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seance69ca
12-12-2002, 01:05 PM
What are some recommendations around the proportions of saturated, polyunsaturated, & monounsaturated fats in bb diet?

If, for example, one's fat targets for a day were 100grams of fat (just an easy round number to use) per day, how much of those 100 grams should be saturated, polys, and mono fats?

Shao-LiN
12-12-2002, 03:03 PM
Don't need to be terribly specific with that, honestly. I would just make sure that a majority of your fat content comes from good sources. It usually evens out in the end so that you end up with a majority of mono-, with poly- and saturated following.

I've heard that a 33/33/33 split works well to maintain a balanced hormonal profile, but I haven't personally studied up on the subject.

seance69ca
12-12-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Shao-LiN
Don't need to be terribly specific with that, honestly. I would just make sure that a majority of your fat content comes from good sources. It usually evens out in the end so that you end up with a majority of mono-, with poly- and saturated following.

I've heard that a 33/33/33 split works well to maintain a balanced hormonal profile, but I haven't personally studied up on the subject.

Thanks for your thoughts. Yeah, I'm not trying to be so specific that it becomes a fascination, you know what I mean. I have noticed that literature (from mags, online, etc) urge the emphasis on poly& mono in the diet with an obliteration of saturated. But totally eliminating sat/fat doesn't jive with me.

a third split on each sounds also a bit high in sat/fat. Would anyone support a split of 15/85 (sat/mono&poly)?

LAM
12-12-2002, 03:47 PM
the body does not need much in the way of saturated fats. high density lipoproteins are all the body really needs. remember monosaturated fats are neutral

Tiare
12-14-2002, 09:52 PM
Your body can saturate a poly or mono unsaturated fat if it needs saturated fat. I believe that it can also convert between poly and mono unsaturated, but I haven't seen that chemistry.

body
12-15-2002, 05:03 AM
not sure what my break down is.

But i eat a few foods that are high in poly's and mon's like olive oil and rape seed oil so my satureted % is fairly low. i do not think i get to much hydrogenated or trnas fatty acids.

FinAtrooPer
12-15-2002, 10:30 PM
dont eliminate sat/fat all together it has its purpose just get about 75% of your fats from EFA omega 3-6-9 a tabls of olive oil here and a tabls of fish oil there and your good to go man

hemants
12-16-2002, 04:15 PM
Minimize saturated and hydrogenated fats but not to the point where you get paranoid about it and start avoiding otherwise good foods with small amounts of unfriendly fats in them.

As Tiare said, your body will synthesize exactly what it needs from essential fatty acids but the converse is not true.

restless
12-16-2002, 04:42 PM
Saturated and hydrogenated fats shouldn't be put together like this, in my opinion. Saturated fats are natural, our bodies store fat as saturated. Hydrogenated and trans fats on the other hand
are an man made aberrations that serve no purpose at all.

At the risk of getting involved in another discussion with Hemants, I recomend that you take in a reasonable amount of saturated fat. I'm not risking any percentage but I'll say that It should be enough so that your libido stays as high as possible. Coconut oil is, in my opinion a great saturated fat source.

hemants
12-17-2002, 10:39 AM
FYI even olive oil is around 10% saturated fat so if you're getting enough healthy fat I would suggest that you are getting "enough saturated fat" if there is such a thing.

BTW I don't believe the studies on testosterone isolated saturated fat as a factor because they compared vegans to meat eaters. There are other things in red meat that contribute to higher testosterone such as zinc content.

Also, FYI smoking is known to raise testosterone but I wouldn't start smoking for that reason as it comes down to costs vs benefits.

restless
12-17-2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by hemants


BTW I don't believe the studies on testosterone isolated saturated fat as a factor because they compared vegans to meat eaters. There are other things in red meat that contribute to higher testosterone such as zinc content.



Well, Lyle saying it does so is enough for me to believe. I don't have the time or the patient to go trough every published study so I have to rely on a few selected sources. Like I said to you before, I dismiss most research done on the health impact of saturated fats for various reasons.

hemants
12-18-2002, 08:28 AM
http://www.wannabebig.com/printarticle.php?articleid=89

"Wannabebig: So what would you recommend for a bodybuilder?

Lyle M: Well, flax, (which is a mix of w-3 and w-6 but mainly w-6), straight fish oils (pure EPA/DHA) or something else. To a degree, it depends on the composition of the rest of the diet. Since, on average, most people get too much saturated fat and w-6, flax oil isn't a bad choice, it should help balance out the w-6: w-3 ratio. But, there is some concern about limited conversion of w-3 to the fish oils (which appear to really be the key players) and there is some enzyme competition between w-6 and w-3.

If I had to make the most general recommendation in terms of fatty acids for fat loss, it'd be a mix of olive oil (oleic acid, an w-9 with a neutral effect on fat cell metabolism) along with preformed fish oils (6-10X1 gram capsules per day). Actually, since I can't personally stand the taste of olive oil, I use high oleic safflower oil, which is mostly safflower. To that I add Now Brand Omega 3, 6X1 gram capsules per day (since I'm a little guy, a bigger person would use a higher dose).

Obviously some saturated fats are pretty much inevitable in any but the most restrictive diets but that'd be ideal in my mind. We actually have a significant storehouse of w-6 in our fat cells already (enough to last about a year or so) so there should be no real problem with deficiencies of w-6 over the length of the diet. "

LAM
12-18-2002, 12:51 PM
the RDA says to use a diet no higher than 30% fats and that 50% of those dietary fats should be saturated and the rest polyunsaturated/monosaturated.

Personally I don't agree with that and aim for less than 25% of my dietary fats to be saturated. saturated fats lower insulin sensitivity so I aim for less.

in regards as to how fats effect the body polyunsaturated will negate the effects of saturated fats, and monosaturated fats are considered “neutral”.

seance69ca
12-18-2002, 01:21 PM
i've started this thread & I've been monitoring how it was responded to. Thanks for participating ;)

Clearly, there are differing opinions about the partitioning of the 3 types of fat -- so I'm glad I have asked. Again, I wouldn't dare spend any significant amount of time trying to track to-the-gram how these fats are consumed. Having said so, though, it seems to me that there are advantages to maintaining some level of measured poly&mono fats in daily bb diet (i.e., supplemented through caps or otherwise). Sat fat could be "incidental" to the types of food eaten (e.g., steak, whole eggs, olive oil) but does not require supplementation. Would you agree with this?

Thanks Hemants & Restless for the clarification of things...

BTW: Hemants: Do you supplement w/ coconut oil?

seance69ca
12-18-2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by LAM
the RDA says to use a diet no higher than 30% fats and that 50% of those dietary fats should be saturated and the rest polyunsaturated/monosaturated.

Personally I don't agree with that and aim for less than 25% of my dietary fats to be saturated. saturated fats lower insulin sensitivity so I aim for less.

in regards as to how fats effect the body polyunsaturated will negate the effects of saturated fats, and monosaturated fats are considered “neutral”.

Thanks LAM for the RDA ... I hadn't stated so earlier, but this type of suggested ratio is exactly why I asked the q on this board. As far as I'm concerned, not much of the RDA applies to a bb diet (e.g., protein RDA is like 15% of cal...)

restless
12-18-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by hemants
http://www.wannabebig.com/printarticle.php?articleid=89

"Wannabebig: So what would you recommend for a bodybuilder?

Lyle M: Well, flax, (which is a mix of w-3 and w-6 but mainly w-6), straight fish oils (pure EPA/DHA) or something else. To a degree, it depends on the composition of the rest of the diet. Since, on average, most people get too much saturated fat and w-6, flax oil isn't a bad choice, it should help balance out the w-6: w-3 ratio. But, there is some concern about limited conversion of w-3 to the fish oils (which appear to really be the key players) and there is some enzyme competition between w-6 and w-3.

If I had to make the most general recommendation in terms of fatty acids for fat loss, it'd be a mix of olive oil (oleic acid, an w-9 with a neutral effect on fat cell metabolism) along with preformed fish oils (6-10X1 gram capsules per day). Actually, since I can't personally stand the taste of olive oil, I use high oleic safflower oil, which is mostly safflower. To that I add Now Brand Omega 3, 6X1 gram capsules per day (since I'm a little guy, a bigger person would use a higher dose).

Obviously some saturated fats are pretty much inevitable in any but the most restrictive diets but that'd be ideal in my mind. We actually have a significant storehouse of w-6 in our fat cells already (enough to last about a year or so) so there should be no real problem with deficiencies of w-6 over the length of the diet. "

And??

I never said all your fat intake should be saturated, I just say that the demonization of saturated is not fair and I question a lot of the research done on it.

Personally I get around 30% of my fats from sat because I know, from peersonal experience that less will impair my sex drive.

hemants
12-18-2002, 03:30 PM
"the RDA says to use a diet no higher than 30% fats and that 50% of those dietary fats should be saturated and the rest polyunsaturated/monosaturated. "

LAM, The RDA is not an organization, RDA stands for recommended daily allowance. The USDA recommends 30% of calories from fat and no more than 10% of calories from saturated fat. This is consistent with what the American Heart Association says as well.

Sean - I do not "supplement" with coconut oil because the body can synthesize saturated fat from essential fatty acid intake. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that some saturated fat intake is necessary because it is incidental even in vegetable oils.

With regards to saturated fat, however, coconut oil is different from most others in that it is primarily Lauric Acid (12:0) but each of Lauric, Palmitic (16:0) and the other one (14:0) are known agonists for raising LDL cholesterol. The only saturated fatty acid that doesn't raise LDL is Stearic acid (18:0) but it is impossible to find a food that is primarily stearic acid.

BTW for someone who has low testosterone I believe there are safer methods of raising it than increasing saturated fat intake. eg. zinc intake, heavy compound lifts, reducing body fat.

LAM
12-18-2002, 03:37 PM
I know what the RDA is thanks for clearing that up...:rolleyes:

hemants
12-18-2002, 03:49 PM
Sry Lam, I misunderstood you when you said "the RDA says".

In any case I think the main point was that the 50% figure for saturated fats is not consistent with what I have seen.