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SWOLE
03-02-2003, 07:57 PM
I just recently heard that you shouldnt mix carbs with fats because your body will store the fat and just use the carbs for energy because they are more easily broken down.
so basically you meals should be (carbs,protein) or (fats, proteins) and there shouldnt be any mix of fats and carbs. but it is good to have carbs and fats in your diet mix.
does anyone know how true it is that you shouldnt mix carbs and fats??
thanks for reading

_-_v_-_
03-02-2003, 08:00 PM
That's bunk, IMO.

Don't worry about it.

MrWebb78
03-02-2003, 08:19 PM
of course carbs are more readily available for energy, so they will be used first. but that doesnt mean you have to go as extreme as youre saying with an "either or" diet. just dont eat too much fat and youll be fine.

aka23
03-02-2003, 08:45 PM
Mixing carbs and fats has little effect on fat storage. What is more important is the total amount of food you consume and how much energy you expend. Exess calories are stored as fat whether carbs & fats are mixed or separated.

The page at http://www.4cnrs-weight-loss.com/weight-loss-article1.html describes a study comparing dieting with a balanced diet to fad diets that recommend separating fats and carbs.

SWOLE
03-02-2003, 08:47 PM
well, i figured it was bunk, but a guy told me this who works for a supp company. I didnt mean to have no fats are no carbs all day, but not to mix the fats and carbs. I am going to eat whatever i want to eat. I was just wondering everyones thoughts

Saint Patrick
03-03-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by SWOLE
well, i figured it was bunk, but a guy told me this who works for a supp company.

All the more reason not to believe him.

restless
03-03-2003, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by SWOLE
I just recently heard that you shouldnt mix carbs with fats because your body will store the fat and just use the carbs for energy because they are more easily broken down.
so basically you meals should be (carbs,protein) or (fats, proteins) and there shouldnt be any mix of fats and carbs. but it is good to have carbs and fats in your diet mix.
does anyone know how true it is that you shouldnt mix carbs and fats??
thanks for reading

Although there is some truth to it in the sense that in the presence of carbs and fat, carbs will be used for energy first and fat has a better chance of getting stored than it would have if carbs weren't there, in the end it makes no measurable differece at all because what dictates weight gain or loss is the excess/defice of calories. Don't worry about it.

body
03-03-2003, 04:45 AM
if you over eating it will get sored as fat, however this will happen if you did not mix the nutrients as well.

plus the fat will increase digestion time, therefor lowering Gi of the food, which is better for staying lean as well.

Erbas
03-03-2003, 01:11 PM
I would imagine that if you consume enough carbs or high GI carbs with fat, then you will most likely just send the fat to storage...since, if I understand it right, eating the above will elevate insulin which prohibits the use of fat as energy. Eating carbs as not to promote a high insulin response with fat probably is just fine....JMO. I try to schedule the majority of my carb intake before and after exercise...weights or cardio.

body
03-03-2003, 03:56 PM
it does depend on wether in kcal overload erbas.

plus high GI foods like carrots are low in kcal and carbs.
to do the GI, you take 50 grams of available carbs.

that means you would eat like 600 grams of carrot. most people do not do this, this is one problem with GI.

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-03-2003, 04:16 PM
The calories make the difference.

Carbs over calorie-maintenance adds fat by prevent fat burning.

Fat over calorie-maintenance adds fat by getting stored as fat.

Silverback
03-03-2003, 04:37 PM
Cals are the daddy, but GI plays an imperative role in deciding imo.

When i was bulking i would experiment with different GI levels and when on higher gi my fat levels would increase, whereas as low gi would keep a balance (obviously high GI post workout :) )

This isnt gospel and although it worked for me, everyone is different. But to your original point separating yeilds no further benefits than regular dieting.

body
03-03-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Cals are the daddy, but GI plays an imperative role in deciding imo.

When i was bulking i would experiment with different GI levels and when on higher gi my fat levels would increase, whereas as low gi would keep a balance (obviously high GI post workout :) )



how did your overall kcal level differ when you did high GI and low GI.

plus how different was your body weight as well?
as my kcal level keeps going up as i get bigger.

plus when eating High GI carb sources. did you eat it withe other foods? if so what was the overall GI of the meal and insulin repsonse?

plus how many carbs did you eat per session? as Gi is related to overall carb intake(well the system is based on 50 grams). with some eg bread its far easier to eat 50 grams of available carbs than carrots.

also to eat the same level of food may be hard as well, as low GI crabs are normally more bulky and more fibrerous than high GI ones so would fill you up more easily therefore you eat less.

Silverback
03-03-2003, 05:05 PM
The cal level was basically the same, by low gi im on the lines of rye bread, noodles, basmatti rice etc...

