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View Full Version : Well done or medium?



AstronautJones
01-22-2003, 03:32 PM
I was pondering this the last time I was at Outback Steakhouse: Does the nutritional value of a steak change depending on how it's cooked? Would a rare steak hold more nutrional value than a steak that is well done?

Wizard
01-22-2003, 04:03 PM
Fact: The biological value of protein is decreased when you over-cook the steak.

bradley
01-22-2003, 04:22 PM
Not to mention the taste decreases the longer you cook it.:)

AstronautJones
01-22-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by bradley
Not to mention the taste decreases the longer you cook it.:)

Good point.

GonePostal
01-22-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Wizard
Fact: The biological value of protein is decreased when you over-cook the steak.

Based on what? Most protiens denature at temps > 40 celcius (btw screw you Americans hehe) which in my mind would make the BV of the protien greater. Also is that not the reason why we as a "higher" race cook our food? To make it easier on our digestive tract?

Wizard
01-23-2003, 07:09 AM
When proteins are heated, some of their amino acids become so denatured (their molecular structure is changed), so that they become almost useless since the digestive enzymes in the gut have difficulty processing them onwards.
A few amino acids can even be destroyed by cooking.

Relentless
01-23-2003, 07:11 AM
besides, as anyone who has ever WORKED in a real kitchen knows, the chefs love people that order well done because that means that they can take the nastiest, mankiest piece of meat in the cooler, the one that has been sitting there since the buffet last august, and carbonize it for sending to your plate.

people that really APPRECIATE a good steak should approve of this because you certainly can't taste much flavour when eating a well done cinder

anything more than medium is a crime

(I like mine still mooing)

ElPietro
01-23-2003, 07:13 AM
Scrape the ice off, slap it on the ass and send it out! :p

Mik
01-23-2003, 07:19 AM
Cut the tail off and hit it with a flashlight!

IceRgrrl
01-23-2003, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Callahan

(I like mine still mooing)

:nod:

Bloody steak and red wine is about as good as it gets...

Tryska
01-23-2003, 08:27 AM
appreciating a bloody steak is all well ad good if you know where your meat comes from, however, when it comes to "mass produced" meat, it would behoove one to get it cooked as well as possible due to the fact that meat processing these days allows for much higher chances of food poisoning. having your meat cooked to a temp that kills of most bacteria when eating from high-volume places is a good strategy.

sweet-physique
01-23-2003, 09:08 AM
Red meat has a high acid PH, therefore unlike most polutry and pork, it is less suseptable to bacterial invasion. One exception is true hamburger, since cross contamination often occurs due to the proccessing or grinding of the meat. With a good quality steak or roast there is little chance that cooking temperature will make a difference in bacterial illness. All meat has its proteins and the natural creatine degraded through cooking. For taste and nutritional punch - rare to medium rare is the way to go. Just my opinion.

Relentless
01-23-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by IceRgrrl


:nod:

Bloody steak and red wine is about as good as it gets...

:nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:

A bottle of 1999 Wolf Blass Brown Label Shiraz
20-25 oz of Grade AAA Angus, somewhere between rare and blue rare
side of yams frites
some mixed salad greens for colour
double espresso and some baklava for dessert

:drooling:

IceRgrrl
01-23-2003, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Callahan


:nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:

A bottle of 1999 Wolf Blass Brown Label Shiraz
20-25 oz of Grade AAA Angus, somewhere between rare and blue rare
side of yams frites
some mixed salad greens for colour
double espresso and some baklava for dessert

:drooling:

Sounds awesome to me...when's dinner? :D

Relentless
01-23-2003, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by IceRgrrl


Sounds awesome to me...when's dinner? :D


Next time there's a group thing in Toronto. :D

Relentless
01-23-2003, 09:22 AM
sadly, the 99 Shiraz is hard to find these days

the '00 is ok, but not quite as tasty

IceRgrrl
01-23-2003, 09:23 AM
Yeah, you owe us from the last time ;) All that food will taste good after football ;) Are you having a special Super Bowl weekend game this week?

Tryska
01-23-2003, 09:54 AM
a little foodhandlign safety info from the department of agriculture:

http://www.openseason.com/annex/library/cic/X0075_safefood.txt.html


take it how you want it, and rationalize what you have to. jsut don't ask for the percentages of fecal matter presently found in the meat you eat.

Workhorse
01-23-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Tryska
appreciating a bloody steak is all well ad good if you know where your meat comes from, however, when it comes to "mass produced" meat, it would behoove one to get it cooked as well as possible due to the fact that meat processing these days allows for much higher chances of food poisoning. having your meat cooked to a temp that kills of most bacteria when eating from high-volume places is a good strategy.
Thank god I get all my meat from my g/f's parents... they live on a ranch and raise all their own meat... mmmmmmmmmm.

