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Bam Bam
02-26-2003, 06:32 PM
hate to ask this but ive skimmed through lots of threads and didnt find the answer


on the carb up when should you cut the protein?? can i have some an hr before carb up? and when is the next time i can have protein?? if i carb up then go to bed like the diet states can i wake up a few hrs later and down some protein or not

bradley
02-27-2003, 02:27 AM
I would just eat a regular low carb NHE meal approximately 2 hours before the carb up and then try to keep protein minimal throughout the rest of the day because of the carb load. If you do happen to wake up in the middle of the night I wouldn't think it would hurt to have some protein. The main reason that Faigin recommends not to have protein with the carb load is that you will not be able to eat as many carbs. He also mentions food combining which he kind of dismisses as immaterial.

Bam Bam
02-27-2003, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by bradley
I would just eat a regular low carb NHE meal approximately 2 hours before the carb up and then try to keep protein minimal throughout the rest of the day because of the carb load. If you do happen to wake up in the middle of the night I wouldn't think it would hurt to have some protein. The main reason that Faigin recommends not to have protein with the carb load is that you will not be able to eat as many carbs. He also mentions food combining which he kind of dismisses as immaterial.

i thought the carb load was to be at night right before bed??

CBates
02-27-2003, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Bam Bam


i thought the carb load was to be at night right before bed??

Not right before bed, but the last meal or two of the day, he's just saying if you do get hungry and need to eat something within the 2 hours before bed, not to overdo it, just eat something pretty small.

AJ_11
02-27-2003, 01:24 PM
I would say to fet the book, a good read. Especially if you are doing to do this diet.

bradley
02-27-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by CBates


Not right before bed, but the last meal or two of the day, he's just saying if you do get hungry and need to eat something within the 2 hours before bed, not to overdo it, just eat something pretty small.

The last meal of the day would be right before bed. Faigin explains the reasoning behind the carb up being the last meal of the day, which is you can go to sleep and avoid the hunger that can sometimes accompany a carb up. This hunger is caused by the great amount of insulin released during the carb up.

AJ_11
02-27-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by bradley


The last meal of the day would be right before bed. Faigin explains the reasoning behind the carb up being the last meal of the day, which is you can go to sleep and avoid the hunger that can sometimes accompany a carb up. This hunger is caused by the great amount of insulin released during the carb up.

But he also say to wait about an hour and a half after eating your carb up. But yes, it should be your last meal of the day.

CBates
02-27-2003, 02:59 PM
Correct, he said to wait an hour and a half before going to bed after eating your last meal (which is the carb up). When I said 'not right before bed', I was meaning, don't eat and go right to sleep a few minutes later. Sorry for not making that clearer.

bradley
02-27-2003, 04:11 PM
Yeah, I agree. I see where he talks about how carbs will blunt growth hormone release if you go to bed immediately after eating them.

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-27-2003, 04:30 PM
Yeah, but most hGH is released during the last 4 or so hours of sleep anyway, so if you happen to have a late carb load, don't feel compelled to stay up another hour just to take advantage.

Bam Bam
02-28-2003, 10:12 AM
So not eating any protein for this amount of time wont have a negative effect on my nitrogen levels??

i guess ill do a carb load last meal but my last meal is usually right before bed if i happen to go out ill go eat all i can eat pancakes at I hop and then go to house

Avatar
02-28-2003, 11:12 AM
I wouldn't stress waiting an hour before going to bed if you can't sometimes. No biggie.

Also, IMO, its not a bad thing to get a little protein down during that carb meal. I used to knock back a 20g protein whey shake.

bradley
02-28-2003, 02:07 PM
When perofrming the carb up I would try and get most of your carbs from starchy sources and limit the amount of carbs from sugar. Also fat should be kept at a minimum during the carb load. Not for sure what the macro breakdown is for IHOP pancakes but it is something to keep in mind. At least limit the syrup and not butter when eating the pancakes if you decide to use that for your carb up meal.

Maybe a pasta bar would be more suitable for a carb up;)

AJ_11
02-28-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Avatar
I wouldn't stress waiting an hour before going to bed if you can't sometimes. No biggie.

Also, IMO, its not a bad thing to get a little protein down during that carb meal. I used to knock back a 20g protein whey shake.

