48 hours for Saddam

[RisingPhoenix]

Bush just declared that Saddam and his nasty little sons have 48 hours to get outta town.....or else we'll go to war.

If Saddam doesn't leave, he is a dumber man than i thought.

either way, lets hope he does and that change comes peacefully.

If not, then lets pray for our soldiers and the Iraqi civilians.

[Ironman8]

He didn't leave before. What make Bush think he's gonna leave in 48hours? And yes, may God bless our soldiers and the Iraqi civialians.

[GIS]

They are giving an ultimatium just so they can say they did. Essentially, plan on bombs being dropped by Friday so say a prayer for both the coalition soliders and the Iraqi forces/civilians who have no other choice than to be puppets of Saddam's regiem.

[GIS]

Woah RP... I just realized you said give a prayer for the soliders and Iraqis as well... I didn't even see that when I posted.

[Ironman8]

LOL!

[Power-BB]

Yeah I'm worried....Hopefully from the get go, things will be like this :whip:

[RisingPhoenix]

Woah RP... I just realized you said give a prayer for the soliders and Iraqis as well... I didn't even see that when I posted.

Its all good. :D

I really wanna see a tyrant who gasses, tortures and kills his own people go.... I wanna see him dis-armed, and I wanna see Iraq prosper and become a democratic state so it can live up to its potential...

I sound like a "warhawk" on these forums, but I don't want US soldiers and Iraqi civilians to die....that would be terrible....if saddam leaves.... this will be a bloodless victory.

However unrealistic it may sound, thats what i'm hoping for.

If not, I hope our military kicks his ass without losing too many of our brave soldiers and without killing too many civilians.

[MrWebb78]

saddam has already moved his soldiers where he wants them, he has no intent on going without a fight.

[Buff]

I really hope this goes smooth and we don't end up losing to many innocent lives. I've got to many friends over there that thought they were signing up for the reserves just for the school money and now they are saying "oh damn". I hope that all of the brave soldiers make it out unharmed, and same goes for the innocent civilians of Iraq.

[Wizard]

There's not any doubt that Saddam is gonna stay in Iraq. The US may strike Iraq even before the 48h deadline because two Iraqi ministers (trade and oil) have said that he does not intend to leave the country.

The Iraqi foreign min. said earlier that any child in Iraq knew a demand for Saddam to go into exile would fail.

So, Ramsfeld wants a two day powerful attack before the land operations begin. The fact that some Iraqi generals are opposed to the regime and want to overthrow it may be proven crucial.

However I didn't understand why he (Bush) ordered the journalists to leave the country immediately.. I know that some of them have already departed from there (as wel as most of the foreigners) but what about the CNN and the international journalists? I am aware that they are staying in a hotel just some miles outside of Baghdad and that they are safe there. (hotel Palestine)

[PowerManDL]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3284-614607,00.html

[RisingPhoenix]

Thats absolutely disgusting...

It reinforces my point that Saddam's sons are worse than he is.

[Maki Riddington]

That's so sad.

[Manveet]

I wonder if Saddam will use chemical or biological weapons, and on whom. American soldiers?, Civilians? Israelis?

If that happens I can see a nuke being dropped on Iraq.

[MrWebb78]

saddam will definately get Israel involved, cuz then it means WW3. but he will use whatever he's got saved up, which is going to prove he has what hes been hiding, and it will also shut up all the anti war people who swear its about oil. jerkoffs

[EdgeCrusher]

I think he showed balls saying what he did. I think it would've been funnier if he said "You have till the end of my speech to leave" but that's just me.

[PowerManDL]

A nuke dropped in Iraq would be quite interesting.

You could forget the US military leaving the region any time soon, since we'd likely be at war with every Arab state in the region.

[MrWebb78]

using nukes to disarm nukes, hypocrisy at its finest

[GonePostal]

They would not nuke them. Even tatical nukes would inflict too many civilian casulties in an already "unjustified" war.
As for why journalists were ask to leave. They are going to be useless. There is very little chance they will be able to report what is actually going on from inside Iraq (not with the US army). Telephones, radio and even sats will be down inside Iraq. So there will no way to beam the info out.

[TommyLee]

I really don't think it would ever go nuclear. I really believe that the republican gaurd will fold like they did in 91'. They may have a few die hards that will actually follow orders to use chemical weapons, but for the most part I think they will realize that they have no chance of winning and that they would be risking their lives for "a dying regime". For the most part, they will probably want to be around for the new Iraq.

I'm praying for our troops and the innocent Iraqis. Our military is the BEST trained military in the world and I believe that everything that can be done to limit innocent casualties will be done.

