me why haha, looking back I didnt make good gains at all then.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 07:28 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 7
Tuesday, 11-19-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel pretty good today I think, I dont know. I have two classes today which I honestly dont feel like going to. Actually these are the classes that I mind the least so I shouldnt be complaining. I also feel like I completely reconnected with my girlfriend last night. :angel::angel: Thats always a good thing. Anyway I train Pull on Thursday, and then I train Legs on Sunday. But Push---I dont know yet. My chest is still sore!! I am hoping that Ill train Push sometime in the next 5-6 days haha. My pecs just dont friggin' recover!

PAIN/SORENESS
Pecs are still aching. Arms feel fine and everything else feels fine but my pecs are still aching pretty badly. Not sure what the problem is. Legs are still a LITTLE sore, nothing major though. So that took my legs around 3 days to recover without any negative traces. So Legs will be trained on Sunday.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Meal 1: Meso-tech MRP + 2% milk + ice-cream, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 2: 1 Wendy's small frosty, 1 Wendy's cheeseburger, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 3: 2 bags frito-lay chips
Meal 4: 2 Taco Bell supreme beef gorditas, multi-vitamin/mineral, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 5: m&m candy
Meal 6: whole milk

Estimated Calories: ~3000

TRAINING---REST
N/A.

TRAINING LENGTH
N/A.

SLEEP
7 hours

WEIGHT
209 lbs. (home)

MISCELLANEOUS
Slept pretty well last night I think I dont know. Didnt wake up at all which is obviously a good thing. Weight this morning was 209 lbs. which is good too. Trying to get that last pound to hover around 210 lbs. for a bit. Well see what happens. Been trying to pretty much religiously eat ~3000 calories per day.

The Calvinator
11-19-2002, 09:36 AM
dont go to class, i dont!!!:alcoholic

Saturday Fever
11-19-2002, 11:10 AM
209 at home? That's got to be close to 220 at the gym doesn't it? Awesome!

MonStar
11-19-2002, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by The Calvinator
dont go to class, i dont!!!:alcoholic

LOL I have to go to class man. Most of my classes I really dont like, but I force myself to go anyways. I have every single class with my girlfriend which makes the classes a LOT more enjoyable. I cant imagine us having different schedules. That would probably make me skip a lot more classes. She keeps me in line.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
209 at home? That's got to be close to 220 at the gym doesn't it? Awesome!

Hey thanks a lot for the post SF. Yeah youre right around 209 lbs. at home = 218-221 lbs. at the gym. Something close to that at least. Crazy the difference of scales. So chances are I am weighing around 215 lbs. right now. Or something along those lines. Hoping to get to around 226-229 lbs. at the gym. And maybe 215-219 lbs. at my house. That way Ill be a good 225 lbs.

The Calvinator
11-19-2002, 02:19 PM
just tell your g/f to pick up the assingments for you and sign your name on the attendance sheet.

Silverback
11-19-2002, 02:23 PM
Go to class man, you'll probably learn something, i try and make 99% of mine, it teaches you so much, i have definately grown as a person since starting at uni.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by The Calvinator
just tell your g/f to pick up the assingments for you and sign your name on the attendance sheet.

LOL I dont think so man. The lectures are actually what I learn from. I have done this a few times in the past and seriously regretted it afterwards. You dont gain the same from skipping class and picking up the work, I learned this fast.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Go to class man, you'll probably learn something, i try and make 99% of mine, it teaches you so much, i have definately grown as a person since starting at uni.

Yeah I try to make about 99% of my classes as well. Sometimes I miss one here or there, or I am just friggin' lazy. But for the most part I try to make sure I always go. Pretty stupid not to go unless you have a really really good reason. Which I rarely do to be honest. Oh well. Thanks for chiming in BR.

Silverback
11-19-2002, 02:38 PM
Just wanted to dip in, i realised you didn't work out today but latched ono the college conversation.

ps are you going to get some 2003 goals up soon? look forward to reading them.

B-R

MonStar
11-19-2002, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Just wanted to dip in, i realised you didn't work out today but latched ono the college conversation.

ps are you going to get some 2003 goals up soon? look forward to reading them.

B-R

Um, as to my goals for 2003---I basically dont have any. Well Ill make up some predictions right now but for the most part I am just striving to increase a bit every single workout. Not focus as much on anything else. I am using the equation for recovery found in Supertraining which I think is really going to help up my size and strength. Well see what happens.

Here are some rough goals for the next 6 months:

Incline Barbell Presses: 275x3
Lying Barbell Extensions (to neck): 205x3
Bentover Overhand Barbell Rows: 275x3
Standing Barbell Curls: 155x3
Rack Deadlifts: 585x1
Squats: 455x3
Good Mornings: 315x3

:thumbup::thumbup:

Silverback
11-19-2002, 03:22 PM
Nice attainable goals there mike, all i can say is woah to the BB curl goal, that sort of thing only happens in dreams to me oh and getting a bit of nookie off J-LO :D

You must get some serious looks of amazement in the gym, you definately would at my gym.

B-R

Saturday Fever
11-19-2002, 03:24 PM
155 is definitely solid, I think if I gave a 1RM a shot on curls I'd probly hit somewhere in the neighborhood of 135ish. Maybe someday I'll do that just for fun. Good goals Mike. But you forgot one. It also happens to be my top goal.

To keep getting better. :)

MonStar
11-19-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Nice attainable goals there mike, all i can say is woah to the BB curl goal, that sort of thing only happens in dreams to me oh and getting a bit of nookie off J-LO :D

You must get some serious looks of amazement in the gym, you definately would at my gym.

B-R

Thanks a lot for the support BR. I would love to hit all of those goals in the next 3 months. Theyre nothing real serious I would just enjoy attaining them. Its not for any reason really. Not for a competition or anything is what I am trying to say. I would love to shoot past 275 on inclines but theyre a b*tch to get super strong in it seems like. I tend to get some pretty crazy stares at my gym, LOL. I workout first thing in the morning with a bunch of elderly people so theyre always looking at me funny.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
155 is definitely solid, I think if I gave a 1RM a shot on curls I'd probly hit somewhere in the neighborhood of 135ish. Maybe someday I'll do that just for fun. Good goals Mike. But you forgot one. It also happens to be my top goal.

To keep getting better. :)

Yeah I dont know well see what happens. My BB curl strength right now is probably at around 135 lbs. for a double or triple. Well see what its at on Thursday morning I guess. I try to make sure I dont use too much body English either. Yeah I am trying to keep getting better. Bigger, stronger, and more knowledgeable. Those are my main goals.

Brittany1016
11-19-2002, 04:11 PM
Hey baby! Keep up the good work...this is Cooper speakin'! :p

The Calvinator
11-19-2002, 04:20 PM
i was just messin about the class, i know you should go, it is good for you. and i hate it that my g/f and i have the opposite schedule thing going on. ah well, such is life. i think you will be able to do more than 275x3 on incline bench in the next 6 months, dont sell yourself short herrrrrre

MonStar
11-19-2002, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Brittany1016
Hey baby! Keep up the good work...this is Cooper speakin'! :p

Thanks sexy... I cant wait for our 2-year anniversary tomorrow! This is Ralphy speakin'! ;);)

MonStar
11-19-2002, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by The Calvinator
i was just messin about the class, i know you should go, it is good for you. and i hate it that my g/f and i have the opposite schedule thing going on. ah well, such is life. i think you will be able to do more than 275x3 on incline bench in the next 6 months, dont sell yourself short herrrrrre

Good point about the incline presses C. I should have said the next 3 months because thats really what I have in mind. Certainly not the next 6. In the next 6 months I really would love to achieve a 315x3 incline and 315x3 bentover BB row. I hope that my bentover rowing strength really goes up. None of this 225x6 bullsh*t that I am doing now.

WillKuenzel
11-19-2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
I hope that my bentover rowing strength really goes up. None of this 225x6 bullsh*t that I am doing now.
Hey, no knocking on that, that's what I do. 225x6 isn't that bad considering I don't see anybody else in my gym even doing more than 135x4. In comparision to 'ol BCC though it does seem a little low.

What's the time frame for that goal? Maybe a little competition will help us get there faster. Race ya there?

Goals looking solid man.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by HomeYield
Hey, no knocking on that, that's what I do. 225x6 isn't that bad considering I don't see anybody else in my gym even doing more than 135x4. In comparision to 'ol BCC though it does seem a little low.

What's the time frame for that goal? Maybe a little competition will help us get there faster. Race ya there?

Goals looking solid man.

Yeah exactly. Compared to BCC and Belial who are rowing 75+ lbs. more than that, its a shame. LOL. Yeah 225x6 is more than anyone in my gym too so its all good. I feel like becoming the strongest in my gym was no real task, now one of the strongest here at WBB---thats impressive. Anyway HY yeah we can definitely have a competition for BB rows. That would be great. Maybe for a few lifts. I am not sure what other lifts you do that I do---but just for BB rows for now. First one to 275x3. Sound okay to you?

By the way there was no time frame for my goals... ASAP. :D:D

EDIT: I looked in your journal HY and the only exericises that we really have in common that we can compete for are friggin' bentover rows, and thats close to it. I do incline BB, you do flat, you do dips, which I cant do anymore, you do DB presses for delts, I dont do any OH presses. I didnt see squats in your journal. LOL. Ever done rack pulls? Basically just deadlifts from knee level? Around knee level or 1-2" lower. Where ever the pins in the power rack fall. I would love some competition in rack pulls.

Frozenmoses
11-19-2002, 08:25 PM
Uh, I'd love to participate in your rowing competition, but seeing as I am teh suq, can I be your waterboy?

MonStar
11-19-2002, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Frozenmoses
Uh, I'd love to participate in your rowing competition, but seeing as I am teh suq, can I be your waterboy?

LOL---dont worry about it FM. Its all good man, seriously. Youll catch up in no time. It seems that lately we have gathered some pretty strong guys here at WBB. Rather recently The Calvinator, eclips1, HomeYield, and a few others have created journals. So its great competition to try and run with the big dogs. Again man, dont sweat it. Youll be as strong as us or stronger in no time.

Frozenmoses
11-19-2002, 08:32 PM
I hope you're right man. I need to just suck it up and quit cutting. I want to get to 200 so bad, but I hate struggling with my bf%.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Frozenmoses
I hope you're right man. I need to just suck it up and quit cutting. I want to get to 200 so bad, but I hate struggling with my bf%.

I am right, seriously, just hang in there man and youll gain lots of size & strength while youre here at WBB. Stick around though man, thats one word of advice I can give ya. I drifted away from WBB for a little while a few years back and what a mistake!! I came back in no time. Yeah man, stop cutting! You wont gain strength without a surplus of calories man. You know better than that.

Struggling with bf% is a b*tch isnt it? I always try to keep my abs visible.

shredder
11-19-2002, 09:06 PM
hey if you guys are haveing a bb row race then count me in, even tho i have a weak sorry ass row strength. 200lbs would be my goal for it :)

WillKuenzel
11-19-2002, 09:54 PM
Sweet, got some people getting in on this. Frozen, man, you'll get in there in no time. Like MonStar said, WBB is a great place to learn and the more you know the stronger and bigger you'll get. You never know, you may catch up a lot quicker than you think.

MonStar, when you do rack pulls, about where is the bar when you pull? Should it be right at the knee's, or a little below or above?

MonStar
11-19-2002, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by shredder
hey if you guys are haveing a bb row race then count me in, even tho i have a weak sorry ass row strength. 200lbs would be my goal for it :)

Alright shredder, well definitely count you in. No doubt about it. Good luck with it too. I dont think that it should matter much if its over/underhand grip. As long as its full ROM, and at least GOOD form. I dont mean some half-a*sed thrust clean here. I mean a good ROM, good form, bentover BB row. Pulling to waist or sternum, whichever you prefer.

Glad to count you in man! :):)

MonStar
11-19-2002, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by HomeYield
Sweet, got some people getting in on this. Frozen, man, you'll get in there in no time. Like MonStar said, WBB is a great place to learn and the more you know the stronger and bigger you'll get. You never know, you may catch up a lot quicker than you think.

Agreed. WBB is a great place to learn. I have no idea how much I have gained from this site alone. Loads and loads of information here. Hopefully WBB will be around for a long, long, time. I can see myself posting here 10 years down the road. Haha, I know that sounds crazy, but I cannot imagine not having a place to keep my journal, and discuss bodybuilding.


MonStar, when you do rack pulls, about where is the bar when you pull? Should it be right at the knee's, or a little below or above?

Okay some facts about rack pulls / rack deadlifts. First of all I use a mixed grip. One hand overhand, and one hand underhand. If you have never used this grip (I am sure you have but..) its a big awkward at first. But youll quickly realize how much stronger you are with a mixed grip. Also rack pulls must be done with no straps! Bare hands and chalk. Thats all! This is important because straps can make a lift like this a helluva lot easier. Second of all the lift is done from knee level, or a bit lower. Definitely not near the top of the knee at all. Either at the bottom of the kneecap (which is right around where the bar is for me) is an inch lower maybe. Dont get me wrong its a partial deadlift, but its not a static hold at all.

Hopefully this cleared up any confusion. I really hope that you give them a shot and like them HY. I am sure youll be able to go extremely heavy. Looking forward to seeing what kinda weights youre throwing around. They take a little while to get used to. So dont expect to jump to 4-5 plates on each side just yet.

Saturday Fever
11-19-2002, 10:56 PM
Rack pulls are to deadlifts what board press is to bench. It's a great exercise for strengthening a specific ROM. They hammer hams and glutes and whatnot very well. If you hate deadlifts I'd recommend them anytime.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Rack pulls are to deadlifts what board press is to bench. It's a great exercise for strengthening a specific ROM. They hammer hams and glutes and whatnot very well. If you hate deadlifts I'd recommend them anytime.

LOL---you summed it up pretty damn good SF! Nice work man. Haha. If you hate deadlifts, then there you go. Well I friggin' HATE full ROM deadlifts. Cannot stand the f*ckin' things. Oh well. I can handle more weight with rack pulls, and I feel it more in my midback than regular deads. From a bodybuilding perspective I think that rack deadlifts are FAR superior to full ROM deadlifts anyway. I honestly dont feel rack pulls in my hams/glutes that much. More in my traps, grip, and midback. Just my experience. Depends on how you do them I guess.

Always from knee level or a little below.

ectx
11-19-2002, 11:06 PM
Cool that you guys are starting a competition. Unfortunately I'm still a bit too weak to be hanging with you guys....that and I don't do barbell rows...I do dumb bell rows. Blargh...give me time. hehe. Anyhow, the new journal's looking great Mike.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by ectx
Cool that you guys are starting a competition. Unfortunately I'm still a bit too weak to be hanging with you guys....that and I don't do barbell rows...I do dumb bell rows. Blargh...give me time. hehe. Anyhow, the new journal's looking great Mike.

Thanks for chiming in ectx, appreciate it man, seriously. LOL you can compete with Belial on the one-arm DB rows. Haha, trying to compete with 185 lbs. in each friggin' arm is going to be a b*tch though. Anyway yeah maybe if you start doing BB rows in the future you can jump in the competition. I know that for me its going to be great motivation to try and up my strength on BB rows rather quickly. Hehe, I am definitely competitive.

Thanks for the support.

Saturday Fever
11-19-2002, 11:10 PM
They're a good exercise. From a bodybuilding perspective I don't know that they're any better than full deadlifts but they're certainly not worse. It's more about keeping an ample load on the muscles. But it's a great lift. And 545 is an assload of weight, whether it starts at your knees or not.

Otter
11-19-2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Also rack pulls must be done with no straps! Bare hands and chalk. Thats all! This is important because straps can make a lift like this a helluva lot easier.

Depends what you're trying to work. If you're doing partials to work your grip, then sure, leave the straps alone. But if you're working your back, why would you let your grip prevent you from using more weight?

MonStar
11-19-2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
They're a good exercise. From a bodybuilding perspective I don't know that they're any better than full deadlifts but they're certainly not worse. It's more about keeping an ample load on the muscles. But it's a great lift. And 545 is an assload of weight, whether it starts at your knees or not.

Yeah I think that theyre a good movement. The main reason that I feel theyre better for bodybuilding purposes is quite simple. First of all they fit in with back day. Full ROM deadlifts really dont fit anywhere. I mean its tough to get them in without overtraining your lower back. Second of all I feel rack pulls in my midback area more, where full ROM deads I feel completely in my lower back and hamstrings, etc. Yeah 545x1 was decent I think. I am most likely going to shoot for 555x1 Thursday morning. Well see what happens.

MonStar
11-19-2002, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Otter
Depends what you're trying to work. If you're doing partials to work your grip, then sure, leave the straps alone. But if you're working your back, why would you let your grip prevent you from using more weight?

I have just never liked the idea of straps. Youre substituting for a lack of grip strength more or less. Doesnt make sense when it bodybuilding and weight-training youre shooting for more strength. If I could eliminate my triceps from bench presses to overload my pecs more---I wouldnt do that either. Its just taking away from the lift. Bench presses hit your chest and triceps (and front delts), rack deads, and deads, hit your traps, lower back, grip, etc. In my experience using straps has weakened my grip. When I dropped the straps my grip was a joke.

Otter
11-19-2002, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
I have just never liked the idea of straps. Youre substituting for a lack of grip strength more or less. Doesnt make sense when it bodybuilding and weight-training youre shooting for more strength.

Right. So let's assume that you could handle more weight by using straps. If the MAIN goal of partials is to hammer your back, wouldn't it reason that you'd want to use the maximum weight your back could handle? Why limit the potential of your traps, erectors, and lower back because you're concerned about developing a nice grip?

WillKuenzel
11-19-2002, 11:46 PM
I use straps on some of my lifts. Mostly the heaviest just because I know my grip is going to fail first. Your back muscles are quite a bit bigger than your forearms. The smaller muscles will go first.

If I can do 2 pull-ups before my grip falls but my back could do 6, my back's definitely not going to get the work it needs. Those larger muscles will wait for the smaller ones to develop. They'll get strong enough in a hurry to handle what your grip takes weeks to handle.

I'm not saying straps are great, I'm just advocating them like any other piece of fitness equipment. They serve their purpose.

I just think of them as way to help isolate a muscle group without thinking about any others.

The Calvinator
11-20-2002, 01:13 AM
well, when i was using 455 for reps on barbell shrugs, i needed straps. but now they irratate my AC joints. I used to think that people who used straps just had weak forearms. to each his own

Just some girl
11-20-2002, 02:12 AM
just a question (to anyone who knows) because im curious...may be very naive sounding...is grip strength all about the forearms? or is there more to it than that? can't there also be some element of just discomfort in your hands in holding the weight that limits grip strength too? that probably sounds really stupid, or maybe just ceases to apply once you've build up gigantic callouses on your hands or whatever, but....just wonderin'.

MonStar
11-20-2002, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Otter
Right. So let's assume that you could handle more weight by using straps. If the MAIN goal of partials is to hammer your back, wouldn't it reason that you'd want to use the maximum weight your back could handle? Why limit the potential of your traps, erectors, and lower back because you're concerned about developing a nice grip?

I guess everyone's opnion differs. But in my opinion straps are worthless. Its about grip strength. Rack pulls require a strong grip. Thats half the battle almost. A big bench press requires strong triceps. If you cannot lift the weight on your own, then you cannot lift the weight if you ask me. Just my personal opion.

MonStar
11-20-2002, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by HomeYield
I use straps on some of my lifts. Mostly the heaviest just because I know my grip is going to fail first. Your back muscles are quite a bit bigger than your forearms. The smaller muscles will go first.

In my experience when I made sure not to use straps I would generally strengthen my grip rather quickly. For example rack pulls when I frst started doing them 455 was a B*TCH to hold without straps. But now I hardly notice because my grip has become so accustomed to the heavy weights. I think that your grip/forearms will quickly adapt if you dont use straps.


If I can do 2 pull-ups before my grip falls but my back could do 6, my back's definitely not going to get the work it needs. Those larger muscles will wait for the smaller ones to develop. They'll get strong enough in a hurry to handle what your grip takes weeks to handle.

In all honesty though theres no reason that your grip should fail after 2 reps. I mean for the most part unless youre doing static hangs from the bar I cant imagine your grip failing on chinups. Maybe if you use chalk. I have never had a problem with my grip on any exercise except rack pulls. And even there it was fairly quickly remedied by adding chalk, etc.


I'm not saying straps are great, I'm just advocating them like any other piece of fitness equipment. They serve their purpose.

I just think of them as way to help isolate a muscle group without thinking about any others.

I can understand what youre saying about this though HY, seriously. Taking one musclegroup out of the lift I understand the argument. But its just not my opinion that that is right thats all. I dont know why. Its all good.

MonStar
11-20-2002, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by The Calvinator
well, when i was using 455 for reps on barbell shrugs, i needed straps. but now they irratate my AC joints. I used to think that people who used straps just had weak forearms. to each his own

I dont associate people using straps with weak forearms at all. Because they could have very strong forearms/grip and still use straps to take their grip out of the lift. My opinion is simply that once your grip is taken out the equation---youre giving it no incentive to strengthen. Your grip strength obviously would very immediately stagnate using straps. Then when you forgot your straps or decided not to use them anymore---you would have to try and train your grip all over again.

MonStar
11-20-2002, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Just some girl
just a question (to anyone who knows) because im curious...may be very naive sounding...is grip strength all about the forearms? or is there more to it than that? can't there also be some element of just discomfort in your hands in holding the weight that limits grip strength too? that probably sounds really stupid, or maybe just ceases to apply once you've build up gigantic callouses on your hands or whatever, but....just wonderin'.

I definitely feel that it is more than just direct forearm strength. Just a personal opinion. I used to be obsessed with my grip/forearm strength and I was constantly training it in all difference fashions. One of the ways was static holds. They worked well. Another was pinching plates---simply holding two 25 lbs. plates for example (smooth side in) for as long as possible to work my finger flexors. There was also CoC grippers. All of the grip work that I did dramatically fatigued my hands and fingers and wrist even. But rarely my forearms. Thats not to say that grip does not involve forearm strength, but I feel that there is a lot more to grip strength than strong forearms.

MonStar
11-20-2002, 07:36 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 8
Wednesday, 11-20-2002
_______________________________________


Happy 2-Year Anniversary With Brittany!! :angel::angel:

GENERAL COMMENTS
Wow, was a GREAT day. My girlfriend and I have been together 2 years today! I am so excited. Shes my little adorable angel. Nothing in this world means more to me than my sweetie. Today we have English together and then unfortunately I work from 1-7! Oh well. Nothing that I can do about it at this point. Just not get all frustrated and let it ruin my day. Looking forward to my pull session tomorrow morning!! Havnt trained in forever. I do Pull tomorrow morning, Legs on Sunday, and finally Push on Tuesday. Jeez.

PAIN/SORENESS
No more DOMS!! Finally, haha. I was sore every friggin' day forever and today I am finally recovered. Wow.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Meal 1: Lean Body MRP + 2% milk + ice-cream, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 2: soy protein bar, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 3: macaroni & cheese, lemonade spritzer
Meal 4: soda, beef soup, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 5: Atkin's shake
Meal 6: soda, dinner rolls, chicken & fettucini alfredo

Estimated Calories: ~4000

TRAINING---REST
N/A.

TRAINING LENGTH
N/A.

SLEEP
7 hours

WEIGHT
209 lbs. (home)

MISCELLANEOUS
Eh. Slept pretty good last night. Nothing spectacular haha. Weight this morning was good I think. Better than I would have imagined actually. Really really really looking forward to my pull session tomorrow morning, damn. That should go really really well. I am looking to set a new PB in bentover rows, and rack pulls. 235 on rows and 555 on rack pulls. Well see what happens.

BennettBoy
11-20-2002, 07:44 AM
Mike, congrats to you and Brittany on 2 years. :)

Are you allowing more rest days again inbetween training sessions?

NateDogg
11-20-2002, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by BennettBoy
Mike, congrats to you and Brittany on 2 years. :)

:withstupi :D

Otter
11-20-2002, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
No more DOMS!! Finally, haha. I was sore every friggin' day forever and today I am finally recovered.

I hate to belabor this point, but your body is telling you that TODAY is the day you should be lifting, not tomorrow. I've given up trying to ween you from that silly equation, but maybe you'll see that it's better to listen to your own body.

That's the point I've been trying to make with this thing. You go when you're ready.

Ok, that was the last time.:D

MonStar
11-20-2002, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by BennettBoy
Mike, congrats to you and Brittany on 2 years. :)

Are you allowing more rest days again inbetween training sessions?

Thanks a lot BB, appreciate it man. It has been a fun 2 years in all honesty. Great times. :D:D

Yeah I am allowing a bit more time between training sessions to allow my body to full recover before I hit it again. Its actually a quite simple formula. However many days you have DOMS x 3 gives you the # of total recovery days. So that works out both ways. Sometimes I dont rest that long, and sometimes I rest a long friggin' time.

MonStar
11-20-2002, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by NateDogg
:withstupi :D

Thanks a lot ND! Appreciate it man---seriously. :):)

MonStar
11-20-2002, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by Otter
I hate to belabor this point, but your body is telling you that TODAY is the day you should be lifting, not tomorrow. I've given up trying to ween you from that silly equation, but maybe you'll see that it's better to listen to your own body.

That's the point I've been trying to make with this thing. You go when you're ready.

Ok, that was the last time.:D

Yeah I am hoping that this training equation will help me to get to know my body a bit more. I feel like I am ready to train after the DOMS is gone but that is often not the case. For example my biceps rarely get DOMS but that doesnt mean that I should constantly train them I dont think. I dont know Otter everyone has their own opinion. If I dont get the kind of results that I am looking for with this program then Ill consider just trying to listen to my body. Seriously.

WillKuenzel
11-20-2002, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
I looked in your journal HY and the only exericises that we really have in common that we can compete for are friggin' bentover rows, and thats close to it. I do incline BB, you do flat, you do dips, which I cant do anymore, you do DB presses for delts, I dont do any OH presses. I didnt see squats in your journal. LOL. Ever done rack pulls? Basically just deadlifts from knee level? Around knee level or 1-2" lower. Where ever the pins in the power rack fall. I would love some competition in rack pulls. I haven't done squats in a while because I pulled my hamstring. They may be slow coming back up plus my squats never were all that stout to begin with. My legs definitely need lots of work.

I'll definitely try the rack pulls on back day. Hehe, no straps. That would take a little bit out of it. About knee level or just under. We'll see how it goes. You're on man!!

Congrats on 2 years too, to the both of you! That's quite an accomplishment!

MonStar
11-20-2002, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by HomeYield
I haven't done squats in a while because I pulled my hamstring. They may be slow coming back up plus my squats never were all that stout to begin with. My legs definitely need lots of work.

Oh okay HY, yeah pulling your hamstring can be a real pain in the a*s. Thats for damn sure. Good luck with getting back into squats man. I am sure that youll be fine. My legs have always been pretty decent I think. I mean nothing thrilling but never too small for my body or anything like that I dont think.


I'll definitely try the rack pulls on back day. Hehe, no straps. That would take a little bit out of it. About knee level or just under. We'll see how it goes. You're on man!!

Alright HY. When is your back day? So Ill be sure to check out your journal that day and see how your bentover rows and rack pulls are coming along. I am giving them both a shot tomorrow so hopefully Ill be impressed with my strength. Well see what happens. Yeah this is definitely a competition man. Maybe not even for a specific weight but just for the highest rack pull and bentover row by---January 1, 2003 lets say? And then from there depending on where we stand we can set our next time frame. Sound okay? Or would you rather go for weight?


Congrats on 2 years too, to the both of you! That's quite an accomplishment!

Hey thanks a lot for the comments man, appreciate it. Yeah my girlfriend Brittany and I have so much damn fun together. She cracks me up.

WillKuenzel
11-21-2002, 12:01 AM
Back day is on Monday's. Rows first then I'll give some rack pulls a shot. 1/1/2003 sounds good, and we'll play the rest by ear. Good luck man!

MonStar
11-21-2002, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by HomeYield
Back day is on Monday's. Rows first then I'll give some rack pulls a shot. 1/1/2003 sounds good, and we'll play the rest by ear. Good luck man!

Alright HY, its on now man. This is going to be great because I am a pretty competitive person so right from the get go tomorrow morning I am going to go as heavy as my f*cking body allows me to go on BB rows and rack pulls, LOL. Good luck to you too man, seriously. This will most likely (as long as we stay injury free of coruse), help us out a great deal.

