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Shark
04-01-2003, 10:29 AM
Uf! That's all I can say about my carb cravings. I don't feel full or satisfied after any meal. Any of you guys have any solutions for this?

raniali
04-01-2003, 10:51 AM
wait it out

it gets alot better and a helluva lot easier once your body gets used to converting to ketogensis

Ironman8
04-01-2003, 05:47 PM
Ya dude, it's always hard in the beggining. Believe me, the results will be your reward :)

Shark
04-01-2003, 07:30 PM
Another thing that i've noticed is that I am constantly hungry... is this out of the ordinary? My thinking right now is that i am eating not as much more often so that's adding to my hunger as I normally eat more large meals as opposed to less smaller ones. Still, I fell like I am going to be eating to much.

Scythian_Blade
04-01-2003, 07:38 PM
A lot of people comment on how consuming a higher amount of fat blunts hunger in a big way.

I however, was very hungry the whole time going into it as well. The hunger never decreased and was probably a result of calorie restriction more than anything. Filling up with a lot of water and mounds of fibrous vegetables helped a lot though.

Ironman8
04-01-2003, 08:39 PM
Ya, fiber helps alot.

AJ_11
04-01-2003, 09:22 PM
Eat Fat, and lots of it. This should get you by the first week. Fibre also fills you up, water, and coffee is well a valuable asset. Also may be a mental thing. Eat smaller meals more often. Some tip that got me by the first couple weeks.

Shark
04-01-2003, 11:04 PM
What happens if I do not consume enough fat? I'm not talking about not eating fat, but say i ended up eating 50/50 one day or something of that nature?

ChubbZ
04-01-2003, 11:16 PM
I am on day 2 of ckd also. I dont feel hungry, i guess it is all the fat that is keeping me full.

Take phsylum husk for fiber.

TiGeR AK
04-02-2003, 06:15 AM
i heard diet soda knocks some people out of ketosis..

do any of you people drink diet soda while on CKD? I just can't get by with water all the time... i need some kind of flavor.

Paul Stagg
04-02-2003, 07:16 AM
I never had any trouble with diet Coke.

mr_hand
04-02-2003, 09:32 AM
that funny. i keep hearing about these carb cravings, and brain fog, but I havent had either one. The most carbs I get is from salad dressing or cheese, which are very little, and Ive had no carb cravings. I find it easy to get through the week.

raniali
04-02-2003, 10:15 AM
50/50 on a keto diet is not recommended
the protein will be converted to energy if fat does not predominate the diet. i would aim for at least 65/35 up to 80/20 (f/p).

Shark
04-03-2003, 12:00 AM
Uf! Day three, 10:51 PM... this sucks. This happened last night as well. I layed down into bed and felt like I was going to throw up cuz my head and stomach were all stewey. Anyway, one more question now. Does anyone doing keto or CKD ever take the fish oil or flax oil pills for extra fat? It seems like most of them ar eonly one gram per pill so you would have to take a lot of them.

Shark
04-03-2003, 12:01 AM
P.S. Where can I get Ketostix? Does Rite-Aid have them?

bradley
04-03-2003, 03:11 AM
Does anyone doing keto or CKD ever take the fish oil or flax oil pills for extra fat? It seems like most of them ar eonly one gram per pill so you would have to take a lot of them.

Adding fish or flax oil would be fine while performing a CKD and you could also add other oils like olive oil to get some extra fat in your diet. You can buy fish and flax oil in the bottle and this would be recommended when referring to flax oil because the oil is very sensitive to heat and light. Make sure that you get the flax oil out of a refrigerated section.


P.S. Where can I get Ketostix? Does Rite-Aid have them?

You can get them online and Rite-Aid should have them but I am not positive.

Ironman8
04-03-2003, 07:26 AM
Hey, crussow, if you feel really sick, you should stop the diet. Your health is more important than your weight.

