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Behemoth
03-13-2003, 04:05 PM
Would this be a good choice of a diet for someone who doesn't lift? All the info I've found on it sort of relates it to bodybuilding and I was wondering how useful it would be for someone not in dire need of catabolism prevention...?

raniali
03-13-2003, 04:12 PM
its called the Atkins diet

bradley
03-13-2003, 04:24 PM
Like Raniali said an SKD (Atkin's diet) would be more beneficial for a non-weightlifter IMO. Since the need for to refill muscle glycogen is irrelevant if they are not performing resistance training, or if they are only performing low/moderate intensity cardiovascular exercise.

Behemoth
03-13-2003, 04:29 PM
*sigh* of course I know about the atkins diet. The reason I asked about it, was for the reason that they enjoy eating carbs. And dropping them completely can be very difficult for some people.

bradley
03-13-2003, 04:44 PM
I am sure that you could still have a small carb up or cheat day, but it would slow fat loss.

Ironman8
03-13-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by raniali
its called the Atkins diet

LMAO! That's exactly what I was thinking before I came into this topic.

Berserker
03-14-2003, 10:36 AM
Atkins doesn't really dictate a refeed. The premise is you do a 2 week induction, 20g a day, then up it after that to a point where you still lose weight. If you refeed on Atkins diet, your supposed to do induction over again, but maybe not as long, can't remember. Atkins is a tough diet, but dieting sucks.
I did atkind when not lifting, lost about 7 pounds, only made it about 10 days. Went out of town, and its hard to keep on awy from home. It works for certain people.

Shao-LiN
03-14-2003, 01:39 PM
Just eat a balanced diet under maintenance if you don't want to do atkins or lift.

Ironman8
03-14-2003, 03:54 PM
If you plan to do vigerous excercise, I advice you not to go on the Atkins Diet. Carbohydrates are your main source of energy when lifting or doing cardio. And if you limit carbs and excercise, you probably won't last for 10 minutes. After that, you feel guilty and you over-eat. This is just my opinion though, so do whatever you want.

Behemoth
03-14-2003, 04:07 PM
Thanks, but the diet is not for me. For a family member who I mentioned a ketogenic diet that you get to eat carbs occasionally and they were intrigued.

bradley
03-14-2003, 04:23 PM
You Carbohydrates are your main source of energy when lifting or doing cardio

You can still perform low/moderate intensity cardio when performing the Atkin's diet.

Behemoth
03-14-2003, 05:46 PM
This post really does not pertain to how the diet relates to weightlifting, sorry if I confused you. But the question was more, would a CKD be a decent choice of a diet for someone that does not weightlift. Will it give them good results? How good of results?

raniali
03-14-2003, 05:54 PM
i dont think the ckd is a good choice for non-wtlifters. binging on carbs each weekend is balanced by the two training sessions right afterwards which facilitate a return to keto. ckd developed AFTER atkins in an effort to make keto dieting available for wt lifters.

Behemoth
03-15-2003, 11:28 AM
Thanks much raniali.

carolinagirl
03-15-2003, 02:38 PM
Actually, carb loads/refeeds should be incorporated into any diet that is below maintenance calorie level, according to Par from Avant Labs. Not so much for refilling the glycogen stores, (not important for the non-athlete), but to raise leptin levels, which will keep metabolism jacked up. (When leptin is low the body goes into starvation mode and stops shedding fat; leptin expression is triggered by glucose metabolism, ie refeeds. Far from slowing fat loss, if done right, refeeds facilitate continued fat loss.) So maybe a full CKD (actual ketosis and depletion workouts followed by refeeds) is unnecessary if she's not working out, but periodic refeeds would probably be a good idea.

Ironman8
03-15-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by carolinagirl
Actually, carb loads/refeeds should be incorporated into any diet that is below maintenance calorie level, according to Par from Avant Labs. Not so much for refilling the glycogen stores, (not important for the non-athlete), but to raise leptin levels, which will keep metabolism jacked up. (When leptin is low the body goes into starvation mode and stops shedding fat; leptin expression is triggered by glucose metabolism, ie refeeds. Far from slowing fat loss, if done right, refeeds facilitate continued fat loss.) So maybe a full CKD (actual ketosis and depletion workouts followed by refeeds) is unnecessary if she's not working out, but periodic refeeds would probably be a good idea.

Ya, this is very good advise.

bradley
03-15-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by carolinagirl
Actually, carb loads/refeeds should be incorporated into any diet that is below maintenance calorie level, according to Par from Avant Labs. Not so much for refilling the glycogen stores, (not important for the non-athlete), but to raise leptin levels, which will keep metabolism jacked up. (When leptin is low the body goes into starvation mode and stops shedding fat; leptin expression is triggered by glucose metabolism, ie refeeds. Far from slowing fat loss, if done right, refeeds facilitate continued fat loss.) So maybe a full CKD (actual ketosis and depletion workouts followed by refeeds) is unnecessary if she's not working out, but periodic refeeds would probably be a good idea.

Would this hold true with people at higher bf %'s? How often should someone incorporate refeeds if they are at a higher bf%? I was under the impression that refeeds become more important as your bf% decreases.

carolinagirl
03-15-2003, 06:36 PM
Yeah, that's true. The leptin levels in your body drop in correlation with several factors: duration of calorie restriction, amount of deviation from setpoint; total fat mass, etc. Fatter people do have higher leptin in general, but it drops like everyone else's with long-term calorie restriction. (The leaner you get, the faster it drops, and the more frequent refeeds you will need.)

I think the general rule is about once every 7-10 days for men over 20% (so, women over 28%). Basically, whenever the low-leptin signals start to show up in the body.

Ironman8
03-15-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by carolinagirl
(The leaner you get, the faster it drops, and the more frequent refeeds you will need.)


I thought leaner people need more refeeds due to their metabolism? Does metabolism have anything to do with the leptin levels?

carolinagirl
03-15-2003, 07:25 PM
Yes, and yes. The leaner you are, the faster your leptin levels will drop again after a refeed, and the sooner you will need another refeed.

Metabolism is primarily regulated by leptin (leptin is essentially a feedback mechanism that lets the body know how much energy it can afford to expend). When you have low levels of leptin (due to low overall fat mass or extended periods of sub-maintenance caloric intake) your body interprets this as signaling that you are starving; it slows the metabolic processes in order to conserve energy and keep you alive during the perceived famine. Raising the leptin levels through periodic refeeds 'tricks' the body into expending energy freely despite the actual starvation conditions.