PDA

View Full Version : cutting loses muscle?



peatr99
03-25-2003, 06:58 PM
can someone explain why a cutting cycle makes you lose muscle? Isn't protein the thing that builds muscle? So if you keep your protein intake up, and you eat less fat and carbs, wouldn't you maintain or build muscle because muscles aren't made of carbs and fat?

I know thats incorrect but i need someone to explain it correctly.

EdgarMex
03-25-2003, 07:02 PM
I'm no expert, but the rest of the guys here will tell you that in order to build muscle you need to eat more calories than you burn. When you're cutting, you are in a caloric defict in order to bern the excess fat. In that process you will lose muscle, how much you lose depends on your diet. If you don't lower you calorie intake too much (the usual formula for cutting is 12 cals per pound of bodyweight) and keep your protein consumption at over 1 gr per pound of bodyweight the muscle loss will be minimum.

I think that about sums it up. Guys, if the above needs to be corrected please let me know

peatr99
03-25-2003, 07:08 PM
well i'm aware of the basic idea, but what is the actual process behind it? not necessarily in a totally medical way, but more detailed into what actually happens. specifically, why do you need fat and carbs to build muscle if its made of protein. thanks.

EdgarMex
03-25-2003, 07:15 PM
I read this stuff on Power Eating, but I don't have the book with me to give you the explanation. From what I remember, carbs are the preferred source of fuel when excercising, because they can be broken down easier than fat and protein. Protein is important during recovery to repair damaged muscle from the wrokout and to build new muscle. I can't remember exactly the role fat plays into all this.

AJ_11
03-25-2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by peatr99
well i'm aware of the basic idea, but what is the actual process behind it? not necessarily in a totally medical way, but more detailed into what actually happens. specifically, why do you need fat and carbs to build muscle if its made of protein. thanks.

It all comes down to energy. Your body uses what is available and uses that for living and muscle repair. If you are in calorie deficient, there is less energy for you body to use for repair.

Carbos are your bodies main source of energy. Fats can also be used for energy through ketosis. If you limit both fats and carbos in a diet and up you protein, then protein become a source of energy through a process call glucosenisis(sp?)

Your main goal should be to start at your maintenence cals then lower overall caloric intake. Try to limit weighloss to about 1lb a week then you will lose more from fat then from muscle.

Hope that answers your questions.

I am sure there is quite a bit more to this but I hoped that I put it in the simplest way possible.

peatr99
03-25-2003, 07:18 PM
so when cutting, your body starts using your own muscles are fuel? you consume yourself like a cannible?

BCC
03-25-2003, 07:19 PM
Props to you for spelling "loses" correctly! A WBB first! Congratulations! :thumbup:

:cool::cool:

EdgarMex
03-25-2003, 07:20 PM
If you don't consume enough protein to repair the damage that occurs to muscles during your workout they won't be repaired, therefore you lose muscle. Also if your calorie intake is too low the body will start using muscle as fuel, as you said

peatr99
03-25-2003, 07:26 PM
so if you eat like 500 billion grams of protein is it at all possible to gain muscle while cutting fat?

EdgarMex
03-25-2003, 07:32 PM
Most people here will tell you that it is close to impossible to gain mass while losing fat, and also there's a limited amount of protein you body can use. The general guideline when it comes to protein intake is 1 gram per pound of bodyweight, although some people say it is up to 2 grams.

This is why people do bulking and cutting cycles. When you bulk you gain mass and also some fat, when you cut you lose the extra fat and you might lose some muscle. How much fat you gain while bulking and how much muscle you lose while cutting depend on your diet.

Brandon7775643
03-25-2003, 07:38 PM
If you ate 500 billion grams of protein, then you will have taken in more calories than maintenence, and you won't be loosing any fat.

In order to lose body fat, you need to take in fewer calories than your body needs for energy, so that your body uses itself as an energy source (that's exactly why your body stores it in the first place). Once you take in fewer calories than you need, your body will utilitize BOTH muscle and fat for the extra energy it needs.

