PDA

View Full Version : How many calories x BW you suggest for a first bulk?



Common
01-30-2003, 04:37 PM
I've never been fat before but i'm not that cut. I'm 170 at 6 foot.

I was thinking anywhere between 2800 and 3500.

Does cycling calories work? Like mini-cutting cycles? Say I do 3500 2 weeks, then 2800 a week, 3500, etc.

I've heard that works well for gaining as much mass as possible with very little fat gain. I'm worried about gaining too much fat though because I don't want to gain a lot of fat thinking wow i'm up to 190... then I cut and basically back where i started because it's mostly fat..

Is variety in diet important? Is eating the same foods everyday bad? Do you think eating a hamburger or chicken nuggets would be bad on a bulk?

I have a lot of other questions too :)

:help:

GIS
01-30-2003, 05:54 PM
It really depends on your level of activity and natural metabolism. If you're 6' 170 I imagine you're no higher than 12% BF so if you really want a serious bulk, aim for 3,500. That's roughly 20x BW. If you're looking for a light bulk, go for 3,00-3,500 calories, but I'd reccomend aiming high and bulking with intensity. It looks like you have a fairly fast metabolism and you'd be surprised how many calories it can take to add mass.

Also try to include between 250-300 grams of protein into yoru diet, but only count egg, casein, meat, and whey sources in that total.

There is a lot of learning to do so just keep browsing the forums, read the WBB articles, and do searches using the WBB search engine.

Common
01-30-2003, 07:13 PM
So for protein, you only suggest eggs, milk, whey, and meats?

What about carbs? Are there really "Good fats" that will help me gain muscle? I don't want to buy any supplments except whey protein.

I think i'll try for 3500 and see how it goes...

What about the cycling and other things :)?

thanks

Common
01-31-2003, 02:58 PM
bump

Common
02-01-2003, 12:14 PM
bump

Nights
02-01-2003, 01:45 PM
Just a thought, but you can probably find out a lot of this stuff by reading the 'diet' part of the forum. Also, reading the main articles on the main page (wannabebig.com). In one of them you find a standard equation to help you figure out your BMR and AMR.

That said, I'd try to find protein from chicken, tuna, eggs, steak, peanut butter, whey and milk.. so, basically what he said.
Fat from milk, peanut butter, eggs
Carbs from whole grain rice, bread.. carbs are easy to get. Their everywhere (which you find out if you do a low carb cut)

And I'm against the whole idea of cycling. Your body gets use to the week of 1800, so it gets use to living off that (so, storing what it needs, burning slower) and then you up calories by 700, so it's got all those extra to store.. and it's already figured out how to live on 1800. My suggest is start slowly adding calories from where you are now, and stop when you get to your desired amount. If you gain too much weight too quickly, lower the cals. If you aren't gaining, slowly go up again. That ought to make it clean enough.

GIS
02-01-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Common
So for protein, you only suggest eggs, milk, whey, and meats?

What about carbs? Are there really "Good fats" that will help me gain muscle? I don't want to buy any supplments except whey protein.

I think i'll try for 3500 and see how it goes...

What about the cycling and other things :)?

thanks

The reason I suggest only counting egg, casein (milk, cottage cheese), whey, and meats as protein sources is because plant protein (soy, wheat, etc) are not complete proteins.

An incomplete protein simply means that the protein in the particular food does not have a complete amino acid profile and do not have the right forumula of them for effecient muscle building. This does not mean the protein is worthless. You can combine incomplete proteins to create a complete protein. Vegans have to do this in order to maintain a healthy diet, but it is much easier to just eat the right proteins as a bodybuilder.

Chances are if you get 250 g protein from the reccomended complete proteins, you're actually getting in upwards of 275 when you consider the combination of incompletes. But don't even take this into consideration and just aim for complete sources and only include them in your protein total. Makes things easier and it's best to underestimate than overestimate.

As for carbs, as night suggested go for complex carbs. These will give you the energy and source of calories to reach your goals, but make sure to go for the most nutritious carbs. Eat brown rice over white rice, whole wheat bread over white, etc. The others are certainly sources of carbs and will still help you grow, but brown rice and wheat bread include more nutrients than the latter.

As for fats, aim for 30% of your calories from fat. EFAs (essential fatty acids) are by far the most important and can be found in natural PB, fish, flax oil, etc. I reccomend investing in flax or cod oil and supplement 1-2 tbs of it a day. EFA's are essential for maintaining testostrogen levels and are a crutial component in muscle development.

Good luck to ya, keep reading/researching, and feel free to ask questions!

Common
02-01-2003, 03:17 PM
well im barely eating anything now.. no idea how many calories, so should I just start at around 2500? then increase 200+ each week? Would it really be bad to start around 3000... ?

GIS
02-01-2003, 03:25 PM
I'd start high and work your way DOWN if you start to put on too much fat.

You're going to put on some bodyfat during a bulk unless you have a crazy metabolism. If you're really concerned about BF, start at 3,000. 2,500 will most likely be too low. You'll want to aim for 500 calories above maitenance, and many people maitenance including mine is nearly 2,500.

3,000 might be a good start, but be willing to go higher.

Common
02-01-2003, 03:52 PM
ok, thanks for the help. What if I am gaining, I could still be gaining fat rather than muscle--is the only way to tell if my lifts are going up too?

bradley
02-01-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Common
ok, thanks for the help. What if I am gaining, I could still be gaining fat rather than muscle--is the only way to tell if my lifts are going up too?