WillKuenzel
11-21-2002, 02:22 AM
I'm thinking the same thing. You're up awefully late. Get some sleep if your pulling tomorrow. Hehe.

MonStar
11-21-2002, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by HomeYield
I'm thinking the same thing. You're up awefully late. Get some sleep if your pulling tomorrow. Hehe.

Yeah I stayed at my girlfriend's pretty late last night. Ill be sure to sleep in though so its all good. I am really looking forward to my pull session this morning. Damn I cannot wait! Really hoping to set some new PBs... seriously. Last time I trained Pull was last Wednesday. Jeez. I know that I am well-rested. Thats for sure.

Saturday Fever
11-21-2002, 10:38 AM
Yay for working out! I finally go back tomorrow and I can't wait. We're going to do things a little differently the next two days. Instead of doing the regular set of lifts and such, we're going to do 100 reps. We're going to use enough weight that it takes anywhere from 5-10 sets, but that's it. Tomorrow we'll do 100 squats, and Saturday we'll do 100 presses. It's going to be nuts.

MonStar
11-21-2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Yay for working out! I finally go back tomorrow and I can't wait. We're going to do things a little differently the next two days. Instead of doing the regular set of lifts and such, we're going to do 100 reps. We're going to use enough weight that it takes anywhere from 5-10 sets, but that's it. Tomorrow we'll do 100 squats, and Saturday we'll do 100 presses. It's going to be nuts.

Wow, hehe, that could be interesting. Talk about lots of friggin' volume. I did that a few times for chin-ups---and you wanna talk about DOMS. With our recovery equation SF you wont be back in the gym for weeks. LOL. :D:D Seemed to crush my lats though. The beginning would look something like this for chins:

BWx12
BWx10
BWx8
BWx7
BWx6
BWx5
BWx4
BWx4
BWx3
BWx3

Etc. etc. you get the picture. My lats would just fatigue and fatigue until I was doing BW chins for triples haha. Talk about feeling weak as sh*t in the gym.

Saturday Fever
11-21-2002, 12:36 PM
Yeah, it's been recommended to take 3-5 minutes rest between sets, but I'm pretty sure by the end I'll be irking out triples and doubles as if I'd never lifted before.

MonStar
11-21-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Yeah, it's been recommended to take 3-5 minutes rest between sets, but I'm pretty sure by the end I'll be irking out triples and doubles as if I'd never lifted before.

Yeah I am willing to bet that youll end up in the 2-3 rep range towards the end of the 100 reps. Sounds solid though man where did you come up with this idea from? I dont think I have ever seen anything of the sort in Supertraining. Maybe some talk about increased volume but nothing like this. Hehe.

MonStar
11-21-2002, 01:44 PM
_______________________________________
DAY 9
Thursday, 11-21-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Finally---back in the gym. I feel like I havnt been to the gym is so damn long I almost feel like a stranger going back in there this morning. Well see how things go. I am really hoping for some serious strength and I think that Ill do good with it. Well see what happens of course. I really want to bentover row a bit more than 230 and rack pull around 555, well see what happens. I am just going to get intense and do the best that I can. Well see how things go.

PAIN/SORENESS
Nothing is sore!! Haha today I feel completely recuperated, which is definitely a good feeling. Really looking forward to the workout that I am going to get this morning.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Preworkout: orange juice, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 5cc Liquid Clenbutrx
During Workout: 20 oz. Gatorade + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 1/2 tsp. salt
Postworkout: 1/2 serving Cell-Tech, 500 mg. ALA, 1 serving whey protein
Meal 4: 1 bag raisinets candy
Meal 5: 2 Wendy's cheeseburgers, 1 Wendy's small frosty
Meal 6: 1 box macaroni & cheese, iced tea

Estimated Calories: ~3500

TRAINING---PULL
Bentover Overhand Barbell Rows:
250x7.5!, 205x12
Wow, GREAT sets of bentover rows today. This competition with HomeYield is definitely going to be friggin' motivation to get strong as F*CK, fast. Good strength here on the bentover rows though, seriously. Felt extremely strong, and extremely powerful. Form was *FLAWLESS*. And then I saw flawless, I mean friggin' textbook. Started off with the bar, then 135, then 185, then 225 for warmups. All were fairly easy so instead of 235 on these I bumped it up to 250 lbs. Felt good at 250 lbs. too. Form was great, as were my lat contractions. Back was destroyed from that first workset. Got 7.5 reps though which was damn impressive for 250 lbs. For me at least. I feel good about my strength in this exercise. I have a feeling Ill hit 275 for some reps in the next few weeks. Dropped down to 205 for 12. Good strength here I think.

Parallel-grip Supported Rows:
255x3.5!, 210x7
Wow, I like these a LOT more than underhand support rows! I dont know why I never considered doing this grip before. Felt the movement MUCH more in my lats than I normally do. Good strength here I think. Especially right after bentover rows. Went maybe a little TOO heavy for my first set. Used 255 lbs. for 3.5 reps. Nice strength here I guess I dont know. PB with a parallel grip. Lat contractions were good so thats a good thing. Dropped down to 210 for 7 reps which was a very good set. Lats were beat up at this point.

Seated V-bar Cable Rows:
230x7!, 200x9
Nice strength here on cable rows! New PB from last week. Up 1.5 reps from last week which is good I think. Since I didnt do the supported rows last week. Nice midback and lat contractions. Lats were dead, damn. Dropped down to 200 lbs. for 9 reps. Ouch. Good lactic acid buildup in my lats, and some friggin' hard contractions. Arched my back and really squeezed my lats as hard as possible.

Crossbench Dumbbell Pullovers:
80x6!
Damn, nice finisher for my lats!! Really good set here. Lat stretch and entire upper body stretch was friggin' awesome. Felt this movement a LOT in my lats right under my armpits, and my serratus and intercostals. Which was a good thing. Nice set here. Up to an 80 lbs. DB from a 75 lbs. DB last week which is good. Nice strength here I think. Hit my lats and entire upper body quite hard. Sternum ache was good.

Rack Deadlifts:
555x1!, 405x5
Made a BIG mistake here I think. Made this exercise come after a bunch of others. Next pull session I am going to do bentover rows, and then rack deads, then the rest of my routine. Grip and back is friggin' exausted by the time that I get to these. Lats are dead, and my friggin' grip is shot. New PB though somehow!! Good strength here I think. Really hit my traps and midback extremely hard. Nice sets here seriously. Damn, hit my entire back HARD. 555 felt heavy as f*ck. Probably because my lats were friggin' dead as hell. Hopefully next pull session Ill get 565 without much of a struggle. Warmuped up with 135, 225, 315, and 405. Felt good with 555 (being warmed up). Dropped down for 405 for 5 which I should have gotten more but my hands were aching and I was just dead.

Standing Barbell Curls:
135x3!, 95x9
Damn good sets of BB curls today! Hit my biceps extremely hard with 135 lbs. Got a triple with 135 which is a new PB for me. Nice strength here. Really crushed my biceps. Focused 100% on my biceps contracting and everything like that. Surprised that I got a triple actually. My previous PB was 135x2. So thats good. Not too much body English, but some. Dropped down to 95x9. Nice set here!! I was happy about my strength here. I remember years ago 95 lbs. on BB curls was damn impressive. It killed my biceps. I would get 1-2 reps with 95 lbs. and be dead. At least I know I am improving.

Incline Alternating Dumbbell Hammer Curls:
40x6!
A good set of incline curls today!! Used 40s instead of 35s and damn was this a big difference. This lit my biceps on fire like crazy!! Wow. Ouch. Got 6 reps though on each side which was good I think. Biceps were pumped up and totally beat up at this point. Good set though. Going to most likely keep this weight for my next pull session, see what happens.

Seated Cambered-bar Reverse Preacher Curls:
80x7
Nice set here. I dont know. Just through these in here because I wanted an exercise to toast my brachioradialis and brachialis, other than rope cable curls. So these sure did the trick! Hit my arms hard. Nice pump and good slow negative during this set. Focused hard on feeling the exercise in my forearms and arms. Nice set. Deep aching feeling.

Standing Rope Hammer Cable Curls:
160x7!
Wow---awesome finishing movement today for my pull session. Used 160 lbs. on rope cable curls!! Damn, LOL. I was happy to say the least. I get so many stares during this exercise its crazy. Not sure why. Maybe because I am damn near curling the entire weight stack. Good form too. Elbows locked against my sides, full ROM, etc. Nice deep aching feeling in my brachialis and brachioradialis.

TRAINING LENGTH
50 minutes

SLEEP
8 hours

WEIGHT
207 lbs. (home)---214 lbs. (gym)

MISCELLANEOUS
Eh, workout was a bit long this morning. I try to keep mine in the 30-45 minute range but oh well. A little bit longer wont hurt anything. Did a lot of exercises I think. Got 8 hours sleep last night which I definitely needed! And weight this morning at home was quite unimpressive to be honest. But oh well. At the gym it was a little better but still nothing great. Shooting for a bit more which I think will definitely happen if I keep my calories up. They were quite high yesterday after eating at Red Lobster. LOL, I ate chicken alfredo and soda and dinner rolls, etc. I hate seafood so that was one of the few non-seafood options.

Saturday Fever
11-21-2002, 01:48 PM
Damn. Zatsiorsky's Model has you setting PR's as well. :)

That was some serious weight moving around today. I tell you, if you can tolerate the occassional long rest period, I think this Model of Training is incredible. Rest up, you've got PR's to set tomorrow as well. :)

Silverback
11-21-2002, 01:51 PM
Woah! some workout Mike, the bent over rows and deadlifts were out of this world :) :)

You've got to give me some tips on the Bent-over rows at present i can do about 90lbs for 8-10 reps, maybe im doing something wrong or my technique is off. some help would be taken with open arms.

"Eh, workout was a bit long this morning. I try to keep mine in the 30-45 minute range but oh well. A little bit longer wont hurt anything"

bloody hell Mike, this is long for you, good on you

:thumbup: it probably wont hurt to mix things up a bit.

Just keep things going and something awsome will come out of it, if there was betting available between you and Homeyield, my money would be on you :)

MonStar
11-21-2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Damn. Zatsiorsky's Model has you setting PR's as well. :)

Yeah man youre telling me. I havnt felt this strong in the gym in a long, long, LONG, time. Honestly. I am not just saying this either. By the time I got to rack pulls I was so damn exausted. I mean after heavy bentover rows, supported rows, cable rows, and pullovers---I was shot. My rack pull strength was insane. I mean seriously. I never thought that I was going to get 555x1 after all these sets. My grip was shot, my traps were pretty tired, etc.


That was some serious weight moving around today. I tell you, if you can tolerate the occassional long rest period, I think this Model of Training is incredible. Rest up, you've got PR's to set tomorrow as well. :)

Yeah man I am going to tolerate the rest period. I couldnt care less as long as I am setting new PBs. (time for chris mason to get on me, I dropped his program because of the rest periods) Yeah it is incredible SF, to say the least. And I train legs on Sunday, and then Push on Tuesday I believe it is. Ill have to double-check that though. DOMS was worse than I thought.

Saturday Fever
11-21-2002, 01:58 PM
In that case, eat and rest well and whoop some ASS on Sunday. Awesome work.

MonStar
11-21-2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Woah! some workout Mike, the bent over rows and deadlifts were out of this world :) :)

Hey thanks a lot BR, keep in mind that the deads are rack deadlifts. Not full ROM deadlifts. LOL. They would be out of this world if they were full ROM deadlifts, hehe. Anyway man thanks for the kind words, seriously. I was happy about my strength today. Which is pretty rare for me.


You've got to give me some tips on the Bent-over rows at present i can do about 90lbs for 8-10 reps, maybe im doing something wrong or my technique is off. some help would be taken with open arms.

I dont know BR. I mean in all honesty man there isnt much to bentover rows at all. Seriously. I am going to and sound as clear as possible so that you know what I am talking about when I saw that there really isnt much to the form at all.
I use a double-overhand grip on the barbell.
My hands are spaced shoulder-width apart.
I am leaning over, but my upper body is NOT parallel to the floor.
I am at approximately a 70 degree angle. I am literally in the middle of standing completely upright, and my back being parallel to the floor.
I am pulling the bar to my WAIST. Not anything but my waist. Not my sternum, not my abdomen, my waist.
I am arching my back (sticking my chest out) very much, during the entire set.
Thats about it BR. I dont know how else to explain how I do bentover rows man, hope this helped.


"Eh, workout was a bit long this morning. I try to keep mine in the 30-45 minute range but oh well. A little bit longer wont hurt anything"

bloody hell Mike, this is long for you, good on you

:thumbup: it probably wont hurt to mix things up a bit.

Yeah I but honestly I do try to keep my workouts short and sweet. Get in the gym and get the f*ck out fast. No need to sit around it there and chit chat and talk about politics, and all this other dumb sh*t that I here people talking about when I am trying to train. Just wasting their time to be honest when they should be focusing on what theyre doing.


Just keep things going and something awsome will come out of it, if there was betting available between you and Homeyield, my money would be on you :)

LOL, thanks a lot BR. :D:D Thats a huge compliment man I appreciate it. I wouldnt put your money on me so quickly though man. Maybe you should check out HomeYield's chinning and dipping strength. Sh*t is unreal man. Chins especially. I think I read he was doing +90x4. Far more than I have done. My PB for chins was +100x1.5 So, no doubt, its gonna be close.

ectx
11-21-2002, 02:18 PM
8 PR's Mike...that's awesome. Looks like whatever you're doing is working...and it's working really well. What is the crossbench dumbbell pullover like? Anyway...good going man.

MonStar
11-21-2002, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
In that case, eat and rest well and whoop some ASS on Sunday. Awesome work.

Yeah I am going to eat and eat and eat. Try and pack in TONS of calories, and TONS of protein before Sunday. Hopefully Ill be okay to hit up some squats. Most likely not GMs though, oh well. I think that rack deads are hitting my lower back nicely. I dont think I need to bother with GMs to be honest. I dont know well see what happens. Thanks for the post SF, and all the support.

MonStar
11-21-2002, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by ectx
8 PR's Mike...that's awesome. Looks like whatever you're doing is working...and it's working really well. What is the crossbench dumbbell pullover like? Anyway...good going man.

