First cycle questions?

[CB]

Hey everyone...I'm currently 23, 5'10, 180lbs, 34inch waist, 18% body fat. I've been training seriously for the past two and a half years. Gains have been slow and have come to a basic standstill. I have only trained naturally so far using Cell Tech, Nitro Tech, Hydroxycut, MRP's and a lot of diet and lifting. For a while I considered using andro supplements but I figured if I am going to do that I might as well just juice. After much research on the web I have decided that I want to do a cycle but need some opions from more experienced peeps. I don't have any hook-ups yet cuz I thought I would try to figure out what to take before I go get it.

I only want to use one drug or my first cycle to see how I respond and was wondering what it should be? My goal is to put on maybe 5-10 pounds of lean muscle and get cut up and ripped if possibe. Geting big is not all that important for now and I want the least amount of side effects possible. So any recommendations for what to take, for how long, and in what amounts would be great. I was gonna do a Deca only cycle with some clomid but it seems that a lot of peeps on this board don't recommend deca???...so I was thinking about a cycle of just Equipoise, Tren, Primobolan or possibly even D-bol. Clomid or Nolvadex??? Needles aren't a problem for me, plus orals are worse on the liver so I've heard.

Thanks!:help:

P.S. - The only sources I have to go on are websites, but I don't want to get scammed. Are there any precautions I can take to avoid this.

[Ozzymt]

first off, ignore all people who e-mail you offering you gear now as they will be scammers more than likely. Do not post requesting a source.

As for a cycle, you would not go far wrong with a simple test and dbol cycle IMO.

do an 8 week cycle with the option to continue if gains are still good.

weeks 1-4 30 mg ed dbol
weeks 1-8 500 mg/week test enth.
Clomid, 2 weeks after last test injection and nolva on hand in case of signs of gyno.

Nie, simple, cheap yet affective. You should grow well provided your diet and training are good.

[Power-BB]

How much would a cycle like that cost? Seems like tons of people for the norm go with a dbol/test cycle.

[Ozzymt]

im uk based mate so over here that would cost roughly £150-£200which i believe equates to $250-$350 US depending on how much nolva you bought. That is all based on UK prices so these may vary to your prices, i do not know exactly.

[CB]

Well, money's gonna be a factor but results is are more important, but at the same time I still just want to stick with one drug for my first cycle. I wanna see how I react to just one drug...and considering that I am a beginner I would like to start slow. I am young and have plenty of time to grow. I am in no rush. I just need something to start stimulating gains again. I am really cosidering Equipoise...cause it seems like the best overall for me in terms of my goals. ANy thoughts??? Also..how would cycle EQ by itself? How much for how long? ANy clomid...nolvadex???

[Ozzymt]

if you are going to use 1 compound only then use test IMO. Run a course of sust only doing a jab (250 mg) every 3 days for 8-10 weeks, then clomid 3 weeks after last jab and nolva on hand.

Start with test bro. You won't regret it.

[CB]

Thanks for the rec. I thought about Sust 250...but then again it's not really just one drug but four. Plus I don't want to much bloat or gyno. I just justwant to get lean and muscular for now. I don't really need to get big fast. Plus I want o make gains that wil be manageable afterwards. Don't want to just lose it as fast as it came. Iwant t make solid keepable gains in terms of lean muscle. Any other recommendations???

[Ozzymt]

sust is 1 drug, its just that it has 4 different esters for different release times.

If you want something else you could run deca alone at 400 mg/week. I would definitely run at least 25 mg/day proviron with that to prevent prog gyno and help with mr floppy incase that should arise.

Above deca i would recommend eq though. 400 mg/week for 10-12 weeks. Eq takes a long time to build up to stable blood concerntrations so you could front load the first 2 weeks at 800 mg/week and then drop to 400 for the remainder of the course. You should get little to no water retention and good keepable gains. clomid 3 weeks post last jab

[CB]

Yeah, after some research long reading andresearch I thinkI would rather go with EQ. Tren seems to be too much for now, Primo sems too expensive and too mild, and I guess Deca leaves peeps with a lot of probs...by the way ...what kind of problems can expect to get if I do a Deca only cycle? Just curious? But yea I think I have narrowed it down to EQ or D-Bol. How wuld I do a beginner D-bol cycle?

[Shankerr]

I would run dbol and a test of your choice, I like either enanthate or sustanon.. Run about 30mg dbol ED for weeks 1-4 and about 500mg/wk of test for weeks 1-10

that should do nicely, and make sure your diet is impeccible!

[evil250]

You shouldnt be too concerned about the cost of it......after all, if you quit buying all that Muscletech ****, you will be able to afford anything!!!

[Wolfman]

:withstupi : But with Muscletech, he also gets tanned skin, and amazing body-hair removal:D

[CB]

Hmm...well never though of it that way...about the supplements I mean. Hahaha....yeah you guys are right. Moneys not the biggest issue though...its more about me not getting a limpdick afterwards and or shriveled nuts. I wanna kee the side effects to a minimum...sowhat would yo guys recommend??? Besides Primo...that is. Also...If I start my cycle...should I still be using Cell Tech and Nitro-Tech??? Or should I just stick to the gear alone, real food and Protein Powder???

[BIGDUDE]

If i where you, taking into account that you said you only want to do one drug, i would go with 400mgs of test cypionate or enanthate per week for 10 weeks. you could add dbol in there at 30-35mgs per day for the first 4 weeks to kick start everything. I would recommend that.

this is a great beginners cycle that you will make great gains on given that you workout hard and eat properly. forget the eq, deca, fina, etc.... until you get this first cycle under your belt.

WKS 1-10 test(enanthate or cyp) 400mgs per week
WKS 1-4 dbol 30-35mgs per day

if you choose not to do the dbol its no problem at all, just run the test. my first cycle was 400mgs test enanthate for 10 weeks and i made alot of gains...alot. but if i knew then what i know now, i would have added the dbol.

[CB]

Thanks BigDude...I was actually checking some old threads and now I'm starting to change mind a bit. It pretty much sounds like overall...test is best. So I am actually considering it. But a few q's first....

1. Do I need any clomid/arimidex/nolvadex/hcg to go with the test and if so when and how do I cycle it?

2. My main goal is to get more cut up and leaner and put on a little more lean mass if possible(shooting for 5-10 pounds)? Will test do it?

3. How much can I expect to gain with cycle like that? Will the gains be easy to keep granted that I keep my diet and routine strict?

4. I wanna keep the sides to a min so what kinds of side effects can I expect wit test cycle? Limp dick? Shriveled nuts? Pimples? Bloating?

5. Also how much would a cycle like that run me on average?

[Ozzymt]

1. you will need nolva in case of gyno or if the bloat gets to much. Have enough nolva to run 10mg/day throughout. You will also need clomid for 2-3 weeks post cycle (depending on compound used). Clomid i would run like this

300 mg for 1 day
100 mg for 10 days
50 mg for 10 days

a-dex is OTT for that kind of cycle IMO and HCG you will need to see how your nuts are effected, but on a small cycle of like 400-500 mg/test a week i wouldn't think you would need it.

2. Test will do what you want it to, but you will have to use your diet as your main tool here. Eat clean and healthy and you will get good gains. If you are trying to cut up then i would also advise running the nolva to reduce water retention.

3. How long is a piece of string. To many contibuting factors to give you a straight answer im afraid. But i don't think your 5-10 lbs will be a problem what so ever.

4. Sides will be minimum as you a\re only running small doses. You may get some testicular atrophy, although i doubt it. BLoat might occur, in which case run the nolva as mentioned. You may get some acne, but that will subside post cycle. The only other side will be an outbreak of muscle :)

5. WIll let a US bro answer that.

[BIGDUDE]

i am with ozzy on this one. start the clomid 3 weeks after your last injection of test, in the amounts ozzy laid out.

i would just keep the nolvadex on hand, but i doubt you will need it.

your pecker will not go limp, just the opposite, your sex drive will go through the roof. you may get a few pimples, but with these moderate doses i doubt it, your sides should be minimal.

you will gain anywhere from 15-30lbs, it all depends on your diet and training. how much you keep after you get off also depends on you, if you run your clomid and keep up with your diet and training you can retain a good, solid 85% of what you gain.

the cycle you run really isnt the deciding factor as to whether you get cut or not, thats all on your diet and training. its best to bulk in this cycle, and then next time cut, you cant do both at the same time, at least not optimally. one thing to remember though, is that a bigger muscle will be a much more cut muscle than a small one...........

[PowerManDL]

I'd run arimidex straight through, just for the positive benefits it has. But its probably not necessary.

[CB]

Thanks guys...all this info really helps. I might be able to get some gear pretty soon and from the sounds of it I can get almost anything that a beginner would need. And I have definitely narrowed it down to a test cycle (possibly with some d-bol), or a cycle with just Equipoise. The EQ would be from QV 10ml (200mg/1ml) fo $150. Does anybody know about the Quality of QV products??? Do they Underdose??? If so by how much? Is that too expensive??? Also can I get some opinions as to whether I should take test cyponiate or test enanthate or sust250???

