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ElPietro
03-24-2003, 09:03 AM
My memory if foggy on this, but what is it that seems so critical about water consumption whilst on a cut? Does it have to do with lipolysis? Is it this specific process that requires so much water? Or does it tie in more with carb depletion? As it seems the fewer carbs I consume the more dehydrated I become, or more easily dehydrated I can become.

Just wondering, as whenever I cut, I dehydrate very quickly, and always seem to have a dry mouth, and need to consume quite a bit of water, yet seem to have to take a leak so much more often, usually more than once per hour at times.

It gets to the point now where I have to put a huge cup of water by my bed at night, as I'll continuously wake up with my mouth completely bone dry, and since I'm a lazy bastard will generally lay there for quite some time before I get up and walk to the kitchen for a glass.

Anyway, I can't seem to remember all the background processes that are happening here, so if someone could let me know that would be cool.

:cool::cool:

Raj
03-24-2003, 09:40 AM
I dunno where I read it....but I read 1 fl.oz per lb of bodyweight should do the trick

Hope this helps

Raj

ElPietro
03-24-2003, 09:44 AM
It doesn't but thanks. ;) :D

Isaac Wilkins
03-24-2003, 09:47 AM
Depending upon your level of carb restriction a couple of things could be happening.

With lower carbs in your diet, your glycogen stores are depleted. A great deal of water is stored with this glycogen, as I'm sure you know. This water has to go somewhere when it's not holding or being held by glycogen (bathroom trips). This is why people lose water weight fast by decarbing. Of course, less water in your system/more trips to the bathroom = dehydration.

If you actually hit ketosis, then water is good for you in that it helps flush ketones and other metabolic waste from your system. In this way it helps you lose some fat. Even when you're not in ketosis water helps flush some waste from your cells, be it from damage or cutting phenomenon.

I drink well over a gallon of water a day anyway, so I don't tend to feel dehydrated. In the event that I don't get my water, I do cottonmouth quickly, especially on a CKD.

We're roughly the same size, with similar body shape characteristics. I think that we react similarly: We're water buffaloes. :D

ElPietro
03-24-2003, 09:52 AM
Yeah, with carb depletion this will happen. And I'm sure this is a big part of it. I just was wondering with regards to lipolysis, I remember discussing long ago how it requires water, and if you do not stay adequately hydrated, you can basically stop it from happening.

I agree with the "flushing out" stuff, but I am wondering about the actual process of fat burning as well.

Personally, I doubt I am ever in ketosis, and it's not really my goal, as I realize that I probably don't have the discipline, diet wise to follow this form of diet. Most of my carb depletion would come from actual activity, however, when I combine that with dietary restriction it can result in very low glycogen levels I'm sure. I find quite often at night, that even if I drink an entire glass, I can be dry-mouthed again in like 5-10 minutes.

Thanks. :)

IceRgrrl
03-24-2003, 10:00 AM
Some of it comes down to biological chemistry: Roughly, it takes one molecule of water to synthesize or degrade one unit of a carbohydrate molecule (it's more complicated than that, but that's the general idea). It takes three water molecules to synthesize or degrade a basic triglyceride (building blocks of lipids) molecule. So if you are on a cut and restricting carbs in order to force your body to degrade your fat stores for use as energy, your body will need more water to accomplish that task than if it was degrading mainly carbs.

Isaac Wilkins
03-24-2003, 10:01 AM
:bang: I'm an idiot. Sorry, I misunderstood your post.


I was surprised that you were asking the questions that you were, I assumed you knew the answers I gave (which you did). *sigh*

I've heard that water is required for the chemical reaction of lipolysis to occur. I'm trying to remember exactly what I've read on it. Most of the body's reactions require water, and I'm betting that lipolysis is a low man on the totem pole for resource partitioning if water is not present in adaquate amounts. ie the body's conservation of self and reserves, etc.

Hm...

I'll research this a little more tonight. Perhaps PMan or carolinagirl can jump in for the meantime, they may already have the info at their fingertips.

IceRgrrl
03-24-2003, 11:01 AM
Here's diagram of the synthesis reaction of two simple carbohydrates (more complex carbohydrates are just longer chains of simple carbohydrates). Producing one molecule of sucrose kicks out one molecule of water as a by-product. The reverse process of degradation means that it requires one molecule of water to break the sucrose down into two simple sugars.

EDIT: I resized it and reposted it below

IceRgrrl
03-24-2003, 11:04 AM
Here's a diagram of a triglyceride, a glycerol plus three fatty acid chains. I circled the three water molecules.

the doc
03-24-2003, 12:08 PM
what icer just posted

ElPietro
03-24-2003, 12:11 PM
*dreamy sigh* Wow, how do you stay beautiful, and smart at the same time... :drooling:

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.

Borris no problem man. You still gave good info, and I'm sure many others would benefit from what you said. :)

ElPietro
03-24-2003, 12:13 PM
FYI, doc posted while I was making my post, my comments were directed towards IceRgrrl. :)

IceRgrrl
03-24-2003, 01:55 PM
Here's diagram of the synthesis reaction of two simple carbohydrates (more complex carbohydrates are just longer chains of simple carbohydrates). Producing one molecule of sucrose kicks out one molecule of water as a by-product. The reverse process of degradation means that it requires one molecule of water to break the sucrose down into two simple sugars.

Resized for better viewing:

IceRgrrl
03-24-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by ElPietro
*dreamy sigh* Wow, how do you stay beautiful, and smart at the same time... :drooling:

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.



Why thank you, kind sir :) Glad my endless bank of useless knowledge could be of help...

Ironman8
03-24-2003, 05:13 PM
Oh come on Ice, I just came out of Science class :D

ElPietro
03-24-2003, 08:26 PM
Is the difference between glycerol and fatty acid one oxygen atom?

Man chemistry used to be my thing long ago but I'm afraid I'm not as good as I used to be. Isn't the middle of the glycerol chain missing one hydrogen atom as well?

Haha if I only had those little connect-it plastic molecules. :D

Also, how does glycerol, bonding with fatty acids to form triglycerides actually metabolize lipids? I'm guessing your body treats triglycerides differently, or do lipids get pulled out of wherever they are by the bond?

This is an area I "kinda" know what I'm talking about, but not at the molecular level, and I'm curious, yet strangely too lazy to search on my own. ;)

PowerManDL
03-24-2003, 08:31 PM
NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRDDSSSS!!!!

the doc
03-24-2003, 08:33 PM
no when the lipids are ready to be metabolized they are hydrolized from triglycerides to their fatty acid componets + glycerol

ElPietro
03-24-2003, 08:44 PM
Bah, I am reading more and more, and it's getting a tad more complex, with adipose tissue, co-enzymes, receptors and other poop.

Yeah, Mark I see what you are saying. I realized this as I read more, I was looking at what IceR posted in reverse.

And the oxygen just facilitates things, but is in no way a catalyst. So now I'm reading about glucagon, adrenaline and of course our not so good friend insulin.

Bleh, I think I will need to set aside a bit more time if I'm going to grasp this process from start to finish. And obviously there are multiple ways this can be triggered as well. *grumble*

ElPietro
03-25-2003, 02:38 PM
I still need to do mucho reading here, but I "think" I read that taking epehdra can decrease levels of tyrosine that is required in lipolysis, and thus supplementing with it when on EC may be recommended.

Anyone actually supplement with this amino, or have an opinion one way or the other. Not that I'm even sure I can get this or not here in toronto.

ElPietro
03-25-2003, 08:36 PM
:mad::mad: