PDA

View Full Version : Diet critique



Shao-LiN
11-20-2002, 01:54 PM
I'm starting my cut soon and just wanted feedback on my diet. I weight about 170 pounds at 5'9" and around 19-20% bodyfat maybe. Goal is to cut down to maybe 10% by spring if it's at all possible.

Meal 1 -
1/2 cup Oatmeal
1 cup nonfat/skim milk
2 whole eggs
4 egg whites OR 2 servings of egg beaters

Meal 2 (preworkout) -
1 serving of Optimum Whey Protein
1/2 teaspoon Creatine

Meal 3 (postworkout) -
1.5 servings of Optimum Whey Protein
25 grams dextrose
25 grams maltodextrin
1.5 teaspoon Creatine
1 tablespoon Glutamine
Vitamins and Amino Acids

Meal 4 (one hour post workout) -
1 serving of Optimum Pro Complex
1 tablespoon MCT Oil

Meal 5 -
5 oz. lean beef, grilled
1/2 cup brown rice

Meal 6 -
2 slices whole wheat bread
2 tablespoons natural peanut butter
4 tablespoons cottage cheese

Meal 7 -
3/4 cup whole wheat pasta
6 oz. chicken breast
1 tablespoon flax seed oil or hemp oil

Meal 8 -
1/2 cup cottage cheese

Off days pretty much the same, except I cut out the pre and postworkout shakes and replace it with some whole food. This comes out to roughly, 2400 calories @ 81g fat, 182g carb, 239g protein. A 40/30/30 split. I'll be gradually lowering this towards 2000 cals. Refeeds on weekends, which I'm still working on.

As for supplements, I'll probably throw in some ALA, l-tyrosine, 7-keto DHEA for the first half. On the 2nd half of my cut, replace the dhea and tyrosine with animal cuts (pumped up EC stack). Comments and suggestions appreciated. :)

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-20-2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Shao-LiN
Meal 2 (preworkout) -
1 serving of Optimum Whey Protein
1/2 tablespoon Creatine

Meal 3 (postworkout) -
1.5 servings of Optimum Whey Protein
25 grams dextrose
25 grams maltodextrin
1.2 tablespoon Creatine
1 tablespoon Glutamine
Vitamins and Amino Acids

Meal 4 (one hour post workout) -
1 serving of Optimum Pro Complex
1 tablespoon MCT Oil


Two questions:

1. you ever considered splitting the post w/o carbs into your pre-workout shake too?

2. What's the reasoning behind the post-post workout meal?

Overall it looks fine. Personally, i'd be left a little hungry after a few weeks on that i reckon. On paper it looks like lots, but it's not really. If you ever get hungry and it becomes so that you think you may break diet, replace the milk with more oats and eat some sweet potato or brown rice instead of the bread.

How many calories are you currently on? If they're high(ish), you're not planning on suddenly dropping them down are you?

(ok, so there's three questions in there, but hey...)

ectx
11-20-2002, 03:07 PM
I don't know as much about diet as you guys, but from what I've read...along the same lines as what chigs just said, wouldn't it be better to do the sugars (esp. dextrose) with the creatine preworkout...and maybe half the protein content preworkout so that it's maybe 15 g of whey...and then you have a regular dose postworkout along with the sugars? I also think you can increase your cottage cheese serving to 1 cup. Again, you guys are better at diet than I am, just some food for thought (pun intentional). G'luck on the cut.

Shao-LiN
11-20-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


Two questions:

1. you ever considered splitting the post w/o carbs into your pre-workout shake too?

Not really, as I've often read that spiking insulin pre-workout wasn't recommended. Is there a reason to include the carbs in my pre-workout shake as well?



2. What's the reasoning behind the post-post workout meal?

You mean the 1 hour post workout? For that one, I've come to understand that I should get protein in at least an hour or 2 after my workout. So, for simplicity, I opted for a Protein blend shake and threw in some fats.


Overall it looks fine. Personally, i'd be left a little hungry after a few weeks on that i reckon. On paper it looks like lots, but it's not really. If you ever get hungry and it becomes so that you think you may break diet, replace the milk with more oats and eat some sweet potato or brown rice instead of the bread.

How many calories are you currently on? If they're high(ish), you're not planning on suddenly dropping them down are you?

(ok, so there's three questions in there, but hey...)

Currently, I'm bulking on 2800-3000 cals. I've since lowered it to 2700 and have been on maintenance, around 2500-2600 for the past week. My next step is 2400 and will probably lower it by 200 each week until I hit 2000. As for the hunger thing, I've actually pulled this type of diet off before on my first cut when I first started reading these boards around the beginning of the year. I don't have much trouble with being hungry. I went for the whole wheat because it just sort of made sense to me since to just pair it with the natty pb and cottage cheese :) . Just make one big sandwich, pack it up and head to school.

As for the cottage cheese, it was more or less to fill my protein needs and as a night time, before the bed meal.

restless
11-20-2002, 04:50 PM
I think it looks good.

My criticisms would be:

Carbs pre workout are a good ideia as long as it is immediately pre wokout, the insulin spike will be curbed during exercise so I would take in some carbs 5 minutes before it. The cortisol lowering properties of pre workout carbs alone justify this practice.


Meal number 4 also seems misplaced to me. At that time I would take advantage of the post workout "window of oportunity" to take in some more carbs.

At the end of the day these details won't probably make much of a difference anyway, but things have to be perfect don't they?:D

Shao-LiN
11-20-2002, 04:56 PM
Hmmm...if I can drum up that article. I dunno, an article I was reading said to keep the meal one hour post workout high in protein, but you want little to no carbs. From the reaction I'm getting, I'd assume they were wrong, hehe.

restless
11-20-2002, 05:04 PM
They aren't wrong. An insulin spike before workout at the wrong time can put you in hypoglycemia and hurt your performance in the gym, that's why you must take them immediately before.

Shao-LiN
11-20-2002, 05:31 PM
I see, so would splitting up 25 grams dextrose pre-workout and 25 post be feasible? Or would you split them differently?

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-20-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Shao-LiN
[B]

Not really, as I've often read that spiking insulin pre-workout wasn't recommended. Is there a reason to include the carbs in my pre-workout shake as well?

I was gonna suggest for a bit more cortisol control, some immediate fuel for your workout. That, and drinking whey on it's own is a sure fire way of getting some sugar in you, since the liver will oxidise a good proportion of the aminos quite nicely :)



You mean the 1 hour post workout? For that one, I've come to understand that I should get protein in at least an hour or 2 after my workout. So, for simplicity, I opted for a Protein blend shake and threw in some fats.

Yeah ok. That's not a problem.

50g of carbs split over two meals isn't gonna cause hypoglycaemia unless you have some sort of insulin-issues. And the whole seritonnin issue from insulin spikes (and thus potentially spoiling your workout via lethargy) can be combatted by taking protein with your carbs. exra aminos at this time would give the tryptophan a bit more competition.

AJ_11
11-20-2002, 10:05 PM
What the difference between the maltodextrin and dextrose?

restless
11-21-2002, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



50g of carbs split over two meals isn't gonna cause hypoglycaemia unless you have some sort of insulin-issues.

True, this is only a concern with large carb meals.

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-21-2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by AJ_11
What the difference between the maltodextrin and dextrose?

Dextrose is the singular molecules of glucose.

Maltodextrin is a small chain of them (between 3 and 8 or so).

bradley
11-21-2002, 02:28 PM
TCD, what are the benefits of consuming half of your simple carbs from dextrose and half from maltodextrin?

Yanick
11-21-2002, 04:10 PM
i'm not totally sure on this, but i've read that dextrose is absorbed quicker than the maltodextrin* so when you get 1/2 from dext and 1/2 from malt you get a sort of 'time released' insulin spike.

As in the dextrose spikes insulin but is gone quickly, then the maltodextrin hits the bloodstream.

*NOTE:I'm not sure on the details, maltodextrin might be the quicker absorbing one of the two or vice versa.

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-21-2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by bradley
TCD, what are the benefits of consuming half of your simple carbs from dextrose and half from maltodextrin?

Depends how much post w/o carbs you're taking.

If it's like 50g then having it all from dextrose is fine.

If we're talking more like 100g then a 50/50 split wouldn't be a bad idea. I dunno where the cut-off point for it is though. Personally, i'd say anything above 75g carbs, go for a mix.

Although that's not to say 50g carbs with a 50/50 split isn't perfectly acceptable.

The rationalé comes down to active transport. Basically, glucose enters the cell via active transport - from which only so much can get through at any one time. Ingesting too much (however much that is) would mean that some/a lot would be oxidised for fuel, when we actually want it to replenish glycogen and kick-start the anabolic processes going as soon as possible at this time.

To pass throgh the intestinal tract, food needs to be in it's simplest form i.e. aminos, fatty acids and glucose. Dextrose (glucose) doesn't need digesting since it's already in the simplest form, so it passes straight through and into the blood stream. So it gets to the cell(s) sooner. Maltodextrin (chains of glucose) takes a little longer since it has to be digested into it's constituent glucose molecules before passing through the intestinal wall. By the time it does, the previous plain ol' glucose has gotten into the cell and so more carriers are available for active transport. Therefore you reduce the amount of carbohydrate used for energy and maximise the amount of carbohydrate used for glycogen replenishment.

The best description i've read on it is likening it to an 'ambush'. Hit the cell with plain glucose, then in time, hit it again.