The two things that scare me are the possibilty of chemical weapons used against us, and going in on a full moon. Our para-troopers will be vulnerable and because of Turkey's hesitation, that is our option for a northern front.

[RisingPhoenix]

Yeah, last time the US military took about 80,000 POW's.

They didn't want to fight.

[TommyLee]

No doubt, I swear I read a story in the Soldier of Fortune about a group of US soldiers that were out of ammo and stuck in their Hummer. They were approached by Iraqi troops and thought for sure that they were history. The Iraqis pulled their Hummer out and surrendered to US soldiers with no ammo. If that doesn't sum it up...

[Manveet]

I think they will nuke as soon as Sadam pulls out his nasty weapons against the American soldiers.

Kinda irrelevant, but what convinced the US to nuke Japan?

[TommyLee]

I'm watching the news right now and their is talk about intelligence info. that Saddam has dispensed chemical capabilities to atleast one of his Republican Gaurd forces.
Well, I think I know where the first bomb will be dropped. Having that weapon would be like playing "Hot Patato". You hold it... No No, you hold it... No seriosly, I was in a scud brigade in 91' and I know better, you hold it. I'm gonna go stand over there...

[TommyLee]

Originally posted by Manveet
I think they will nuke as soon as Sadam pulls out his nasty weapons against the American soldiers.

Kinda irrelevant, but what convinced the US to nuke Japan?

Because that was a race. If we hadn't bombed them they would have bombed us. We just got the bomb first...Thank God.

[Manveet]

Oh, and did anyone watch the news special they had a few nights back. They were talking about US's patriot missiles, and how they are not very accurate against Sadams scuds. During the gulf war apparently the US gov't lied about the efficiency of the patriot missiles. Apparently very few, if none at all destroyed their intended targets.

[TommyLee]

They've been upgraded...LOL

[Wizard]

His cruise missiles can only reach Kuwait.

Their technology is so surpassed..It's what they had bought from the Russians in the late 70's and they also lack spare parts.

They are unable to resist and their announcements aim in keeping their peoples' morale as high as possible and as anti-american as possible off course.

When the regime will be overthrown, they (the people of Iraq) will be thanking the Americans. It may sound bizarre but we can't forget that they were grown and they are still living in a state of fear.

[Wizard]

Originally posted by PowerManDL
You could forget the US military leaving the region any time soon, since we'd likely be at war with every Arab state in the region.

Saddam believes the Arab world, not just his country, is threatened by the United States but we can understand that he wants to be united with the other Arab states because in the lack of their support his chances of remaining in power diminish.

[GonePostal]

Originally posted by TommyLee


Because that was a race. If we hadn't bombed them they would have bombed us. We just got the bomb first...Thank God.
..... brush up on your history again... japan didn't have the will or the technical knowledge at that point to build a nuclear weapon.

[TommyLee]

Wrong...

[Sledgehammer]

We would not nuke the middle east, if things get really nasty look for MOAB to be dropped....we are looking only at conventional bombs at this point.

As far as the race with the bomb, I think he was saying that we and russia and a few others were in a race to develope and have the Nuclear "upperhand", I think Japan attacking us, and the world neck deep in a war, was the reason we dropped it. It did not take very long after the second one to understand it was time for it (war) to come to a hault.....

[GonePostal]

That would be accurate but that is not what he means.

[TommyLee]

Originally posted by GonePostal
That would be accurate but that is not what he means.

Ummm.... what?

Besides, holding the bomb that we dropped on Japan against the US today would be like holding Hitler against modern day Germany. Get over it! Have we forgotten that it did end the war and in turn save lives.

It's been mentioned a hundred times and held against us, how it took two years for us to get involved in WWII. We were attacked by Japan and thus provoked. Then it's held against us that we did what was necessary to end it. Now it's being held against that we are taking initiative and attacking our threat first. Is there anything that we can do to please the countries of the world? No, not unless were protecting any other country besides our own. Therefore I say to hell with it. Stop trying to please the world community and do what is necessary. Protect ourselves.

[GonePostal]

1. Japan never tried to develop the nuclear bomb. The race was with the US and the axis.
2. Yes the bomb did end the war but it was no where near necessary. There were other options including an invation of Japan. This was not done because it would cause another prolonged war and casualties that the US didn't want. Instead it decided to bomb and kill tens of thousands and effect thousands to come. In return American lives and Japanese lives were spared.
3. The war on Iraq is a shift in US policy seeing how this is a preemptive strike. This is unprecidented (debatable but none thhe less) That plus the US made a horrible case for war is the source for international resistance. The US can protect itself all it wants but it has to (and you have to) realize that it's actions affect the world not just them.

[Sledgehammer]

preemptive strike - this can be argued that we are first to hit them, or others say it is a continuation of the Gulf war of 91' because of Saddam's failure to comply with agreement for the bombing to stop....however I do think alot has changed since the last decade. Now days failure to act could be a graver danger than the intial action.....

[GonePostal]

agreed

[voodazz]

I got a bad feeling about this.....

[Manveet]

Does anyone think that Iraq, and the whole middle east region will become another Vietnam?

btw Tommylee how come Americans had to lie about the efficiency of their patriot missiles during the gulf war? Yes, they have been upgraded now, but what makes you so sure they will be more efficient. In 1991 they were considered a highly accurate and efficient missile, when they clearly were not.

[Sledgehammer]

I think MOAB is accurate all it has to do is hit ground within several miles of the target......

[Manveet]

lol, agreed. The damn thing doesn't even need to go off, just let it hit the ground and it will cause enough damage.

[Sledgehammer]

I do hope the US gets them liberated and gets out and lets the Iraqi people take control of the oil and their economy......

[Berserker]

Skimmed through this thread.
I don't think Sadam will leave. If you work your way up to leader of a country, you just don't quit. Its a once in a lifetime opprunity for him, hopfully a short one.
As far as bombing Japan. Lot of things could be said about that. Yes we may even be hypocrites at times(US). An invasion of Japan itself would have been long and destructive. Look how long it took just on the outer islands.
I had a chance to go to a seminar from a engineer on the Manhatten project, not a top guy. He had some thoughts of guilt, but then he said he had a guy thank him who at the time was on a ship heading for the south Pacific.

Heres an interesting question for you- Would we have dropped the bomb on germany if we had to? I don't think so. I hate to say it but they were white and european.

[GIS]

Of course Saddam won't leave. It's going to either have to be suicide, a bomb destroying his hideout, or we somehow (and unlikely) manage to find him and essentially arrest him.

The good news is Frane has said that should Saddam use chem/bio/nuclear weapons in the upcoming attack, it would change everything and France's position against war.

[The_Blackstar]

The reason we dropped the bomb on Japan was not because they were anywhere near devolping one themselves. We were worried that Germany was getting close to getting a nuke, but after victory in Europe, we knew they had no idea what they were doing. Japan getting the nuclear bomb was not a concern.

The main reason we decided to drop the bomb on Japan was because an invasion of the japanese mainland would have cost hundreds of thousands of US lives, not to mention the loss of civilian live on the Japanese side. Based on how hard the japanese fought on Okanawa and Iwo Jima, the estamates for US casualties for a mainland invasion were tremendous. Also, an invasion of Japan would make the war dragg on for years.

The best option was to nuke Japan, and we did it twice, to let them know we ment business. It may sound strange that the A-bomb saved lives, but it actually did, on both sides....

[RisingPhoenix]

I don't think this will be another vietnam..... the military has changed alot since then, and Iraq is hella different culturally and geographically from vietnam.

and Japan didn't have nuclear weapons.... that much is true.

But Japan DID have a chemical/biological weapons program and "tested" them on Chinese civilians.

In fact, I remember watching a show on the Discovery channel which showed that the Japanese were planning to dump plague infected fleas on San Diego.

[Rastaman]

Originally posted by Manveet
I think they will nuke as soon as Sadam pulls out his nasty weapons against the American soldiers.

Kinda irrelevant, but what convinced the US to nuke Japan?

Dude, what the hell are you thinking? Theres no WAY that the US is going to drop a nuke on Iraq. Jesus Christ.

[MrWebb78]

lol @ the plague, i guess then it was a serious threat, but now its kind of a joke.

[nate allan]

Originally posted by The_Blackstar
The reason we dropped the bomb on Japan was not because they were anywhere near devolping one themselves. We were worried that Germany was getting close to getting a nuke, but after victory in Europe, we knew they had no idea what they were doing. Japan getting the nuclear bomb was not a concern.

The main reason we decided to drop the bomb on Japan was because an invasion of the japanese mainland would have cost hundreds of thousands of US lives, not to mention the loss of civilian live on the Japanese side. Based on how hard the japanese fought on Okanawa and Iwo Jima, the estamates for US casualties for a mainland invasion were tremendous. Also, an invasion of Japan would make the war dragg on for years.

The best option was to nuke Japan, and we did it twice, to let them know we ment business. It may sound strange that the A-bomb saved lives, but it actually did, on both sides....


Incorrect, The best option was to allow Japan to surrender with conditions. The U.S was so hell bent on getting unconditional surrender that they were willing to murder 100,000's of innocent civillians.

