Rack Lockouts?

[Chris Rodgers]

Today I incorporated these into my chest workout just to get the feel for them. I want touse them to help strengthen my bench. I have a few questions:

1. Should I only do them for singles? I felt lowering the bar down only those few inches would be awkward for my shoulders and joints.

2. I started today at 4 inches from lockout. I plan on doing that for 3-4 workouts, then lowering the pins one notch for 3-4 workouts, etc., etc., until I'm down to where I normally bench. Is this a good idea?

3. Has anyone ever incorporated these into their training and if so did they give you any results?


Thanks

[chris mason]

I have incorporated very heavy partials in my training in the past. The type I did involved only lowering the weight 2-3 inches and going extremely heavy. This type of training made me weaker and smaller. The S.A.I.D. principle comes into effect here. Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demand. In other words, I got stronger on the partial movement, but after 3-4 months of this training when I went back to standard training I was **** poor weak! I had not been training my muscles through anywhere near a full range of motion and therefore my muscles were not being trained thoroughly. I was stupid! I had bought a book called Power Factor training and decided I would give their method a try. I really should have known better!
The only way to maximize muscle mass and strength is through full range training. The type of partial you are discussing is slightly different than what I tried, but I think it will net you the same results. While you are training the partial range of movement, your body will not maintain your strength in the non trained portions of the movement. Your nervous system will adapt to partial range movements which are very different neurologically than full range movements. The only way to maximize fiber recruitment during training is to practice as full a range of movement as is possible.

[Joe Black]

Originally posted by LATMAN
1. Should I only do them for singles? I felt lowering the bar down only those few inches would be awkward for my shoulders and joints.

I donlt see why you should just do them for singles... I have sued them brefore and worked in and around the 6 rep range and never felt any awkwardness, but am not sure of any problems with joints



2. I started today at 4 inches from lockout. I plan on doing that for 3-4 workouts, then lowering the pins one notch for 3-4 workouts, etc., etc., until I'm down to where I normally bench. Is this a good idea?

Sounds good... I ahve read about them being usefull for sticking points in a certain part of an exercise. I.e if you have problems with the lower part of your bench you could work on that with the rack for a few weeks and then once you feel you have progressed, try back on regualr and it should be up... I didn't carry them throughout long enough for me to actually test things out.



3. Has anyone ever incorporated these into their training and if so did they give you any results?

LOL, as I said above I did not carry them out lon enough to evaluate the results... Although when i tried them I was very sore the next day.. Maybe it was just the change...

[chris mason]

Hulk, muscle soreness is not a necessary component of growth. What we call muscle soreness is actually not soreness in the muscles at all. Muscles don't have the type of nerves that can produce pain. The pain is probably a result of stress to the surrounding tissues. So, my point is that muscle soreness should not be used as an indicator of a "good" workout.

[Chris Rodgers]

Chris- Just so you know, I do my normal benches and Incline db first, then the lockouts.

[chris mason]

I would tell you that is O.K., but I think that you may be doing too much if you perform your normal workout plus the partials.

[Paul Stagg]

I think partials CAN be effective, in two cases.

One case is to improve a sticking point. If your sticking point is at the top of your bench, then lockouts are a good idea. If it is at the bottom, I'd suggest bottom position benching up to a point just above the sticking point. This work is in addition to a full ROM movement, not in place of it.

A second case is when you reach a point where progression is very difficult, and part of the problem is somewhat mental.

For example, lets say you can squat 225 for 8 reps. You can squat 275 for 2-3, then your brain tells you to quit (due to a lack of confidence). Do your normal worksets, then load 315 on the bar. Set the pins one notch, hole, whatever, down from where the bar is racked, and do 5 reps in this partial ROM. Every week, drop the pins a notch. You'll gain confidence every week with the heavier weight...
Continue to try to progress on your normal squatting, and just add that 5 rep set.

Now, this isn't going to work well for you if you are at your physical limit (as opposed to a mental limit)

[gino]

I incorporated partials into my old powerlifting routine occasionally WITH my regular bench routine.

[chris mason]

Just to clarify, partials are a waste of your time and training energies in my opinion.

[Adam]

If you wanted to increase the strenght in the top of your lift without using partials you could use bands or chains if your gym has them.

[ryuage]

Can someone clue me in, to what this thread is about?

[Maki Riddington]

IMO I would use the is technique for a short period of time.
IE- 2-4 weeks.

Chris mentioned the book Power Factor Training.The book advocates training in your strongest ROM only thereby getting better results.But there are several Cons.

If you have acess to chains I would go with that training method over lock outs.

[Chris Rodgers]

Originally posted by ryuage
Can someone clue me in, to what this thread is about?


This thread is about a technique, mainly used by powerlifters, in which you set the pins of a power rack about 4 inches(or whatever the desired amount is) away from lockout. Then you perform the exercise, in this case benches, by just doing the last 4 inches of the lift. It allows you to use much more weight then if you used full ROM and will hopefully allow the lifter to increase his strength on the particular lift. Does that make sense?


Btw, thanks to those who answered, I'm going to give them a fair shot and see what happens.

[ryuage]

I dunno, seems like cheatin.. I know a guy at my gym who does that like ALL the time, but see him with the same weight every week

[Chris Rodgers]

I'm not doing them to look like I'm benching more, I'm doing them so I will be able to bench more with a full ROM. I'm not doing them for an ego boost, I'm doing them to help me in my quest to get stronger. It is just a technique like supersets, rest-pause, drop sets, forced reps, etc. I'm trying something new, that's all.

[beercan]

I've found benefits in doing negatives, I've never tried partials.

I'm not sure if the positive results were anything more than what Paul was saying....helped me through plateaus though, WOAD.

[gino]

Thanks for clarifying Chris.

Partial reps are also good for overloading the tendons with weights that would not normally be supported by them. Remember, tendons can be strengthened, too.

Now, time for ME to clarify. I'm not a big advocate of partial reps, nor would I suggest doing them for an extended period of time. I do however believe that they can benefit powerlifters when performed properly. I tried them during my competing days and they helped me. Read all you want in books, but personal experience is the most reliable source of information.

[Albert]

Partial reps are acceptable for building power, in that they allow you to become accustomed to the stabilization and sensation of very heavy poundage, but to actually build the muscle, you need to work all of its fibers thoroughly, as well as those of ancillary muscles. These must be activated by applying stress over the full extension and contraction of the muscle.

Negative reps with assist in the ascent is probably a better tactic than partials to enable you to become accustomed to the heavy poundage while still working a full ROM----remember, you are a bodybuilder, not a power lifter, so muscle growth is every bit, if not more important than building power. Believe me Brother, I'm all about the POUNDAGE, but look at it this way, you only have a few hours a week of productive time in the gym (beyond that it becomes counterproductive), why waste it with stuff not designed for optimizing muscle growth. This game is about progressive muscle overload and development, not weight adaptation/accustomization.

Latman, you strike me as intelligent and determined so I know you'll take this the right way. I read your bench #'s in an earlier post so I have an idea where you are, please forget about partials until you putting the fourth or fifth plate on each side for your bench or are entering a BP competition. You have a long ways to go with your bench & chest, don't F with your ROM, experiment with Reps/Sets/exercises, but not the F'n ROM---that is critical to going anywhere with this movement and for your chest development. Believe me the basics will take you a lot further and a lot faster than these "strategic shortcuts". Here's your answer: Progressive Muscle Overload-----Do it(the whole range), Do it heavier, repeat.

[Paul Stagg]

Some of us might be powerlifters.

For a pure bodybuilder, I wouldn't suggest partials at all. I'd suggest you spend that time tanning or something.

[chris mason]

Gino, you seem very sensitive lately. You will notice I said this is MY OPINION, you are welcome to not agree, no need to get in a huff. I have experience in powerlifting, I have benched over 400 lbs, squatted 600 lbs, and deadlifted 600 lbs. I think those are respectable enough figures to allow my opinion to be backed with some real world experience. Now, you state that tendons can be strengthened. Tendons can be thickened which will make them less likely to tear upon bearing high stress levels. Tendons, however, have no contractile components so they offer no help in lifting weight. The reason you need to thicken the tendons (which will happen with no special training through weightlifting) is so that as you get stronger you do not tear them. The only time that tendon strength will not keep up with strength in a normal trainee is if that trainee is taking anabolic steroids. It is an absolute fact that the best method of increasing muscular size and strength is to train the muscles through a full range of motion if possible. I agree with Albert that you only have limited time and resources (bodily) so why not use them wisely.

[gino]

"Thanks for clarifying Chris" qualifies as getting in a huff? Ok then, my bad, I'll stay calm next time.

I just found it funny that you found the need to "clarify."

And yes, I am very sensitive. I have recently got in touch with my inner child.

Have partials ever hurt your training? Helped it? Didn't think so. Having USED partials is having experience with them. Lifting big weights doesn't mean you have experience with partials.

BTW, out of curiosity, what weight were you at and how old were you when you posted those lifts? If you were near my age or weight when I did, I wonder why you never considered competing. Did you? Just curious.

[chris mason]

I competed in bodybuilding, not powerlifting. I was 20-22 years old and in college. I did consider competing, but since I was 235-240 lbs at 5' 11" I figured that I needed to be quite a bit stronger to win. I always enjoyed being big and strong. I wanted to look pretty good and be able to lift a lot of weight. I always identified more with bodybuilding than powerlifting when I was younger. I did use partials in my training and found them to be of no benefit to me. I'll tell you something else, when I was younger Darren Lannaghan trained at a couple of the same gyms that I did in Phoenix. He has had his picture in some mags and books and was/is the manager of Gold's in Venice Beach. He was always convinced I was taking sh-t even when I wasn't because I was very strong. My point is that I have been there and done that and I am not some squid professor who weighs 110 lbs and is trying to tell people how to train. I would like to think that I am that squid's intellectual equal and physical superior. I pratice what I preach and am the better for it. The difference between what I say and many others on these sites is that I give advice that I know is true based on reading, observing, and real life practice. I may not always be right, but you can bet your ass that if you follow my advice you will be right a lot more than you will be wrong! Wooooooooo!! Yeah!!!

[Chris Rodgers]

Originally posted by Paul Stagg
Some of us might be powerlifters.

For a pure bodybuilder, I wouldn't suggest partials at all. I'd suggest you spend that time tanning or something.


lol

I consider myself to be a power-bodybuilder. I want to be strong, but just like I've heard you say Paul "I want to look good naked!"


Albert, thanks for the input and I didn't take it the wrong way. I am pretty stubborn, I'm going to give them a go anyway. If I get nothing out of them then you guys can tell me "I told you so." Also, I don't think many of the people in this forum are loading that 4th or 5th plate on before laying down to bench.

[Paul Stagg]

Most people are not what I would call bodybuilders.

Bodybuilders lift ONLY to look good on stage. Strength is a means to an end, and is not the primary goal other than to help improve the physique.

We are ALL lifters.

[gino]

That's pretty heavy at under 6'. The heaviest I ever was was 220 at 5'10" and that even seemed too heavy for my frame. I couldn't imagine 20 more lbs.

Anyways, I do believe you give sound advice in most cases. However, you just have the "Black and White" stance on most things. There is a "grey area" to many things, though. Not everything is yes and no. There are some maybe's when it comes to training and diet. This is a perfect example. Partials worked for me and not for you. I said that they "could be beneficial" and you said that they're a "waste of time." Anyhoo, lets stop wasting time here...and go clash on some other thread. LOL

Amen Paul.

[Albert]

Latman,
You misread my post, I was saying you should wait until you're benching 405 or reach some significant # before applying advanced powerlifting-only techniques to your bench press when you should probably be using that energy and intensity towards overall progressive muscle overload. This isn't arbitrary advice, I spent years dicking around with every "advanced" strategy and busted my ass to croak up 225 on the bench---after YEARS of trying. Once I began putting my effort to overall progressive strength training, my bench took off(as well as everything else). I am looking to get my 4th plate up this summer (put up 370 on Wed.) and then, I MIGHT consider these power lifting techniques to help me get to my next goal of 495 (5 plates). Obviously, someone like Gino could benefit from partials because he's already pushing maximum density, but I was under the impression that you are just getting your bench pressing under way and have not yet broken through any significant barriers yet. Good luck either way.

[Chris Rodgers]

Albert- I had read your post. I was just pointing out that not many of us are benching that amount. I appreciate your comments and like I said you could be one of those who say I told you so, or I could be the one with a stronger bench! ;)