Shark
04-03-2003, 10:25 AM
I woke up this morning feeling great! Well rested, not sick to my stomach, and according to the scale, i'm at 226.2 down from 234.5 on sunday. I realize that this is mostly water and glycogen but still, its nice to look at and serves as great motivation. Plus, my pants fit a little better already. Going today to find some Keto sticks after class.

mr_hand
04-03-2003, 10:26 AM
hey crussow, my stomach usually takes a beating on mon & tues, but by wed I am usually fine. And whomever asked about Rite-Aid, i actually went there earlier this week to buy Keto sticks and they told me they no longer sell them.

raniali
04-03-2003, 10:45 AM
http://www.labessentials.com/Ketone_strips.htm

Ironman8
04-03-2003, 03:54 PM
Hehheh, good job Crussow. Keep it up dude!

Shark
04-03-2003, 04:03 PM
I hardly had any hunger cravings at all today, but i'm still not sure if i'm in ketosis. I am ordering some KetoStix off of the website that raniali provided and i'm gonna do my carb up as planned this saturday afternoon and sunday. Next week i'm gonna start over and see if it happens any quicker or if I go through all these terrible feelings again. If i do, I am going to go two weeks between carb ups instead of one.

Shark
04-04-2003, 12:31 PM
So I hit Rite-Aid and picked up some Keto-Stix... a real rip off, $15 for 25. The thing is, I really wanted to know if I was doing this right or not. Turns out, I'm in Ketosis! Not only that, i went out last night and drank, but only hard liquor and it did not effect my ketosis. Very excited now that I have confirmation that I am doing this right!

raniali
04-04-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by crussow
So I hit Rite-Aid and picked up some Keto-Stix... a real rip off, $15 for 25.

hence the reason i provided the link

but at least u know.

Relentless
04-04-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by crussow
So I hit Rite-Aid and picked up some Keto-Stix... a real rip off, $15 for 25. The thing is, I really wanted to know if I was doing this right or not. Turns out, I'm in Ketosis! Not only that, i went out last night and drank, but only hard liquor and it did not effect my ketosis. Very excited now that I have confirmation that I am doing this right!

alcohol + ketosis = bad idea

avoid it

mr_hand
04-04-2003, 02:13 PM
This "brain fog" symptom of knowing that you are in ketosis. What is it supposed to feel like?

Relentless
04-04-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by mr_hand
This "brain fog" symptom of knowing that you are in ketosis. What is it supposed to feel like?

To me it felt like I was slightly stupider than normal. Almost as if I'd become French. ;)

Seriuosly though, it's just that... a bit of a fog. A bit of a slowdown in thinking. It varies person to person.

Brandon7775643
04-04-2003, 02:17 PM
When buying ketostix from a pharmacy like Riteaid or Walmart, make sure you check the diabetic section and not the weight-loss section.

I ran out the other day and wanted to pick up a few more until my online supply arrived, and I found the $15-for-25 deal in the diet section, but the diabetic section had $12-for-50. Still not as good as online, but good in a pinch.

Ironman8
04-04-2003, 04:21 PM
Question about ketostix: Are they needles? I want to try some, but I don't want to be sticking them in my arm everyday.

bradley
04-04-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Ironman8
Question about ketostix: Are they needles? I want to try some, but I don't want to be sticking them in my arm everyday.

No, they are little strips that you urinate on and they will turn a certain color to indicate your level of urinary ketones.

Shark
04-07-2003, 11:50 AM
So at the end of my first week, I am just under 2 pounds of where i started last week. I did 5 day no carbs, two day re-feed, and at the beginning i was 234.5 and this morning i was about 232.5. After I started my re-feed i gained back all the water and glycogen weight that i had lost during the week and this was kind of a downer as i liked seeing those smaller numbers on the scale. Regardless, I am going to see how I fair on a 12 day carb-restriction period and hold off on the re-feed until next weekend. Then i can see how much of a difference those extra days of car-reduction help. As always, any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

Scythian_Blade
04-07-2003, 11:55 AM
If you do it for 12 days straight, I suggest throwing a carb up meal or two in there in the middle or something. It won't keep you out of keto very long

raniali
04-07-2003, 12:14 PM
i would suggest minimizing your refeed period to about 24-36 hours instead of a full 48. try 24 ... see how you feel ... and if you don't feel completely refilled continue for the next half day (36 hrs total). doing a refeed correctly is just as important as the 5 days in keto but has more variability in it depending on the person's metabolism and activity level.

bradley
04-07-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by raniali
i would suggest minimizing your refeed period to about 24-36 hours instead of a full 48. try 24 ... see how you feel ... and if you don't feel completely refilled continue for the next half day (36 hrs total). doing a refeed correctly is just as important as the 5 days in keto but has more variability in it depending on the person's metabolism and activity level.

I agree with Raniali, try the shorter carb load. Going that long would hinder training IMO. You could also try cycling calories throughout the week while you are in ketosis. Lyle McDonald recommendations from his book The Ketogenic Diet looks something like this:

Monday: 12 cal/lb
Tuesday: 10 cal/lb
Wednesday: 15 cal/lb
Thursday: 13 cal/lb
Friday: 12 cal/lb

He also mentions that the lowest calorie day should be followed by the highest calorie day. The average cals for the week come out to be 12.4. Just a thought.

Shark
04-07-2003, 04:46 PM
Bradley,

What would be the reasoning for cycling the caloric intake of my days in that fashion? I thought that each day needed to be balanced? Also, I am planning on doing the 24-36 hour re-feeds from now on. I felt like i was spending too much time out of ketosis. What would happen if you just jumped out for say like 2 meals on saturday and tried to get back in on sunday? How long does one meal including carbs nock you out of ketosis? Also, if i were to carb up on alternating weekends, would that mean I should only lift on alternating weeks. I don't want to damage my muscle but I want to lose this weight.

raniali
04-07-2003, 04:54 PM
if you are going 5 days no carbs - you need at least a 24 hr carb up. don't jinx yourself here. you will NOT be able to function in the gym with 2 meals of carbs. this is the reasoning behind a CKD -- to effectively allow ketosis AND wt training. the refeeds are ESSENTIAL to a quality cut. your refeeds should be predominantly carbs, minimal protein and fat. bear this in mind as the quality of your refeed determines whether the wt you lost during keto comes back or not. [ominous voice]BUT DO NOT NEGLECT WEEKLY REFEEDS. [/ominous voice]

bradley
04-07-2003, 05:02 PM
What would be the reasoning for cycling the caloric intake of my days in that fashion? I thought that each day needed to be balanced?

This was something that was mentioned that could be done when fat loss began to slow. Kind of a way to help break through fat loss plateaus. Basically cycling the calories helps tweak the metabolism a little. Notice that you are still taking in roughly the same amount of calories over the course of the week.


What would happen if you just jumped out for say like 2 meals on saturday and tried to get back in on sunday? How long does one meal including carbs nock you out of ketosis?

This would probably depend on the individual and the amount and type of carbs that you consumed. Going at it this way sounds more like a TKD if you consumed the carbs around your training.


Also, if i were to carb up on alternating weekends, would that mean I should only lift on alternating weeks. I don't want to damage my muscle but I want to lose this weight.

I probably wouldn't recommend a carb load every other week because I wouldn't want to stretch my training out over that long of a time period. Lyle McDonald outlined a program with a carb up every 10 days. Looked something like this:

day1: upper body
day2: lower body
day4: off/ cardio
day5: off/ cardio
day6: short depletion workout
day7: cardio/off
day8: cardio/off
day9: cardio/off
day10: depletion workout and begin carb up

From what you posted earlier it looks like the CKD is going well seeig that you lost approximately 2 pounds the first week. That is about the optimum amount of weight to lose each week IMO.

Shark
04-08-2003, 09:31 AM
Is it true that at over 2 pounds I would be losing muscle as well as fat? I know everyone on here believes this but where does it actually say that anything over two pounds lost each week is going to come from muscle? Also, as each week progresses, does it get easier to switch back and forth from ketosis to regular glycogen consumption? I am on day two of week two and I am feeling some of those negative feelings that I had last week when I was switching into ketosis. Arguably, I don't feel as bad... but its not by any means comfortable.

bradley
04-08-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by crussow
Is it true that at over 2 pounds I would be losing muscle as well as fat? I know everyone on here believes this but where does it actually say that anything over two pounds lost each week is going to come from muscle? Also, as each week progresses, does it get easier to switch back and forth from ketosis to regular glycogen consumption? I am on day two of week two and I am feeling some of those negative feelings that I had last week when I was switching into ketosis. Arguably, I don't feel as bad... but its not by any means comfortable.

I think the more weight you lose in a week increases the chance that you could be losing LBM. I am not saying that if you lose 3 pounds in a week it will be 2lbs. of fat and 1 pound of muscle.

Shifting back into ketosis should become easier but this would also vary from person to person.

Shark
04-08-2003, 11:37 AM
Thanks for all the info bradley, its been very helpfull... i'm sure i will have more questions coming up =).

Scythian_Blade
04-08-2003, 12:18 PM
crussow, the 2 pound rule is just a ballpark estimate. Just like the 1g/lb bw in protein rule. Someone who is overly corpulent will obviously be able to lose more than 2 lbs per week. That is the reason behind very low calorie diets for the severely obese.

Someone going from 9-10% bodyfat trying to get to 5-6% clearly must go with a much more conservative approach.

I think that for a typical bodybuilder trying to cut from somewhere around 14-18% bodyfat down to around 10% or so, this is semi-reasonable. Nothing overly scientific about it from my perspective. It depends on too many factors.

Shark
04-08-2003, 02:03 PM
Yeah, this is why i sort of feel like i could afford to drop more than 2 pounds per week at least for the first 3-4 weeks. Right now I am probably about 20-23% (even though my costco bodyfat scale says I'm 40+%) and I figure until i'm like 15% or so I could drop a little quicker. At that point I definitely want to drop the number of pounds i lose per week.

Big & Tall
04-08-2003, 03:09 PM
Check out my journal, I am doing a CKD right now. I do a 48 hr carbup and don't seem to have a problem with it, but I have a pretty fast metabolism. Also, I have kept cals constant throughout, and haven't hit a plateau yet, so I wouldn't worry about that too much yet.

As far as muscle loss goes, this diet seems great. I have lost about 8 lbs so far (based on my last post carb-up weight) and my strength has pretty much stayed constant or slightly increased on all my exercises.

For a workout, I do a 1 day full body program right after my carb load. It is rough and a little long, but if you have the focus, I think it is good for getting the most out of your carbups.

For those carb cravings, try sugar-free jello, it is ace. I generally don't drink much diet soda, but I do coffee and haven't had a problem with it, although I really haven't had to worry too much about appetite supression. Usually for me, the first day of no carbs I will be a little more hungry, but then my appetite drops dramatically for days 2-5.

Anyway, good luck with the diet.

Shark
04-10-2003, 05:08 PM
I'm on day 11 (technically) would be like day 4 of my second week if that makes any more sense. Basically, i am getting tired of eating the same food all the time. Its hard for me becasue I love food, so eating the same bland stuff all the time can get pretty boring. SUgar free jello saved my diet the other night, and i think its one of the better things i have found to keep me going on this diet. As long as the scale keeps telling me the pounds are going down i will keep going till i reach my goal. Here;s what i am eating these days:

Eggs
Chicken
Beef
Bacon
Cheese (various)
tuna
..... that's about it. Anyone have any good suggestions?

Ironman8
04-10-2003, 05:37 PM
I know how you feel Crussow. When I was dieting, I wanted to eat the things I like (burgers, pizza, etc. :D). But, think of something else except food. And when it's time to eat, you won't notice you're hungry :). Try it and see how it works.

raniali
04-10-2003, 05:40 PM
hot dogs and sausages (watch the carbs here in certain brands)
sardines - all fish
don't forget condiments - dressings, soy sauce, mayo, mustard

oooh - and my fav on keto diet .... fat-free whipped cream!!!

Shark
04-10-2003, 07:51 PM
fat free whipped cream has like 1 carb per two teaspoons... unless you know of a different brand?

raniali
04-11-2003, 11:04 AM
yeah - i think i can deal with 1-2 carbs a day just to have the taste of something else besides oil in my mouth.