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mantis
03-22-2003, 03:26 AM
Hi there,

This may sound funny, but what's your opinion on eating Banana as your main source of low GI forms of carb?

Rice has always been my main source for carb intake. However, as far as I can tell, Rice has fairly high GI. Since Banana is low-fat and low on GI, wouldn't it be a good replacement?

I'm still gonna try to eat lots of veggies and high fiber cereals. But would it be a good idea to eat 4 or 5 bananas a day to replace my normal Rice intake?

Thanks

Mantis

PS: Training goal, more Mass!!!

Reinier
03-22-2003, 04:12 AM
i thought bananas were high gi

bradley
03-22-2003, 04:48 AM
I would recommend getting your carbs from sources like oats, sweet potatoes, beans, veggies, etc. The glycemic index is not that important IMO. When you eat a high GI index carb with a meal that contain proteins and fat the GI becomes less important because the protein and fat in the meal will slow the digestion of the high GI carb.

Bananas contain fructose which is the reason I wouldn't make them the main carb in my diet, but a couple of bananas a day would be fine IMO.


i thought bananas were high gi

They rate roughly 60 on the GI index depending on how ripe they are

Ironman8
03-22-2003, 08:42 AM
Isn't the banana more starchy when it's ripe?

aka23
03-22-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Ironman8
Isn't the banana more starchy when it's ripe?

In under-ripe bananas 80-90% of the carbohydrates are starch. As the banana ripens the starch changes to free sugars. In addition up to 40% of the starch in unripe bananas may not be absorbed, while nearly all the starch is absorbed in ripe bananas. The differences cause the GI to increase from about 55 to 90 as the banana ripens on the bread=100 scale, or about 45 to 75 on the glucose=100 scale.

aka23
03-22-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by bradley
Bananas contain fructose which is the reason I wouldn't make them the main carb in my diet, but a couple of bananas a day would be fine IMO.

A smaller portion of banana's sugar is in the form of fructose than most fruits. More of their sugars are in the form of glucose and sucrose than fructose as listed on the table at http://www.geocities.com/perfectapple/sugar_carbohydrates_acid.html The table indicates that they have about 3.8g fructose per banana. In the interview on this site, Lyle Mcdonald says negative effects of fructose begin at 50-60 grams per day. Most authorities set much higher limits. 50g of fructose is more than 13 bananas per day (or more than 7 if you split the sucrose in two and add to fructose). Mantis's suggestion of "4 or 5 bananas a day" should not cause fructose problems unless he was eating a lot of other high fructose sugars.

aka23
03-22-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by mantis
This may sound funny, but what's your opinion on eating Banana as your main source of low GI forms of carb?

Rice has always been my main source for carb intake. However, as far as I can tell, Rice has fairly high GI. Since Banana is low-fat and low on GI, wouldn't it be a good replacement?

I'm still gonna try to eat lots of veggies and high fiber cereals. But would it be a good idea to eat 4 or 5 bananas a day to replace my normal Rice intake?

Bananas serve as a staple food for a significant portion of the developing world. Intakes much higher than your suggestion are common in certain areas. I think bananas are better suited for a stable than almost any other fruit because of their mixture of slow/fast digesting carbs and mixture of different types of sugar. I think a banana or two per day is a good addition to your diet. However, 4-5 per day may be limiting your variety, and grains have a lot of nutrients that bananas do not. Bananas are not an adequate subsitute for grains.

Brown rice has roughly the same GI as a banana. White rice is much higher. If you want to reduce the GI of your rice, you might want to use brown rice or try other low GI grains such as oatmeal. Most whole grains have GIs that are as low as a banana. I would suggest eating a variety of grains, including both brown rice and bananas. This helps insure that you get adequate nutrients.

restless
03-22-2003, 12:01 PM
And they're high in potassium too which is a good thing.

Ironman8
03-22-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by mantis
This may sound funny, but what's your opinion on eating Banana as your main source of low GI forms of carb?

IMO, you should divide everything you eat. Don't just eat bananas. They don't have all the nutrients an apple has, and an apple doesn't have all the nutrients a orange has, etc.. So you should eat different veggies and fruits everyday.

mantis
03-22-2003, 01:45 PM
Thank you all for your comment and suggestions.

Ironman8
03-22-2003, 01:47 PM
No problem.

Short N Buff
03-23-2003, 04:10 PM
monkeys eat bananas. men eat apples

mantis
03-23-2003, 05:19 PM
LOL!!!! Maybe that's why I haven't seen a fat monkey.....

Ironman8
03-23-2003, 06:44 PM
But squirrels run alot, and most of them are chubby :)

Short N Buff
03-23-2003, 07:28 PM
the squirrels at berkeley are the biggest anywhere. those hippies keep feeding them.

i once tried giving one a lays chip. it approached it, smelled it, and then ran away from it :cry:

ironpomme
03-23-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by restless
And they're high in potassium too which is a good thing.

Yeh especially if your on low carb as you can be deficient in Potassium in those cases. Banana would help with that.