Thanks a lot for the support ectx, appreciate it man, seriously. Means a lot. Yeah I know exactly whatever I am doing is working. Right now I am eating like a pig, and just basically following the recovery equation, Zatsiorsky's Model, found on pages 87-89 in Supertraining. So there obviously isnt much to it. I am going to attach the pullovers. The only difference is that I am using a dumbbell, and using two hands on one dumbbell.

Silverback
11-21-2002, 03:34 PM
Thanks for the advice Mike, i'll put it into practise tommorow. I think that if i get my head down and work hard over the next 7 months i'll be able to make just as much progress if not more as i did the previous 7. Hopefully yours and others help will edge me on to achieve it.

B-R

MonStar
11-21-2002, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Thanks for the advice Mike, i'll put it into practise tommorow. I think that if i get my head down and work hard over the next 7 months i'll be able to make just as much progress if not more as i did the previous 7. Hopefully yours and others help will edge me on to achieve it.

B-R

Yeah man good luck with the bentover rows, seriously. Theyre a great exercise if performed correctly. Supported rows are also excellent, seriously. Both great exercises. Yeah man Ill definitely be here to answer your questions, seriously. I have no problem helping you out over the next 6 months man. Hopefully youll make some terrific progress. Good luck.

WillKuenzel
11-21-2002, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Just keep things going and something awsome will come out of it, if there was betting available between you and Homeyield, my money would be on you :)
Hey, hey now buddy, we'll just have to see about that. :)

I agree though with everybody, awesome work on everything! Its great to see things progress across the board.

Pull for me is on Monday. Got the weekend to rest and I'll just have to set my sights a little higher. I don't suspect I'll pull quite a much on the rack deadlifts but I'll get ya on the rows.

Again man, awesome job!

MonStar
11-21-2002, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by HomeYield
Hey, hey now buddy, we'll just have to see about that. :)

I agree though with everybody, awesome work on everything! Its great to see things progress across the board.

Hey thanks a lot HY, really appreciate it man, seriously. Yeah well see what happens. Good luck with your pull session on Monday I am sure that youll progress nicely. Most of progression I am realizing now is in your head. LOL. I am very competitive, as I am sure that you are, and I am just trying hard to make some good progress every Pull session.


Pull for me is on Monday. Got the weekend to rest and I'll just have to set my sights a little higher. I don't suspect I'll pull quite a much on the rack deadlifts but I'll get ya on the rows.

Again man, awesome job!

Yeah HY really looking forward to seeing how you do on Monday with rack deadlifts and bentover rows. I am sure youll do well, especially with the rack deadlifts. Great exercise man. Youll feel that all through your back and traps. I dont know man I think that my bentover row strength is going to fly up. 250x7 today felt pretty easy. Well not easy easy but it didnt feel back. I know Ive got 275 in me pretty soon. I dont know well see what happens. Is 225x6 your PB ever on bentover rows?

ryan1117
11-21-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Rack Deadlifts:
555x1!, 405x5
Made a BIG mistake here I think. Made this exercise come after a bunch of others. Next pull session I am going to do bentover rows, and then rack deads, then the rest of my routine. Grip and back is friggin' exausted by the time that I get to these. Lats are dead, and my friggin' grip is shot. New PB though somehow!! Good strength here I think. Really hit my traps and midback extremely hard. Nice sets here seriously. Damn, hit my entire back HARD. 555 felt heavy as f*ck. Probably because my lats were friggin' dead as hell. Hopefully next pull session Ill get 565 without much of a struggle. Warmuped up with 135, 225, 315, and 405. Felt good with 555 (being warmed up). Dropped down for 405 for 5 which I should have gotten more but my hands were aching and I was just dead.


Good job! I was wondering why you do racks over normal DL's. Do you do rack DL's to improve your lockout, grip, or not to overtrain the legs? Are there any parts that you feel that make them superior to normal deads? I was just wondering since I have seen a few others on here doing them.

MonStar
11-22-2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by ryan1117
Good job! I was wondering why you do racks over normal DL's. Do you do rack DL's to improve your lockout, grip, or not to overtrain the legs? Are there any parts that you feel that make them superior to normal deads? I was just wondering since I have seen a few others on here doing them.

Personally, I MUCH prefer rack deadlifts to standard full ROM deadlifts. The main reason is because they completely take your legs out of the lift. I dont feel the exercise in my lower body at all. Which, to me, is a good thing. Because I am training Pull not Legs & Pull. Just a personal opinion. They also push a lot of the stress onto my mid-back and grip and traps rather than my hamstrings, glutes, lower back, etc. I just prefer them all around I guess.

MonStar
11-22-2002, 10:19 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 10
Friday, 11-22-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel okay today I guess I dont know. Sunday I train Legs, and then on Tuesday I believe I train Push. I am most likely going to drop delts from my push routine and just leave them out entirely. My delts get hit hard from my Pull session somehow. And my front delts get hit hard from my Push session. So its all good. Today I work from 1-7 so that shouldnt be too bad. I really enjoy my job which makes a huge difference I think.

PAIN/SORENESS
Sore as hell today!! Ouch!! Rear and side delts are killing me, lats and midback and traps are all aching. Lower back is stiff. My entire back is just friggin' killing me. My biceps and brachialis and brachioradialis are all shot too. Ow.. neck is also extremely sore. Damn.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Meal 1: Metrx MRP + 2% milk + ice-cream, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 2: organic soda, 1 balance gold bar, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 3: whey protein powder + rice milk
Meal 4: soy protein powder + rice milk, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 5: 2 choclate chip cookies
Meal 6: 1 Wendy's cheeseburger
Meal 7: choclate milk
Meal 8: iced tea

Estimated Calories: ~3100

TRAINING---REST
N/A.

TRAINING LENGTH
N/A.

SLEEP
9 hours

WEIGHT
209 lbs. (home)---215 lbs. (work)

MISCELLANEOUS
Sleep was pretty damn lousy last night. Fell asleep at my girlfriend's place which was a big mistake because my dad almost took away my car. But anyways.. whatever. Long story. Woke up a few times last night so I didnt sleep real well. Oh well. Weight this morning was okay. Nothing all that great. Been trying to hit 210 lbs. for a while now. Not sure what the problem is.

MonStar
11-23-2002, 07:31 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 11
Saturday, 11-23-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel pretty good today I think. Work today from 9:45-5. Nothing too bad but a bit long. Its all good though I usually dont mind Saturdays because theyre pretty damn busy. Which is nice because it makes the day go by a lot faster. Been reading up on Metaformin, which is like alpha-lipoic acid on 'roids so to speak. Looks pretty interesting. Was thinking about giving that stuff a shot just to keep my bf% to minimum during this bulking cycle that I am doing. Who knows. Just caught my attention thats all. Well see what happens.

PAIN/SORENESS
Damn I am still aching today!! Ow! Lats and midback are friggin' killing me, what else is now. Lower back is stiff. Traps are still sore, and so is my friggin' neck. Biceps and brachialis and brachioradialis are all friggin' killing me! Jeez. These is day (2) of my back/biceps DOMS.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Meal 1: Meso-tech MRP + 2% milk + 1 banana, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g ester-C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 2: balance protein shake
Meal 3: 2 slices rice bread + jam, 1g ester-C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 4: choclate bar, 300 mg. ALA
Meal 5: whey protein powder + rice milk
Meal 6: chicken alfredo pasta, organic soda, 300 mg. ALA
Meal 7: vitamin water
Meal 8: 2 pudding snacks, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g ester-C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1, 200 mg. ALA
Meal 9: 2 slices pizza, 1 slice birthday cake, ice-cream, soda, chips, 200 mg. ALA

Estimated Calories: ~5500

TRAINING---REST
N/A.

TRAINING LENGTH
N/A.

SLEEP
7.5 hours

WEIGHT
208.5 lbs. (home)---213 lbs. (work)

MISCELLANEOUS
Eh, slept okay last night. Had a horrible nightmare about my girlfriend Brittany. Damn. I wont get into on here but it wasnt fun at all. Woke up kind of in shock and upset and whatever else. Weight this morning was okay I guess, I dont know. Hopefully at work Ill weigh around 214-216. I dont know I have been hovering around 215 or so for a while. I think that Ill slowly get up to 225 lbs. in the near future though. Well see.

Silverback
11-23-2002, 10:12 AM
Hope your day goes well at work Mike, where did you read about Metaformin? i would be interested to read about it, ive heard snippets but nothing more.

Nightmares are the worst, if any bad thing was to really happen like that then i would be devastated. later chief.

B-R

Otter
11-23-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Been reading up on Metaformin, which is like alpha-lipoic acid on 'roids so to speak. Looks pretty interesting. Was thinking about giving that stuff a shot just to keep my bf% to minimum during this bulking cycle that I am doing.

You're kidding, right? Let me get this straight. Instead of cleaning up your admittedly $hitty diet and ridding yourself of the "calories are calories" school of thought, you're considering resorting to a supplement to keep your bodyfat % low?

Wow.

Saturday Fever
11-23-2002, 02:59 PM
Calories ARE calories. By the very definition of the word, a calorie is a calorie.

Franjipani
11-23-2002, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Had a horrible nightmare about my girlfriend Brittany. Damn. I wont get into on here but it wasnt fun at all. Woke up kind of in shock and upset and whatever else.

Leaves a horrible taste in your mouth eh?? I had one of those where I dreamt my best friends boyfriend died in a car crash..it was so vivid... I was out of sorts for a few days over that one...not nice :(

Keep ya chin up:)

MonStar
11-24-2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Hope your day goes well at work Mike, where did you read about Metaformin? i would be interested to read about it, ive heard snippets but nothing more.

Yeah I dont know I am trying my best to read up on it. Its basically very similar to ALA (alpha-lipoic acid) just a bit stronger. I have read that it can seriously help prevent fat spillover while bulking up and things like that. Also creates awesome pumps in the gym, etc. Just a good insulin-like supplement I think. Well see, I keep reading up on it.


Nightmares are the worst, if any bad thing was to really happen like that then i would be devastated. later chief.

B-R

Yeah man, I friggin' hate nightmares. Damn. Cant stand the f*cking things.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by Otter
You're kidding, right? Let me get this straight. Instead of cleaning up your admittedly $hitty diet and ridding yourself of the "calories are calories" school of thought, you're considering resorting to a supplement to keep your bodyfat % low?

Wow.

I dont know yet Otter. Thanks for chiming in and being so positive. I am honestly asking you Otter that if what you have to say is not positive, PLEASE keep it out of my journal. Again, I have asked you this before. I honestly couldnt care less what you have to say if its negative, seriously. I am not going to bother the MODs with editing your posts because they have better things to do. So please, again, I am being polite, keep the negativity to yourself---thanks. :D:D

MonStar
11-24-2002, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Calories ARE calories. By the very definition of the word, a calorie is a calorie.

Yeah exactly SF. This is the kind of stuff that I am talking about that bothers me. The negativity from some people really gets under my skin. I mean my performance in the gym is going up and up and up. And members like Otter just run their mouths for no reason at all. I said I was reading about Metaformin its some godd*mn catastrophie. Jesus. Get a grip.

Anyway in about ~8-9 hours I am going to be hitting up a heavy friggin' leg session. Ill determine whether or not squats are going to happen once I get there, well see.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Franjipani
Leaves a horrible taste in your mouth eh?? I had one of those where I dreamt my best friends boyfriend died in a car crash..it was so vivid... I was out of sorts for a few days over that one...not nice :(

Keep ya chin up:)

Yeah it does Fran youre exactly right. I friggin' hate nightmares. You wake up all like scared wondering if what you just dreamed is actually reality or was it just a dream. Thats what happens to me at least. I always wake up completely dumbfounded. Oh well.

Silverback
11-24-2002, 03:57 AM
"yeah I dont know I am trying my best to read up on it. Its basically very similar to ALA (alpha-lipoic acid) just a bit stronger. I have read that it can seriously help prevent fat spillover while bulking up and things like that. Also creates awesome pumps in the gym, etc. Just a good insulin-like supplement I think. Well see, I keep reading up on it"

definately sounds promising, ps good look with the leg workout today. By the sounds of things you are ready to lift some serious weight around.

B-R

NateDogg
11-24-2002, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by MonStar


Yeah it does Fran youre exactly right. I friggin' hate nightmares. You wake up all like scared wondering if what you just dreamed is actually reality or was it just a dream. Thats what happens to me at least. I always wake up completely dumbfounded. Oh well.

This happens to me once in a great while. It makes the real life I wake up to, once I figure out it's not that bad, so much better!!

MonStar
11-24-2002, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
definately sounds promising, ps good look with the leg workout today. By the sounds of things you are ready to lift some serious weight around.

B-R

Yeah I am still looking into it though so I really dont know where to go at this point. Well see what happens with the Metaformin. I might just completely leave it alone. Like I said I am really not sure yet.

Thanks for the support BR, yeah I am going to be shooting for some good strength in my leg session today. Well see what happens I guess. I am really really hoping to throw some big time weight around but I dont know yet. I think that my lower back feels fine in terms of doing squats and all that---so well see.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by NateDogg
This happens to me once in a great while. It makes the real life I wake up to, once I figure out it's not that bad, so much better!!

Yeah it does do that ND youre exactly right about that one. When I wake up thinking that something horrible has happened then I am like, oh, well its not that bad at least. Strange how that happens isnt it? It also seems to work the other way around too. Where you dream something is great in your life and you wake up and its not there and youre like what the f*ck!?

Otter
11-24-2002, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
I am not going to bother the MODs with editing your posts because they have better things to do.

What's there to edit?

I only thought you were smarter than having to resort to a supplement to control something that you could very easily control yourself.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Otter
What's there to edit?

I only thought you were smarter than having to resort to a supplement to control something that you could very easily control yourself.

Its very simply the negativity that I get from you from your posts thats all. Its not rocket science its very simple. If youre going to be all sarcastic and act like a d*ck please just keep the comments to yourself. If youre going to make educated, supportive, posts---then please do so. I am not trying to be mean but when I am focusing on being dedicated to what I am doing, etc., and its hard when I have guys like you who seem to be just dragging me down.

Otter
11-24-2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
I am not trying to be mean but when I am focusing on being dedicated to what I am doing, etc., and its hard when I have guys like you who seem to be just dragging me down.

Not dragging you down, trying to open your eyes.

Silverback
11-24-2002, 10:53 AM
Otter, i think Mike made his point clear that positive is the direction he wants. From posts he clearly states that he is making great progress with the current diet etc...

This sort of negativity is not required and as of yet mike has not taken this supplement, simply talked about reading into it. Even if he did take, i wouldn't see a problem with it.

Just try and take this into consideration with future posts.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Otter
Not dragging you down, trying to open your eyes.

Well thats great and all Otter, but you could try 'opening my eyes' a little more positively. Like maybe, "hey instead of resorting to glucophage maybe you should just consider cleaning up your diet.' But since my diet has nothing to do with why I am reading up on the glucophage that wouldnt make much sense. I am reading up on it because when taking in a surplus of calories (bulking), your body is going to naturally store some of those calories as fat. From what I have read, glucophage is excellent for driving those extra calories into your muscles.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Otter, i think Mike made his point clear that positive is the direction he wants. From posts he clearly states that he is making great progress with the current diet etc...

This sort of negativity is not required and as of yet mike has not taken this supplement, simply talked about reading into it. Even if he did take, i wouldn't see a problem with it.

Just try and take this into consideration with future posts.

Thanks a lot BR, appreciate you seeing my side of it. Seriously. The bottom line is just preventing fat gain to be honest. I have the tendency to gain a lot of fat rather quickly when I take in a surplus of calories. But as we all know extra calories are necessary for gaining size and strength. So I am at a bit of a dilemma. Hopefully glucophage will work out for me. Well see what happens. Ill post my results and everything like that if I start it.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:34 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 12
Sunday, 11-24-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Training legs this morning. Hopefully everything will go well with that. Well see what happens I guess obviously. Been adding some ALA to my diet lately as you can see. Going to shoot for around 1.5-2g per day I think just to help prevent any fat spillover since I am eating so damn much. Most people experience good results taking in this much per day. Gets annoying to take it with every damn meal but oh well. Ill live with it. Especially if it does help prevent me from gaining fat.

A few things. (1) I feel FAT AS F*CK. Stupid move to pig out on birthday cake and soda and sh*t last night at my girlfriend's sister's birthday party. Dumb move. Oh well. (2) I am dropping the ALA. Jesus. Leaving it JUST postworkout. Sh*t is making me feel so godd*mn sick to my stomach its unreal. Put powdered ALA in my Gatorade during my workout today and I felt like I was going to pass out. It made my Gatorade taste like hell, and stink like rotten eggs (seriously).

PAIN/SORENESS
Eh, not too sore today at all. Some mild DOMS in my lats and midback but nothing major at all. Today should be my last day of back soreness I think. This is day (3) of negative traces for my back though. So, I would be training Pull again on Friday. Jeez thats a long way away. LOL. Oh well. Recovery is key. Forgot to add that my brachioradialis (upper forearm) is friggin' KILLING me! DOMS in that is insane for some reason. F*ckin' reverse curls.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Preworkout: orange juice, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 5cc Liquid Clenbutrx
During Workout: 20 oz. Gatorade + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 1/2 tsp. salt
Postworkout: 1/2 serving Cell-Tech, 500 mg. ALA, 1 serving whey protein

... PIG OUT!! tuttuttuttut Jesus. Birthday part continued from yesterday. Just ate tons of chips, cake, ice-cream, soda, meatball sandwiches, etc. etc. etc. Basically ate like a huge fat person. Stupid move. But oh well.

Estimated Calories: ~7000-9000

TRAINING---LEGS
Squats:
405x5!, 315x8
Awesome sets of squats today!! Damn. Felt extremely strong in this exercise which was just awesome. Started off with 135, 225, and 315 for warmups. All fairly easy. Just going through the motions to be honest. Jumped up to 405 lbs. Four friggin' plates per side. I have squatted 405 before thats not the PB, the reps are, by the way. I think that my PB before was 405x2 or maybe 405x3. I think that it was 405x2 though, but Ill have to check. Anyways managed to get 5 reps here somehow. Awesome power on this movement. Some big guy came up behind me and pushed me for the 5th rep. I was going for 5 anyway but he was just saying in my ear, 'c'mon this is nothing..' etc. Haha, always helpful. Dropped down to three plates per size for 8. Quick set. Nothing fancy here.

Power Squats:
600x8!, 500x10
Wow, 80 lbs. new PB! LOL. Good set here. I loaded up 500 lbs. and it wasnt heavy at all so I upped that to 600 lbs. Nice strength here. Really hit my glutes and thighs hard. Damn. Thighs were aching after these two sets. Dropped 100 lbs. and went for 10 reps. Nice strength on the both of these sets. Probably going to increase slowly after this depending on how I feel of course. Well see what happens. Really like this exercise. Seems to supplement my freeweight squatting strength.

Seated Leg Extensions:
210x8!
Nice set of leg extensions today. I am pretty damn close to stacking out this entire machine which is nice. That would be pretty cool. Used 10 lbs. more than last week for 8 reps. Nice strength here I guess. Quad contractions were awesome, I mean really really good. Lactic acid buildup in my quads was also terrific.

Lying Leg Curls:
160x9!
Nice set here of lying leg curls. Hamstrings definitely took a beating from this set. My hamstrings were already hit hard with squats and power squats but this just finished them off completely. Contractions in my hamstrings were on target today. Felt it completely in my hamstrings and nowhere else. Talk about isolation. Up 10 lbs. from last week.

Rope Cable Pull-throughs:
130x7!
Damn good set of pull-throughs today! Up 10 lbs. from last week here too! Down a rep though but oh well, I dont care. Probably going to keep this weight. Really hit my glutes and hamstrings and lower back hard. I feel this exercise a LOT in my glutes. Hopefully my glutes will grow some---to make my girlfriend happier. LOL. :angel::angel:

Seated Calf Raises:
180x20, 180x20, 180x20
Nice finishing sets for my leg workout today. Calves took a hell of a beating from these three sets. Didnt take much rest between them at all. Awesome burn in my calves. Very intense. Really contracted my calves hard on every rep of every set. Three sets of 20 reps seem to torch my calves perfectly. Going to keep this exercise/weight/reps for a while. See how my calves respond.

TRAINING LENGTH
25 minutes

SLEEP
7.5 hours

WEIGHT
211.5 lbs. (home)---219 lbs. (gym) :eek::eek:

MISCELLANEOUS
Workout was pretty good this morning, 25 minutes long. Slept well last night I guess, woke up once I believe for no real reason at all. Weight this morning was 211.5 lbs. at home, and 219 at the gym. Okay if I was steadily getting up to this weight I would be happy. But I am not. I am pigging out like some fat slob and wondering why I feel so godd*mn flabby. Oh well. It was my fault obviously. Nothing that I can do now. Just learn.

ryan1117
11-24-2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Squats:
405x5!


Damn, that's a lot of weight. I'd say it is time to update your signature for your personal best on squats! I'm still not to 3 plates on each side yet.

Silverback
11-24-2002, 12:38 PM
Super Duper Workout Mike :) :)

The squats were sweet as, although it would be hard to find a fault in any exercise. You are pushing more weight all the time, setting new PB's etc... which is brill.

Keep ur chin up over your fat levels, like you said 'just learn' nobody's perfect, i would tell you not to beat yourself up over it, but i know you well enough now to understand that you have control over it.

Once again gr8 workout. B-R :thumbup:

Blood&Iron
11-24-2002, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by MonStar


Yeah I dont know I am trying my best to read up on it. Its basically very similar to ALA (alpha-lipoic acid) just a bit stronger. I have read that it can seriously help prevent fat spillover while bulking up and things like that. Also creates awesome pumps in the gym, etc. Just a good insulin-like supplement I think.

Uhh, it's a prescription drug.
RX Info:
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/metformi.htm

I have some idea why you're calling it a 'supplement', but please, let's call a spade a spade.

Saturday Fever
11-24-2002, 06:46 PM
Nice workout. You've been rolling this Model of Training for what, a couple weeks? And you've set new PR's every single time in the gym. That's awesome. I know what you're saying about Pull not being until Friday, but seriously, look at your rackd eads and envision yourself adding 20 to that, and the wait is all worth it. :)

Frozenmoses
11-24-2002, 08:09 PM
Great workout, MonStar. Especially the squats man, that's some serious freakin' weight. Keep it up.

captain piddles
11-24-2002, 08:11 PM
Power Squats:
600x8!, 500x10

wow dude good job!!

JohnnyAutoParts
11-24-2002, 10:29 PM
Haha, what up Monstar! I know I have been inactive in the forums since the summer due to an overwhelming academic standard being placed on me up here in Boston...but I've found some time to skim your journal, and here is what I think:

First, the WBB faithful must be outraged at your heavy implementation of fast food, soy supplements, and muscletech products! However, I'm on your side--the biggest fault of this and any other forum with a strong following is a tendency to adhere to the norm in fear of losing the respect of your virtual peers....which defeats the whole purpose of forums/open discussion. Not too long ago, I barely mentioned in the Supplement Forum that I tried Cell Tech 2 years ago and had above average results---consequentially people began to unload on me! "You bought into their marketing scam, I make my own, When will "you people" ever learn, and so on". So in other words, even though I may not agree completely with your dieting choices, I applaud you for trying it out. Let me know if this routine works, because it looks like something I would be glad to adopt. The push/pull distinction is quite intriguing as well. Stay natural too...I'm with you on that one!

Auto Parts

MonStar
11-24-2002, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by ryan1117
Damn, that's a lot of weight. I'd say it is time to update your signature for your personal best on squats! I'm still not to 3 plates on each side yet.

LOL---yeah it is time to update my signature. Havnt yet had a chance unfortunately. Been busy piggin' out all damn day. What a mistake that was. Going to feel like a monster blimp tomorrow. Oh well. Its all good. Good luck squatting 3 plates on each side ryan. Thats a big accomplishment. Then at 4 plates you feel even stronger. I am hoping that Ill soon get to 5 plates. That would be insane. I have been at 5 plates before but I was going down to parallel. Oh well.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Super Duper Workout Mike :) :)

The squats were sweet as, although it would be hard to find a fault in any exercise. You are pushing more weight all the time, setting new PB's etc... which is brill.

Keep ur chin up over your fat levels, like you said 'just learn' nobody's perfect, i would tell you not to beat yourself up over it, but i know you well enough now to understand that you have control over it.

Once again gr8 workout. B-R :thumbup:

Thanks for the support BR!! Appreciate it man. :):) Seriously. Yeah I am shooting for a new PB on every single training session. Which is a really good thing obviously. This Model of Training type of recovery I think is what is truly excellent. I mean that is what I seriously feel has helped me out. Taking just the right amount of rest. Not TOO much causing your muscles to atrophy but just enough. Obviously different musclegroups recover at different rates.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron
Uhh, it's a prescription drug.
RX Info:
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/metformi.htm

I have some idea why you're calling it a 'supplement', but please, let's call a spade a spade.

Thanks for chiming in B&I. Yes---youre right. It is a perscription drug. For type-II diabetes patients I believe. Seems to be extremely promising and extremely extremely safe. Which is something that always is important to me. I just have this fat-phobia as you know. LOL---thats the main reason that I want to experiment with it. An 850 mg. tablet of glucophage either once or twice per day. Well see.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Nice workout. You've been rolling this Model of Training for what, a couple weeks? And you've set new PR's every single time in the gym. That's awesome. I know what you're saying about Pull not being until Friday, but seriously, look at your rackd eads and envision yourself adding 20 to that, and the wait is all worth it. :)

Yeah I have been on this Model of Training system for a while now. Working extremely well though SF---and Ill have to give you all the credit in the world for brining it to my attention man. Honestly, I never would have stumbled upon it myself I dont think. Yeah I really have been setting new PBs nonstop. I dont expect a new PB on every exercise every single time I train, but I would love to increase something everytime I go into the gym. Even if its only a single rep. Yeah I am going to try and pull 565x1 next Friday. Well see what happens.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Frozenmoses
Great workout, MonStar. Especially the squats man, that's some serious freakin' weight. Keep it up.

Hey thanks a lot FM---appreciate it man. Youll be squattin' 4 plates per side in no time man, hang in there. I know that its tough when you feel like youre at the bottom but trust me, we have ALL started somewhere. No one here at WBB with any kind of appreciable amount of strength started off that way. I started off benching friggin' 95 lbs. I think. Something like that.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by captain piddles
Power Squats:
600x8!, 500x10

wow dude good job!!

Thanks a lot CP! :thumbup::thumbup: Really appreciate it man. Yeah these are truly a great exercise. I feel them so much in my thighs and my glutes. Great overall movement. I am going to attach a picture of apparatus just so that there is no confusion. Really would recommend it to anyone who wants to fry the f*cking hell outta their lower body.

MonStar
11-24-2002, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by JohnnyAutoParts
Haha, what up Monstar! I know I have been inactive in the forums since the summer due to an overwhelming academic standard being placed on me up here in Boston...but I've found some time to skim your journal, and here is what I think:

Really great to see you back here at WBB Johnny. Seriously. Havnt seen you around these boards in a while. Its all good though because everyone gets busy and doesnt have a chance to get on etc. I always seem to make time simply because I enjoy WBB so much. Good to have you back.


First, the WBB faithful must be outraged at your heavy implementation of fast food, soy supplements, and muscletech products!

LOL, isnt that the truth!! Taking Cell-Tech because I still have some left. Eating nothing but friggin' CRAP. I mean total crap. Yeah fast food all the way man! Thats what I have been eating. And I have been gaining like crazy. Strange isnt it?


However, I'm on your side--the biggest fault of this and any other forum with a strong following is a tendency to adhere to the norm in fear of losing the respect of your virtual peers....which defeats the whole purpose of forums/open discussion.

100% COMPLETELY AGREED.

Couldnt have said it better myself. I feel that sometimes forums become a bit TOO stubborn and are not open to new ideas. Thats the downfall of a lot of forums. I see that happen sometimes here at WBB, not too much though. HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training) seemed to be pretty promising but not many vets here at WBB would admit to that. Oh well.


Not too long ago, I barely mentioned in the Supplement Forum that I tried Cell Tech 2 years ago and had above average results---consequentially people began to unload on me! "You bought into their marketing scam, I make my own, When will "you people" ever learn, and so on". So in other words, even though I may not agree completely with your dieting choices, I applaud you for trying it out. Let me know if this routine works, because it looks like something I would be glad to adopt. The push/pull distinction is quite intriguing as well. Stay natural too...I'm with you on that one!

Auto Parts

Thanks Johnny for the support. I dont swear my Muscletech products or anything like that. But I bought a ton of Cell-Tech a while back and figured that I mine as well take it. Seems like good stuff at least. I dont know. Just dextrose, creatine, and ALA. And some aminos like taurine, etc. Anyway man yeah I will letcha know how I do with this program. I think that I am getting extremely good results with it. Basically it works like this. If you train your chest on Monday---and youre sore for Tuesday, and Wednesday. Thats (2) days of negative traces. (Tues. & Wed.) So you multiply 2x3=6. So thats 6 recovery days. So Monday---the day you trained chest (1), Tuesday (2), Wednesday (3), Thursday (4), Friday (5), and finally Saturday (6)---you will train chest again.

Make sense? Basically just 3 x the # of days with negative traces. And then thats when you train again. Working DAMN well so far.

Otter
11-24-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Eating nothing but friggin' CRAP. I mean total crap. Yeah fast food all the way man! Thats what I have been eating.


A few things. (1) I feel FAT AS F*CK. Stupid move to pig out on birthday cake and soda and sh*t last night at my girlfriend's sister's birthday party.


The bottom line is just preventing fat gain to be honest.

This is exactly what I've been trying to get you to see. I am completely aware that you haven't taken anything and are merely reading up on it, but just read these three quotes from your journal and tell me your fat gain problem wouldn't be easy to fix without the use of a supplement.

I give ... I'm done with it. I noticed patterns and mistakes in your workouts, diet, and routine that I've already been through, and I merely attempted to relay what I learned to you. If you took that as being negative, so be it. Best of luck.

Rastaman
11-25-2002, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Otter
I give ... I'm done with it. I noticed patterns and mistakes in your workouts, diet, and routine that I've already been through, and I merely attempted to relay what I learned to you. If you took that as being negative, so be it. Best of luck.

The way you gave your 'advice' was far from tactful. I think it was your delivery, not the message, that left a bitter, negative, aftertaste.

MonStar
11-25-2002, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Otter
This is exactly what I've been trying to get you to see. I am completely aware that you haven't taken anything and are merely reading up on it, but just read these three quotes from your journal and tell me your fat gain problem wouldn't be easy to fix without the use of a supplement.

I give ... I'm done with it. I noticed patterns and mistakes in your workouts, diet, and routine that I've already been through, and I merely attempted to relay what I learned to you. If you took that as being negative, so be it. Best of luck.

Okay Otter thats nice and all but you really need to try and be a little more positive when youre trying to send a message man. Seriously. I mean you offer some decent advice but the way that you go about giving it is just ridiculous. No one is going to listen to you when you are negative like that. I am not sure how you do not notice yourself doing this. And thanks for the good luck.

MonStar
11-25-2002, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Rastaman
The way you gave your 'advice' was far from tactful. I think it was your delivery, not the message, that left a bitter, negative, aftertaste.

Agreed R. :):) Thanks for posting man I dont think I have ever seen you post here in my journal. I really really like advice and suggestions etc. But when people are really negative about it its just retarded. I mean it doesnt make me feel any better at all. Worse, if anything. Ya know?

MonStar
11-25-2002, 10:47 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 13
Monday, 11-25-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Feel good today I think. Dont work, or workout, or have school. So this is the kind of day that I need! Just a relaxing day where I can hang out with my girlfriend and all that. She cracks me up!! :D:D Anyways I ordered some glucophage so that should be in sometime soon. I ended up ordering 250 tabs, 850 mg. each. I am thinking about doing 850 mg. in the morning, and then 8 hours later doing another 850 mg. Just to make the most of it. Well see what happens.

At this point I have Push on Tuesday, and Pull on Friday. And I am not sure yet about legs. Today is the first day of DOMS so well see what happens with that. DOMS isnt extreme though so thats good.

PAIN/SORENESS
Back and all that feels fine. No problems there at all. My legs are aching like crazy though!! Quads and hamstrings and calves and glutes are all shot. Day (1) of legs negative traces. So well see how long this lasts.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Meal 1: Opti-pro MRP + 2% milk + 1 banana, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g ester-C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 2: 1 Taco Bell supreme beef gordita, 1g ester-C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 3: 4 fun size candy bars
Meal 4: 1 Wendy's small frosty, 1 Wendy's cheeseburger, 1 Wendy's 5-piece chicken tender, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g ester-C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 6: whole milk, cookies

Estimated Calories: ~3000

TRAINING---REST
N/A.

TRAINING LENGTH
N/A.

SLEEP
7.5 hours

WEIGHT
211.5 lbs. (home)

MISCELLANEOUS
Rest day, which isnt bad. Good leg session yesterday. Slept well last night which was good. I needed that. Thats for sure. Weight this morning was also really good. Up a lot!! Damn. Ate way too damn much yesterday jeez what a mistake. I gotta lay off the pig-out days. At least until my glucophage gets here. ;);) Supposedly that stuff works wonders at preventing fat spillover. Well see what happens. I am expecting great things with it.

Otter
11-25-2002, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
Weight this morning was also really good. Up a lot!! Damn. Ate way too damn much yesterday jeez what a mistake.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist ... read this line and understand the HUGE contradiction in that sentence. You're happy that your weight is up, but mad because you ate too much. The two go hand in hand ... your weight is up BECAUSE you ate too much.


I gotta lay off the pig-out days. At least until my glucophage gets here. ;);) Supposedly that stuff works wonders at preventing fat spillover.

Laying off the pig-out days would be the absolute BEST way to prevent fat spillover ... and it would save you some money.

Maki Riddington
11-25-2002, 11:09 AM
Otter's point is that you contradict yourself.

You're also saying that a supplement will allow you to pig out? So that you can further continue your bad habits.

The way I see it and I'm sure many do is that you rely too much on supplements as a crutch to make up for your lack of self discipline. That is what bodybuilding is all about. Being able to control your body physically and mentally. And as it is rather apparent, you lack the mental ability.

MonStar
11-25-2002, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Otter
I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist ... read this line and understand the HUGE contradiction in that sentence. You're happy that your weight is up, but mad because you ate too much. The two go hand in hand ... your weight is up BECAUSE you ate too much.

No maybe I wasnt clear. I meant that pigging out (eating 7000+ calories) each day isnt necessary to gain weight. I want to steadily add weight until I am at around 225 lbs. Nothing dramatic though. I dont want to pig out for a few days and get to 225 fat and soft pounds. Thats what I meant. Next time Ill be sure to be more clear.


Laying off the pig-out days would be the absolute BEST way to prevent fat spillover ... and it would save you some money.

Yeah I agree. But Thanksgiving is coming up etc. Hehe and you gotta eat on those days! Glucophage hopefully will help. Well obviously see.

MonStar
11-25-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Otter's point is that you contradict yourself.

You're also saying that a supplement will allow you to pig out? So that you can further continue your bad habits.

The way I see it and I'm sure many do is that you rely too much on supplements as a crutch to make up for your lack of self discipline. That is what bodybuilding is all about. Being able to control your body physically and mentally. And as it is rather apparent, you lack the mental ability.

I am not taking a supplement to allow myself to pig out. I am starting a perscription drug that will hopefully prevent fat spillover. Basically so that I can take in above maintenance calories and not gain the unwanted fat. Seems to be good for any bodybuilder who wants to add size without adding fat. Well see what happens. Ill post my results of course. Thanks for chiming in Maki, but I dont feel that I lack any mental ability. :D:D

ectx
11-25-2002, 11:36 AM
Mike, this new routine of yours must be really kicking in because that leg workout was insane. Nice going there. I hope you stick to it because it looks like it's really helping your strength come along. How are you as far as size is concerned? You've gained a few pounds...haven't you?....so I guess it's all good. Keep it up Mike.

Otter
11-25-2002, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
I am not taking a supplement to allow myself to pig out. I am starting a perscription drug that will hopefully prevent fat spillover. Basically so that I can take in above maintenance calories and not gain the unwanted fat. Seems to be good for any bodybuilder who wants to add size without adding fat.

A prescription drug, exactly. Meant for people who actually NEED to prevent fat spillover because of their metabolism. You can prevent the fat spillover very easily and without the aid of a prescription drug.

A question ... how long before you dabble with AS? You started with mere supplements and are now getting into prescription drugs. If you really want to add size without adding fat, why not just take it all the way?

Workhorse
11-25-2002, 02:42 PM
Mike, your workouts look great... and you say my weights are impressive... they cower in the shadow of your numbers!! :D

Workhorse

Silverback
11-25-2002, 03:28 PM
I was waiting for the pain/soreness from yesterdays workout :)

Leg workouts tend to be killers, i.e. cant walk straight, with limp etc... But its all worth it.

Ive been doing some reading on the Metaformin and it sounds really useful and promising. It also seems pretty safe (always a bonus). The only downside in my point of view is the cost, i dont know about the US but over here, its totally out of my league (esecially being a tax-dodging student :) )

Maybe one for the future though. talk later M

MonStar
11-25-2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by ectx
Mike, this new routine of yours must be really kicking in because that leg workout was insane. Nice going there. I hope you stick to it because it looks like it's really helping your strength come along. How are you as far as size is concerned? You've gained a few pounds...haven't you?....so I guess it's all good. Keep it up Mike.

Hey thanks a lot for the kinds words ectx. Yeah I think that this Model of Training found in Supertraining is seriously GREAT stuff. I mean its so simple yet so friggin' effective. Glad that Saturday Fever brought it to my attention. Size wise I think that I am making good progress. I feel like my girlfriend tells me all the time that SOMETHING looks big or bigger. Like my arms or shoulders or something. Always a good feeling. Especially since she sees me everyday. Yeah I have gained a good 10 lbs. or so I guess. Well a month or two back I was around 198-202 lbs. on the scale at my house. Now I am around 208-211 lbs. on that scale. So its all good. But I think that scale is actually down a good bit. Because at the gym and at my work I weigh around 216-219 lbs.

MonStar
11-25-2002, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Otter
A prescription drug, exactly. Meant for people who actually NEED to prevent fat spillover because of their metabolism. You can prevent the fat spillover very easily and without the aid of a prescription drug.

A good point Otter Ill hand it to ya'. I mean I agree that it is intended as an anti-obesity drug but that doesnt mean that its stupid for me to take it. Its good for any natural bodybuilder who is bulking up taking in a surplus of calories. As it is a well known fact amongst bodybuilders that during a bulk cycle one will most likely gain fat and muscle. Well hopefully with the aid of glucophage that will be just muscle.


A question ... how long before you dabble with AS? You started with mere supplements and are now getting into prescription drugs. If you really want to add size without adding fat, why not just take it all the way?

I will never, never dab into the world of anabolics. I swear on my friggin' life that I wont ever cross the line. I am not getting into perscription drugs at all I am trying one perscription drug to see what happens. It is not unsafe, nor does it have side-effects, nor is it ANY form of anabolic. I have read in numerous places that eventually it will be on the shelves of supplement stores as a fat-burner. So obviously its nothing too drastic. Think what you want Otter, but I know myself. And I know what I will and wont do.

MonStar
11-25-2002, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Workhorse
Mike, your workouts look great... and you say my weights are impressive... they cower in the shadow of your numbers!! :D

Workhorse

Nah WH not at all man what the hell are ya talkin' about? My strength isnt anything spectacular at all. My rack deads and squats seem to be decent but nothing GREAT. I mean great strength is chris mason's or Belial's---not mine. Not yet at least. I hope to get as strong as those guys eventually. That would be friggin' awesome. I would love to throw around 315 lbs. BB rows, 600 lbs. rack deads, and 450 lbs. squats. Not to mention 205 lbs. skullcrushers, 165 lbs. curls, and 275 lbs. incline presses. Now those #s would be impressive.

captain piddles
11-25-2002, 09:51 PM
I will never, never dab into the world of anabolics. I swear on my friggin' life that I wont ever cross the line. I am not getting into perscription drugs at all I am trying one perscription drug to see what happens. It is not unsafe, nor does it have side-effects, nor is it ANY form of anabolic. I have read in numerous places that eventually it will be on the shelves of supplement stores as a fat-burner. So obviously its nothing too drastic. Think what you want Otter, but I know myself. And I know what I will and wont do.

you held me back once and I thank you for it
keep natural
not alot of us around

MonStar
11-25-2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
I was waiting for the pain/soreness from yesterdays workout :)

Haha hell yeah man! Those friggin' squats and power squats give me terrible DOMS. Generally my quads and glutes are just insanely sore the next day. Not too bad today though. I mean theyre sore but since I took in around 7000+ calories yesterday I think that really helped with my DOMS. LOL.


Leg workouts tend to be killers, i.e. cant walk straight, with limp etc... But its all worth it.

Ive been doing some reading on the Metaformin and it sounds really useful and promising. It also seems pretty safe (always a bonus). The only downside in my point of view is the cost, i dont know about the US but over here, its totally out of my league (esecially being a tax-dodging student :) )

Maybe one for the future though. talk later M

Oh wow BR. I didnt know that you werent from the United States. Where are you from man? Thats crazy. Believe it or not I stumbled upon a few websites (especially Canadian) that sold it extremely cheap. I am getting mine from Florida and I payed $.10 for each tablet. So I ordered 250 tabs which came up to $25. Nothing too bad. I mean 250 tabs taking one 2x per day will last me a good 4 months or so. Enough time to determine whether or not its effective obviously.

And yes surprisingly Metformin is extremely safe. Seems too good to be true! Cant wait to get started on it. Really looking forward to it getting here the next few days. I would LOVE for it to get here before Thanksgiving but I am not sure that it will.

MonStar
11-25-2002, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by captain piddles
you held me back once and I thank you for it
keep natural
not alot of us around

Hey thanks a lot CP!! Appreciate it man, seriously. Yeah I know there are DEFINITELY not many of us naturals left, at all. Not insult or downplay another WBB member but I never, ever, EVER, thought that BCC was going to dab into anabolics. I dont know why I just never thought he would. I dont even know if he said that or not. Oh well. Stay natural man---seriously. No matter what. Youll live a longer, healthier life.

Otter
11-25-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by MonStar
Its good for any natural bodybuilder who is bulking up taking in a surplus of calories.

So is a clean bulk. Bulking doesn't have to involve fast food and ice cream. Natural bodybuilders trying to limit fat gain don't binge on fast food and candy, they binge on chicken, peanut butter, steaks, ground beef, pasta, etc....


I am not getting into perscription drugs at all I am trying one perscription drug

Do you not see the contradiction in this sentence? You say you're not getting into prescription drugs, but you are trying a prescription drug. Am I wrong in saying that you clearly ARE getting into prescription drugs? Steroids can also be prescription drugs, that's the only reason I asked. Why stop with a prescription fat inhibitor?


And yes surprisingly Metformin is extremely safe.

I'm curious how you know this to be fact ...

Saturday Fever
11-26-2002, 12:20 AM
I'm curious why you continue to think you can make a difference. Offer your opinion. If someone is interested they'll express interest. If they don't want it, then stop trying to force it on them. I don't agree with using whatever this stuff is, but that has been voiced and he's still giving it a try. So what are you trying to do? Your voice has already been heard.

Maki Riddington
11-26-2002, 12:43 AM
Maybe he continues because he feels that Monstar is blinded by an obsession and a disorder? Maybe in fact he is actually doing Monstar a service?

If someone is uneducated then it doesn't hurt in shedding some education on the topic. Or is it better to express ones opinion and then leave? If someone is in need of help how are they to know this if we never work on helping them understand.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Otter
So is a clean bulk. Bulking doesn't have to involve fast food and ice cream. Natural bodybuilders trying to limit fat gain don't binge on fast food and candy, they binge on chicken, peanut butter, steaks, ground beef, pasta, etc....

I know I can understand your point Otter but I just disagree completely. I dont think that it matters what kind of food youre taking in. Calories are calories---regardless of the source if you ask me. I know thats just a personal opinion but I really believe that. It has really been true in my experience as well.


Do you not see the contradiction in this sentence? You say you're not getting into prescription drugs, but you are trying a prescription drug. Am I wrong in saying that you clearly ARE getting into prescription drugs? Steroids can also be prescription drugs, that's the only reason I asked. Why stop with a prescription fat inhibitor?

I can also see your point here Otter, I really can. I am not saying that I agree with you but I am saying that I can understand where youre coming from with your points. It makes sense to me what youre saying. I cannot say that I agree however, because I know that I wont ever dab into anabolics. Your right a perscription drug is bigger step than an herb or supplement from GNC.


I'm curious how you know this to be fact ...

How do I know what to be fact? Sorry.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I'm curious why you continue to think you can make a difference. Offer your opinion. If someone is interested they'll express interest. If they don't want it, then stop trying to force it on them. I don't agree with using whatever this stuff is, but that has been voiced and he's still giving it a try. So what are you trying to do? Your voice has already been heard.

I agree SF. Voicing your opinion is all that you can do, and honestly that is all thats really necessary to be honest. Regardless of how many times you state your opinion its not going to change anything. For example if I told an anabolic steroid user that I was against anabolics over and over again that would not change what he thought of them. Everyone's opinion is different. And in the same respect, most people have an opinion for a reason. That isnt going to be changed too quickly.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 05:56 AM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Maybe he continues because he feels that Monstar is blinded by an obsession and a disorder? Maybe in fact he is actually doing Monstar a service?

If someone is uneducated then it doesn't hurt in shedding some education on the topic. Or is it better to express ones opinion and then leave? If someone is in need of help how are they to know this if we never work on helping them understand.

I dont feel that I have any kind of problem at all. Okay my diet isnt great. Thats fine. Its just a personal opinion that it does not matter where the calories are coming from. The majority of you guys here at WBB dont agree with my opinion. Thats fine. Then let me do what I agree with and you guys can do what you agree with. I have been getting good results with this way of eating. So I dont feel that there is anything wrong with it at all. I know that you guys are probably thinking, 'well if you ate THIS way you would get even better results.' I doubt it.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 07:44 AM
_______________________________________
DAY 14
Tuesday, 11-26-2002
_______________________________________


GENERAL COMMENTS
Today I am actually pretty damn busy. I have Push this morning and then I have two classes today. Psychology from 10-12:30, and then Math from 1:30-4. Nothing TOO bad but still I am pretty busy. Then I have to run to a speed shop to get a throttle body spacer installed on my car. Just supposed to help with gas mileage and horsepower a little bit. Nothing TOO big of a deal. Not into the whole hookin' up my car thing like some faggot in Fast and the Furious.

At this rate I am training Pull again on Friday, I believe. And then if my legs are okay by tomorrow, then I should have Legs on Saturday I believe. I cant tell if theyll be sore tomorrow or not though. So well see what happens.

PAIN/SORENESS
Eh, still sore today. Legs are still friggin' aching. Actually a good deal less sore than yesterday though so I think I should be fine tomorrow. This is day (2) of negative traces in my legs. So hopefully tomorrow they should be fine.

DIET/SUPPLEMENTS
Preworkout: orange juice, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g vitamin C, 400 IU vitamin E, 5cc Liquid Clenbutrx
During Workout: 20 oz. Gatorade + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 1/2 tsp. salt
Postworkout: 1/2 serving Cell-Tech, 500 mg. ALA, 1 serving whey protein
Meal 4: 2 Wendy's cheeseburgers, 1g ester-C, 400 IU vitamin E
Meal 5: twizzlers candy
Meal 6: 2 meatball sandwiches, soda
Meal 7: ice-cream, multi-vitamin/mineral, 1g ester-C, 400 IU vitamin E, 2 Xenadrine RFA-1
Meal 8: choclate milk
Meal 9: skim milk

Estimated Calories: ~4000

TRAINING---PUSH
Incline Barbell Presses:
235x3!+2 (assisted), 185x12
Some DAMN hard sets of inclines today. Awesome strength here though! New PBs all over the firggin' place in this workout. Started off with 235 for a triple on my own, +2 from my spotter. Guy BARELY gave me any help at all and it friggin' killed me. Chest was dead and so were my triceps. 235 didnt feel that bad. As of now at this point my 1RM for inclines is probably ~250 lbs. Not too great obviously. I hope to get my strength up on inclines in the future. Dropped down to 185 for 12. GREAT strength here! Last week I hit failure at 185x9, and then had +1 assisted. Today I got 12 on my own. Good improvement if you ask me. I actually shocked myself with my strength on 185.

Flat Dumbbell Presses:
100x4.5, 90x5
Eh, nothing new here. For some reason my f*ckin' pecs just fail at 4.5 reps with the 100s. Well today my pecs were shot from the incline presses and I also barely took any rest at all. But seriously, I need to get my flat DB strength up. Not too good at this point. Dropped down to the 90s with barely any rest and only got 5 reps. No surprise here. My pecs were beat. Actually down 1.5 reps with the 90s. Oh well. Inclines fried my chest completely, especially that first set of inclines. Going to definitely keep these weights next week.

Flat Dumbbell Flyes:
65x6!, 55x8
A good increase here from last week I think. Although I wont be increasing next week on flyes. Used the 65s for 6 reps which was good I think. Form and ROM were both excellent. Really hit my pecs hard. Little bit of shoulder discomfort unfortunately. Oh well. Dropped down to the 55s for 8. Good sets here. Chest was destroyed and pumped as hell though!! Definitely a 'mind-blowing pump.' LOL.

Standing Cable Crossovers:
80x10!
Good set here of cable crossovers. Contracted my pecs hard with this set. Got 10 reps which was good I think. +2 reps from last week which is a nice improvement. Really hitting failure here no questions asked. I probably hit failure at 9 reps because the 10th rep wasnt all that great. Good set though. Pecs were completely destroyed.

Dropset
Seated Machine Side-laterals:
140x10, 110x8, 80x8
Didnt feel like going through all this stupid lateral exercises so I just decided to hit up a quick dropset for my side-delts. Used Nautilus side-laterals and they got the job done nicely. Used 140 lbs. for 10 reps and then immediately dropped to 110 for 8, and then 80 for 8. No rest in between the sets obviously. Delts were FRIED. Wow, great lactic acid buildup in my delts. Ow.

Lying Barbell Extensions (to neck):
190x3!, 135x6
New PB on skullcrushers!! I was REALLY happy with my strength here today. Good sets. Started off with 190 lbs. for a triple. Damn good power and strength here. Felt strong in this exercise. Lowered the BB right down to my neck and exploded back up with the weight. Failed on 3 reps completely. Going to keep this weight next week---I know that I am not yet ready for an increase. Not yet at least. I would love to hit 205 lbs. skulls (to my neck) by January 1, 2003. I am not sure if I have that in me though. Dropped down to 135 for 6. Good strength here I think also. Going to keep both of these weights next week.

Seated One-arm Dumbbell Extensions:
40x6/6!
Nice strength here. Maybe a bit TOO heavy on this exercise. My form and ROM and all that was good but I am thinking that maybe I am going a little too heavy because I am struggling to feel this exercise in my triceps as much as I would like to. Oh well. Going to keep a 40 lbs. DB until I get 10 reps with it. Got 6 reps on each arm which was really good I think. Triceps were out of gas after this set. Damn.

Overhead Rope Cable Extensions:
140x7!
Nice finishing exercise for my triceps today. Crushed my triceps 100%. Really contracted them hard with some really good form and all that on rope ext. Up 1.5 reps from last week which is good I think. Nice increase in strength. Hit failure last week, and today, on this exercise. Triceps were so damn exausted after this set. They were pumped, and dead. Good set.

TRAINING LENGTH
30 minutes

SLEEP
7 hours

WEIGHT
209.5 lbs. (home)---219 lbs. (gym)

MISCELLANEOUS
Training went DAMN well I thought this morning. Rushed my workout a big though to be honest. Not sure why. Just thought that I was going to be late to school LOL. Oh well. Good length. Rest periods were almost non-existent. Sleep honestly SUCKED last night. Not sure why. Just woke up a few times felt like my head was congested. Weight was pretty damn high this morning both at my house and at the gym. So I can tell that I am packin' on the pounds.

Otter
11-26-2002, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
I'm curious why you continue to think you can make a difference.

I'm curious why you are responding to me. My comments weren't towards you, they were towards Monstar. But if you really must know why I continue, let me try to explain it ...

1. This kid has loads of potential.
2. He'll do anything to get an edge, including using a prescription drug. He's done a lot without getting into AS, and I'd like to see him stay that way. But I can already see him heading down a dangerous road ... should I not offer my opinion and try to make him see that? Read some of his posts. He says he'd never think about using AS, but he's already going to start playing around with prescription drugs. Tell me you don't honestly see the next step.
3. He's going to use a prescription fat inhibitor because he can't control his eating. I call that a problem, Maki seems to understand why it's a problem, and we're just trying to get HIM to see that. Instead of eating big and clean, he's going to continue eating $hitty foods and rely on a drug to maintain his BF%. Whether he recognizes it or not, I believe (as do many) that he has a very mild eating disorder. Is it wrong to try and help him through that? If you saw a stranger about to jump off a bridge, wouldn't you at least try and talk them down, regardless of whether or not you were close with that person?

So, that's where I'm coming from, and that's why I continue. If I were him, I'd be glad that someone gave a $hit about helping me out with suggestions. And God forbid that person would be a little sarcastic towards me once in a while to force me to see how silly the things I was doing were.

If you have any more questions for me, PM me ... I don't want to continue responding to you in Monstar's journal.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Otter
I'm curious why you are responding to me. My comments weren't towards you, they were towards Monstar. But if you really must know why I continue, let me try to explain it ...

1. This kid has loads of potential.
2. He'll do anything to get an edge, including using a prescription drug. He's done a lot without getting into AS, and I'd like to see him stay that way. But I can already see him heading down a dangerous road ... should I not offer my opinion and try to make him see that? Read some of his posts. He says he'd never think about using AS, but he's already going to start playing around with prescription drugs. Tell me you don't honestly see the next step.
3. He's going to use a prescription fat inhibitor because he can't control his eating. I call that a problem, Maki seems to understand why it's a problem, and we're just trying to get HIM to see that. Instead of eating big and clean, he's going to continue eating $hitty foods and rely on a drug to maintain his BF%. Whether he recognizes it or not, I believe (as do many) that he has a very mild eating disorder. Is it wrong to try and help him through that? If you saw a stranger about to jump off a bridge, wouldn't you at least try and talk them down, regardless of whether or not you were close with that person?

So, that's where I'm coming from, and that's why I continue. If I were him, I'd be glad that someone gave a $hit about helping me out with suggestions. And God forbid that person would be a little sarcastic towards me once in a while to force me to see how silly the things I was doing were.

If you have any more questions for me, PM me ... I don't want to continue responding to you in Monstar's journal.

Okay Otter I can see what youre saying. I really appreciate you caring about anything to do with me by the way. I mean I really appreciate that seriously. Its just that 9 out of 10 times it comes across as being completely negative towards me. Thats all. I understand what youre saying about the perscription drug. Maybe its not a good idea. I dont know yet. I am going to give it a shot and see what I think. I have read up tons on it and really think that it could be a valuable addition to anyone's training/diet regimen. I know that I am eating bad etc. I know that, you dont have to tell me that. I enjoy eating this way. I am 19 years old Otter, I want to live my life. I mean honestly I dont want to live a life full of chicken and rice and steak and potatoes. Not yet at least. Maybe in 5 years I will be more dedicated and feel differently about this entire diet subject. But at this point---I can say that counting my calories ONLY, has worked great. I think that as long as you have ample calories nothing else really matters. I mean if youre not taking in enough calories then it is understandable because obviously you wont make gains. Youll lose weight instead of gaining it, etc. I feel better than I have EVER before. I used to eat clean and then binge, over and over and over. Now I feel great, and I am happier. My girlfriend will admit to this 100%. She said that before the only time I was in a really good mood etc. was when I was binging. Obviously not the life that I want to live.

WillKuenzel
11-26-2002, 08:02 AM
Nice workout man!! Nice job on inclines.

Is your sternum still bothering you from doing dips? I know you mentioned somewhere why you had quite doing 'em and I was just wondering.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by HomeYield
Nice workout man!! Nice job on inclines.

Is your sternum still bothering you from doing dips? I know you mentioned somewhere why you had quite doing 'em and I was just wondering.

YES! My sternum friggin' kills me when I do dips. I had to drop them completely. I got fairly strong on them. Got all the way up to +180x1 at my strongest point ever. Havnt done them since them though. I think four plates around my waist just destroyed my sternum for good. Cant get over how badly I messed up my sternum with dips. It hurts all the time now even during other exercises. Learned my lesson, thats for sure.

EDIT: By the way, thanks for the comments about my workout. Yes incline strength was an improvement from last week. So its all good. Thanks HY.

Pup
11-26-2002, 08:06 AM
*But at this point---I can say that counting my calories ONLY, has worked great. I think that as long as you have ample calories nothing else really matters.*

Mike, you are taking a prescription drug to curb your fat gain and yet you make the above statement, have you researched the drug, do you know whether or not its harmful in conjunction with certain chemicals, trans fatty acids in all that hydrogenated oil you're consuming are chemicals, have you stopped to think that you may be seriously harming your vital organs.

McBain
11-26-2002, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
I dont want to live a life full of chicken and rice and steak and potatoes..................................I feel better than I have EVER before. I used to eat clean and then binge, over and over and over. Now I feel great, and I am happier.

AMEN!

monstar while im a year younger than you in age and a few in terms of strength (bastard :D ) i know exactly where you're coming from. being happy is where it's at, im glad you figured this **** out. things seem to be sounding more positive (maybe its just me??) now that you know how you want to run things.

later dude.

Paul Stagg
11-26-2002, 08:23 AM
Mike -

What are the potential side effects of the drug you are going to use?

Lifting looks great.

TMan
11-26-2002, 08:35 AM
"Metformin (Glucophage®), predominantly keeps the liver from producing excess glucose, but is thought to have additional actions such as to increase the utilization of glucose by skeletal muscle and fat tissue. It is beneficial in many obese diabetics who often display insulin resistance. Metformin rarely causes low blood sugar and tends to cause small decreases in plasma triglycerides and cholesterol.

GI side effects are common and include loss of appetite, nausea/vomiting, abdominal discomfort, gas and altered taste. These side effects may decrease with long-term use. Rarely, metformin is associated with elevated lactic acid in the blood referred to as lactic acidosis. Ingestion of alcohol increases the risk of developing lactic acidosis. Patients receiving this drug are educated as to the symptoms of this side effect.

Women with polycystic ovary disease often have high levels of insulin that may be involved in stimulating androgen (male hormone) production. There is some evidence that metformin may reduce the symptoms and improve other hormone imbalances that are involved."

Otter
11-26-2002, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by MonStar
I think that as long as you have ample calories nothing else really matters.

This is where you way of thinking fails. Like I said, if you eat 5 pieces of candy @ 20 calories each, you have eaten 100 calories. A 4 oz. chicken breast also has 100 calories. Do you honestly believe that there isn't a difference between the two?

I understand you not wanting to eat super clean at your age, I wouldn't either ... hell, I don't now. My main problem isn't specifically with WHAT you eat, it's with the fact that you're going to use a prescription obesity drug to attempt to negate the impact of your poor eating habits ... and to ease your mind when you have one of those pig-out days like you spoke of.

TMan
11-26-2002, 09:30 AM
Also, in my limited research into Metformin, I discovered that Metformin was prescribed to help reduce the testosterone levels in women. That pretty much made up my mind right then and there that Metformin was not for me. I don't know if it would reduce the test levels in men but I wasn't willing to find out.

Silverback
11-26-2002, 01:06 PM
Gr8 workout Mike (yet again :)) the Barbell presses were simply inspirational, exactly what im espiring to. The remainder of the workout was also super, + skullcrushers were heavy metal fella!

I cant believe you didn't think i was wrong the usa, im from England (unfortunately; in a bodybuilding sense)

Hell there has been quite a debate from otter's comments that has arisen. My thoughts are like this; you are gaining strength, muscle and confidence with little fat. There is no problem with that at all. Whether your diet is seen as unhealthy is fair but you are happy and that is what matters. Besides your 18/19 still young, look a the majority of 18/19 yr olds their diets suck big time and as they age they will be at a far greater risk of disease/illnesses.

Whereas Mike you have time to alter if you wish and you probably will, because your life will go through many alterations.

Another thing is that the unhealthy food is consumed in copious amounts by some of the pro's in mass gain mode i.e. taking take-out MC'D's to the gym! Alright your not a pro but the principles are the same.

I think you have made a great step away from the irregular binges and it is in the right direction, just as long as your happy im happy.

Keep it up Mike :)

Saturday Fever
11-26-2002, 02:04 PM
More PR's. It's no wonder I call Supertraining the Bible of Fitness. Good lifting.

As a sidenote, you may want to take a closer look at Metaformin. Everything I read says it will almost cripple your testosterone production, and generally it is prescribed for women by their OBGYN.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by just_a_pup
Mike, you are taking a prescription drug to curb your fat gain and yet you make the above statement, have you researched the drug, do you know whether or not its harmful in conjunction with certain chemicals, trans fatty acids in all that hydrogenated oil you're consuming are chemicals, have you stopped to think that you may be seriously harming your vital organs.

From everything that I have read glucophage is completely safe. I mean in non-diabetics for the most part the biggest effect that it had was weight-loss. More than anything else. This is only what I have found. I have found that it may seriously cause an increase in insulin sensitivity.


Glucophage slows the release of sugar from the liver and improves the muscles’ ability to use insulin. It may be used alone or in combination with another class of diabetes drugs called sulfonylureas (glyburide and glipizide) or insulin. Glucophage does not affect insulin production, so it doesn't cause low blood sugar (a potentially dangerous condition also known as hypoglycemia).

This is a fairly good summary of what glucophage does.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by McBain
AMEN!

monstar while im a year younger than you in age and a few in terms of strength (bastard :D )

LOL---dont worry McBain, youll catch up. Seriously all of you guys who are a little less strong than I am, will catch up in no time. Just dont get down on yourself and hang in there!---bastard! :D:D


i know exactly where you're coming from. being happy is where it's at, im glad you figured this **** out. things seem to be sounding more positive (maybe its just me??) now that you know how you want to run things.

later dude.

Yeah exactly McBain I am glad that someone finally sees where I am coming from. I just want to be happy, thats all. Nothing else, nothing more. I mean whether thats eating nothing but CRAP all day or eating nothing but steak and potatoes, I want to be friggin' happy. I am 19 years old there is no reason at all why I shouldnt be completely happy. Seriously.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
Mike -

What are the potential side effects of the drug you are going to use?

Lifting looks great.

Hey thanks a lot Paul. Appreciate you chiming in here. The potential side-effects are the following:


These side effects usually go away after your body gets used to taking the medicine for several weeks. These include mild diarrhea, nausea, or upset stomach. Taking Glucophage with meals can lessen side effects. Call your health care provider if you experience severe discomfort or if the side effects last longer than a few weeks.

As you can see the side-effects are honestly nothing too horrifying. I mean honestly if I dont care for the product then I will drop it. Like everything else. I will continue to do what I like---and stop doing what I dont like. Thats all there is to it to be honest.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by TMan
"Metformin (Glucophage®), predominantly keeps the liver from producing excess glucose, but is thought to have additional actions such as to increase the utilization of glucose by skeletal muscle and fat tissue. It is beneficial in many obese diabetics who often display insulin resistance. Metformin rarely causes low blood sugar and tends to cause small decreases in plasma triglycerides and cholesterol.

GI side effects are common and include loss of appetite, nausea/vomiting, abdominal discomfort, gas and altered taste. These side effects may decrease with long-term use. Rarely, metformin is associated with elevated lactic acid in the blood referred to as lactic acidosis. Ingestion of alcohol increases the risk of developing lactic acidosis. Patients receiving this drug are educated as to the symptoms of this side effect.

Women with polycystic ovary disease often have high levels of insulin that may be involved in stimulating androgen (male hormone) production. There is some evidence that metformin may reduce the symptoms and improve other hormone imbalances that are involved."

Thanks for the quotes TMan, appreciate it. Yeah the biggest thing that I noticed is that the studies that suggested glucophage lowered testosterone levels in women all seemed to be a lot of bullsh*t. I mean none of them seemed to be 100% valid if you ask me. Just a personal opinion I guess. But I doubt the glucophage will negatively affect my test levels. Well see what happens. Ill try and keep track of my sex drive and things of that nature while on glucophage.

MonStar
11-26-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Otter
This is where you way of thinking fails. Like I said, if you eat 5 pieces of candy @ 20 calories each, you have eaten 100 calories. A 4 oz. chicken breast also has 100 calories. Do you honestly believe that there isn't a difference between the two?

I understand you not wanting to eat super clean at your age, I wouldn't either ... hell, I don't now. My main problem isn't specifically with WHAT you eat, it's with the fact that you're going to use a prescription obesity drug to attempt to negate the impact of your poor eating habits ... and to ease your mind when you have one of those pig-out days like you spoke of.

Okay Otter I can understand where youre coming from man. That you do not want me to start a perscription drug simply because I am not dedicated or disciplined enough to just cut back on my food. I am not sure whether thats the case or not. We will soon see though obviously because I am going to start glucophage and see what I think of it. From everyone who has taken it the biggest concern is the decrease in appetite and the digestion problems. I am not sure if that will be a problem for me or not. Generally, I respond very well to most things. For example I never had a problem with ephedrine or creatine or anything of the sort. Many people I speak to (I work in a supplement store) experience all kinds of problems with creatine/ephedrine. Here is a study about glucophage and weight-loss.


METFORMIN (GLUCOPHAGE) FOR WEIGHT LOSS

Gabe Mirkin, M.D.

Metformin, sold under the trade name Glucophage, is used to treat diabetes, but several recent papers show that it also helps non-diabetics to lose weight by reducing hunger (1).

You may be overweight because your body makes too much insulin, especially if your store your fat primarily in your belly. When you eat, your blood sugar level rises. The higher it rises, the more insulin your pancreas releases. Insulin makes you fat by acting on your brain to make you hungry, your liver to manufacture fat, and the fat cells in your belly to fill with fat. So the treatment for this type of obesity is to avoid foods that cause the highest rise in blood sugar and to take medications that prevent your blood sugar levels from rising too high. Avoid bakery products, pastas and all foods made from flour, fruit juices and everything with added sugar. Eat fruits and root vegetables such as potatoes only with meals.

After you eat, sugar goes from your intestines into your bloodstream, and then immediately into your liver. Then your liver releases sugar back into your bloodstream to cause your blood sugar level to rise. To keep blood sugar levels from rising too high, your pancreas release insulin into your bloodstream. Insulin makes you hungry all the time and causes your liver to convert extra calories to fat and it constricts arteries to cause heart attacks. You need insulin to keep blood sugar levels from rising too high to cause diabetes, nerve damage, heart attacks, strokes and kidney damage. Glucophage reduces sugar release from your liver to prevents blood sugar levels from rising too high, so your body doesn't need to produce as much insulin that makes you hungry and causes your liver to make fat (3,13,14).

Glucophage lowers insulin levels (4), prevents many of the side effects of diabetes and can be used by people who want to lose weight. However, Glucophage is not effective when your blood is acidic from excess lactic acid and recent research shows that exercise, which raises lactic acid, does not cause blood acid levels to rise enough to reduce Glucophage's benefits (5). Glucophage, itself, does not raise blood lactate levels and is therefore considerably safer than doctors originally thought. Since Glucophage lowers insulin, diabetics should be placed on Glucophage to lower their requirements for all other medications used to treat diabetes (6).

MonStar
11-26-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by TMan
Also, in my limited research into Metformin, I discovered that Metformin was prescribed to help reduce the testosterone levels in women. That pretty much made up my mind right then and there that Metformin was not for me. I don't know if it would reduce the test levels in men but I wasn't willing to find out.

I read this in a few places too actually. I didnt pay much mind to it because first of all every single time it mentioned something of this nature it simply said that it glucophage MAY lower the test and insulin levels in women. Nothing about how it does---or anything of the sort. So I dont personally feel that much can be gathered from these few studies. Just my opinion.

Brittany1016
11-26-2002, 03:38 PM
Babe, you do not need to take anything for fat loss... I think your body is PERFECT now!!! I love you!

MonStar
11-26-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Gr8 workout Mike (yet again :)) the Barbell presses were simply inspirational, exactly what im espiring to. The remainder of the workout was also super, + skullcrushers were heavy metal fella!

Hey thanks a lot BR, appreciate the kind words man. Yeah my incline strength today was actually extremely surprising. I mean it really was surprising to me. I was happy with it. My friggin' skullcrusher strength was decent too I guess. Nothing too thrilling but I was happy. Thanks for the support BR.


I cant believe you didn't think i was wrong the usa, im from England (unfortunately; in a bodybuilding sense)

Hell there has been quite a debate from otter's comments that has arisen. My thoughts are like this; you are gaining strength, muscle and confidence with little fat. There is no problem with that at all. Whether your diet is seen as unhealthy is fair but you are happy and that is what matters. Besides your 18/19 still young, look a the majority of 18/19 yr olds their diets suck big time and as they age they will be at a far greater risk of disease/illnesses.

Whereas Mike you have time to alter if you wish and you probably will, because your life will go through many alterations.

Another thing is that the unhealthy food is consumed in copious amounts by some of the pro's in mass gain mode i.e. taking take-out MC'D's to the gym! Alright your not a pro but the principles are the same.

I think you have made a great step away from the irregular binges and it is in the right direction, just as long as your happy im happy.

Keep it up Mike :)

Thanks a LOT for the support man. Seriously. I agree with what you have said. I am 19 years old and if you look at the diets of those around me you will be impressed with what I friggin' eat. In all seriousness. I have made a pretty good step away from the constant binging so I feel like I have made some progress. My strength in the gym also continues to soar so I must be doing something right. The Model of Training that I am following in combination with a lotta' calories seems to working well. Hopefully by adding glucophage to the entire thing that will make things even better. Well see what happens of course. I do feel like I have gained an appreciable amount of muscle and didnt add much fat. My abs are still visible. Maybe not 100% defined but theyre visible. So thats a good thing. I am just trying to make the most of things and do what makes me happy. Even if I am not eating perfectly clean, etc.