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Fenbay
01-23-2003, 02:07 PM
I've started a CKD diet and I'm trying to figure out how best to maximize work-out intensity and decrease catabloic "downtime".

I'm still in the learning phases of the whole CKD plan, but from my research otherwise I know I want to supply some form of direct energy to my muscles right before lifting AND right after lifting as theoretically if glycogen/glucose <??> are present in the muscles your body will jump back into an anabolic state quicker than if they are still depleted.

I very well may be trying to do two things which are directly opposite of one another?

Main goal at this time is as so many others: strip the fat <lots> and maintain the muscle. I thoroughly enjoy being a "big guy" but I'm ready to start shredding some of this fat so the muscles I know damn well are under there start showing!

Currently 6'1 285 goal 240 SOLID
BB Bench Max ~365 goal 405
Squat ~405 goal ~500

raniali
01-23-2003, 02:36 PM
if you are supplying carbs before and after training, that is more properly referred to as a TKD (Targeted Ketogenic Diet)

a true CKD follows 5 days of no carbs, and 1-2 days carb-binge refeed. training on a ckd is usually the end of carbup to not past the 2nd day of keto, because after that, picking up a pencil is hard. one can make a lot of cutting progress on a ckd, but the first week or two is TOUGH.

there are numerous threads on a proper ckd here ... along with 2 well-written intro articles on the wbb main site. good luck

bradley
01-24-2003, 02:21 AM
Like Raniali said it sounds like you are leaning more towards a TKD, when you say you want to supply carbs pre and postworkout. With a TKD you wouldn't have to change your training routine as much as with a CKD. There are many threads on both topics. Good luck with the cut.

Fenbay
01-24-2003, 06:50 AM
So with a TKD... do you theoretically stay in Ketosis because you burn all the available carbs with your work-outs?

I've read some of the stuff on keto diets already and it gets a bit confusing after awhile. I'm planning on picking up Lyle's book today.

mr_hand
01-24-2003, 09:36 AM
So what does that mean? Are you saying a TKD allows the ability to maintain more muscle while burning fat in regards to a CKD, because of the ability to ingest carbs pre and post workout?

raniali
01-24-2003, 10:07 AM
there are benefits to both and that depends on your situation and preferences.

CKD - keto 5 days, 1-2 day carb binge fest, training is really restricted

TKD - keto everyday, NO carb binge fest, training is relatively normal (you won't be going ultra-heavy though).

being in keto itself causes the body to retain muscle while dieting(unless you are severely undereating).

Fenbay
01-24-2003, 10:08 AM
Yeah...the theory is that muscles depleted of glycogen or glucose, whichever it is, catabolize muscle tissue in order to get the needed sugars after you work them hard. So supposedly if you take in the raw material to replenish those stores your muscles will become anabolic (start building) much faster and stop catabolizing (breaking down) muscle mass during replenishment.

I heard someone claim a difference in 8 hours of catabolization if you dont take in some dextrose versus up to 24 hours with no carbs readily available.....take it with a grain of salt (or maybe sugar in this case)

Oh yeah someone on the board also made the analogy that your muscles don't care if they were working hard to push a tree over to find some grubs to eat or doing supersets with a barbell. All they care about is having the needed energy in them for the next time they have to run from a lion. I thought that was a pretty kewl evolution type analogy.

bradley
01-24-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Fenbay
So with a TKD... do you theoretically stay in Ketosis because you burn all the available carbs with your work-outs?


You will be out of ketosis for a short period of time when performing a TKD. This is relative to the amount of carbs ingested and also to the individual (different people will remain out of ketosis for different amount of times).

bradley
01-24-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Fenbay
Yeah...the theory is that muscles depleted of glycogen or glucose, whichever it is, catabolize muscle tissue in order to get the needed sugars after you work them hard. So supposedly if you take in the raw material to replenish those stores your muscles will become anabolic (start building) much faster and stop catabolizing (breaking down) muscle mass during replenishment.

I heard someone claim a difference in 8 hours of catabolization if you dont take in some dextrose versus up to 24 hours with no carbs readily available.....take it with a grain of salt (or maybe sugar in this case)

Oh yeah someone on the board also made the analogy that your muscles don't care if they were working hard to push a tree over to find some grubs to eat or doing supersets with a barbell. All they care about is having the needed energy in them for the next time they have to run from a lion. I thought that was a pretty kewl evolution type analogy.

:confused:

Shao-LiN
01-26-2003, 08:30 AM
Well yah, your body doesn't know what you're lifting. I could be lifting a stack of heavy toys weighting 100 pounds. Weight is weight.