Just keep a check by the mirror. You will be able to tell if you are putting on significant amounts of fat in a short period of time. Another option would be to get your bf tested every couple of weeks or so.

I would up cals slowly until you reach the level that you want to bulk on. Might be too much of a shock to your system if you go from eating 200-2500 cals daily to eating 3500. Just my opinion.

Common
02-06-2003, 04:13 PM
Well i'm not gonna get my bf tested---no money for that and even if it was cheap, I dont think there's anywhere close that does that...

Looking in the mirror, unless I put on a lot of weight like 5-10lbs... I would notice the difference...

If I did just go up to 2800 or even higher fast though, maybe I put on some fat.. but wouldn't it eventually drop because of my fast metabolism? I'm 170 @ 6ft--never been fat.

If i am training hard, eating a lot, and not gaining weight... does that mean I should increase calories (If so, more protein or carbs? both?) or does it just mean i'm lowering my body fat while gaining a little muscle---so it evens out... Less fat weight, more muscle weight--same weight, lower bf%?

bradley
02-06-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Common
If i am training hard, eating a lot, and not gaining weight... does that mean I should increase calories (If so, more protein or carbs? both?) or does it just mean i'm lowering my body fat while gaining a little muscle---so it evens out... Less fat weight, more muscle weight--same weight, lower bf%?

I would say that you are just maintaining and need to eat more. Unless you are new to training or on AAS losing fat and gaining LBM is hard to do, although not unheard of. If you aren't gaining then up your daily cals until you are gaining.

Reinier
02-07-2003, 01:07 AM
you do not have to use a formula with your bodyweight. just add bits of food until your gaining at the speed you want to. prolly about a pound a week or so at your height.

Common
02-07-2003, 03:47 PM
lb/week? For how long? That's 4lbs/month... Which would mean in 6 months, i'd be around 25lbs... How much would my bodyfat go up?

Yea, im a beginner.

bradley
02-07-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Common
lb/week? For how long? That's 4lbs/month... Which would mean in 6 months, i'd be around 25lbs... How much would my bodyfat go up?

Yea, im a beginner.

You can by all means gain weight faster than this but by going slow you minimize fat accumalation. As to how much you bf is going to go up I don't know. Each person is different. Some weeks you might gain more others less. Just monitor your diet and keep a check on your weight and once you start gaining at the desired rate stick with that calorie intake. You will be adjusting calories as you accumalate more mass.

Common
02-08-2003, 12:56 PM
MY goal is to be around 190lbs with 8% Bodyfat.

If I can gain 4lbs/month.. I could do this in a year maybe??

bradley
02-08-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Common
MY goal is to be around 190lbs with 8% Bodyfat.

If I can gain 4lbs/month.. I could do this in a year maybe??

I feel like you could get up to 190 but at 8% bf might be more difficult. Like I said you have to expect some fat gain but how much will depend on how carefully you monitor your diet. I would just let my main goal be to get to 190 which you should be able to do, and then later on worry about getting to 8% bf. Just take it one step at the time. Good luck with it.

Common
02-09-2003, 11:38 AM
If i'm 170 with around 12-15% now.. I would be like 190@ 18-20%? I'd be a fatass... then when I cut i'll probably just be back where I started...

How long does it take to drop the bodyfat by 5-10%? I've heard some say a month or less, some day multiple months.. some say years (although I think these are just lazy guys that sit around on the internet)...

IT should be difficult, but is it possible?

bradley
02-09-2003, 11:57 AM
I would say it is possible. Just concentrate on one goal at the time. Don't fret about bf %. If you are worried about bf then cut first and then bulk. The questions you are asking are impossible to answer seeing as how each person different.

Common
02-09-2003, 01:32 PM
Well since i'm not eating much now anyway it would be hard to cut.

I was thinking of starting otu with just a normal amount like 2800-3500 cals.. maybe I can lower the body fat but keep the same weight---Add muscle, so instead of 170 @ 12, i'd be 170 @ 8 or so..

I think im just gonna bulk though.

Common
02-09-2003, 01:33 PM
well i guess my bulk will have that many cals anyway, so i'd lower it a little if i were doing just adding a little muscle..

Bonny Lad
02-10-2003, 02:46 PM
If you want to be 190 @ 8% then chances are you'll need to get up to 205lbs or so then cut back.

It's fairly simple maths really - say for example you're at 12% bf right now. That means you have 20.4lbs of fat and 149.6lbs of lean body mass. To be 190 and 8% bf you need to be at 15.2lbs fat and 174.8lbs LBM. So you'd need to put on near enough 25lbs of muscle.

In doing that you're likely to put on a little fat. So if you put on your 25lbs of muscle and, say, 8lbs of fat, that would make you about 203lbs in total with 28 or so being fat. You'd then need to lose a stone of fat or so, and you'd be around 190 at 8%.

All that sounds simple enough, of course it's harder in reality. Best bet is to just aim to add weight slowly (as has already been suggested), forget about putting on fat and just grow. If yu can keep adding weight and not too much fat, then keep on adding - go beyond your target weight, then when you cut the fat (again, you'd cut slowly to preserve muscle) you end up back down where you want to be.