AJ_11
03-23-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by ironpomme


Yeh especially if your on low carb as you can be deficient in Potassium in those cases. Banana would help with that.

But that would defeat the purpose of the low carb diet them. There are alot of other food that are rich in potassium.

aka23
03-24-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Short N Buff
monkeys eat bananas. men eat apples

Plenty of men eat bananas. Bananas are the world's most popular fruit. They are a staple for hundreds of millions of persons in devoloping countries, and the most popular fruit sold in the United States. The average man eats more bananas than apples. Studies of primate diets in zoos show that their monkeys eat about the same amount of apples and bananas.


Originally posted by Short N Buff
the squirrels at berkeley are the biggest anywhere. those hippies keep feeding them.

You should see the squirrels across the bay at Stanford. The ones that hang out near the freshmen dining halls look obese. Lots of students eat outside and do not clean up well. Some of the squirrels are agressive enough to enter student's rooms through open windows.

ironpomme
03-24-2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by AJ_11


But that would defeat the purpose of the low carb diet them. There are alot of other food that are rich in potassium.

There are 30 grams of carbs in a small banana. I'm sure eating one or shoving it in a shake it well within the average body builders ability to fuel off. You wouldn't eat a banana if you were on Atkins Induction phase ( 20 gram carb allowance per day) or something, but we're certainly able to eat up to 60-100 grams of carbs per day as body builders, even on low carb side of things. Bananas would be good after a workout--I just zapped one in my shake actually with peanut butter--yummy. Especially after a good one hour workout. The body is low in carbs anyway at that time and the muscles would soak it all up so it couldn't be stored as fat anyhow. If you ate too many that may cause a problem. :D

ironpomme
03-24-2003, 01:43 AM
I forgot to say, most potassium is found in carby foods such as fruits and vegies. Very little in protein..so on a high protein diet make sure you get plenty of vegies and fruit. I guess if you want a wuick zap of carb though you can stick a banana in a shake after a workout. That's why when your low carbing, you are quite deficient in it. The only other way is in cranberry tablets or No.Salt or something other than getting enough vegies and fruit. You need up to 300mg atleast per day on a low carb diet. Due to excessive peeing when in ketogenic mode, you lose a lot also.


POTASSIUM FOODS

Almond nuts, Apricots, Artichokes, Bananas, Barley, Beans-lima, Beef, Beets, Beet greens, Blackberries, Blueberries, Broccoli, Brussel sprouts, Carrots, Cauliflower, Chayote, Cherries-wild black, Chervil, Chicken, Chicory, Chives, Coconuts, Corn, Cucumbers, Currants-black, Dandelion greens, Duck, Eggplant, Endive, Figs-black mission, Grapes, Halibut-smoked, Honey, Horseradish, Kale, Kohlrabi, Lamb, Lemons, Lentils, Lettuce-sea, Limes, Mangoes, Mushrooms, Mustard greens, Olives, Onions-white, Parsnips, Parsley, Peaches, Peanuts, Pecans, Potato-baked, Prunes, Radish-black, Radish-red, Raisins, Spinach, Turnips, Watercress, Zucchini

bradley
03-24-2003, 02:34 AM
If you are performing an SKD or CKD I doubt that you would be eating many bananas except maybe when carbing up on the CKD. I agree that bananas are a good source of potassium but when following a ketogenic diet you should be taking in vitamin and mineral supplements to make sure that you are not deficient in anything.

AJ_11
03-24-2003, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by ironpomme
I forgot to say, most potassium is found in carby foods such as fruits and vegies. Very little in protein..so on a high protein diet make sure you get plenty of vegies and fruit. POTASSIUM FOODS


Protein foods do contain potassium. Not as much vegetables but there are plenty of protein rich foods that contain potassium. Fats are the ones that have less.


Originally posted by ironpomme
Almond nuts, Apricots, Artichokes, Bananas, Barley, Beans-lima, Beef, Beets, Beet greens, Blackberries, Blueberries, Broccoli, Brussel sprouts, Carrots, Cauliflower, Chayote, Cherries-wild black, Chervil, Chicken, Chicory, Chives, Coconuts, Corn, Cucumbers, Currants-black, Dandelion greens, Duck, Eggplant, Endive, Figs-black mission, Grapes, Halibut-smoked, Honey, Horseradish, Kale, Kohlrabi, Lamb, Lemons, Lentils, Lettuce-sea, Limes, Mangoes, Mushrooms, Mustard greens, Olives, Onions-white, Parsnips, Parsley, Peaches, Peanuts, Pecans, Potato-baked, Prunes, Radish-black, Radish-red, Raisins, Spinach, Turnips, Watercress, Zucchini

Most of these foods listed are better choices than bananas for low carbers. When following a strict Keto diet, bananas are usuasally avoided due to amt of fructose they contain and the amount of carbs in a single banana.