There are various ways to have your body choose stored fat over stored muscle (dropping only about a pound of week, ketosis, etc.), thus minimizing muscle loss, but there is really no way to completely prevent the loss.

See other threads for ideas on how to minimize muscle loss.

peatr99
03-25-2003, 07:39 PM
what if i ate more than my maintainance level of calories but it was all strictly protein? would the excess protein turn into fat somehow?

aka23
03-25-2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by peatr99
so if you eat like 500 billion grams of protein is it at all possible to gain muscle while cutting fat?

500 billion grams of protein would have roughly 2 trillion calories. You would not lose body fat on a 2 trillion calories per day diet.

It is very possible to gain muscle while losing fat. This is quite common among less experienced exercisers. I think you are most likely to gain muscle while losing fat if you set your calories close to maintenance level, and do both cardio and lifting. I think the amount of protein in your diet has little to do with the process as long as you are consuming a sufficient amount of protein to build muscle (1g/lb is usually more than enough). Note that you are likely to gain muscle or lose fat at a faster rate if you focus on one activitiy or the other.

EdgarMex
03-25-2003, 07:41 PM
It may turn into fat, depending on how much above mainteinance you are eating

peatr99
03-25-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by aka23




It is very possible to gain muscle while losing fat.

yes! thats what i wanted to hear someone say! i want that to be possible so i can do it! a bulking/cutting cycle!

EdgarMex
03-25-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by aka23
Note that you might gain muscle or lose fat at a faster rate if you focused on one activitiy or the other.

Did you see this part too?

Anyway, good luck with your goals, and let us know how you do.

aka23
03-25-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by peatr99
what if i ate more than my maintainance level of calories but it was all strictly protein? would the excess protein turn into fat somehow?

Excess protein that is not used for synthesis, repair, ... usually gets converted to glucose or fatty acids in the liver. This glucose may be used as fuel, stored as fat, ... like glucose from carbs. The nitrogen in the protein gets filtered through the kidneys and excreted in urine. Any macronutrient that is consumed in excessive amounts may be converted to fat.

peatr99
03-25-2003, 07:56 PM
reason i'm asking is just for general knowledge mainly, but also i want to have a better body and was seeing how possible it would be in a short amount of time. I need to bulk up more and then cut i guess.

Ironman8
03-25-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by peatr99
what if i ate more than my maintainance level of calories but it was all strictly protein? would the excess protein turn into fat somehow?

Protein equals 4 grams of calories. If you are eating alot of protein, it would probably exceed 3,000 calories and you will gain fat.

aidano
03-25-2003, 11:58 PM
4 grams of calories?

BCC
03-26-2003, 12:19 AM
I think he meant a gram of protein is equal to 4 calories.

Ironman8
03-26-2003, 07:24 AM
Heh, that's what I meant.

restless
03-26-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by AJ_11




Carbos are your bodies main source of energy. Fats can also be used for energy through ketosis. If you limit both fats and carbos in a diet and up you protein, then protein become a source of energy through a process call glucosenisis(sp?)



One thing, fat is your bodies main source of energy for most daily normal activities, carbs are essentially used by your brain, liver and muscles during intense brief activities. Glucogenesis is the process were glucose is synthecized from something else (gluco from glucose, genesis from formation/birth).

AJ_11
03-26-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by restless


One thing, fat is your bodies main source of energy for most daily normal activities, carbs are essentially used by your brain, liver and muscles during intense brief activities. Glucogenesis is the process were glucose is synthecized from something else (gluco from glucose, genesis from formation/birth).

Thanks for the info. I apologize for my misinformation.

restless
03-26-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by AJ_11


Thanks for the info. I apologize for my misinformation.

No problem. :)

Ironman8
03-26-2003, 10:34 PM
Since carbs are used by your brain, is that why I get light-headed when I think when I'm hungry?

bradley
03-27-2003, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Ironman8
Since carbs are used by your brain, is that why I get light-headed when I think when I'm hungry?

I do know that when starting a ketogenic diet some individuals become groggy and sometimes have a hard time concentrating because of the lack of carbs in their diet, but this goes away after about a week.