Tryska
01-23-2003, 10:14 AM
oh i'm so jealous of you.

if you know where your meat comes from specifically eat it however you want it, but if it doesn't come from a small meatpacking firm, or butchered onsite at a family farm, you really do need to be careful these days.

PowerManDL
01-23-2003, 10:25 AM
*remembers who ordered her steak medium-rare*

:angel:

Tryska
01-23-2003, 10:27 AM
it wasn't me. well-done remember? the dorky waiter scowled at me and told me i was ruining it. i told him to make sure it was dead.

PowerManDL
01-23-2003, 10:27 AM
Oh yeah...that was right before you uppercutted him.

Tryska
01-23-2003, 10:28 AM
well what did you expect? you were too busy popping hyooge boners all over the place.

IceRgrrl
01-23-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Tryska

take it how you want it, and rationalize what you have to. jsut don't ask for the percentages of fecal matter presently found in the meat you eat.

A little dirt is good for the immune system...and if we all lived on farms, we'd be knee deep in a lot more fecal matter than that average city dweller. Farm kids and Third World kids have the best immune systems, if they survive childhood...LOL!

Paul Stagg
01-23-2003, 10:45 AM
Damn tootin.

Workhorse
01-23-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by IceRgrrl
Farm kids and Third World kids have the best immune systems, if they survive childhood...LOL!
LOL :eek:

the doc
01-23-2003, 10:47 AM
icer next deer season i'll come up and kill one and we can start eating it whilst it is still warm

with a bottle of cabernet of course

Reinier
01-23-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by IceRgrrl


:nod:

Bloody steak and red wine is about as good as it gets...

*takes icerr out to dinner*

Relentless
01-23-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by the doc
icer next deer season i'll come up and kill one and we can start eating it whilst it is still warm

with a bottle of cabernet of course

REAL men don't even need to kill 'em

ya just run up beside them and bite them :D

Berserker
01-23-2003, 12:22 PM
One of these day coming home from the bar, I am just gonna pull over, get out of the truck, and run up to one and bite it on the ass. Better to do this in the spring with veal.

Medium rare.

IceRgrrl
01-23-2003, 12:28 PM
Is this a new take on cow tipping? ;)

Tryska
01-23-2003, 12:33 PM
that's true ice, but most of y'all don't have 3rd world immune systems and from what i understand, salmonella e. coli and/or listeria is a b*tch.

ElPietro
01-23-2003, 12:34 PM
Bacteria isn't necessarily a bad thing, so I don't know if that article really says anything about how to cook your meat. I'd rather see statistics of food poisoning contracted from raw/rare/medium rare versus cooked. I'm guessing that you'd get food poisoning from rotten meat, but otherwise it's not going to hurt you. Yogurt is made from bacteria cultures, pretty much everything you touch is contaminated, and even if you cook/sterilize something, once it's exposed to the air it's re-contaminated, so stressing out over stuff like this is a complete waste of time effort. Might as well fear alien abduction too, much worse for you than food poisoning I hear.

IceRgrrl
01-23-2003, 12:46 PM
I grew up working on a farm so I figure my immune system is pretty good. And you're more likely to get salmonella/listeria from eggs or poultry than top quality beef. E.coli is usually associated with hamburger, which as someone mentioned, is contaminated in the grinding process.

Either way, I'll take my chances with a nice rare steak...it's SO good :D

Berserker
01-23-2003, 12:54 PM
I just want to see the fear in the cows eye, when I bite down.

Tryska
01-23-2003, 12:54 PM
it's not food poisoning really, which is caused by buildup of toxins in food typically not cooled down correctly or cross-contaminated, but food-borne illness, which is caused typically by getting meat contaminated by fecal matter (in the case of e. coli and listeria). The reason you ahve to worry about this with mass-produced meat, is because of the assembly line style of the meat-packing plants. One person guts, the next in line hacks off the tail, the next in line does soemthing else, etc, etc. When you have dirty knives getting interchanged, spillage because of te speed of the line, you wind up with cross-contamination along the line.


now pack it in freezer trucks and send it off to kitchens to age. With that aging process, this fecal bacteria gets the chance to multiply. Now granted a lot of it is going to be on the surface layers of steaks and such, however, these bacteria don't die in cold. they start dying above 160 degrees fahrenheit. If you get yourself a bloody steak, and it hasn't been heated tot hat temp, then you've got issue.

It's not that big of a deal if you know where your meat is coming from as i said, but in a restaurant scenario you are pushing your luck, especially lately. The vectors are a bit different now for food-borne illness, and are able to spread and effect more people over a larger area rather quickly.

I may eat less well-done in my own home, but i'm also buying free-range, butchered on premises meats. In a restaurant i want it killed. Actually i'm not a big fan of blood either way, but still.

I think most anyone who's suffered a foodborne illness willt ell ya it ain't fun. *thinks about yates and his raw egg hangup*

IceRgrrl
01-23-2003, 12:59 PM
*shrug* If you're that worried about it, then don't eat it.

