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chris mason
03-30-2003, 03:20 PM
Ok form freaks, have at it. I took a video of me rowing 385 today. I definitely use a back heave in the movement (too much on the 3rd rep), but I challenge anyone to show someone rowing that much weight without doing so.

That being said, this is for those who are interested. I am attaching a picture of me with the same outfit on because I realized after I did the video that my face was not in the picture. I purposely shot low so that you could see my body, but I got a tad too low.

I am streaming the video to Howser now, so hopefully he will be able to get it posted tonight. I am really grateful for his help in posting these.

Oh, and this is for you Callahan!

Rock
03-30-2003, 03:53 PM
this will be great!

Lesnar_Rocks
03-30-2003, 04:31 PM
*Gasp* 385, I can't wait to see this.

chris mason
03-30-2003, 04:44 PM
Ok, it's streamed, just some patience now.

howsertrading
03-30-2003, 05:41 PM
here it is........

http://users.surfanytime.net/~howser/bentrows.mpg

MonStar
03-30-2003, 05:45 PM
AWESOME strength chris! :thumbup::thumbup:

Really impressive, keep up the hard work. I have to be the first to admit that you do rows completely different than I do them. I let the bar come down until my arms are extended, and then pull it back up to my waistline. You do yours basically from the floor, interesting. Regardless, great strength. Body English didnt look bad at all to me.

Mystic Eric
03-30-2003, 05:51 PM
Holy crap. That's huge! The reps looked decent to me. LOL @ the double "smoking gun" pose at the end though!

chris mason
03-30-2003, 05:57 PM
I was fired up, what can I say?

Thanks guys.

Monstar, I am not following you, what do you mean?

Xg74
03-30-2003, 06:12 PM
What I got from what he said is that he doesn't extend it to the ground (or maybe as close) but only until his arms are fully extended, then back to his waist. I do the same, with much less weight. Damn fine lifting, form was great, using an upper-back heave still develops the upper-back, but your form is still damn fine. :thumbup: ;)

Isaac Wilkins
03-30-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by chris mason
I was fired up, what can I say?

Thanks guys.

Monstar, I am not following you, what do you mean?


Nice strength, Chris!

I think I understand what Monstar means: At the bottom of your movement, you lower it a great deal more than most people I've seen. I tend to maintain a slightly more upright stance. The bar doesn't go much lower than my knees. Yours starts out almost as a SLDL. Part of it is controlling the weight that you're doing, I'm sure.

David
03-30-2003, 06:20 PM
HOLY MACRO!!

Very impressive, Chris! http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies3/icon_super.gif

Keep up the good work, now let's see that deadlift and bench press video!:D

chris mason
03-30-2003, 06:21 PM
Right, I concur with your ideas about what Monstar is saying. I've actually done rows both ways. I have done them using the Yates style, but I think you are standing up too much in that position, kinda makes the movement more of a shrug. I have always considered the low body bend to be proper form for bents. I go by pictures of Arnold etc. that I have seen performing the movement. They would often do them standing on a platform to allow for even more of a lean.

Thanks for the compliments Xg and Borris.

Isaac Wilkins
03-30-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by chris mason
Right, I concur with your ideas about what Monstar is saying. I've actually done rows both ways. I have done them using the Yates style, but I think you are standing up too much in that position, kinda makes the movement more of a shrug. I have always considered the low body bend to be proper form for bents. I go by pictures of Arnold etc. that I have seen performing the movement. They would often do them standing on a platform to allow for even more of a lean.

Thanks for the compliments Xg and Borris.

I think it comes down to anatomy. I know what you mean. I tend to be standing a little straighter, and I pound my entire back, with very little trap action. When I lean way over, as you do, I tend to feel too much arms. One of my training partners feels the opposite, when standing up, rows become more of a glorified shrug for him, so he leans way down.

Scooby-Doo
03-30-2003, 06:48 PM
Very impressive! You sure have alot more body play then I do. I'm always tempted, but I try to keep the form tighter. Anyways, Nice Job!! :thumbup:

Ironman8
03-30-2003, 06:54 PM
Damn my 56k!! Can't wait to see this, though.

WeakSauceAsian
03-30-2003, 11:16 PM
Man you are a frickin' monster Mason.

Vido
03-30-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by chris mason
Ok form freaks, have at it. I took a video of me rowing 385 today. I definitely use a back heave in the movement (too much on the 3rd rep), but I challenge anyone to show someone rowing that much weight without doing so.



Mason, that's an impressive amount of weight, and I'll agree that to lift that much one has to put some english in their movement. However, ego aside, wouldn't it be better to use far less weight and keep the form more strict? I'm not really concerned with the amount of english you use to get the weight up, but it's just such a quick motion. The TUT is very minimal, and I can't help but think that a better contraction is going to do a better job of hitting the back.

Obviously your back is bigger than mine, and you are far stronger than me. I just think that you are giving the wrong picture to some of the members of the board that are newer to the iron game by promoting sloppy form.

Black_Curtain
03-31-2003, 06:19 AM
Amazing! Why not video a supported row set too? form just can't be sloppy with those and you are using huge amount of weight there too...

MonStar
03-31-2003, 06:44 AM
I agree with Black__Curtain, to really show your back strength chris you should post a video of an exercise like supported rows, where you cannot use much body English.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Vido


Mason, that's an impressive amount of weight, and I'll agree that to lift that much one has to put some english in their movement. However, ego aside, wouldn't it be better to use far less weight and keep the form more strict? I'm not really concerned with the amount of english you use to get the weight up, but it's just such a quick motion. The TUT is very minimal, and I can't help but think that a better contraction is going to do a better job of hitting the back.

Obviously your back is bigger than mine, and you are far stronger than me. I just think that you are giving the wrong picture to some of the members of the board that are newer to the iron game by promoting sloppy form.


Well, question, have you seen Ronnie Coleman's video? There is a clip of him performing rows with the same TUT. How about pumping iron, Arnold is doing t-bars with as much, or more swing than I (and the same TUT). How many professional bodybuilders/strongmen have you seen train? I have seen quite a few. In actuality, I think I am doing quite the opposite of what you suggested. I am showing the people on this site how real strongmen train with heavy weights. That is just the way it is. I think one thing that some of you who get nutty about form don't realize is that training a bit loosely with free weights will make you stronger overall (in many cases). You see, it is the nature of free weights and sticking points. Due to the nature of barbells, and multiple joint movements, the resistance curve can vary dramatically during a movement, and the "sticking point" in a movement can cause failure long before the involved muscles are thoroughly exhausted. That is why "cheating" can be a good thing. One more point, I can still use a lot of weight with very good form, more than those who have a hard time with my form. Why is that? Well, I think it has something to do with the way I train.

MonStar
03-31-2003, 07:00 AM
Some good points chris, but I still think you should get up some support rowing pics. If I am not mistaken you reecently hit 400 lbs. on that exercise. just in plates. Extremely impressive, and I for one would love to see that.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 07:12 AM
I will, and I don't think anyone can bitch about the form there.

the doc
03-31-2003, 07:16 AM
i think that is really good form chris and i agree with what you said.

LMAO at your post lift celebrations :D

Chris did you recently start the bent over rows again? I thought you were doing some type of chest supported row. You prefer one over the other?

BennettBoy
03-31-2003, 07:28 AM
Wow, very impressive. And I love the Back Lat spread and the "in your face" deal at the end. :D

WillKuenzel
03-31-2003, 07:50 AM
Nice set of rows Chris. I tend to thing along the same lines as you I think as far as weight goes. I can't say that all my lifts are super strict but when lifting I feel the heavier weight the better (of course to a certain degree). I think compound lifts are more along those lines. Compound movements are just that and not necessarily isolation for one particular muscle. That being said, form should still be kept in check and it looks like you do just that. Nice job!

Reinier
03-31-2003, 07:59 AM
That does not even resemble what i thought was a row. Strong nonetheless

Maki Riddington
03-31-2003, 09:13 AM
Well done.

As for form, I believe once form is engrained into a trainee then he/she can start to deviate from it. It's sorta like driving, you follow the rules when you're learning and then you develope your own style as you become more experienced and have earned your license.

Manveet
03-31-2003, 09:17 AM
Great work Chris, lol at the celebration, good stuff.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by the doc
i think that is really good form chris and i agree with what you said.