Higher gi potato, WW Bread, Cereals, bananas, raisins etc...

The muscle was still going on at the same rate on both high and low , but with high my body fat levels seemed too rise more, i remember incorporating just rasins into my diet twice a day more, instead of milk saw my fornightly body fat levels rise by 2-3% more than usual.

The carbs i took were between 40 and 70 grams per sitting 6 times a day, post workout had between 90-110grams of high gi carbs no matter what variation i was using.

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-03-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Cals are the daddy, but GI plays an imperative role in deciding imo.

When i was bulking i would experiment with different GI levels and when on higher gi my fat levels would increase, whereas as low gi would keep a balance (obviously high GI post workout :) )

This isnt gospel and although it worked for me, everyone is different. But to your original point separating yeilds no further benefits than regular dieting.

Well this would be obvious, since you were "bulking".

Higher GI tends to raise insulin more/quicker, which in turn raises LPL, which is when fat accumulation begins.

However, it seems to be that LPL is actually a second player behind ASP for fat storing. At least, that is the way research seems to be pointing as of late. And you don't need insulin to promote ASP.

At the end of the day, in calorie deficit, nothing is "fattening", even high GI carbs, although they're certainly not ideal from a hunger/blood sugar control point of view, and especially not if you're trying to shed stubborn bf. When your calories are in surplus, then controlling blood sugar a bit more via complex carbs low on the GI, is a decent idea to keep the gains with minimal bf accumulation (providing you're controlling your calories correctly).

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-03-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
The cal level was basically the same, by low gi im on the lines of rye bread, noodles, basmatti rice etc...

Higher gi potato, WW Bread, Cereals, bananas, raisins etc...

The muscle was still going on at the same rate on both high and low , but with high my body fat levels seemed too rise more, i remember incorporating just rasins into my diet twice a day more, instead of milk saw my fornightly body fat levels rise by 2-3% more than usual.

The carbs i took were between 40 and 70 grams per sitting 6 times a day, post workout had between 90-110grams of high gi carbs no matter what variation i was using.

Wow! if your bf% rose by 2-3% in a mere two weeks then you must have been doing some power eating man!

Silverback
03-03-2003, 05:16 PM
I hear what your saying Ck and it is pretty obvious i know, but i justed wanted to display my experiences, and the dieting (weight loss) makes no difference whether it be high or low, but lower is preferable and usually satisfies hunger as you stated.

As for the body fat rises i did eat like a horse, basically because i was seeing really pleasing results, then for some reason body fat started piling on aswell, now im around 14-15% (glutes account for 12% :D)

body
03-03-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
The cal level was basically the same, by low gi im on the lines of rye bread, noodles, basmatti rice etc...

Higher gi potato, WW Bread, Cereals, bananas, raisins etc...

.

basmatti is higher GI than ww bread and cereals unless you mean frosties

Silverback
03-03-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by body


basmatti is higher GI than ww bread and cereals unless you mean frosties

Really? damn i always thought that basmatti rice was lower gi than most. That was a bit of a shock to the system!

body
03-03-2003, 05:39 PM
i am pretty sure its higher,

most rice are meduim to high GI. rice is higher than pasta and bread.

Basmatti is normally white as well? well i have not seen brown basmatti anyway being sold in the UK.

i do not see how basmatti rice is different to other rices. so i assume basmatti is high.

plus rice (white) is low in other vitamins and minerals and low in protien as well than wholemeal bread or whole wheat pasta.

SteveC
03-06-2003, 03:16 PM
What's up SWOLE, you made me register on this board just because of this thread you started! I was educated about eating protein and carbs OR protein and fats per meal by Beverley, in an open forum with 3 of their bodybuilders and Roger, the head guy himself. Now I know I am new on this board, and I don't want to seem disrespectful or take anything away from any of you guys, but I think I would take the advice of Beverley, who bases all of their info on scientific results, over what some of you guys have to say.

Now I'm not gonna say I know nearly as much behind the reasoning for this as Beverley, but if you sit and think about it, it makes sense, am I wish I had known this a long time ago. You will still be eating the same amount of carbs and fats as you were in the past, but it's the timing that changes.

_-_v_-_
03-06-2003, 03:18 PM
Post these "studies," please.

body
03-06-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by SteveC
What's up SWOLE, you made me register on this board just because of this thread you started! I was educated about eating protein and carbs OR protein and fats per meal by Beverley, in an open forum with 3 of their bodybuilders and Roger, the head guy himself. Now I know I am new on this board, and I don't want to seem disrespectful or take anything away from any of you guys, but I think I would take the advice of Beverley, who bases all of their info on scientific results, over what some of you guys have to say.

Now I'm not gonna say I know nearly as much behind the reasoning for this as Beverley, but if you sit and think about it, it makes sense, am I wish I had known this a long time ago. You will still be eating the same amount of carbs and fats as you were in the past, but it's the timing that changes.

be our guest to show us what is wrong in the thread. as at the moment you left us with nothing to go on to how to improve this.

smalls
03-06-2003, 07:16 PM
If you read this forum long enough, you will see that we base our info mostly on peer reviewed studies as well.
I believe aka actually posted a study already. So there ya go.

I usually kind of seperate carbs and fat just by habit, and my meals just work out that way. When bulking, I find it helps keep the bloat down for whatever reason. But even in my own experience there is no difference in fat gain or loss seperating these macronutrients.

Vido
03-06-2003, 07:44 PM
I've been doing this for some time now, and find it to be very beneficial. I am not going to say that this is the way it HAS to be done, or that it is BETTER than any other way of eating, but I personally like it, and that's good enough for me. I don't know whether my results were confounded by another factor that I changed in and around the same time (as I don't remember any other major modifications to my diet or training), but my most recent cutting diets have been more successful than previous ones, and I have managed to keep my bodyfat in check while bulking as well.

I will say this. Studies mean absolutely nothing to me. I think people need to take the responsibility to try these different alternatives out, and make the call on their own.

smalls
03-06-2003, 08:21 PM
Honestly Vido, I agree with you to a certain extent. A study will not solidify anything in my mind. He was just saying that he follows studies, yet has none that back up his claim.
I like eating this way too. But I dont think the benefits, bodyfat wise, are that big.

SteveC
03-06-2003, 08:51 PM
Ok, first off to _-_v_-_, I don't know where to find these studies, I don't work for Beverly. Perhaps you might want to call Beverly and talk to them, they might be able to further explain the theories behind this way of eating. My conclusion is that if you eat carbs and fat, the carbs are gonna eventually be burned for energy, and the fat won't have minimal use, so it will be absorbed and stored as fat.

Second, to body, I posted because I am the friend that SWOLE was talking about who told him about this idea that I learned from Beverly. I was saying the part about no disrespect and listening to Beverly over some of the guys on here because most everyone on here was saying it's ok to eat carbs and fat at the same time.

Thirdly, to smalls, if you read the study, it is basically only concerned with weight loss, ie eating less calories then you consume. Now if we take this study at face value, that means we can eat all of our calories from fat and still lose weight if the calories total less then our daily calorie expenditure, BUT I know that that is not what we bodybuilders (competitive or not) are after. We need to eat certain amounts of certain nutrients to achieve our goal of lean muscle with little fat. I follow a 50% protein, 25% fat, 25% carb diet myself. So really this study does not concern muscle gain and fat loss. By not eating carbs and fat at teh same time, the prupose is to retain / gain muscle while losing bodyfat. I tend not to listen to studies about diet and training directed at the "average person" because they are not applicable to bodybuidlers.

Fourthly, to Vido, glad to hear about your success. I too did not say everyone HAS to eat like this, I was just explaining to SWOLE my way of eating on our trip to the Arnold, then saw this post and wanted to defend the way of eating. I also believe that by eating this way one can bulk while keeping a relatively low bodyfat and not have to do it the old school way of gaining huge amounts of fat while bulking. But that's a whole different thing entirely.

Finally, I never meant for my comments to offend anyone, I'm just trying to offer some help. Instead of just trying to blast it down, it really does make sense, maybe you guy should try it for a month or so, if you like it and it works at lowering your body fat, great, if not, you won't gain any fat on it because your carb and fat intake will be the same, only the timing will change, so what do you have to lose? To SWOLE, where on poliquin's website did you find that calf routine, I really like the way your's are developed from the back and I want to read over what you do.

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-07-2003, 08:38 AM
You're not offending anyone, you're just regurgitating a very old topic that has been discussed (and disproved) at length.

It's one of John Beradi's "theories" for a few years back. Of course he had never looked up ASP at the time, so it really is just a theory. It sounds great but doesn't work quite the same in practise. Lyle McDonald actually totally dispelled the idea on MFW a couple of years back on MFW.

But if you fancy it, wanna try it or are doing it currently, then power to you.

And by the way, before anyone asks if i have tried it, i can safely say yes. And it made no difference whatsoever.

The only time i separate carbs from fat is during carb loads or refeeds. (or at least keep fat intake as low as possible).

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-07-2003, 10:56 AM
And are you sure it was Beverly Int., cause i'm quite sure the bi-weekly carb loads that go with tha diet involve including fat by the way of butter or cream.