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Haven
03-03-2003, 11:41 PM
I have been lifting for about 2 years and have made some major gains. I have put on muslce and weight consistantly. Just recently I started to get a little "pot" belly going. I have fixed up my diet to drop some cards, and eat healthier, and took up a cardio program. My questions is, can I still gain muscle, while I am trying to burn my little gut/fat? I really don't like the idea of loseing weight, since I still need more muslce mass, to be at my ideal weight.
Stats:
5'10"
168
32 Waist

Saint Patrick
03-04-2003, 12:51 AM
Welcome to your first Cutting phase. Now is the time when you should concentrate on fat loss, and just try your best to hold on to the muscle mass that you already have. Unless you're taking steroids, it's virtually impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. After you've lost enough fat, start eating again and gaining muscle. you won't reach your goals overnight. These things take time.

What is your body fat %? If you don't know, find out. I'd say if you're 16% or lower, keep eating. If not, start dieting.

bradley
03-04-2003, 02:50 AM
Sounds as though you are on the right track. Keep your diet clean and add in some cardio. This will probably do the trick but if not just decrease cals in small increments. You don't want to do both at once which could lead to LBM losses. Although keep in mind when trying to add LBM you are going to accumalate a little fat.

aka23
03-04-2003, 09:53 AM
It is difficult for well trained persons to gain muscle while losing fat, but it is certainly not impossible. I think this is practical goal, considering that it sounds like you are not at a low body fat.

I would suggest increasing cardio quite a bit. 3060 minutes on most days of the week would be a decent target. I suggest doing the cardio at a challenging intesity that you can comfortably manage for the entire time. For most persons, this is at 60%-85% max HR. If you are doing cardio on sequential days, it is be beneficial to switch ativities, as well as other factors, such as intensity or training type. This helps avoid overtraining, as well as train your body in different ways. You should build up to this level gradually and start out with less or a lower intensity.

It is important to continue lifting during this period. It would be beneficial to separate the cardio and lifting by 8-12 hours or do it on alternate days. Also be careful to avoid overworking the legs on days you do quads/hamstrings.

I suggest eating a balanced diet (do not cut carbs, protein, etc), and setting your calories at such a level that your weight is stable. Note that you probably could gain muscle or lose fat a faster rate, if you focused on one activity or the other and set calories differently.

Once you have reached your goals, I woulds suggest continuing cardio one or two days a week. This will help maintain your lower body fat and maintain your fat oxidation efficiency. Fat oxidation is an adaptation that the body can make over time so it helps to do cardio on a regular basis each week, even when you are focused on building muscle. There have been a few studies showing one or two cardio sessions a week on non strength days does not negatively impact strength and size gains, maintains conditioning, and maintains fat oxidation efficiency.

Haven
03-04-2003, 10:19 AM
My Body Fat percent is 12%, if that has any impact on cutting?

EdgeCrusher
03-04-2003, 12:01 PM
Get to 8% BF to see your abs. I'd say you shouldn't be bulking until you reach 8% BF. Cut till then.

-- but then again, im a psycho :) --

Berserker
03-04-2003, 12:18 PM
I'd probably start cutting or atleast eat a little over maintance. You can make gains while eating a little over maintanence and lose body fat. Its not the most productive but you can. Thats what I did for a year. Losses fat and made gains. Then I did my first bulk. Your wos are better bulking. Right now I am eating a little over maintanence, I was gonna bulk longer but my pants got to tight. I am gonna start cutting soon. I don't want to cut yet cause I like the good wos and progression, but I don't want to buy new pants either.
Plans are to cut until I see my abs, that way when I bulk again my bf won't be so high.

Shao-LiN
03-04-2003, 01:35 PM
Gaining LBM while shedding BF is usually a long process, which is why devoting time to one or the other is usually the suggested and more efficient way to go about things.

If you want to lose fat, you diet. That's pretty much the trick to it. You're going to gain a bit of fat during a bulk unless you are some genetic freak or using gear, so if you want to get back down to comfortable bf%, just go on a cutting cycle until you're comfortable and bulk again.

Silverback
03-04-2003, 02:29 PM
Shao if your using gear whilst bulking your still going to gain quite a bit of fat, the only exception is if your a genetic freak AND using gear at the same time

Haven, @ 12% body fat i would suggest to continue you bulking, but do it a little slower so you can focus on lean body mass (LBM).

Then again im not sure of your desired goals, e.g. how big you want to be and whether you have a time you want to be lean for?

best of luck mate

bradley
03-04-2003, 04:12 PM
Shao if your using gear whilst bulking your still going to gain quite a bit of fat, the only exception is if your a genetic freak AND using gear at the same time

I think the point Shao-Lin was making was that unless you are using AAS or are gifted genetically, it is hard to gain LBM and lose bf at the same time.

Keep in mind that if you don't have enough mass then I wouldn't worry to much about a little fat. No point in cutting if don't have much to cut down to. (Hope that makes sense:))

BUFF STUFF
03-04-2003, 04:37 PM
I think you should stick to your normal diet, add some ECA &/or cardio

Shao-LiN
03-04-2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Big-Ron
Shao if your using gear whilst bulking your still going to gain quite a bit of fat, the only exception is if your a genetic freak AND using gear at the same time



I'm aware of that.

Haven
03-04-2003, 05:09 PM
The only place I actully have fat is in my gut. The rest of my body is very lean. It just that my stomach is sticking out to about where my pecks would line up. My top abbs are good, but from there down, it makes kind of a hill if you will, just kinda portuds out. If yah can deciffer that, then you are my hero :).

BUFF STUFF
03-05-2003, 06:31 PM
Haven a short Clen cycle followed by a ECA cycle would sort that out no probs

Haven
03-05-2003, 10:41 PM
Sorry for being a newbie, but what is clen and eca?

Shao-LiN
03-06-2003, 12:11 AM
Dieting will sort that out. But, clen = clenbuterol, I think. ECA = Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin stack...basically weight loss aids.

Nothing to sort out. You have fat around your midsection. You can't target the loss, you just have to diet in order to get rid of it and any fat anywhere else on your body. The midsection is usually the first to grow, so it's the hardest to get rid of compared to other areas of your body.

sonik
03-06-2003, 07:22 AM
Damn i got the same problem as you..my whole upper body is pretty cut and i have the top two ab muscles but the bottom section pokes out and makes me look like a fat ass when i have a shirt on..about 8 months ago i had a six pack too

BUFF STUFF
03-06-2003, 03:46 PM
fat to be lost everywhere= clean diet, train + ECA stack

low body fat about 12% on abs=clean diet, train + Clen

search for the 2, personaly Id go for my ECAC stack

1 week on the ECA 1 week on Clen works wonders, Id explain why this works well but too lazy, just try it if u wana get cut up!

Tank23
03-07-2003, 12:16 AM
what exactly is clen? I know that it's a cutting aid....but where does it come from? i.e: ECA= ephedrine caffeine aspirin

Also where do you find this stuff? Is it safe to use? Any side effects?

smalls
03-07-2003, 02:38 PM
Buff, why are you suggesting clen to people who don't even know what it is. Also I'm pretty sure, st and chicken daddy have both explained why going straight from clen to eca is not the best idea.

BUFF STUFF
03-10-2003, 06:46 PM
Clen is a beta-2-symphatomimetic,
Clenbuterol burns fat without having to diet because it increases the body temp slightly, forcing your body to burn more fat.

The common 2 week cycle of clen is next to useless if permenent fatloss is wanted.

Because of the long halflife of clen its fat burning abilities only work for about 18 days (if taken day after day).
Users who often go on the 2 weeks on, 2 off cycle, get to a crash phase after use, then gaining all the fat they lost.

The best way to do a clen only cycle is having what I call a "ECAC" cycle which works wonders. Id do a 10-16 week cycle.

Cycling clen would work best 1 week 4-8 tabs Clen, next week ECA or just plain ephadrane. This way your beta-2 receptors remain active and fat loss is outstanding.

However with the old 2 weeks on 2 off,you are just starting to become clean off the clen (18 days) and you take again.
the 2 weeks cycle on-off has been only been a thoery featured in "the world anabolic review" & other rubbish AAS books with misleading information.



Hope that helps
BUFF

SteveC
03-10-2003, 09:45 PM
I doubt he wants to use Clen, let alone knows what it is and where to get it. Also, if you up the cardio to a few days a week, you will lose the fat, but unless you are still pretty new to weight training, you will have a VERY hard time gaining muscle.

So what can you do? Eat high protein, med / high fat, low to no carb. Go about 50% protein, 35% fat, 15% carb, and that 15% carb should only be for breakfast and post workout. If you can do this consistently, your body will learn to burn fat as a fuel source, and you can still make muscle gains. Only problem is you said you didn't know what eating clean is, so I don't know if you could keep us this diet, but who knows. I'm not trying to sound negative, but I'd say you'd have to learn to eat clean for a while before you would be able to try this.

DC Hardgainer
03-14-2003, 03:07 PM
i dont know if he is going to want to lower carbs that much, he could die ;) i know i would.