LMAO at your post lift celebrations :D

Chris did you recently start the bent over rows again? I thought you were doing some type of chest supported row. You prefer one over the other?


Yeah, I have been performing support rows, and will continue to do so. I don't really care for the bent rows, but I decided to do them because others on this site do them and I wanted to show what I can do.

I prefer the support rows, although I will probably start performing the bent rows more often.

Lesnar_Rocks
03-31-2003, 09:33 AM
Holy Flying Monkey Dung!!! That's crazy....Very Impressive

chris mason
03-31-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Well done.

As for form, I believe once form is engrained into a trainee then he/she can start to deviate from it. It's sorta like driving, you follow the rules when you're learning and then you develope your own style as you become more experienced and have earned your license.


You know what, that is a real good point. I teach newbies perfect form.

ask
03-31-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by chris mason



Well, question, have you seen Ronnie Coleman's video? There is a clip of him performing rows with the same TUT. How about pumping iron, Arnold is doing t-bars with as much, or more swing than I (and the same TUT). How many professional bodybuilders/strongmen have you seen train? I have seen quite a few. In actuality, I think I am doing quite the opposite of what you suggested. I am showing the people on this site how real strongmen train with heavy weights. That is just the way it is. I think one thing that some of you who get nutty about form don't realize is that training a bit loosely with free weights will make you stronger overall (in many cases). You see, it is the nature of free weights and sticking points. Due to the nature of barbells, and multiple joint movements, the resistance curve can vary dramatically during a movement, and the "sticking point" in a movement can cause failure long before the involved muscles are thoroughly exhausted. That is why "cheating" can be a good thing. One more point, I can still use a lot of weight with very good form, more than those who have a hard time with my form. Why is that? Well, I think it has something to do with the way I train.

Chris, true, probably because of Coleman's powerlifting background - but Dorian, on the other hand, used form so strict it's ridiculous. I've seen him squat (this was when he no longer exploded in the positive), and it took dude about six seconds till his ass touched the floor. It hurts to even watch that.

That resistance curve thing is on point. Peeps don't realise this.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 11:28 AM
With ya, but I have also seen Yates train (not in person) and his form was not exactly what most people here would consider perfect on rows and such. Injuries have a way of making us train harder, I am sure of which occured in the case of Dorian squatting.

Bam Bam
03-31-2003, 11:39 AM
damn i only get a little box :(


anyway how are these compared to the plate loaded back rows where you lay on a bench and pull the weight to you??

chris mason
03-31-2003, 12:10 PM
In what way Bam?

Silverback
03-31-2003, 12:32 PM
Captain Planet!!

I cant believe the form doubters! thats was awsome man

*pats Chris on back*

Whats next? 400lbs?

B-R

ps the lat spread and celebration brought a smile to my face :)

Relentless
03-31-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by chris mason
Oh, and this is for you Callahan!

I hope you didn't mean the peace sign you were making in the .jpg . . . . I'm a hawk, not a dove, baby!

;)

Seriously though, thanks! Definitely gave me both insight and inspiration. I reckon I'll stick with supported iso-lateral rows a/la Belial for a bit yet but when I get bored of 'em I'll be moving to bentover rows.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 01:41 PM
No worries man, you asked for it!

Thanks to everyone else as well.

David
03-31-2003, 01:44 PM
Yeah, so did you read my post about deadlift and/or bench press video??

What's next?

Relentless
03-31-2003, 01:45 PM
if you're taking requests, a side-view, near-max deadlift video would be instructive.

also, some heavy good mornings might be useful


heavy DB arnold press would also be fun to see, just to watch someone press up weight in my fave exercise that truly dwarfs the puny 75-80 pounds that I can manage

Bam Bam
03-31-2003, 01:45 PM
chris i mean how much do you row like that??

i wish i could see this vid im sure its as good as the others

chris mason
03-31-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Callahan
if you're taking requests, a side-view, near-max deadlift video would be instructive.

also, some heavy good mornings might be useful


heavy DB arnold press would also be fun to see, just to watch someone press up weight in my fave exercise that truly dwarfs the puny 75-80 pounds that I can manage


Let's see, I don't really do good mornings, so those are out. The Arnold presses would be tough because of my dumbbells and shoulders, but I might give them a go.

Now, the deadlift video I am definitely going to do. That will be the next one in a week or two.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Bam Bam
chris i mean how much do you row like that??

i wish i could see this vid im sure its as good as the others

Why can't you see it?

Anyway, the title says it, 385 lbs x 3.

ElPietro
03-31-2003, 04:01 PM
I've never done this exercise before, but I can see what you mean by strict form versus body english. It seems like your legs and spinal erectors are doing a lot of work off the bottom to build up momentum though. So I guess this is the part where you are saying cheating is good, and I guess I'd tend to agree.

But I'm wondering if that sorta makes it a different exercise at that point. Sorta like saying a push press is a standing military press, etc.

WeakSauceAsian
03-31-2003, 06:05 PM
My question is the same as ElPietro's.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 06:51 PM
Geez, who knows? It is a row like any big guy I have ever seen row. Show me anyone bent rowing (with the body at a 90 degree angle) more than 300 lbs with no movement of the lower back etc., and I will show you the biggest freak you have ever seen. Is the movement somewhat akin to a push press, yes, I think that is a good analogy.

Posting these videos definitely tells me you can't please all of the people all of the time, but I suppose I already knew that.

Here is a valid point for all of you who question the form. Let's see yours, better yet, let's see yours with the same weight;) . Not gonna happen is it?

How about this, next time I do them I will video myself using no lower back or leg movement whatsoever. I will still use more weight than anyone on this site can. I'll do the same darn thing with my curls, heck, I perform my curls with my shoulders and back against a wall. LOL, will that make you happy?

chris mason
03-31-2003, 06:52 PM
One more thing, I don't think cheating is good on every exercise, and I don't. I also don't think that uncontrolled cheating is good.

ElPietro
03-31-2003, 06:57 PM
Chris it was just a simple question. It seems that every time you post now, all you are saying is "can you lift as much as me?" Or "i'm stronger than you." I'm not sure why you feel the need to do this, but it's starting to sound kinda bad. I'm not sure what saying it proves other than you can lift a lot of weight. It doesn't really help anyone, but it's putting you in somewhat of a bad light in my opinion. I don't know why you think every comment or question is a personal attack, since with my comment it certainly wasn't.

My whole point was exactly what you agreed with, regarding the push press. I know I wouldn't call a push press a military press, so then if you agree, how do you call what you did a BB row? I guess it's not quite the same, since there isn't an equivalent to what you were doing there, so I guess it could now be called a Mason Row if you want. ;)

WeakSauceAsian
03-31-2003, 07:10 PM
Chris... I have already said you were a monster. A MONSTER. That should be enough man.

Now I'm just asking like Pietro is asking, how's it all work since there's a lot of force coming from your legs, etc. You've got a huge back now explain how rowing 385 like that is a really good back workout if a ton of it looks like you're "jerking" it up.

Not even a chance at trying to detract from your strength man, if I wanted to disrespect you, I would have already.

Isaac Wilkins
03-31-2003, 07:19 PM
I'll back Chris up here, actually.

I don't row close to his weight, but I'm soon to be at 275 for 8 or 9, so I am a somewhat accomplished rower.

When I started rowing, I was very strict. After a while, I couldn't manage to hit my back any more. I started incorporating a little movement and upping the weight. Now, when I row, my lats are absolutely crushed. My rhomboids get their share as well. The only time I feel anything in my lower back is when I haven't warmed up enough and it feels tweaky on my first set. I don't feel it in my traps, despite being more upright than Chris (I don't drop as low). Also, since I started getting a little movement, my arm involvement seems to be much less.

In the past six months I've probably had as much back growth as I've had in the three years of haphazard lifting before that. I attribute it to much heavier rowing and much heavier close-grip pulldowns (well over my bodyweight).

edit: I'll add some more. I realize that you guys aren't ragging on him for "cheating" or whatever, so I'm not jumping to his defence, so to speak. I'm merely agreeing with his point of view.

I personally use a lot less legs than he does, but given my starting position, I don't think the legs are as useful, anyway.

As far as how the back grows, I think it's simply a matter of overload. It's like a cheat curl. Jerking a little bit allows you to go so much heavier than you would be able to with ideal form that the muscles are forced to adapt. Chris brings up the point of how often the really huge guys seem to have the loosest form. Like he says, I'll bet they didn't start that way. Probably, most of them could show you better form than smaller, form concious gym rats if they wanted to. However, they've reached the point where it doesn't work for them anymore. They can hit a broader range of muscles with heavier weight across the board.

Kind of like the multi-joint vs. isolation arguement for mass.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 07:19 PM
You shouldn't be so Peitro-centric and assume my statements were pointed directly at you. For the most part they were not. As you noted, I agreed with your point and I fully realized you were expressing your opinion in a nice manner.

My tirade was directed at others (Weaksauce for one) who have made statements about me in other threads as well as this one.

Now as to me asking others if they lift as much as me etc. in nearly every post, wtf are you talking about? I rarely ever compare myself to anyone. I do think some people are not upfront about their lifts, and I call them on it, but that is all.

If you were me, given similar circumstances, with certain people, who most likely lift nowhere near what you do, questioning your form (which you considered to be reasonably good), would you not get a bit frustrated? I am sure you would.

As to my being perceived in a bad light etc., quite frankly, I am not overly concerned about it. Sure, I would like to be thought well of and appreciated here, but does that mean I should compromise my principals just to appease certain people? I say no. One thing about me, I am real. What you see here is what I am. I almost never put on airs, I just am what I am. I don't think certain people understand that about me. Other than to people I think are lying, I try to be supportive and helpful to anyone who asks for it.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by WeakSauceAsian
Chris... I have already said you were a monster. A MONSTER. That should be enough man.

Now I'm just asking like Pietro is asking, how's it all work since there's a lot of force coming from your legs, etc. You've got a huge back now explain how rowing 385 like that is a really good back workout if a ton of it looks like you're "jerking" it up.

Not even a chance at trying to detract from your strength man, if I wanted to disrespect you, I would have already.

Fair enough man, but you can hardly blame me for misunderstanding your statements, no?

chris mason
03-31-2003, 07:28 PM
As to an explanation, I already gave one earlier in the thread. Due to varying leverages throughout compound movements (a consequence of multiple joints being involved) and the direct line pull of gravity vs. the rotary movement of barbells during most exercises, I feel that "cheating" past the sticking point allows for the use of greater weights which will place more stress on the involved musculature during the balance of the movement. Now, this cheating must be carefully controlled to maximize this effect (which I fail to do from time to time), else the weight ends up being "thrown" too much and the muscles perform limited work (as in the delts during the "jerk" phase of an Olympic lift).

ElPietro
03-31-2003, 07:28 PM
All I'm saying is you put up the video, so obviously there is no BS in what you did. Which is cool, and probably helps me understand the lift a bit better. But also, it illustrates my feelings on the fact that this is the net, and everyone could be honest with their lifts, but out of 1,000 people there will be 1,000 different forms, ROMS, TUT, etc, etc. So unless a video such as yours is posted, it is hard to make comparisons.

I mean, like I said, I've never BB rowed before, but if I did it strict, and then did it the same way as you did in the video, I'm relatively certain that there would be a pretty significant increase in weight. So think of countless people who have their form somewhere between perfectly strict, and what you have, or even more body english, that really would skew the numbers. So videos such as yours are great, for everyone to measure their form against.

As for the bad light, I just meant that you seem to be taking a very defensive stance, and I don't know why you are doing so. I thought you were addressing my point, as it fit exactly to my question. And saying something like, "let's see you lift that much," doesn't really help anyone. Maybe I will someday, maybe with some training I could sooner or later, but I was just asking some form questions is all.

I mean, if you are going to post videos I think that's great, and when your form isn't strict, you will have to expect people to ask about it. Everyone trains differently.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 07:35 PM
Listen, I realize by posting pictures and videos I open myself up for scrutiny. That is acceptable to me. I also think that you, or anyone, as a critic should understand in much the same manner that I might wish to defend my position when questioned.

You are quite right, if you lifted the weight completely strictly vs. the manner in which I perform the movement, you would lift more weight.

I suppose I look at it in much the same manner I did when Supirman (someone I had openly questioned) posted his squat video. More than one person bitched that he didn't get low enough. I pointed out that I thought he went deep enough and those who questioned him might wish to post a video squatting the same weight to the same "shallow" depth. Some people always feel the need to detract from the accomplishments of others. Now, before anyone points the finger back at me, I don't do that. I only detract when I think the claim is untrue. When I believe it, or when presented with proof I consider acceptable, I always am complimentary.

Narcissus
03-31-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by chris mason
How about this, next time I do them I will video myself using no lower back or leg movement whatsoever. I will still use more weight than anyone on this site can.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... whew, that one was good :thumbup:

i'll go ahead and post your response for you:

mason says: you jack. post a video of yourself. let's see it. you won't because you are not real, you jack!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

chris mason
03-31-2003, 07:48 PM
Well, you called it, you got my repsonse. So do it. If you don't, shut you mouth forever. It is time for you to put up or shut up. Make sure Alex is in the video with you (as I can recognize him). If you don't post a video, keep all remarks as to your lifting abilities strictly to your journal or I will ban you.

Narcissus
03-31-2003, 07:57 PM
let's say i did post a video, and alex was in it, and blew your rows out of the water...wouldnt you still be so insecure in yourself to accuse me of hiring someone to come in and be videotaped? i can definitely see you doing that.

chris mason
03-31-2003, 08:01 PM
I suppose we will just have to see. Regardless, what I said stands.

Narcissus
03-31-2003, 08:19 PM
sure, champ. you're a real winner, son. don't let anyone ever tell you differently, slugger.

Magnus
03-31-2003, 08:41 PM
Narc post the vid! You can get CG to tape it :)

MrWebb78
03-31-2003, 08:44 PM
i hope he never posts a video, shouldnt have to, and he should drag all this on for at least a year or so.

Alex.V
03-31-2003, 08:46 PM
Tomorrow. If anthony gets his camera charged, I'll be at the workout, and a video shall be posted. :)

MrWebb78
03-31-2003, 08:49 PM
where do you gusy workout? local gym or the university? how many of you workout together? i hate going to the gym with more than one partner(workout partner, not domestic partner)

Magnus
03-31-2003, 08:52 PM
Cool. Magnus likes seeing heavy things moved.

Narcissus
03-31-2003, 08:53 PM
mrwebb: i know, i am torn between actually posting a video to shut mason's mouth (though, i am sure his boyfriend would hold a vendetta against me for that), or actually showing that i am what i tout myself to be. we work out at the university's gym. normally, it is only me and anthony (evolu2art) who lift together, and about half the time, jonathan (escape01) lifts with us as well. alex doesn't lift with us. different time, and he does those weird powerlifting exercises.

MrWebb78
03-31-2003, 09:26 PM
i always thought alex was kinda weird. but ya gotta love him

and before that post gets edited....aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahaha

Vido
04-01-2003, 01:06 AM
Ok, first of all Chris, I find it amusing that your response to my original post was that pros use form similar to yours. Well, how many times have you said before that training like the pros isn't going to get you anywhere because not everybody is taking in excessive amounts of gear, eating massive quantities of food, working out for a living, not to mention being blessed with wonderful genetics? Ronnie could look at a barbell and he would grow, so good form or not, he's going to be stressing the muscle enough to induce growth because he has all of the other factors working on his side.

Second of all, why are you so concerned with Narc's lifts? Has it really been so shattering to your ego that someone on this site could actually lift more weight than you?

Third, I agree with ElP in that your responses are coming off as extremely defensive. Every post is something along the lines of "If you don't believe me, let's see your lifts" or "I can outlift you, I'm bigger and stronger". Some people are posing interesting questions and although you supply educated answers to some of these queries, there's also a part of you that is acting very childish over this issue.

Lastly, do you touch the bar to your stomach on those lifts? From the angle of the video it was hard to tell, but it didn't look like you were. Not touching your stomach makes the lift inifinitely easier than if you used a full ROM. To me, that's like doing a quarter squat or bench press. The amount of weight you use has no affect on what constitutes a full ROM. You referred to the Supirman squatting thread and said you'd like to see someone go to his "shallow" depth with that weight. Now in that case, I agree that Supirman is going deep enough on his squats. However, it is as though you are implying that because he uses such heavy weight it is acceptable for him to have a shorter ROM than someone using less weight. A full range of motion is the same whether you are lifting 50 lbs or 500 lbs. If you can't use a full ROM, then I'm sorry, but you can't lift the weight.

It may seem like I'm looking to detract from your lift in any way I can, but the truth of the matter is I do not find it impressive. I couldn't care less how much weight you lift; this is a bodybuilding site, not a powerlifting site. I would be much more impressed if you knocked that weight down to 225 and did some "real reps" (not saying you'd have to go this low to utilize stricter form, but it is showing that the weight used is inconsequential) in order to really "teach newbies perfect form" as you so eloquently put it.

WeakSauceAsian
04-01-2003, 02:22 AM
The PEASANTS ARE RISING!!!!!!

:-/.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 06:15 AM
Vido, actually, what I have said about the professionals and their training has to do with volume and steroid use, not form. I have never stated anything derogatory about their form. Please show me a qoute where I have.

As to eating a lot, I have always advocated it. Of course, 10000 calories per day is way too much, and will result in a fatass. Lately, with the advent of Narcissus and the fact that all of you believe someone could achieve what he claims naturally, I have cautioned that merely eating tons of calories over the years will not make us all champions.

Next, yes, I was touching my stomach, LOL. Good try though.

Weasksauce, it is comments like that, after I apologized to you, that make me say things like I did earlier in this thread. I do appreciate that you consider yourself a peasant.

Vido, actually, this site has quite a few people interested in powerlifting, so your point is invalid beyond your personal opinion. Of course, seeing that many of the best bodybuilders also train in this fashion also makes your point invalid. Which is it, are you are bodybuilder or not?

Lastly, if you could open your mind for a moment, you might see my point in referencing men much larger than myself. With regards to form, which drug use and eating have no effect on, every single man I have ever seen rowing an appreciable weight uses form similar to what I exhibit in that video. If that is the case, then one might assume that there may be some sort of a positive effect from it.


Lastly, yes, when I train someone new to the iron game I emphasize perfect form. I do this for the exact reasons Maki mentioned.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Belial
Tomorrow. If anthony gets his camera charged, I'll be at the workout, and a video shall be posted. :)



I hope it is. If it is, and you are in the video Alex, then I will 100% state that I believe Narc exists and his lifts are legit. It will not change my mind about one thing, and if anyone ever carefully read what I have stated it will come of no surprise. I will not believe that he got to 330 lbs with a 38" waist naturally. I will never be convinced of that. Like I said, I have many times stated that if his stats are true, he was not clean.

Of course, the above is a moot point because I know that there will be no video posted today.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by Vido
Second of all, why are you so concerned with Narc's lifts? Has it really been so shattering to your ego that someone on this site could actually lift more weight than you?




For the last time, and I mean this, I have no problem believing someone can lift more than me. I know there are hundreds of thousands who can. My ego plays no part in this. I have always stated that if Narc's claims are real he is not clean. That has always been the crux of my position, I don't believe a guy with his claimed stats can be natural. Do you think he is natural and bigger than Ronnie Coleman? In the end, I also have a hard time believing he is real, not just a prank used to annoy me and certain others on this board. However, he may very well be real, he may be much bigger and stronger than me, but if he is what he claims, he is nothing near natural (and has not been for a very long time). My real problem with Narc has always been that I feel in one way or another, he is lying.

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 10:26 AM
i was just lying in bed, then i arose.

Reinier
04-01-2003, 10:33 AM
I have to say i agree with chris. He claims to weigh what, 700 lbs and be lean? maybe he is man, but then hes not natty in the least

GonePostal
04-01-2003, 10:36 AM
He said he is lying!

David
04-01-2003, 10:43 AM
Yeah...but he could be lying about lying!

Ever think about that? ;)

WeakSauceAsian
04-01-2003, 10:48 AM
What's wrong with being a peasant?

Arain
04-01-2003, 11:01 AM
What the hell is wrong with you people. Have you watched the video? that's some good rowing. I wasn't sure if he touched his stomach or not because it makes a big difference but he says he did so i believe him, either way it's close. chris does seem to go lower down kinda like a stiff legged deadlift but it's very slow like a stretch out. look at the bend of his knees, he doesn't even really use his legs. Sure there's a little help but if you wanted some super strict rows he can still do way over 300. watch closely his back is nice and straight and has a pretty low angle to the ground. Elp you said you never BB rowed before, crap man you gotta at least give it a try before you comment on the guys form. tuttut it's probably not gonna be as easy and strict as you think it is. curls were pretty damn ace also. the 185x3 he wasn't jerking it up. some slight lean that i'm sure every single one of us have on curls with heavy weight. btw, i'd like to see narc's video also :D

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by chris mason
Do you think he is natural and bigger than Ronnie Coleman?

i never said i was bigger than ronnie coleman, or bill kazmeier, or victor richards. just because i may weigh a little more than ronnie in the offseason does NOT mean that i am bigger than him (AT ALL). kaz's waist may be the same size as mine, and his chest measurement the same, but his thighs and arms are much bigger than mine are. also, i believe his skeletal structure is much different than mine, as evidenced by his LEAN 38" waist, and my fatty 38" waist. i have a very narrow mid-section, and a very large upper rib cage, so that is great advantage to me. i know several people at 5'7 who weigh more than 215 - does that mean they are bigger than shawn ray? absolutely not.

to quote alex, "get your head out of your ass, wipe the sh!t off your face, and open your eyes", douchebag.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 11:12 AM
No worries man, I am not going to ban you until you post your video today, no matter how hard you try. Nor will any other mods. You see, I don't believe you will, thus, even though you wish to get banned in order to save face, you won't.


Now, you claim a 2" smaller waist than Kaz at 3" less in height. If his thighs (very large muscles) and arms were much bigger than yours, and he was 3" taller, then he would considerably outweigh you. That is a matter of physiological fact, not heresay. Your bodyfat could not be very high with a 38" waist at 330 lbs, that would be impossible. No matter how hard you keep trying, your b.s. just gets more and more apparent.

As to Ronnie, he competes somewhere in the 260s (I believe) at something just under 6' in height. So, again, you claim to currently be 340 ish with a 38" ish waist. If that were true, you would cut up somewhere in the 260s.

Make up your mind, you either are those stats or you are not.

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 11:16 AM
i hope anthony charged his camera.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 11:18 AM
What do you mean you hope??? Go to his ****ing house and do it yourself. That built-in excuse in the lamest one I have ever heard.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Narcissus
i hope anthony charged his camera.

Oh, and answer the question. How is it that you can be 3" shorter, have a 2" smaller waist, and MUCH (in your own words) smaller arms and legs than Kaz yet still weigh just as much?

Bam Bam
04-01-2003, 11:20 AM
no no no chris ive never done this exercise that your doing i am wondering how close it is to the plate loaded one where you lay on a bench and row the weight upwards towards you


i dont know why i can access it i did the squat and curl??

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by chris mason
What do you mean you hope??? Go to his ****ing house and do it yourself. That built-in excuse in the lamest one I have ever heard.

you need to calm down, son. i am still considering even making the video if it is charged.

in answer to the question, from his site, i believe it said he had 23" arms and 33" thighs. that would make me 2 inches smaller on both measurements. he is also very lean, and i am not. my back is much larger than his (from the pictures i have seen), and my glutes and hams are bigger (again, judging from the pictures). aside from those reasons, i just do not know.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 11:27 AM
You don't know because it is impossible, lol.


I am sure you are considering making the video, considering whether or not you wish to end your little charade or not.

Isaac Wilkins
04-01-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by chris mason


As to Ronnie, he competes somewhere in the 260s (I believe) at something just under 6' in height. So, again, you claim to currently be 340 ish with a 38" ish waist. If that were true, you would cut up somewhere in the 260s.



Heh. At this point, Ronnie's cut up waist is probably around 38", but he's not a good example for that.

:D


I'm seriously looking forward to the vid. Perhaps you should call Anthony to insure that he charged the camera? I'm sure you know how to get in touch with him.


Whether I believe you or not has no bearing on what I'm going to say next, Narc. This is directed towards the rest of WBB. I live with Division I linemen (as well as other positions). ~300 pounds at 6'3" or 6'4" is a big guy, but they don't look AS huge as people might think. They are huge men, but there's room to spread out. ~300 pounds or more at 6' flat looks huge. Everything is crunched into a wider package.

A lot of people aren't used to being around individuals of that size. I don't think they have an appreciation of how big you are (would be, whatever) at 6'0" and 300-320 pounds. That's part of the reason why Chris is questioning you. He's seen individuals on that scale, and knows how unusual it is.

I'm not hating on either you or Chris. This isn't my issue, and I really don't care all that much. I'm just clarifying a little for the 14 year old kid sitting at home that might be confused by this whole thing.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Bam Bam
no no no chris ive never done this exercise that your doing i am wondering how close it is to the plate loaded one where you lay on a bench and row the weight upwards towards you


i dont know why i can access it i did the squat and curl??

Me neither. Maybe Howser can help you out. It is actually a lot different than the plate loaded version.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 11:31 AM
Hey Borris, maybe you can help him out. Can you explain how he might be 3" shorter, have a 2" smaller waist, smaller arms and legs by 2" (per his own admission), and still weigh as much as Kaz in his prime? He couldn't be that fat with a 38" waist, especially at a muscular 330-340 lbs. How can it be?

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 11:38 AM
borris: i tried calling him. he is in class i think.

mason: do you not understand how skeletal structure plays a part in waist size? melvin anthony, for example, i am sure could get up to 300+ pounds and have a waist probably in the 35's with a "respectable" amount of fat on it.

Isaac Wilkins
04-01-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by chris mason
Hey Borris, maybe you can help him out. Can you explain how he might be 3" shorter, have a 2" smaller waist, smaller arms and legs by 2" (per his own admission), and still weigh as much as Kaz in his prime? He couldn't be that fat with a 38" waist, especially at a muscular 330-340 lbs. How can it be?

I'm trying to think about it.

Very dense bones? Swelled head? ;)



He states that his back is much bigger, but his chest measurements are equal to Kaz. So that's out.

He can pick up some pounds in calves and shoulders.

Where is he measuring the waist? When I measure slightly above the navel I ended up with ~39 inches, prior to my cut. At that point, I could fit in to 35 inch pants (assuming my legs fit) without too much difficulty. If he's using men's PANTS measurement, his above navel waist could be up around 44"-46" inches. If Kaz was measured above the navel at 38", then this could explain a lot.

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 11:43 AM
wow, i did not even consider that borris. although i agree that dense bones and swelled head may give me some pounds here and there, i do think you are right about the waist measurement.

i was going by my pants measurement. and if kaz was going by his navel (which, now that i think about it, would be the better to go by), then this would explain a great deal.

Isaac Wilkins
04-01-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Narcissus
wow, i did not even consider that borris. although i agree that dense bones and swelled head may give me some pounds here and there, i do think you are right about the waist measurement.

i was going by my pants measurement. and if kaz was going by his navel (which, now that i think about it, would be the better to go by), then this would explain a great deal.

Cha-CHING.

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 11:47 AM
before it is asked, i do not know my navel measurement (maybe ½ inch by ½ inch). if i had a tape measurer, i would check right now, but i do not. since this is where i hold the majority of my fat, i think that the 45ish range is probably a good guess, but with the excess bloat i have right now, it may be larger. i am not sure.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 11:52 AM
Lol, a valiant effort to escape there Narc. How about this, I am tight in my 36s right now, and 38s would not be out of the question. I weigh 100 lbs + less than you claim to at the same height. I am not lean, but not a blob either and I have a relatively small bone structure.

In addition, if you wear 38s, your waist around the navel might be 42" or so, still now only 2" bigger than Kaz's. Even with a 2" bigger waist, at 3" less in height, you would weigh less, especially if your legs were smaller. Bone structure can have an effect, and Kaz's is quite large. If your bone structure were smaller than Kaz's, and you weighed the same at 3" less in height with a similar waist, then you are claiming to have massively more muscle on your frame than he did. Muscle weighs more than bone, thus if your bones are smaller (as you are intimating), yet you weigh the same at less height, then you must have more muscle to makeup the difference (again, assuming your waist is close to his--which you state it is).

chris mason
04-01-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Narcissus
before it is asked, i do not know my navel measurement (maybe ½ inch by ½ inch). if i had a tape measurer, i would check right now, but i do not. since this is where i hold the majority of my fat, i think that the 45ish range is probably a good guess, but with the excess bloat i have right now, it may be larger. i am not sure.

Nice try, if that were the case, you would not be wearing 38s (unless of course your gut were hanging massively over your pants). I know this from personal experience.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 12:04 PM
Here is a link to a strongman who in all liklihood really is natural. He is 5'11" with a 47" waist and 350 lbs. Now, if you will look at him as a kid, he was a big boy. Big bones. That is the kind of guy who gets to 300+ at 6' naturally. He was never 180 lbs at 18 years old. He is like my buddy Chuck (albeit much stronger).


http://www.strongerman.com/bio.html

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 12:08 PM
so i went into paint and drew a side-view picture. the bottom of my belly goes out about 2½-3 inches just above where i wear my pants. i added a note at the bottom, so everyone would believe that i did not find the drawing on the internet somewhere and am passing it off as my own.

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/drawing.jpg

so if we assume that the average difference between where i wear my pants and wear my bellybutton is is 2.5", and that my waist and navel are both circular (the first is a valid assumption, the second is conceptually valid), then the radius of my body at my waist is found to be 6.05" (using pi=3.14, and the formula c=2*pi*r). adding 2.5 to 6.05", a new radius (for my bellybutton) is found to be about 8.5". substituting this new value for r into the formula, the circumference at my bellybutton is found to be about 53 inches.

Isaac Wilkins
04-01-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Narcissus
so i went into paint and drew a side-view picture. the bottom of my belly goes out about 2½-3 inches just above where i wear my pants. i added a note at the bottom, so everyone would believe that i did not find the drawing on the internet somewhere and am passing it off as my own.

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/drawing.jpg

so if we assume that the average difference between where i wear my pants and wear my bellybutton is is 2.5", and that my waist and navel are both circular (the first is a valid assumption, the second is conceptually valid), then the radius of my body at my waist is found to be 6.05" (using pi=3.14, and the formula c=2*pi*r). adding 2.5 to 6.05", a new radius (for my bellybutton) is found to be about 8.5". substituting this new value for r into the formula, the circumference at my bellybutton is found to be about 53 inches.

While I respect your math, I think that when you measure you won't find the difference to be that big. That would be a large case of "DoneLap" syndrome.

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 12:15 PM
borris: yes, i agree that the measurement would most likely not be that big, the math was there just to show that in all likelihood, my measurement around my bellybutton is probably significantly different than my waist measurement, due mostly to the way i hold fat.

Magnus
04-01-2003, 12:15 PM
No strongmen are natural. :) :)

Here's the thing about the whole "is Narc legit:" Matt, if you are underestimating your BF% at that weight it changes your claims dramatically. The difference between 330 at 35% BF (guessing you are closer to this) and 20% at 330 is...a good 50 lbs. of LBM. Kind of changes everything from mythical natural bodybuilding god to believable NFL lineman build. Most people tend to drastically underestimate their BF.

World's strongest man is on right now btw...

Isaac Wilkins
04-01-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Narcissus
borris: yes, i agree that the measurement would most likely not be that big, the math was there just to show that in all likelihood, my measurement around my bellybutton is probably significantly different than my waist measurement, due mostly to the way i hold fat.

I hold fat in a similar manner (damn these love handles!). That's why I have a good sized gap in my pant's waist to navel waist.

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 12:17 PM
when i posted my BF%, i believe i made sure to state that i had never had it measured, and it was my guess and the guess of many others.

edit: i am definitely leaner than the nfl linemen i have seen. if the average nfl linemen is near 35%, then i am certainly below that.

Isaac Wilkins
04-01-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Magnus
No strongmen are natural. :) :)

Here's the thing about the whole "is Narc legit:" Matt, if you are underestimating your BF% at that weight it changes your claims dramatically. The difference between 330 at 35% BF (guessing you are closer to this) and 20% at 330 is...a good 50 lbs. of LBM. Kind of changes everything from mythical natural bodybuilding god to believable NFL lineman build. Most people tend to drastically underestimate their BF.

World's strongest man is on right now btw...


Yep. We've gone over that one (different threads), but we can't work with it until it's been tested.

Magnus
04-01-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Narcissus
when i posted my BF%, i believe i made sure to state that i had never had it measured, and it was my guess and the guess of many others.

edit: i am definitely leaner than the nfl linemen i have seen. if the average nfl linemen is near 35%, then i am certainly below that.

OK. Also remember a lot of (all?) NFL lineman aren't natural. But yet they are quite fat :) Can't wait for the vid, although Magnus isn't holding his breath.

Rock
04-01-2003, 01:58 PM
Narcissus, just because Chris Masons doubts you doesnt mean you have to come with personal insults, come on show some respect, the man is a hard working family man and he is older than you, damn, it doesnt make your point more valid because you put on limp bizkit wigger attitude, where is the respect and dignity, Narc I am sure you are a great dude and friendly and whatnot, but acting like this does not make your point stronger.

Slowmo
04-01-2003, 01:59 PM
I don't understand why ppl who boast their lifts and/or bodies are never sure if they want to post pics or vids, like in Narc's case. If there's a long debate you would think they'd absolutely WANT to prove everyone wrong and earn instant respect.

MrWebb78
04-01-2003, 02:05 PM
i dont brag about my lifts, and certainly dont need to post videos of me working out, im sure nobody is dying to see me lift weights. besides, im only competing against myself, its MY goal to go and lift more than I did the previous week. besides i use absolutely NO body english in my lifts, i dont like seeing "momentum lifts", and "cheating", i keep my body perfectly still and move only the muscles that are supposed to be working. oh well, i forgot once again this thread isnt about me.

ask
04-01-2003, 02:06 PM
Damn, this has got out of hand. Cats throwing personal insults out is just...f***ed up. Eazy there.

Hope you guys get the vid in order, though.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 02:38 PM
I am just going to sit back and wait for the video now.

The trench is getting deeper as the story changes once the facts are pointed out (waist going from 38" to who knows?).


Webb, I respect that you use perfect form, can you show us some of that form? I am not asking this to be a smartass either, Iwould just like to see what you consider perfect form.

Sheik
04-01-2003, 02:51 PM
I personally think that Chris's form just fine. There comes a point in everyone's training where you know yourself how to activate/fire the intended muscle groups.

What next.........straps must be a form of cheating too!
Probably accurate...but they also have a very good purpose in this
BB row excercise. to hit the back with more weight than your grip can handle.

Call it cheating if you will.........

I prefer "Advanced Lifting Techniques" :D

Sheik
04-01-2003, 02:53 PM
I don't bb row anything near what Chris does (wish I did), but I have seen guys at my gym do 4 plates for reps!

look damn near the same to me Chris. Great work

Sheik
04-01-2003, 02:55 PM
If Narc is as big as he says he is, I would think he would be doing sets of 10 with the same weight.

Am I right Chris??

MonStar
04-01-2003, 03:19 PM
I agree with Sheik on this one.

I feel that chris's form is perfectly fine. Maybe its not 100% TEXTBOOK but the guy has done enough rows to know what works for him. Same goes for his curls and his overhead presses, etc. The guy is without a doubt very large, and very strong---and using a little body English to row 385 works for him, so be it. I know that I sure as hell couldnt barbell row 385, no matter how much body English I used.

In regards to Narc, I dont think that he is bullsh*tting. Alex (Belial) is a very well respected member of this site. And if he can back up Narc's claims, then I really think they are legit.

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 03:40 PM
rock: first, what exactly is a limp bizkit wigger attitude? second, i only give respect to people who earn it. age, having a family, mean absolutely nothing to me in terms of whether or not someone warrants respect.

slowmo: i do not recall boasting my lifts. i simply stated what i can lift (and in many cases, i do not think it is that much - which is fine for me, i am not a powerlifter). additionally, i am not the original person that boasted my lifts, belial is. he simply posted that he was impressed that i could sumo what i did on my first try doing it. i never said "i lift more than anyone on this site", or that i lift more than anyone for that matter. finally, there are things much more important to me than instantly earning respect (whatever that means) from a bodybuilding message board.

ask: i was not the first to begin the insults, though i have perpetuated it.

mason: the story has not changed. borris pointed out that kaz's measurement was likely made at his navel and not where he wears his pants. i took that into consideration and admitted that therein lies the problem.

sheik: i agree that mason's form is fine. i certainly do not use strict form when i go above 315. also, as to your question as to whether or not i could do sets of 10 with the same weight - last week i did a quadruple drop set from 405, with 12 reps at 405, and then a drop to 315, 225, and 135.

monstar: i agree. for example, ronnie coleman (as was earlier pointed out) does not use strict form for his barbell rows, but can anyone doubt that the form he uses is working for him?

MrWebb78
04-01-2003, 04:08 PM
if i ever have the means of psoting a video of myself i guess i would, but im in the stone age of technology, hell i dont even have a cell phone!

lol anyways, i certainly dont think i use "perfect" form, i just try to not use body english to lift weights. when i say body english, i mainly refer to the guys who can barely hold onto their 70 lb dumbells that use their whole back to launch the weight into the air and try to get under it for what issupposed to be a dumbell curl.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 04:12 PM
Hey Narc, I will take your's and Belial's presence online and no video to mean there isn't one. That's too bad, really.

WeakSauceAsian
04-01-2003, 06:35 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. Mason should change his avatar.

chris mason
04-01-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by WeakSauceAsian
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. Mason should change his avatar.

What are you talking about? I don't have an avatar.

Alex.V
04-01-2003, 06:41 PM
I think he meant your custom title. ;)

Santiago
04-01-2003, 06:50 PM
Chris Mason rocks. If I cared anymore I'd probably be doing the same thing. :p

chris mason
04-01-2003, 07:06 PM
Thanks for the props San.

WeakSauceAsian
04-01-2003, 07:33 PM
"HAHAHAHHAHA MASON SHOULD CHANGE HIS AVATAR."

That's a joke. Obviously. It doesn't disrespect just comments on the nature of things going back and forth.

I just received a private message indicating that I was close to being banned for that comment.

: /. As I said in the private message, I'm arguably least disrespectful of the people who have issues with Chris.

Just trying to make the huge commotion seem lighter hearted - great.

More people then I have tried to tell you to calm down.

MrWebb78
04-01-2003, 07:43 PM
yeah the banning trend is gettin kinda out of hand, its like "if you dont agree with us, youre banned!"

reminds me of the iraqi regime



had to turn this into an iraq thread!

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by chris mason
Hey Narc, I will take your's and Belial's presence online and no video to mean there isn't one. That's too bad, really.

there is a video, as you indicated you had already heard from alex. also, in case you want to change professions from gm car salesman to private investigator - some people have dsl and leave browser windows open.

edit: i edited the above under the advice of a friend.

Maki Riddington
04-01-2003, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by MrWebb78
yeah the banning trend is gettin kinda out of hand, its like "if you dont agree with us, youre banned!"

reminds me of the iraqi regime



had to turn this into an iraq thread!

*** Please don't start this up again.

WeakSauceAsian, your comments are not humorous. They are rather annoying. That is why you were warned.

It's time once again to start making sure that the members abide by the rules that have been posted. I think that as mods we are too easy on the majority of people who are being troublesome. If you don't like it then go post at musclemag.com, ironmagazineforums.com and/or elitefitness.com. I couldn't care less if you don't post here again, and many of the mods can vouch for me when I say this.

Btw, this post is not directed at anyone in particular.

MrWebb78
04-01-2003, 08:05 PM
lol maki, im just bein a smart ass, first off, im never serious, certainly not about a message board, im just tryin to have fun.

i realize my method of fun strongly differs from others(aka dead baby humor), but im not tryin to be a butthole by talkin mess

Maki Riddington
04-01-2003, 08:09 PM
Well it's over my head. I guess that's one of the downsides to the internet. I can never quite judge who to take seriously and who not to.:)

MrWebb78
04-01-2003, 08:20 PM
i know, we need a sarcasm button on this thing

Severed Ties
04-01-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by MrWebb78
yeah the banning trend is gettin kinda out of hand, its like "if you dont agree with us, youre banned!"

reminds me of the iraqi regime



had to turn this into an iraq thread!

You don't get banned for not agreeing, you get banned for being a disrespectful asshole. This is a private board which many Mods and members have invested time and knowledge in. This is the house of Hulk since he pays for everything, some of us just lent a hand in building it. You have NO freedom of speak here, you have NO rights here. You are here because Hulk has opened the doors of his house to everyone to come and enjoy a friendly environment where we can promote learning, bettering ourselves and achieve our goals. You disrespect this house and you disrespect Hulk and every person who has helped make this place what it is. So you get what you deserve...your ass kicked right out the door!

These are the rules if you don't like them than leave.

Also since a select few members do not wish to leave yet have a hard time controlling their mouth we've decided to help you become better members as you will be dropping into moderation in the next few days. There has been a great deal of garbage flying around the board lately and it's time for spring cleaning....if you have to wonder then yes your probably one of them.


ST

MrWebb78
04-01-2003, 08:25 PM
just when i was starting to have fun again...

Narcissus
04-01-2003, 08:26 PM
:rolleyes:

maybe the certain mods should not provoke people, then there would never be problems to begin with.

Severed Ties
04-01-2003, 08:44 PM
Narc I'm talking in general as I really don't know how the problem between you and chris got started so I can't make any comments regarding it.

I'm just friggen sick of people not being able to behave or disagree in a respectful manner then the Mods look like the bad guys for having to ban them. We don't want to ban anyone, people get themselves banned.


ST

WeakSauceAsian
04-01-2003, 08:47 PM
Maki,

I'm going to leave words some words unsaid, you've been rude to me since the day I stepped in here - but that's your right in this medium for moderately free discussion. Forwhatever reason you yourself have dropped annoying, petty, comments in my threads - but I answered with politeness and good humor, I see that favor is not returned.

What is annoying to one person may not be to the next, and I am clearly not anywhere near as antagonistic as some of these people have been. But I see that also has not been considered.

Best,

Weaksauce

Magnus
04-01-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Severed Ties


This is the house of Hulk since he pays for everything, some of us just lent a hand in building it. You have NO freedom of speak here, you have NO rights here....

These are the rules if you don't like them than leave.



HOPEFULLY Hulk doesn't feel that way. That would make for a not very friendly house :)

Severed Ties
04-01-2003, 10:21 PM
Hulks house is extremely warm and friendly until you piss on his rug.


ST

GonePostal
04-01-2003, 10:25 PM
I blame rodent.

_-_v_-_
04-01-2003, 10:30 PM
LMAO.

That's sig material, my friend.

Maki Riddington
04-01-2003, 10:37 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by WeakSauceAsian
[B]Maki,

I'm going to leave words some words unsaid, you've been rude to me since the day I stepped in here - but that's your right in this medium for moderately free discussion. Forwhatever reason you yourself have dropped annoying, petty, comments in my threads - but I answered with politeness and good humor, I see that favor is not returned.


*** That my friend is called, "jumping into the mix." If you took it personally then I apologize for the misunderstanding.

What is annoying to one person may not be to the next, and I am clearly not anywhere near as antagonistic as some of these people have been. But I see that also has not been considered.

*** Maybe, and maybe not. The point is you've been warned. If a mod warns someone then they are exercising good judgement on their part. That is all I will say in defense of your above comment.

I apologize if it seemed like I was purposely insulting you. I wasn't. I will respond only in private messages or via email now.
Goodnight and take care.:)

Buff
04-02-2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by MrWebb78
yeah the banning trend is gettin kinda out of hand, its like "if you dont agree with us, youre banned!"

reminds me of the iraqi regime



had to turn this into an iraq thread!

omg Mr. Webb! LOL that had me LMFAO! :D

gino
04-02-2003, 11:18 AM
Awesome strength chris and nice ROM

chris mason
04-02-2003, 11:58 AM
Thanks Gino.

AlexR
04-02-2003, 08:06 PM
Very nice Chris, post more videos of your training

Narcissus
04-02-2003, 11:04 PM
less than 24 hours and my thread got locked. i suppose if it is not one person agitating and taunting me, someone else will step up.

mason, if you could, would you mind responding about my question in my thread about distinguishing between water smoothness and fat smoothness, as the 40mg dbol/day surely is causing a great deal of water retention (plus 1g test/wk and 600 mg deca/wk).

chris mason
04-03-2003, 08:12 AM
Not unless you promise to stop holding a grudge.

Narcissus
04-03-2003, 10:12 AM
ok, i will stop being an ass to you. i appreciate you cleaning up my thread and unlocking it.
although, if i may, i have to say that i feel that maki knew what my response would be by his taunting, and it was entrapment!

Narcissus
04-03-2003, 11:06 AM
are you going to respond to the question now? and anything else that was directed to you in the thread?

Big Show
04-03-2003, 11:42 AM
That's how it should be 2 people at the very least getting along

Group Hug Time :angel:

Alex.V
04-03-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Big Show
That's how it should be 2 people at the very least getting along

Group Hug Time :angel:

Not unless some girls get up in this biatch. Too much of a sausage fest for group hugs, dog.

Pup
04-03-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Narcissus
ok, i will stop being an ass to you. i appreciate you cleaning up my thread and unlocking it.
although, if i may, i have to say that i feel that maki knew what my response would be by his taunting, and it was entrapment!

Actually, i was the one that had locked the thread...it became a pissing match and cluttered with insults, i had asked that one of the mods clean it up or wait til i got home from school to do it...so i'll take the blame this time.

about about the group hug...i'm with belial, get some T & A up in this bi-atch, cause ain't nobody wanna see a bunch of men huggin tuttut

ElPietro
04-03-2003, 12:12 PM
I dunno if Alex can get his arms close enough together to hug someone with tank tops as tight as he wears! :eek:

Who needs a bench shirt! :D :p ;)

Alex.V
04-03-2003, 12:14 PM
Aww, baby, I'd say you're just sorry you can't make an XL look tight... but no points awarded for bursting out of your shirts around the midsection, my apologies. :)

Magnus
04-03-2003, 12:33 PM
lol at B

the doc
04-03-2003, 12:52 PM
alex is the tank top king

steveo
04-03-2003, 01:04 PM
Man this was an ungly thread

Big Show
04-03-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Belial


Not unless some girls get up in this biatch. Too much of a sausage fest for group hugs, dog.


Originally posted by Pup


about about the group hug...i'm with belial, get some T & A up in this bi-atch, cause ain't nobody wanna see a bunch of men huggin tuttut

Pfft,you 2 just aren't comfortable with your sexuality:p There's nothing wrong with hugging a man

ElPietro
04-03-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Belial
Aww, baby, I'd say you're just sorry you can't make an XL look tight... but no points awarded for bursting out of your shirts around the midsection, my apologies. :)

Hey! Keep up your bulk and you'll get there eventually! ;)

:cry:

chris mason
04-03-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Belial
Aww, baby, I'd say you're just sorry you can't make an XL look tight... but no points awarded for bursting out of your shirts around the midsection, my apologies. :)


That's me!

Sayiajin Prince
04-04-2003, 10:23 AM
LOL
amazing strength mr. mason

Beast
04-05-2003, 03:40 PM
I love the half second poses at the end of this video and the barbell curl one lol :D

Narcissus
04-06-2003, 03:36 PM
still waiting for an answer.

http://www.gixxer.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wait.gif

chris mason
04-06-2003, 03:40 PM
From me?

Narcissus
04-06-2003, 03:44 PM
yes. a couple pages back you said you would answer my question when i stopped holding a grudge. i think i have been exceptionally non-belligerent lately.

(the question about smooth from fat and smooth from über-bloat)

chris mason
04-06-2003, 03:55 PM
Ahh, gotcha. I thought I did:confused: . Anyway, it is much easier to tell bloat on someone who is lean. They will have low bodyfat, yet smooth legs etc. I have also noted it a lot in the neck, just below the chin. You will see guys with ripped abs yet a double chin.

In your case, I have to say the impression is a general one. You obviously have a lot of size, but it looks like under that shirt and shorts is a fair amount of fat as well. Remember the link you posted to that guy's site? You can tell he is leaner than you even through his shirt etc. You definitely have a lot of size, I am not trying to say otherwise.

