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lick
01-30-2001, 10:01 AM
I just wanted to know how many people incorporated dairy products into their diets, and which ones? I am in a semi-bulking phase and currently use Fat free milk, organic if i can afford it, for my protein/carb shakes. I also eat fat free cottage cheese and yogurt for maybe 2 meals a day.

what does everyone else think of dairy?

gino
01-30-2001, 10:30 AM
I restrict my dairy intake because of the lactose. Lactic acid is counter-productive to training and fat loss.

Frankster
01-30-2001, 10:37 AM
Hum, i dont know but i think lactose is the sugar contained in milk and lactic acid, the muscle waste product? i dont think its the same thing. However, i do think that lactose is not good for us. I recently read an article on The milk industry and im not too much of a milk fan now, they stated pretty good reasons why milk is not as good as they want us too think.

The_Chicken_Daddy
01-30-2001, 10:55 AM
I drink loads of milk. I get about 900 cals a day from it!

I'm gonna cut it completely when i start to diet, and at first replace it with oatmeal or rice, then over the course of a few weeks, gradually reduce the oatmeal or rice until i'm down to my diet level of cals.

Paul Stagg
01-30-2001, 11:16 AM
mmmmmmmmmm.... Milk.

I drink lots of milk, unless I'm dieting - and I cut it out due to the high carb content. I could include it, but I like to get as many cals from solid food as i can when I have to limit what I eat.

chris mason
01-30-2001, 11:24 AM
Frankster is correct, no relationship between lactose and lactic acid. There is nothing wrong with milk especially if you drink fat free milk.

kat
01-30-2001, 11:53 AM
I detest milk, but I drink fat free stuff..one cup a day 5 days a week cause I'm susceptible to osteoporosis and never remember to take my damn calcium pills...disgusting stuff though.

gino
01-30-2001, 12:07 PM
Oh yes, there is a relationship. I did a research paper on the issue in college. Here is some info for your reading pleasure...

Lactose, with formula C12H22O11, is the predominant sugar in milk. Upon hydrolysis, lactose gives glucose and galactose. In the presence of the enzymes in the digestive tract, it ferments into lactic acid and butyric acid.

Undigested lactose fermented by bacteria in the digestive tract, creates lactic acid and other short-chain fatty acids.

Small amounts of lactic acid occur in blood, in muscles, and in other body fluids and organs. They are produced by body tissues, primarily muscle, that obtain energy by metabolizing sugar(lactose) in the absence of oxygen. The building up of large amounts of lactic acid in muscle leads to fatigue and can cause cramps. Lactic acid, generated in milk by fermentation of lactose, causes the souring of milk. Lactic acid is used in preparing cheese, sauerkraut, soft drinks, and other food products.


[Edited by gino on 01-30-2001 at 02:28 PM]

chris mason
01-30-2001, 12:42 PM
Gino, in your research you noted that enzymes in the digestive tract help to ferment lactose into lactic acid. Then you mentioned how lactic acid can cause fatigue and cramps in the muslces. What you are not getting is that there is no connection between the two. Lactic acid buildup in the muscles is a byproduct of glycolysis (anaerobic breakdown of glucose to form ATP). This process has nothing to do with what happens in the digestive tract. If (and I'm not sure this happens) the lactic acid formed in the digestive tract was reabsorbed into the bloodstream it would not cause a large enough buildup to inhibit weight training. That is what I meant by no relationship. The lactic acid buildup in muscle is due to anaerobic metabolism of glucose and is significant only in those muscles being worked.

gino
01-30-2001, 02:36 PM
I did not restrict the conversion(lactose to lactic acid) to what takes place in the digestive tract and I am aware that it is not an immediate conversion. There are many steps to the glycolysis process. My point is that NON-GLUCOSE sugars can also take part in glycolysis Chris. These include LACTOSE, maltose, mannose, and sucrose. Glycolysis occurs in two major stages, the first of which is the conversion of the various sugars to a common intermediate, GLUCOSE-6-phosphate. The second major phase is the conversion of glucose-6-phosphate to pyruvate. The products of glycolysis are further metabolized to complete the breakdown of glucose. Their ultimate fate varies depending upon the organism. Often, lactic acid is the final product produced from pyruvic acid, and the process is referred to as homolactic fermentation. In the tissues of many organisms, including mammals, glycolysis is ALSO a prelude to the complex metabolic process that ultimately converts pyruvic acid to carbon dioxide and water with the production of much ATP and the consumption of oxygen.

SO, having said that(what a mouthful), how does minimal amounts of sugars(including digested lactose) in the blood affect this reaction? What about an abundant amount of these sugars?

chris mason
01-30-2001, 05:40 PM
Look Gino, usually you give very to the point and accurate explanations of things, but this time you seem to be spewing a lot of scientific terms with no logical relationship or conclusion. In your first post, you stated "I restrict my dairy intake because of lactose. Lactic acid is counter-productive to training and fat loss." Your next post tried to further the link between lactose and lactic acid in the muscles. My point was that the lactic acid that contributes to muscular fatigue has nothing to do with drinking milk other than the fact that your body can derive glucose from the lactose in milk. I'm not sure that you really understand what you are saying. Glycolysis is a necessary function in order to sustain strenuous exercise for more than about 15 seconds. Lactic acid is part of the end result of glycolysis when oxygen is not present in sufficient quantities (weightlifting for example). This lactic acid buildup which contributes to muscular failure is what you might call a necessary evil. You would not be able to train for more than 15 seconds without it. Glycolysis ONLY occurs with glucose. Now, glucose is DERIVED from other sugars, but it is the only sugar used in glycolysis. You need glucose to function properly. So, to not drink milk because it contains lactose is unfounded. If the majority of carbs you ingest are complex in nature, some simple sugars are fine. Excessive simple sugars are not prudent because they cause insulin spikes. What happens in the digestive tract with the lactose from milk has little or no bearing on your training.

chris mason
01-30-2001, 05:41 PM
By the way, I was happy to admit my error on the cardio speed post.

gino
01-31-2001, 07:05 AM
I don't understand what I'm saying. OK. No more on this subject.