Did you notice a difference when you did this and did you ever not do it to campare results. I am contemplating doing the same thing but I want to follow the diet to a T this time because I have screwed it up a couple of times. Oatmeal isn't the same without that vanilla flavor.

Bam Bam
02-28-2003, 05:16 PM
cool bradley ill listen to you

also can i have malto post workout on this diet??

AJ_11
02-28-2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Bam Bam
cool bradley ill listen to you

also can i have malto post workout on this diet??

No. You can then it really wouldn't be considered this diet. Maltodextrin is a suger which causes insulin spikes in higher amouts and that is one of the reasoning behind this diet is not to spike your insulin but to take in some fat post workout.

It's all in the book and he explains in quite a detail. There are certain things that you can change to your own benefit but then you can't really call it the NHE diet.

Really get the book, it is a good read. It only 30 bucks and there will be a less of a chance that you will screw up like I did trying ot do this diet the first time without it.

If you decide to take in malto post then you are just doing a TKD.

Bam Bam
02-28-2003, 06:52 PM
ok i wont take it but do i really need fat post workout or is protein sufficient

CBates
02-28-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Bam Bam
ok i wont take it but do i really need fat post workout or is protein sufficient

You'll be better off just doing a low carb diet with high protein and med./high fat. Just consume a post workout shake and try to make the rest of your carbs from fiber. Include a carb up day once or twice a week.

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-28-2003, 09:06 PM
Too much fat during carb loads has made me take two steps back repeatedly.

Don't make my mistakes.

bradley
03-01-2003, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by Bam Bam
ok i wont take it but do i really need fat post workout or is protein sufficient

While I don't really see a problem in only taking protein only postworkout, but I would follow Faigin advice and add some fat of some sort in there. You can use olive oil, flax oil, or whipping cream. The author reasons that the fat will help promote growth hormone release and help increase testosterone.

bradley
03-01-2003, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Too much fat during carb loads has made me take two steps back repeatedly.

Don't make my mistakes.

TCD, what do you think about someone on the NHE diet using a product like Muscle Milk? I would think it would have too many carbs but wanted to get your opinion.

Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 2 Scoops (75 g)
Servings Per Container: 15


Calories 348
Calories from Fat 162
Total Fat 18 g 28%
Saturated Fat 8 g 40%
Cholesterol 3 mg 1%
Sodium 200 mg 8%
Potassium 595 mg 17%
Total Carbohydrate 12 g 4%
Dietary Fiber <2 g 8%
Sugars 1 g
Protein 32 g 64%

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-01-2003, 08:34 AM
Providing it keeps your carb count in the right range and it's not gonna make you crave bad foods then fo' sho'.

If you get down to stubborn bf levels then it may be an idea to drop it for a lower carb-count protein.

HANSEL
03-01-2003, 08:43 AM
I dont understand why Muscle Milk is good?
I am under the impression with all the MCT's etc, that its for low carb diet.
But the ingredients list the Protein blend, the Fats, then the next two ingredients are Fructose and Maltodextrin! I am from the school that Fructose and is the enemy when cutting?

Avatar
03-01-2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by AJ_11


Did you notice a difference when you did this and did you ever not do it to campare results. I am contemplating doing the same thing but I want to follow the diet to a T this time because I have screwed it up a couple of times. Oatmeal isn't the same without that vanilla flavor.

Ya I've tried both ways on two separate cutting phases. If you have a big appetite (like me), then you can probably handle some protein with the carbs you take in without any probs.

I didn't notice any real difference in results from either way. I just figure better safe than sorry.

AJ_11
03-01-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Avatar


Ya I've tried both ways on two separate cutting phases. If you have a big appetite (like me), then you can probably handle some protein with the carbs you take in without any probs.

I didn't notice any real difference in results from either way. I just figure better safe than sorry.

Thanks. I do and I can handle it. But I keep fat to a minimun and try to feep protein to 20 grams anyways

bradley
03-01-2003, 02:03 PM
But the ingredients list the Protein blend, the Fats, then the next two ingredients are Fructose and Maltodextrin! I am from the school that Fructose and is the enemy when cutting?

You have to take into consideration that the protein and fats make up the bulk of the calories and a little fructose is not going to hurt you. The total amount of sugar in the Muscle Milk is only 1g.

You just have to be careful not to take in too much fructose. A couple of pieces of fruit a day while on a cut is not going to hurt your progress.