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AJ_11
04-02-2003, 10:03 PM
When is the best time take w/ meals, before after, alone. What can I take it with I am mainly talking about phsylum husk and Gum(Guar and Xanthan)

I know that it may stop absortion of some nutruients and I heard that you take it with protein powder, will this also increase the time it takes to process it.

I know that 20 - 30 is recommended a day is there a limit on per meal/ time and what meals I should take it with/out.

Thanks for the info.

Shao-LiN
04-03-2003, 12:12 AM
Take it whenever you feel like it.

bradley
04-03-2003, 03:22 AM
I wouldn't take it at the same time I took my mult-vitamin because it can, like you said, block the absorbtion of some nutrients. I would just add a little to the meals that do not contain much fiber and yes the fiber will slow digestion and keep you feeling full longer. I am not aware of a per meal limit but if you take too much at once I am sure you will be aware of it, if you know what I mean. Might want to slowly increase fiber intake so as to allow the body to get used to the increse in fiber.

Ironman8
04-03-2003, 07:23 AM
I like taking mine at lunch. Oatmeal is a good source of fiber, isn't it? Or are vegetables better?

AJ_11
04-03-2003, 09:24 AM
Oatmeal is an excellent source of soluable and insoluable fibre. Veggies are great too, but I do eat veggies almost at every meal and I am nowhere near the 30grams that I wish to be at.

aka23
04-03-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by AJ_11
When is the best time take w/ meals, before after, alone. What can I take it with I am mainly talking about phsylum husk and Gum(Guar and Xanthan)

I know that it may stop absortion of some nutruients and I heard that you take it with protein powder, will this also increase the time it takes to process it.

I know that 20 - 30 is recommended a day is there a limit on per meal/ time and what meals I should take it with/out.

I would suggest getting the fiber from foods, rather than supplements. Foods contain valuable nutrients that supplements often do not; supplements are often more expensive than fiber obtained through naturally foods; they usually offer fewer types of fiber than a balanced diet; and sometimes they present a medical risk. It is very easy to the recommend 20-30g per day from foods. For example fiber quantities from some of the foods I ate yesterday are liste below. It is not unusual for me to get more than 20g fiber in a single meal.

1 cup black beans -- 15g fiber
1.2 cup oatmeal (dry) -- 10g fiber
1.8 cup Shredded Wheat -- 10g fiber
1 package broccoli -- 8g fiber
1 package green beans -- 8g fiber
1 sweet potato -- 6g fiber
1 apple -- 4g fiber
1 small banana -- 3g fiber

Grains with bran tend to be higher in insoluble fiber, while legumes/fruits/vegetables/oats tend to have good amounts of soluble fiber. I think that if you are not getting 20g of fiber per day from food sources, then you are likely not eating enough whole grains/fruits/vegetables to get the RDA of several other nutrients as well.

If you must take fiber supplements, then I would recommend avoiding the following times. Pre-workout meal since it may cause indigestion. Post-workout meal since slow down recovery. Within a few a few hours of times you take mineral supplements since it may bind to minerals and/or decrease absorbtion. Also be sure to take fiber supplements with plenty of water to prevent intestinal issues.

You can avoid some of the negative effects of fiber by splitting it up over several meals. I disagree with the whole 30g limit idea as there plenty of cultures and persons that consume far more than 30g of fiber without adverse health effects. There are also plenty of nutritionists who recommend significantly more than 30g for optimal health. I think the adverse effects tend to be more associated with bran or other added fiber than natural fiber from foods.

aka23
04-03-2003, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Ironman8
I like taking mine at lunch. Oatmeal is a good source of fiber, isn't it? Or are vegetables better?

Oatmeal and vegatables are both excellent sources of fiber. One serving of oatmeal usually has more fiber than one serving of vegetables (legumes are an exception), but vegetables often have more fiber per calorie. They contain different types of fiber and offer different benefits. I recommend eating both oatmeal and vegetables, as well as a variety of other fiber-rich foods.

AJ_11
04-03-2003, 12:33 PM
I'm on a TKD and do take as much from natural sources as I can. To that extent. I don't think that I have ever really gone a regular basis. Ususally KETO or not it's ever 2-3 days is this normal.



1 cup black beans -- 15g fiber
**Can't stand beans
1.2 cup oatmeal (dry) -- 10g fiber
**eat plenty on Carb ups
1.8 cup Shredded Wheat -- 10g fiber
**Dont care too much, plus on a KETO
1 package broccoli -- 8g fiber
I eat about a cup a time at least once a day
1 package green beans -- 8g fiber
**Can't stand beans
1 sweet potato -- 6g fiber
**Carb ups
1 apple -- 4g fiber
**carb ups
1 small banana -- 3g fiber
**Keto


So that is why I supplement. I add Guar Gum to my shakes mainly to thiken, also Psylium Husk to whey for a quick meal that slows down digestion. I also add some fat in there.

Don't get me wrong Even on Carb load day I feel that I am not really regualr.




Within a few a few hours of times you take mineral supplements since it may bind to minerals and/or decrease absorbtion.

Does this include fibre that is found in veggies especially spinach("staple food of my diet") and brocolli?



I disagree with the whole 30g limit idea as there plenty of cultures and persons that consume far more than 30g of fiber without adverse health effects. There are also plenty of nutritionists who recommend significantly more than 30g for optimal health. I think the adverse effects tend to be more associated with bran or other added fiber than natural fiber from foods.

