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fatsoPanda
02-24-2003, 10:01 PM
I'm considering using a Fiber supplemental, any recommendations on particulars?

Paul Stagg
02-25-2003, 07:41 AM
Anything with psyillium (sp) husk

Metamucil is a common brand, although there are cheaper (I think you can get it in bulk at health food stores.)

GuitarPlayer
02-25-2003, 09:43 AM
eat an apple with its skin
eat kashi go lean
eat oat bran

MrWebb78
02-25-2003, 09:47 AM
dont waste money on a fiber supplement

if youre eating a healthy BBing diet you should be getting plenty anyways.

HANSEL
02-25-2003, 09:57 AM
I agree with MrWebb, You should be eating broccoli, Cauliflower, brussels etc. All have enough fiber to keep things moving. If you must buy a supp, get pure Psyllium Husk, Usually $5 a pound.

raniali
02-25-2003, 10:37 AM
i dont see the problem with buying fiber. if you buy the popular brands at the store (like metamucil) they usually are popular because they add sugar. i buy bulk fiber from www.beyond-a-century.com for pretty darn cheap.
even if you are eating a balanced diet, getting a good 30+ g of fiber daily is difficult.

bradley
02-25-2003, 11:14 AM
I agree in that there is nothing wrong with adding a fiber supp., but sometimes I will add some Fiber One cereal in with my oats to get some extra fiber.

Frozenmoses
02-25-2003, 11:35 AM
Fiber supplementation is a great way to help control appetite on a cut. If I start getting hungry between meals, I can just take half a dose of FiberCon and it supresses my appetite until it's time for my next meal.

aka23
02-25-2003, 02:21 PM
I would suggest obtaining your fiber naturally through foods like beans/legumes, vegetables, fruits, and whole grains. In addition to the fiber, these foods contain many valuable nutrients. While fiber supplements may bind to minerals and/or decrease absorbtion. (Don't take multivitamin at time of fiber supplement.). Fiber supplements are often more expensive than fiber obtained through naturally foods; they usually offer fewer types of fiber than a balanced diet; and sometimes they present a medical risk. Some fiber supplements are designed for constipation type problems and are intended for limited use. The home page at metamucil.com states "Metamucil is a bulk fiber laxative for treating occasional constipation and restoring regularity."

DC Hardgainer
02-26-2003, 12:05 AM
humm, i hear too much fiber can decrease test

bradley
02-26-2003, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by DC Hardgainer
humm, i hear too much fiber can decrease test

Not to my knowledge...where did you hear that?

DC Hardgainer
02-26-2003, 07:46 AM
read the discussion on testosterone dieting, its on this same foum. there is a few post adressing how to increase test you should keep fiber low

YatesNightBlade
02-26-2003, 09:15 AM
Undigestable carb. Thats all.

body
02-26-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by DC Hardgainer
read the discussion on testosterone dieting, its on this same foum. there is a few post adressing how to increase test you should keep fiber low

sure that was not stools?

bradley
02-26-2003, 02:12 PM
However, notice that from the Table 3, most studies compared vegetarian-type diets to western-type diets. This presents several problems when trying to explain the hormonal responses from the dietary manipulations. These included fiber content and the presence of various phytonutrients like flavonoids, isothiocyanates, etc. The main point is that there are many factors that can determine the effects of dietary fat on T levels. Most studies did not even report the amounts of fatty acids in the subjects’ diets, let alone the content of phytonutrients, so these factors were most likely not controlled for.

Basically from what I gathered from the quick search I did was that a higher fiber intake was associated with a lower fat intake, but I saw no direct evidence that diet high in fiber would cause your testosterone to decrease. The above quote was taken from the article below.

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/incledon/diet02.htm

body
02-26-2003, 02:23 PM
most foods that are high in fibre are low in fat and also bulky so help fill you up more easily so you eat less.

though pea nuts and other nuts may not be in on this.

MrWebb78
02-26-2003, 02:36 PM
a bulking diet is not usually low in fat, and is important to get enough fiber while bulking to absorb and digest all that food. its really not hard getting 30 grams a day. unless you bulk on fast food.

when ya do the math, 30 grms divided by six meals a day is only 5 grams per meal. thats 2 small pieces of fruit. or 2 slices of wheat bread. or 1 serving of oatmeal. countless ways to get that 5 grams.

body
02-26-2003, 02:40 PM
thats true mr webb.

but some of the keto people may have trouble getting that level of fibre.

though i do not do keto. some days i get up to 50-60 grams but normally i say my average is 30 grams.

aka23
02-26-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by bradley


Basically from what I gathered from the quick search I did was that a higher fiber intake was associated with a lower fat intake, but I saw no direct evidence that diet high in fiber would cause your testosterone to decrease. The above quote was taken from the article below.

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/incledon/diet02.htm

The same article also says

"So, what is the best type of diet to follow if your only concern is to increase T levels and make more of it available to the body for the purpose of improving lean body mass and/or performance? It would seem that CHO intake must exceed PRO intake by at least 40% to keep the bioactive fraction of T high. Fat intake should be at least 30%, saturated fat needs to be higher than PUFA, and fiber intake needs to be low."

I agree that the article did not list studies in which only the fiber intake was adjusted without other modifications, so it is not clear what the effect of a fiber supplement would be in the absense of other dietary modifications.

Some researchers belive that certain fiber-like compounds may bind to testosterone. This is often thought of as a positive thing because it reduces risks of certain cancers. The page at www.emedicine.com/med/topic3100.htm mentions a study with vegetarians and 7th Day Adventists suggesting fiber intake is inversly realted to testosterone levels when fat levels remain constant. However, they did not mention polyunsaturated to saturated fat ratio, and other possible dietary changes.

bradley
02-26-2003, 04:17 PM
In a 1996 study, forty-three men were exposed to a high-fat, low-fiber diet for 10 weeks and a low-fat, high-fiber diet for 10 weeks in a cross over design (6). Total T and fT did not change significantly. SHBG-bound T was higher on the high-fat diet, which does not agree with another study (16). The researchers claimed this might have been due to within-person variations of plasma testosterone levels.

Another important finding was that urinary excretion of T was much greater on the high-fat, low-fiber diet (6). Other studies have shown that on higher fat diets, urinary excretion of T is increased (10, 11) while vegetarian type diets may decrease the urinary excretion of T (9, 10, 11). This is an important point to consider in evaluating the level of T bioactivity in the body. If blood levels of T elevate and the excretion rate of T also elevates there may not be a net bioactive effect of T. However, if blood levels of T remain the same and T excretion decreases, that may signal a net bioactive effect of T in the body. While it is difficult to say if a higher fat or lower fat diet would be better for increasing the bioactivity of T, it does appear that higher fat and lower fiber-type diets are associated with greater excretion of T. An increase in the urinary excretion of T combined with an elevation of T levels in the blood may indicate that the net T production is greater. The implication is that cells may have an increased opportunity to be exposed to T. Alternatively, perhaps it is the result of some type of self-regulating mechanism that the body maintains to keep endogenous levels in check.

Although fiber may have some impact on testosterone, it seems as though this impact is negligible. I think it is safe to say that the benefits of fiber far outweigh any negative effects that it may have on testosterone levels.

I do know that you are not advocating a low fat diet. At least that is what I have gathered from your previous posts.

Complete article
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/incledon/diet02.htm

DC Hardgainer
02-28-2003, 01:03 AM
yeah, there is no reason to lower fiber intake. just keep monounsaturated fat intake decent.

AJ_11
02-28-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by DC Hardgainer
yeah, there is no reason to lower fiber intake. just keep monounsaturated fat intake decent.

I agree. I also think that you need to have a higher mono/sat fat over poly. But that that mean Omega 3's as well, becasue there are quite a few positives in having a higher omega 3 ratios.

raniali
02-28-2003, 09:51 AM
actually (and i know this really isn't on the topic of fiber, but fits into AJ's comments) i was reading last night a small blurb in the Tufts University Health&Nutrition letter that stated that :

Note that taking fish oil supplements in amounts greater that 3 grams a day could lead to unwanted bleeding and rise in "bad" LDL-cholesterol. People should consume doses that high only if monitored by a physician. (these are recommendations by the American Heart Association and they note that most fish oil supplements in the US provide only 300 mg of Omega-3's per capsule.)

anyways - this perked my interest .... any thoughts?

carolinagirl
02-28-2003, 11:12 AM
Hmmm...I've been taking 12 caps a day (1 g/cap of O3's, 180 mg EPA/120 mg DHA per cap) and I have noticed a couple of unexplained bruises. Wonder if they're related?

Paul Stagg
02-28-2003, 11:28 AM
those recommendations come from the same people who think you shoudl eat 60g of protein a day.

Any discussion of what causes the bleeding?

Any discussion of any other dietary factors? For example, for the typical US fatass, adding more fat to the diet *might* be a bad thing, regardless of the type of fat.

aka23
02-28-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
Any discussion of what causes the bleeding?

Some of the benefits of fish oil are related to reduced blood clotting. This same reduced blood-clotting ability encourages bleeding. It is my understanding that excessive bleeding is rarely a problem unless you are taking blood thinners, have a history of bleeding problems, or are pregnant (risk is for fetus).

restless
02-28-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by raniali
actually (and i know this really isn't on the topic of fiber, but fits into AJ's comments) i was reading last night a small blurb in the Tufts University Health&Nutrition letter that stated that :

Note that taking fish oil supplements in amounts greater that 3 grams a day could lead to unwanted bleeding and rise in "bad" LDL-cholesterol. People should consume doses that high only if monitored by a physician. (these are recommendations by the American Heart Association and they note that most fish oil supplements in the US provide only 300 mg of Omega-3's per capsule.)

anyways - this perked my interest .... any thoughts?

This was posted by Bryan Haycock a while ago in the HST board:

"1. Bleeding time,

“In the GRAS affirmation review for menhaden oil, FDA reviewed the available evidence that noted changes in bleeding times associated with the use of EPA and DHA and concluded that there is no significant risk for increased bleeding time beyond the normal range, provided consumption of fish oils is limited to 3 grams or less per person per day of EPA and DHA (62 Fed. Reg. at 30,753). Therefore, provided that daily intakes of EPA and DHA omega-3 fatty acids from conventional foods and dietary supplements do not exceed 3 g/p/d, FDA believes that the use of EPA and DHA omega-3 fatty acids as a dietary supplement will not pose a health risk to the general population.” (Christine J. Lewis, Ph.D. Director Office of Nutritional Products, Labeling, and Dietary Supplements Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition)

restless
02-28-2003, 12:16 PM
So it's 3 grams per day of EPA/DHA and not of fish oils, although the text is somewhat prone to be interpreted this way. The thing is, how come the Innuit survived on up to 18 gr of omega 3 per day, surely any cut would mean they would bleed to death, wouldn't it?

carolinagirl
02-28-2003, 12:41 PM
Here's a link to a thread on the AL boards that addresses the bleeding issue (in passing) and the dosage for fish oils.

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantforum/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=2438&st=0

hmmm, that doesn't look link-ish. I copied and pasted it out of the browser. WTF?

Anyway, if anybody's interested enough, it's under General Questions and the thread is called 'good source for fish oils' or some such thing - I don't have time to fix it now b/c I have to go to work. I'll try and edit it later.

aka23
02-28-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by restless
The thing is, how come the Innuit survived on up to 18 gr of omega 3 per day, surely any cut would mean they would bleed to death, wouldn't it?

The Innuit die more frequently from cerebrovascular haemorrhages (bleeding to death via strokes) as compared to the nearby Danish people. Some researchers think this difference is related to their higher intake of Omega 3.