Ironman8
03-24-2003, 07:18 AM
I thought when you're on the Atkins diet, you only get to eat half a banana?

ironpomme
03-24-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Ironman8
I thought when you're on the Atkins diet, you only get to eat half a banana?

On induction you get to eat what you want as long as you stay within the 20 grams carbs. This is exactly it. If someone wants to eat a banana for their whole days intake, it's their take isn't it? However, it makes it a lot harder to get through the rest of that day with no carbs, so that's the only reason they arn't remmended and your encouraged to eat something with less carbs to fill you up and satiate you.

A lot of fruits have fructose and I don't even worry about that ingredient half the time. The sugar is taken into consideration anyhow when you count carbs. Keto for body builders is not half as strict as the Atkins diet regime in fact and if a BB ate a banana it would be no big deal. Your not even supposed to eat fruit for the first phase of the Atkins diet so one of the beauties of being a BB and a sport person is you can eat these things and "deserve" to vecause of the amount of energy you expend above the people that just diet and don't do sod all.
Well this is the way I look at it anyway. With an increase in metabolism, muscle need extra. Whereas those on strict keto diets (very low in carbs) may lose mass and therefore need less and less in the way of carbs. Especially if it is too strict. I stalled on keto actually and couldn't lift at all nearly half the amount I had because the carbs were cut back TOO much. As soon as I upped them (and bananas were one of the food I used to do that added to shakes) I started to lose weight again. Go figure!

bradley
03-24-2003, 02:04 PM
I am saying that a banana would not be ideal for someone performing the Atkin's diet or a CKD (except during a carb up). The whole point of a ketogenic diet is to stay in ketosis, and eating a banana would more than likely kick you out of ketosis. If you are wanting to eat carbs around your training then perform a TKD which is designed this way.


I stalled on keto actually and couldn't lift at all nearly half the amount I had because the carbs were cut back TOO much. As soon as I upped them (and bananas were one of the food I used to do that added to shakes) I started to lose weight again. Go figure!


The reason your weight training suffered is due to the lack of muscle glycogen which will occur when performing diets like the Atkin's Diet which have no scheduled carb ups. A diet such as the TKD or CKD would be much better for someone who trains with weights. Both of these diets include carbs which are eaten to refill muslce glycogen. When performing a TKD you eat carbs around your training and when performing a CKD you have scheduled 1 or 2 day carb ups every 5 or 6 days.

ironpomme
03-24-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by bradley

I am saying that a banana would not be ideal for someone performing the Atkin's diet or a CKD (except during a carb up). The whole point of a ketogenic diet is to stay in ketosis, and eating a banana would more than likely kick you out of ketosis.

Ketosis is something that is different for everyone. Some people are more active than other's so a banana may knock some folks out of ketosis and be fine in those that are very active. It depends what else they eat in the way of carbs. This guy at the top here want to eat nothing but a few bananas as "replacement" for rice. He may have larger muscle mass than you or I and therefore a banana is not going to be any big deal at all. he'll burn it off in no time. You or I may not. I am beginning BB so I have less muscle mass than a lot of you guys, so I accept you metabolisms are running higher than mine and you need more calories and MORE carb grams to keep that mass. So yes he can do that but perhaps not quite as many as he had planned. Just get the keto stix out and start testing. It's easy. He'd eat less in the way of banana than rice where carb grams are concerned, but then banana has this wonderful way of making you feel satiated and more satsified than a portion of tastless rice. I'd say go for it but make sure they arn't ripe--- the more green in them the better. In fact I add cream and mixed nuts to mine and it makes a meal.




If you are wanting to eat carbs around your training then perform a TKD which is designed this way.

I did TKD. Actually that was after doing Atkins. I found it very good actually, infact it is what I do now. I follow the zone diet (medium carbs) kind of a fistful of this and palm sized size of that at every meal, but I have relaized that I need more carb around my workouts, so I use bananas in a shake. I am STILL losing weight steadily and this is with NO cardio. My workout absorbs the carbs and I am STILL in ketosis later. You don't have to drop a full banana in there--it can be half or three quarters. It still gives the shake a banana flavor.[/b]


The reason your weight training suffered is due to the lack of muscle glycogen which will occur when performing diets like the Atkin's Diet which have no scheduled carb ups.


Yes I was well aware of this. The reason for the Atkins diet was to lose fat quickly and then just get on with it after that. I lost 10 lbs in one week and then hit the TKD diet. I also did CKD but found it to be to silly a diet. I see little point starving yourself of carbs and then overdosing. It causes mineral deficiencies and other deficiencies such as in B vitamins and that effects drastic mood swings. I value my mental health. I'd rather stay on a low carb diet (with enough carbs for my every day needs) and then hit the carbs a little higher before and after a workout. i know about TKD and CKD. :) I would not be posting on the topic otherwise.

A diet such as the TKD or CKD would be much better for someone who trains with weights. Both of these diets include carbs which are eaten to refill muslce glycogen. When performing a TKD you eat carbs around your training and when performing a CKD you have scheduled 1 or 2 day carb ups every 5 or 6 days.