It's just not high up on my "things to worry about" list and I still consider rare steak + red wine one of life's great pleasures, right up there with drinking cold beer in the shower after a hockey game and, um...other things. ;)

Tryska
01-23-2003, 01:03 PM
i don't eat it. i'm just giving y'all a heads up as i'd rather not see any of y'all get sick and poop and puke yourselves to shriveled husks of your former selves.


pardon me for the frickin warnin'.

ElPietro
01-23-2003, 01:09 PM
No, how dare you put down red meat!

It is one of life's truly great things, and if I had to go through two weeks of midgets poking me in the eye with red hot needles in order to enjoy my rare steak, I would willingly do so.

:soapbox:

Tryska
01-23-2003, 01:14 PM
:rolleyes:

nevermind. y'all macho types won't even dig what i'm saying until you're puking your guts out for 24 hours straight while something else is spewing out the other end.


as i said before....if you know where your meat is coming from do with it what you will. if you're not quite sure how it was butchered, you're best bet is to keep yourself safe.

i've only said that 3 damn times so far.

ElPietro
01-23-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Tryska
as i said before....if you know where your meat is coming from do with it what you will.

What is this meet that you speak of? :confused:

























Haha, what do I care anyway, I don't even have hands! :D

Tryska
01-23-2003, 01:20 PM
whatever mary.

Relentless
01-23-2003, 01:20 PM
The funny thing is, despite whatever worries people have about bacteria on meat that isn't carbonized, you actually have a decent chance of getting sick from inadequately washed fresh vegetables.

Cantaloupes have been linked to outbreaks of salmonella, as it can be found on the rind of these melons. If you slice through the rind, without adequately washing the outside (even though you're not EATING the rind), you contaminate the fruit.

Other fruits & veggies are risks as well.

Also, to properly sear a steak for serving it rare, you actually want the flames hotter than you'd need to cook it through; the temps get considerably higher than 160, I'm sure.

Relentless
01-23-2003, 01:24 PM
I think a good bottom line is that you take SOME kind of risk every time you eat at a restaurant at which you don't personally know the chef.


Shellfish, for instance, is another matter.

I would never, EVER eat mussels at a restaurant where I did not personally know the chef and/or the restaurant was actually IN the maritimes; if you want to talk about risk of illness from food, poorly prepared mussels are a helluva lot more dangerous than steak.

Tryska
01-23-2003, 01:25 PM
you want the internal temp to be 160 actually.

but anyways, yeah, you gotta watch out for vegetables and fruit as well. restaurant salads can be quite dodgy too.

buffet places are a nightmare for me.

i know i probably come off sounding totally neurotic, but on my list of diseases i don't ever wish to experience are:

Food poisoning/foodborne illness
the black plague
and any sort of sexual infection.

so consequently i try to be choosy about the food i'll eat, and stay away from rats and dirty willies.

Tryska
01-23-2003, 01:26 PM
i've never eaten a mussel actually.... but what i'm saying is along the same lines of what your saying regarding mussels.

Paul Stagg
01-23-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Tryska

so consequently i try to be choosy about the food i'll eat, and stay from rats and dirty willies.

This is damn good life advice.

:)

Tryska
01-23-2003, 01:31 PM
why thank you paulie. i plan on pasing that on to my kids one day. ;)

bradley
01-23-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Tryska
so consequently i try to be choosy about the food i'll eat, and stay away from rats and dirty willies.

I agree with you Mr. Stagg in that these are true words of wisdom
;)

IceRgrrl
01-23-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Tryska
nevermind. y'all macho types won't even dig what i'm saying until you're puking your guts out for 24 hours straight while something else is spewing out the other end.



I'm much more likely to have that happen from picking up one of the many bugs that go through the student population that I work with. And I have my own list of risks that I'd like to manage...but thanks for the input.

Berserker
01-23-2003, 05:36 PM
Kids are disease carrying monsters.
When I get the black plague, I will definitely change my lifestyle.

AstronautJones
01-23-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by bradley
I agree with you Mr. Stagg in that these are true words of wisdom;)

Agreed.

ElPietro
01-23-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Berserker
Kids are disease carrying monsters.
When I get the black plague, I will definitely change my lifestyle.

I better stop eating little children then.

GonePostal
01-23-2003, 11:34 PM
LOL... you have not mentioned the mother of them all
Smallpox. Trust me you don't want that.

Tryska
01-24-2003, 07:49 AM
actually i just don't want the smallpox vaccine. i've still got scars from the last one. :eek:


and lp.....you can get foodborne illnesses from eating people too. I saw it on CSI. some girl was high on crystal meth, and took a chunk out of her cheerleader friend, and wound up with a nasty case of e. coli.

Relentless
01-24-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by ElPietro


I better stop eating little children then.

LOL!

I wondered why you were running around, shouting, "GET IN MAH BELLLLLY!!!" at kids

ElPietro
01-24-2003, 08:39 AM
:cool::cool: