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scoober
02-15-2003, 10:27 PM
Im experimenting on trying this (my first week)
Im 32 very sedentary day job and weigh 156pounds at 5`6"

So im trying to lose love handles and stomach fat. I am keeping to 6 days exercise - mixed 30 min resistance 15min aerobic run jog 15 min speed walk.

I am trying this Keto diet for a 6 day stint

Brekky - 2 eggs

snack 1 - 100g cottage cheese

lunch - tuna 85g with lettuce grated cheddar and 1000 island dressing

snack 2 - 100g cottage cheese

WORKOUT 1 hour

dinner - 80g chicken breast stir fried with 1/2 cup vegetables

all with 3- 4 litres water and about 2-3 cups of coffee


I will be Carb up on Thursday night and Friday day - I havent worked out how much and what I should eat??? any ideas??

who else has tries CKD?? any other meal plans???

I will tell you how I get on

AstronautJones
02-16-2003, 02:41 AM
Just wondering: you do have a post-workout shake don't you? What does that consist of?

scoober
02-16-2003, 03:10 AM
No I havent got any access to protein shakes or whey or anything like that, so I have to make do with whats in the supermarkets.
Maybe someone who has access to the PX can help.

Im aiming to cut - and wont be too bothered about muscle loss

bradley
02-16-2003, 04:51 AM
I would give the diet a longer trial run than 6 days. I would say it is hard to judge the success/failure of a diet in that amount of time.

Also when performing a CKD most people perform workouts on the two consecutive days after a carb up and a depletion workout the day before carbing up. You could then do some cardio training on the other days if you like. Have you read the article in the diet and nutrition section? Might be of some help to you.

Shao-LiN
02-16-2003, 08:34 AM
How many calories is that?

Bryan
02-16-2003, 10:15 AM
I'm doing and loving CKD, it takes a while to get into a the 'flow' of keto but after a while its routine. Whats your macro breakdown on the Cottage Cheese? My cottage cheese has too many carbs in it for me to eat =<

Wizard
02-16-2003, 12:28 PM
CKD is great but you have to manipulate it somehow so that you can take the most of it. When I m doing a CKD, I keep 6 days with low/no carbs and I have only one day with high carbs and low fat. As far as carb selection for the carb up day is concerned, I d say that anything that is high in startch and low in sugar, fructose and fat is a good choice. Don't over-consume protein on that day as it would be counter productive since you consume more calories than your bmr suggests anyways.

I usually carb up on Saturdays ,so, I have an exhausting full body workout on Saturday morning just before beginning the carb up.
Then, I have an upper body workout on Monday morning and one leg workout on Wed. morning so that I can let some time to my muscles for resting. Two consecutive days of working out can sometimes be too much but it depends on how your body reacts. Just try and see.

scoober
02-17-2003, 09:04 AM
Thanks Bradley et al - I read the article not sure if I understood all of it!! Yes I meant to say i`m doing 6 days low/no carb and a 24 hour carb up. I will do this for four weeks??? and see how it goes.
I have now added 3 cups of green tea and a multi vit to every day. I will now exercise 2 days mix weight/power walk 1 day run 1 day weights 2 days mix weight/power walk.

Bryan hope there isnt too many carbs in my Jocca - per 100g protein 10g carbs 3g fat 8g

Wizard thanks i`m going for the fruit as a carb up source and some bran cereal and whole meal bread.

Bryan & Wizard how long have you been doing CKD? are you achieving a lot of fat loss?

I know what you mean about the body reacting - everything was very very sore last nite LOL

Wizard
02-17-2003, 09:14 AM
scoober, it's better to avoid eating fruits because they re high in fructose.

The first time I did a CKD was 2 years ago and it's the best diet I ve ever done in terms of losing fat and only. For gaining mass, I d not suggest it 2 neone.

scoober
02-17-2003, 09:30 AM
OOOps Yeah i misread your post - so probably just cereal and bread as carb sources - and the biggest baked potato i can find!!

I have a sweet potato and brown rice can i eat these during low carb days?

how do I tune the diet and when do you think I should see results i.e. how many weeks and do you think going for 4 weeks is too long or short?

Wizard
02-17-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by scoober


I have a sweet potato and brown rice can i eat these during low carb days?

how do I tune the diet and when do you think I should see results i.e. how many weeks and do you think going for 4 weeks is too long or short?

No you are not allowed (by the law) eating potatoes and brown rice during the low carb days. They are excellent carb sources but they re still very high in carbs.. they re just digested slowly.

Give it at least a good 2 weeks before judging it.

scoober
02-21-2003, 01:33 AM
phew thats week 1 done - yesterday i felt wasted on the treadmill - i could barely lift my legs.

but i feel really good!! and the scale indicates i have lost 2 kg!!

its carb up day today- i had bran flakes for breakfast,

a sweet potato pan fried in oil - is this a good or bad idea? tasted delicious, 4 slices multi-cereal bread

for dinner im not sure - chicken breast and a little pasta.

and then start carb free again tomorrow

bradley
02-21-2003, 02:41 AM
I would keep the fat minimal during a carb up. Approximately 15% of daily calories.

Wizard
02-21-2003, 09:46 AM
Scoober don't overdo cardio. Just 15-20 min. and keep it in low intensity.

scoober
02-28-2003, 03:29 AM
yes Wizard i have changed the cardio to interval training walk/jog which feels right.

this is week 2 completed and i am really enjoying this diet i have seen 1/2 inch off my waste and know that it is working.

BUT how long is it safe to do this diet - i have a multi-vit every day but cant help feeling that eating 12 fried eggs a week and no fruit can be healthy - because it is not a balenced diet.

I am definetly going for another 2 weeks so - 4 weeks in total - but i wont be "CUT" by then!! so any ideas i.e. keep going or take a week off??

thanks in advance

bradley
02-28-2003, 05:33 AM
BUT how long is it safe to do this diet - i have a multi-vit every day but cant help feeling that eating 12 fried eggs a week and no fruit can be healthy - because it is not a balenced diet.

There are many opinions on this matter, but IMO I think it would be fine to stay on the ketogenic diet for the duration of your cut. You can add in small amounts of fibrous veggies or a salad to help get a few more nutrients and fiber.

restless
02-28-2003, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by scoober
yes Wizard i have changed the cardio to interval training walk/jog which feels right.

this is week 2 completed and i am really enjoying this diet i have seen 1/2 inch off my waste and know that it is working.

BUT how long is it safe to do this diet - i have a multi-vit every day but cant help feeling that eating 12 fried eggs a week and no fruit can be healthy - because it is not a balenced diet.



thanks in advance

Don't worry about safety, the Innuit have been on it for thousands of years and they had no problems. Fruit won't give you nothing green vegetables like broculy and spinach can't provide. You can have these and still be in ketosis (although the importance of remaining there for fatloss is highly questionable).

Fried foods are no good though, I would stay away from them altogether.

scoober
03-03-2003, 08:51 AM
has anyone got any ideas for other food to eat during the Keto phase - it is getting very boring!!

I thought it was ok to fry the food as it provided a fat source?

AJ_11
03-03-2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by scoober
has anyone got any ideas for other food to eat during the Keto phase - it is getting very boring!!

I thought it was ok to fry the food as it provided a fat source?

Fried food provides a "bad" fat source. Just eat flax seeds, salmon, chicken, olive oil, and butter. Choose healthy fats. Take the time to learn what you putting into your body you'll end up having more sucsess.

raniali
03-03-2003, 09:23 AM
i agree that healthy fats should be a major component of the fats you are eating ... but on keto, i was also eating tuna/mayo, sausage, hot dogs, cheese, butter etc and still made considerable progress. Your body just wants fat - and in keto, i think the types of fat is a little less important.

scoober
03-07-2003, 12:48 AM
What happens if I take a supplement like ripfuel or something similar that is meant to increase metabolism?

Will it increase the effects of this diet??

bradley
03-07-2003, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by scoober
What happens if I take a supplement like ripfuel or something similar that is meant to increase metabolism?

Will it increase the effects of this diet??

The thermogenic effect of the EC/ECA stack will increase calorie expenditure, so yeah it might help somewhat.

scoober
03-13-2003, 07:02 AM
i have just completed week 4 and i am more than happy with this diet.

I took measurements before i started the diet:-

week 1 week 4
chest 38.5" 37"
stomach 34.5" 32"
hips 34.5" 33.5"
thighs 21" 20"
biceps 11" 11"

weight went from 71kg 156pounds down to 64-65kg

Im goin for another 4 weeks!!!! and i`ve started on a thermogenic supplement.

im taking photos but i want to show a dramatic change

Thanks for all the excellent advice

TiGeR AK
03-13-2003, 03:50 PM
for ckd vets..

have you noticed that your lifts from before CKD and after CKD have:

1. Stayed constant
2. improved
3. decreased

also could u state how long you were on the ckd.

thanks... i really wana cut.. but i'm so afraid of losing my strength/mass gains... so im researching it a bit.

raniali
03-13-2003, 03:58 PM
i think losing *some* muscle mass on ANY diet is inevitable. i dieted HARD on ckd for about 4 months and i wasn't lifting any personal bests. but my strength came back after coming off and eating like a machine afterwards. in fact, i have made some great size gains the past 6 months.

TiGeR AK
03-13-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by raniali
i think losing *some* muscle mass on ANY diet is inevitable. i dieted HARD on ckd for about 4 months and i wasn't lifting any personal bests. but my strength came back after coming off and eating like a machine afterwards. in fact, i have made some great size gains the past 6 months.

so at the end of the 4 months... how much were u lifting in comparison with pre-CKD days? about the same.. less.. more?

raniali
03-13-2003, 06:11 PM
i dont know offhand -- i was more focused on dieting than lifting and don't recall much besides the fact i was killing myself everyday

if i remember to pull out my journals - i'll let you know

scoober
03-14-2003, 12:55 AM
Im not going for massive muscle development - I have a small frame but have nice pecs and shoulders. I have done this purely to get cut and toned.

For lifting I suffer!! I really suffer!! On day 1 I feel fine but by day 5 it is a real struggle. I tend to lift the bench press the same amount but need to do smaller sets with longer rests. I have not increased my strength I would say it is constant. Also some of the cardio ends up as a slow walk on day 5!!

Im only doing upper body weight training 3 days a week.

Last night I felt depleted. This morning at 8(carb up day)felt really awful-- fatigued. So got up took some celltech and a big bowl of alpen sugar free. Then went back to bed!! then got up at 10am and had beans on toast - im feeling better now :)

TiGeR AK
03-14-2003, 03:28 AM
i'm a really stubborn guy when it comes to lifting poundages... it kills me when i can't lift as much as previous workouts... so it's really hard to get into cutting.

but i guess this is the best way to maintain most of my strength, and it's something i just have to sacrifice to get the killer cuts in my delts and abs.

shibbyshaw
03-14-2003, 06:50 AM
wats ckr???

raniali
03-14-2003, 10:09 AM
scoober - why are you lifting on day 5 on a ckd to begin with????
dude - you are only going to damage yourself and injuries sustained on any keto diet take at least twice as long to heal. there is a prescribed training plan for a ckd that i think you need to follow. use common sense - if you can barely walk, don't lift!!!

http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/cyclic2.htm

bradley
03-14-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by shibbyshaw
wats ckr???

CKD= Cyclical Detogenic Diet, if that is what you meant to ask

raniali
03-14-2003, 05:09 PM
that would be CDD, brad

bradley
03-15-2003, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by raniali
that would be CDD, brad

lol, should be Cyclical Ketogenic Diet

Sometimes you have to keep me straight Raniali;)

Shankerr
03-15-2003, 10:22 AM
This might sound like a stupid question, but are you a girl, or a guy? And yes, i am going somewhere with this..

shibbyshaw
03-15-2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by bradley


lol, should be Cyclical Ketogenic Diet

Sometimes you have to keep me straight Raniali;)
and wut is that?:help:

bradley
03-16-2003, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by shibbyshaw

and wut is that?:help:

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=34

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=45

Silverback
03-16-2003, 07:48 AM
scoober youve got me a bit miffed, you sound as though you are pretty cut to begin with and upper body training 3 times a week, on CKD will result in major catabolism!, your also not training your legs m8 why is this?

IMO CKD is alright for a change but a regular lower calorie and fat diet suits me much better, the high fat (75%) left me feeling ill alot of the time, and my head was always feeling woozy from the carb depletion.

I think that just reducing your cals to maintenance. Then keeping your routine intense + moderate heart rate cardio is the best option for holding your muscle tissue and losing body fat

B-R

scoober
03-18-2003, 09:18 AM
Hi Big - Ron!!
No dont be miffed I was fat I am less fat now basically. I have love handles and bit of fat on stomach - so no I aint cut.

My training has not involved massive lifts - I followed the program from Simon Watersons book - The Commando Workout. So I train lower body - legs - 2 times a week. I also couldnt eat lots of fat so I havent followed the CKD in totality. But I get that metal taste in my mouth by the 3rd day.

Anyways the program has to stop - cos Im evacuating Kuwait tonight so back to the land of Beer (England)- OH NO!!!

Silverback
03-18-2003, 09:35 AM
Land of beer? it is only that if you make it.

Cool your being evacuated! do you get your flights for free? if not, why not?

Commando workout, what is that? sounds like something you do without underwear:D Get yourself in a UK gym and do WBB1 or WBB2

shibbyshaw
03-19-2003, 05:28 AM
wow very good article
but im still a little confused..
can any1 say in simpler ways the best way to go at this diet

bradley
03-19-2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by shibbyshaw
wow very good article
but im still a little confused..
can any1 say in simpler ways the best way to go at this diet

What are your current goals? How long have you been training? A CKD might not be the best approach for you.

In a nutshell the CKD is 5 days of low carb dieting (<20g of carbs) with a 1 or 2 day carb load on the weekend.

bradley
03-19-2003, 05:51 AM
Here are some more articles:

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/mcdonald/training-on-ketogenic-diet.htm

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/mcdonald/carb-up-and-ketogenic-diet.htm

This last one is just kind of a brief overview of a few of the different types of diets that people follow:

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/popular-diets.htm

Ironman8
03-19-2003, 07:29 AM
Wow, you worked out 5 times a week on CKD :eek:

shibbyshaw
03-20-2003, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by bradley


What are your current goals? How long have you been training? A CKD might not be the best approach for you.

In a nutshell the CKD is 5 days of low carb dieting (<20g of carbs) with a 1 or 2 day carb load on the weekend.

im tryin to lose weight
long term goal is about 45 lbs
short term is 15 lbs

ive been training for couple months on and off, but for the past 3 weeks ive been preety active
liftin or joggin almost every day one of the other

also does "high GI" in (high GI liquid based)
theres also the low GI in solid based.. seen that thruout article but no idea wat it stands for or means

also when i load on carbs on those 1-2 days.. ummm can i eat white rice?

and does it matter if its simple or complex carbs? like should i completly stay away from complex?

and since even vegetables have carbs... how do i kno how much carbs is in lets say a cup of rice or other vegetables,..??:help:

Ironman8
03-20-2003, 07:33 AM
GI means Glycemic Index. Complex carbs have minimal effect on blood sugar, so it's high GI. Sugars spike your insulin levels(sugar crash), so it's a low GI.

If your fairly active or excercising alot, by all means, do not rid of carbs in your diet. You should eat more complex carbs(breads, rice, etc...). And try to eat to much simple carbs. Don't ask me why, but I heard they make you gain weight. Maybe someone on this board can tell you.

And if you want the nutritional facts on veggies and rice, check out the USDA nutritional page. Hope I helped!

bradley
03-20-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Ironman8
GI means Glycemic Index. Complex carbs have minimal effect on blood sugar, so it's high GI. Sugars spike your insulin levels(sugar crash), so it's a low GI.



You have your terms backwards. Higher GI carbs will cause a more rapid increase in insulin and a lower GI index carbs will cause a more subtle insulin increase.

The glycemic index is not exactly in line with complex and simple carbs. What I mean is for instance lactose is a sugar but it has a low GI.

bradley
03-20-2003, 02:01 PM
also does "high GI" in (high GI liquid based)
theres also the low GI in solid based.. seen that thruout article but no idea wat it stands for or means

A carb can be high GI and be either a liquid or a solid. For example white rice is considered a high GI index food but so is Kool-Aid.


also when i load on carbs on those 1-2 days.. ummm can i eat white rice?

Yes, white rice would be fine.


and does it matter if its simple or complex carbs? like should i completly stay away from complex?

I would recommend starting out with simple carbs and then switch to complex carbs toward the end of the carb load.


and since even vegetables have carbs... how do i kno how much carbs is in lets say a cup of rice or other vegetables,..??

Vegetables really would not be the ideal source of carbs for a carb load. You can go to the links below to find out nutrition information about different foods.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR15/sr15.html
www.fitday.com

bradley
03-20-2003, 02:05 PM
Here is another thread about the carb load.

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22807&highlight=glycogen+supercompensation