I suppose in the end that severe bloating can appear as fat (Jerry Lewis' recent appearence is a good example), but if you are that bloated then you had better get clean real fast. I am sure you are not that bloated.

You have to realize I have known/seen a lot of big guys over the years. I pay attention to these things because size is my passion.

Narcissus
04-06-2003, 04:02 PM
thanks, that is what i was asking, i was not trying to call you out at all. if you had answered it before, my mistake, i must have missed it.

i must say though, in defense of my legs, there is very little fat on them. my teardrops are easily visible when i flex them.

as to under my shirt though, yes, there is fat. its cool though, i won't worry about that for a little while. we'll see where i stand at the end of this cycle, and after the clen/eca stack.

carolinagirl
04-06-2003, 09:52 PM
I have to say that I saw Matt in a tight shirt today, and I think that his bf% probably is lower than the really high numbers people have been throwing around.

His chest and neck are just huge anyway, and he has that baby face with those chubby little cheeks ;) (I have them too, so I can say that! :D) - anyhow, in that loose-ass shirt and those big shorts that he works out in, all you can see is the chest/neck/face, and it looks as though he is that thick all the way down. (I thought that myself the first day I met him.) But today he had on a shirt that actually fit, and he has a nice taper.

I'm definitely no human calculator when it comes to visual bf estimates, but I do think that a combination of possible bloat, baggy shirts, and naturally chubby cheeks (:D) may be misleading people somewhat about his bf%.

EdgeCrusher
04-06-2003, 10:10 PM
Just as the "Is Narc real" lameness was settled, how about you don't bring up BF% as a question until you've had it checked. Let's move away from arguing, especially when it's in OTHER PEOPLE'S PICTURE THREADS!

and Chris, all the pics you've posted (and vids) show you to be a solid guy, you have a bit much excess fat, but that's not a big deal if it's not a big deal to you. Actually, from pictures, it looks like I'm a smaller and younger looking you (in size and fat %).

Narcissus
04-06-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by EdgeCrusher
Just as the "Is Narc real" lameness was settled, how about you don't bring up BF% as a question until you've had it checked. Let's move away from arguing, especially when it's in OTHER PEOPLE'S PICTURE THREADS!

i am not sure if this is directed at me or carolinagirl, so i will offer 2 responses:

#1: if directed at me - i did not bring up BF% as a question. in fact, re-examining my last few posts, i did not mention BF%, i mentioned smoothness. secondly, no one is arguing. i feel that mason and i are far from arguing. i see your post as much more argumentative than my recent ones in this thread. finally, this is not a picture thread, it is a video thread. additionally, i was following up on some comments made earlier in (insert surprise here) this very thread.

#2: if directed at CG: she did not bring up BF% as a question. she was offering some insight into the question i asked, and the answer mason posted based on her observation of me today. secondly, no one is arguing. i feel that mason and her are far from arguing. i see your post as much more argumentative than her (only) post in this thread. finally, this is not a picture thread, it is a video thread.

#3: i thought you might need one more response. don't be a crybaby. no one likes to listen to it. go take a few midols, get your cramps under control, unbunch your pink panties, hug a tree, light a sensitive aromatic candle, have some tofu, save an endangered species, protest oppression, pull yourself together, and learn how to compose appropriate responses based on the facts at hand.

EdgeCrusher
04-07-2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Narcissus
when i posted my BF%, i believe i made sure to state that i had never had it measured, and it was my guess and the guess of many others.

edit: i am definitely leaner than the nfl linemen i have seen. if the average nfl linemen is near 35%, then i am certainly below that.

you weren't talking about Body fat %? OK Guy. Here's a spoon, know what to do with it?

Narcissus
04-07-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by EdgeCrusher
and do you wonder why people don't like your attitude?

actually, no, not at all. in fact, i have never wondered if people like my attitude. more importantly, i do not care if people like my attitude. additionally, i like my attitude. furthermore, i hope you do not like my attitude. in summary, as i told maki, i do not want to say that your opinion is worthless or equivalent to defecation, but hey - it is what it is.


Originally posted by EdgeCrusher
and i just had tofu, so too late :)

that's cute.

Budiak
04-07-2003, 12:19 AM
Oh, he just had tofu, how precious.

Oh look, honey, his nippies! They're budding! Get the camera!



Um....yeah. Stop tossing **** his way and he'll stop batting it back at you, man. If you have already acknowledged that attempting an argument is an exercise in futility, then why would you say anything that might be somewhat caustic, or anything at all for that matter? Especially considering the parties involved. You may think he's an asshole, which he is, but he's no fool and if you say something that is not a well thought out statement you are going to get your ass handed to you.



I'm having a sale on 'Slap Upside the Head'. 30 dollars a bottle. Two month supply.
Get it while its hot.

Narcissus
04-07-2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by EdgeCrusher


you weren't talking about Body fat %? OK Guy. Here's a spoon, know what to do with it?

apparently you are not too skilled at reading and comprehension. let me break it down in simpler terms for you - i said this in response to you:


Originally posted by Narcissus
i did not bring up BF% as a question

as a question implies that i did not bring it up, as a question. hmm, pretty simple. moving along. next, i stated:


Originally posted by Narcissus
re-examining my last few posts, i did not mention BF%

umm...not too much i can simplify here. may i suggest that you and your "special education" mentor go over a topic such as "Letters Make Words, Words Make Sentences, I am Special!" during one of your upcoming sessions?

Narcissus
04-07-2003, 12:21 AM
budiak: your posts are an exercise in comedic genius and insight. btw, may i place a bulk order for "Slap Upside the Head" ?

Magnus
04-07-2003, 12:23 AM
Vintage Narc! Classic.

*Would you like to hear today's specials?*

Budiak
04-07-2003, 12:23 AM
Ok. Credit or paypal only.Postal workers have sticky fingers.
I could ruin Tony Little's records if this stuff ever got on to QVC.

Narcissus
04-07-2003, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by Magnus
Vintage Narc! Classic.

*Would you like to hear today's specials?*

what can i say? i was feeling nostalgic.

Magnus
04-07-2003, 12:44 AM
Oh you didn't get the quote? That's dissapointing...

Narcissus
04-07-2003, 12:47 AM
of course i got the quote, i was just in a hurry to get to the kitcen and grab an ultra slim-fast.

*not if you want to keep your spleen*

come on now, i am patrick bateman.

Magnus
04-07-2003, 12:51 AM
Ok...Halberstram.

Narcissus
04-07-2003, 01:01 AM
Magnus has mistaken me for this d!ckhead, Marcus Halberstram. It seems logical because Marcus also works at P&P, and in fact does the same exact thing I do. He also has a penchant for Valentino suits and Oliver Peoples glasses. Marcus and I even go to the same barber, although I have a slightly better haircut.

Magnus
04-07-2003, 01:25 AM
*Applause* It's too bad other WBB members can't marvel at the brilliance that is Patrick Bateman.

Narcissus
04-07-2003, 01:32 AM
:thumbup:

i have skills, right?

*stares at the mirror*

"you look.......marvelous"

chris mason
04-07-2003, 07:41 AM
Ok, question, having only seen the movie. Has it ever been determined, was the whole thing just a delusion, or what? I have always been curious.

Oh, and Narc, don't be so quick to being harsh with people. Try to be more patient. You may actually misread their intent from time to time and get on them for no reason.

ask
04-07-2003, 12:06 PM
I think it was a delusion of sorts (at least that's my interpretation). Fantastic movie, pure comedy, really.

But the book is all that squared.

ask
04-07-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by chris mason
Anyway, it is much easier to tell bloat on someone who is lean. They will have low bodyfat, yet smooth legs etc. I have also noted it a lot in the neck, just below the chin. You will see guys with ripped abs yet a double chin.


Damn, man - that's me! Would you care to elaborate on that? I think I started noticing this, the smooth chin, when I started taking creatine. I got ab definition, and I suspect my BF is around 15. Not much to grab. **** is bugging me!

aidano
04-07-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by ask

But the book is all that squared.

Especially the part with the plastic tubing and the rodent. :eek:

Rex
11-12-2005, 12:06 PM
Bump!

Chris, can you make this video available again?