[PowerManDL]

As far as test, if the choice is cyp, enan, or sust, just go with whatever's cheapest.

[BIGDUDE]

I would not run EQ by itself. stick with the test, or, if you really want the Eq, stack it with test.

[CB]

Would this be a light cycle..and would it be possible to make any gains on this??? What about sides effects...do you think there will be any???

Weeks 1-4 15-20mg D-bol/day
Weeks 1-10 250mg test enanthate or cyponiate/week
Then maybe some clomid post cycle...and maybe some Nolvadex/Aimidex??? Do I need any hcg fr such a small amount of test???

I know this is much lighter than some of you guys suggested but at the same time I want to start slow with the juice. I don't want to start out taking big doses, only to want to take even higher doses later on when I do other cycles in th future?

[CB]

Originally posted by Ozzymt
1. you will need nolva in case of gyno or if the bloat gets to much. Have enough nolva to run 10mg/day throughout. You will also need clomid for 2-3 weeks post cycle (depending on compound used). Clomid i would run like this

300 mg for 1 day
100 mg for 10 days
50 mg for 10 days

a-dex is OTT for that kind of cycle IMO and HCG you will need to see how your nuts are effected, but on a small cycle of like 400-500 mg/test a week i wouldn't think you would need it.

By the way...is this too much clomid to use...cuz I was looking through some websites that said I only need 100mg/day clomid for the first week and 50mg/day clomid for the 2nd week??? So which is better?

[BIGDUDE]

bump the dbol up to 30mgs per day, and bump the test up tp 400mgs per day. the clomid looks fine the way ozzy laid it out.

[Ozzymt]

Agree with BigDude. The dbol at 30 mg and 400 mg test would yield far greater resukts and for the little extra cost it will be more satisfying.

As for clomid, when it comes to recovery you are best to get yourself back to normal as quick as possible so the dosages i laid out should do this most efficently.

[CB]

I was wondering how do I take the clomid each da...do I ake the it al in the morning or do I break it up...and do I take it with food or without??? Same for the d-bol??? when and how should I take it???

[Ozzymt]

the clomid i take in the morning all in one dose. Do not chew and try to swallow as quick as possible as it tastes like ****. I find that it goes down best with a protein shake.

The dbol you need to split up. It has a 4 hours half life so ideally you want to take it every 4 hours. If you are running 30mg/day then you can split it into 3 doses or more.

Also, when taking dbol you need to get some liver protectants such as milk thistle or ALA.

[CB]

BTW...should I shoot the test all at once (500mg once a week) or should I split it up (250 mg twice a week). Also a question about needles...I think I am going to get a 23 guage or 25 gauge needle...but will this be able to handle 500mg of test enanthate or should I get something bigger??? Also do I need a new syringe and needle for each weekly shot...or can I just get one syringe and a bunch of needles? If so do I need to clean the syinge after each weekly shot? If so with what? I basically need to know how many syringes and needles to get with my gear as well???

[CB]

Also...how would I take the ALA or Milk thistle(amount and frequency)??? When do I start taking it an when do and when do I stop as well???

[Ozzymt]

Hi bro, split your jabs up as evenly as possible, say one on monday, one on thursday. That should give nice even blood concentrations.

As for the pins and barrells. Always, always use a new barrell for a jab. Use a 21 guage needle to draw the oil from the amp and then either a 23 or a 25 guage needle to inject. I would use a 25 guage needle for bi's tri's and possibly delts and use a 23 guage for quads or glutes. Always change the needle after drawing from the amp though as if you scrape the tip or anything you will dull the needle and that results in a painful jab.

If you are doing 2 jabs a week for 10 weeks then you need 20 syringes and then the according number of pins, but i would always get spares and make sure you get your alcohol swabs too.

I normally only use milk thistle. Run at 1000mg/day whilst on the orals and for 2 weeks after to make sure.

[CB]

So do I save and reuse that 21 guauge pinthat I use to withdraw or do I need a new one every time as well??

[Ozzymt]

use a new one bro, don't want to use unsterile needles as they cost pittence anyway

[cgtnaeb]

hey bro, if you are looking for pins, check out your local needle exchange. they are free for junkies, might as well be free for gearheads. LOL

[grindman]

i am also a beginner and am going to run this same cycle, one question, how frequently do i need to inject the test once a week all 400 mgs or twice a week split up, also should i take nova immedietly or wait if needed

[cgtnaeb]

hey bro, you should inject 2 times per week, that way you will ensure better blood level concentrations.

also you may consider a frontload of like 800mgs, you will get to your max blood levels faster that way.