The Japanese were prepared to surrender before Hiroshima, aslong as that the Emporerer was given protection. There was never a need to Nuke Japan or invade.

The only reason the Bomb was dropped was to deter the Soviets from taking more of Asia.

[Reinier]

Theyre not leaving. theyre psyching up their people, recruiting all around, and they got them weapons theyre supposedly being attacked for for this kind of situation in the first place.

I still have Iraqi tv now but the stations are all targets. I suppose we like onesided reporting.

[Manveet]

Rastaman; How will the US respond if Iraq starts unleasing some nasty weapons againts the US soldiers?

[Reinier]

there are some things in between a nuke and gunfire manveet.
Theyre attacking without the UN nod.
if they use nukes here, people will be like :mad:

[TommyLee]

Originally posted by Manveet
Does anyone think that Iraq, and the whole middle east region will become another Vietnam?

btw Tommylee how come Americans had to lie about the efficiency of their patriot missiles during the gulf war? Yes, they have been upgraded now, but what makes you so sure they will be more efficient. In 1991 they were considered a highly accurate and efficient missile, when they clearly were not.

No, I'm sure it won't be another Vietnam.

On Patriot Missiles: I have no idea why they lied... If that's the case. I really don't care.

[RisingPhoenix]

lol @ the plague, i guess then it was a serious threat, but now its kind of a joke.

Some of the Japanese generals wanted to use Anthrax insead of the plague on San diego, which would have been even worse.

They tested all kinds of stuff on the Chinese (Anthrax, Cholera, bunch of other diseases), including poison gas.

Japan's biological/chemical weapons program is something that is rarely discussed even nowadays when information about it has come to light.

Fact is, If we had given them more time they would have done the same thing to us.

anyone who doesn't believe me, do a search for "Unit 71" of the japanese military.

[Manveet]

Theyre attacking without the UN nod.

Oh ya. I see now.

[Rastaman]

Originally posted by Manveet
Rastaman; How will the US respond if Iraq starts unleasing some nasty weapons againts the US soldiers?


They won't respond with a nuclear bomb you silly bastard.

[Budiak]

Seriously. I dont think we have any interest in levelling the entire place, especially since even commanders in the republican guard are considering cooperation (basically giving Saddam the finger).

If Saddam uses anything on anyone, I'd think he'd nuke his own troops and people. He's that nuts. And BTW, he'd blame it on the US too. He's done pretty much everything short of that already.

[Maki Riddington]

Mr Lee your remarks pertaining to the Japanese and the bomb being dropped on them are astonishingly uneducated. It would appear that you lack the common sense to brush up on your history. In light of this, I would ask that you apply your god given brain and use it to your fullest capabilities before you submit another post.

Thank you.

[PowerManDL]

I wouldn't rule that out in all honesty.

Scorched earth is the last resort of the spiteful.

[DoubleGulp]

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/saddam_ballot.jpg

[ViperGTSR]

saddam is going to hell just like in south park the movie

[TommyLee]

Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Mr Lee your remarks pertaining to the Japanese and the bomb being dropped on them are astonishingly uneducated. It would appear that you lack the common sense to brush up on your history. In light of this, I would ask that you apply your god given brain and use it to your fullest capabilities before you submit another post.

Thank you.

Damn... that's pretty harsh. I'm devistated...really...:cry:

Ok badass, I did some checking and I retract my statements about them working on a bomb, but I still think it was the right move to do what we did because it saved American lives.
Before you insult my common sense and intelligence I would ask that you atleast use your obvious intellectual superiority and enlighten us with your position on the subject, instead of just interjecting your insults.

[MrWebb78]

double gulp, i see you voted for the same guy i did!

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by TommyLee


Damn... that's pretty harsh. I'm devistated...really...:cry:

Ok badass, I did some checking and I retract my statements about them working on a bomb, but I still think it was the right move to do what we did because it saved American lives.
Before you insult my common sense and intelligence I would ask that you atleast use your obvious intellectual superiority and enlighten us with your position on the subject, instead of just interjecting your insults.

*** I have already posted on this subject in another thread here in the General Forum. I will do my best to find it and bump it to the top.

[Maki Riddington]

Tommy, the info you were asking for is in the thread "americans."

My thoughts start on page 4, I believe.

[Berserker]

Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Tommy, the info you were asking for is in the thread "americans."

My thoughts start on page 4, I believe.
Your post came across a bit arrogant, then to justify yourself you bump an old thread and say look for my opinion. I am not gonna bother.

[Maki Riddington]

Ok Beserker.

[Budiak]

Hey you guys voted for Saddam, too? Wow, we have more in common than I thought!