30 is not my limit it is only the number that I wish to meet. I would be happy going over. But I usually get 10-15 from veggies, the rest comes from Psylium husk

Vido
04-03-2003, 12:47 PM
AJ, something doesn't add up. You consume veggies at almost every meal, yet you're only getting 10-15 g of of fibre from them. Take a look at the numbers posted by aka23. It doesn't take many veggies to get well over this number.

aka23
04-03-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by AJ_11
Does this include fibre that is found in veggies especially spinach("staple food of my diet") and brocolli?

Insoluble fiber such as the type in bran tends to have the greatest effect on absorbtion of minerals. Other substances that often accompany fiber such as phytates and oxalates also have negative effects. Most fiber-rich diets are also rich in minerals, so there is usually an overall increase in minerals. Spinach is very high in oxalates. Only about 5% of the calcium is spinach absorbed because of the high oxylate content. The oxalates in spinach also inhibit the absorption of calcium and certain other minerals from other foods/supplements being eaten at the same time to a lesser extent. Spinach is a healthy food that is beneficial when eaten in moderate amounts. The binding of calcium and other minerals may not be signficant depending on the other factors, such as the amount of spinach consumed.

aka23
04-03-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Vido
AJ, something doesn't add up. You consume veggies at almost every meal, yet you're only getting 10-15 g of of fibre from them. Take a look at the numbers posted by aka23. It doesn't take many veggies to get well over this number.

I listed the amount of fiber in a 10oz package of vegetables. I generally eat the full package within a given day, but most people consume smaller servings. The amounts of fiber in typical servings of the vegetables that AJ mentioned are listed below:

1 cup broccoli -- 5g fiber
1 cup spinach -- 4g fiber

AJ_11
04-03-2003, 03:11 PM
The reason that I mention that I get around 10-15 is cause I am using the stats from fitday.com I am alos inder the impression that some of their figures are incorrect at times. But who knows.

Typical day I eat:
2-3 cups of spinach divided into two portions
1 cup Broccoli usually every day but not always
3-5oz Cucumbers/pickles

All veggies are eaten raw(can't stand cooked ones)

Then I switch it up and add green peppers, onions, lettuce depends what I buy when I grocery shop.

Okay speaking optimaly, what ratios should I consume these and other low carb/high fibre foods(Open to more suggestions. )

There are a ton of foods that are good for you but then you find out that they are bad for you at the same time. I always thought that there is no way that spinach would be considered bad even in high volumes. :confused: I guess to much of a good thing can still be a bad thing saying is true.

bradley
04-03-2003, 04:21 PM
There are a ton of foods that are good for you but then you find out that they are bad for you at the same time. I always thought that there is no way that spinach would be considered bad even in high volumes.

I don't think he is saying that spinach is bad. I wouldn't worry myself too much about spinach blocking the absorbtion of nutrients. If you are consuming different types of veggies throughout the day then I don't see any need to worry about it.

I agree with Vido in that from the way you are describing your diet you should be getting pretty close to 25-30g per day.

I would just have maybe broccolli at one meal and then make up a salad that contains some spinach along with lettuce, peppers, onions, etc. Also I find that cauliflower and things like turnip and collard greens are excellent when performing a low carb diet. Also cooked cabbage is good IMO (even though I know you mentioned you don't like cooked veggies).

AJ_11
04-03-2003, 05:12 PM
Thanks for your suggestions. It could be just a fitday thing. One thing that I have though of is Psyluim husk used instead of oatmeal(for recipes such as cookies, and oatmeal pancakes) for my low carb days. Then eat oatmeal postworkout.

aka23
04-03-2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by AJ_11
There are a ton of foods that are good for you but then you find out that they are bad for you at the same time. I always thought that there is no way that spinach would be considered bad even in high volumes. :confused: I guess to much of a good thing can still be a bad thing saying is true.

I think it is fine to consume moderate amounts of high-oxalate foods unless you are at risk for oxalate-linked diseases such as kidney disease, kidney stones, rheumatoid arthritis, or gout. Spinach is not bad for you. It has many positive benefits and reduces risk of several serious diseases. It is just not a food that you should consume in excessive amounts. I would say the same thing about many other foods that are considered healthy. I would not count on getting your daily calcium or iron from large quanities of spinach because of the mineral binding, and I would avoid taking mineral supplements with spinach. The mineral binding is unlikely to cause problems if your diet contains a good amount of vitamins/minerals from food sources (more than RDA).


Originally posted by AJ_11
Typical day I eat:
2-3 cups of spinach divided into two portions
1 cup Broccoli usually every day but not always
3-5oz Cucumbers/pickles

All veggies are eaten raw(can't stand cooked ones)

Then I switch it up and add green peppers, onions, lettuce depends what I buy when I grocery shop.

Okay speaking optimaly, what ratios should I consume these and other low carb/high fibre foods(Open to more suggestions. )

Among the vegetables listed above, I would recommend the largest portion of broccoli because it is especially rich in nutrients and has little adverse effects. Best of all would be to consume a wide variety of different types of foods and not make any one vegetable a staple. It is also beneficial to get fiber from non-vegetable sources since different types of foods contain different types of fiber.

Ironman8
04-03-2003, 06:18 PM
I don't know if this ha been addressed, but you should get fiber and protein in the same sitting, so beans would be perfect.

AJ_11
04-04-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Ironman8
so beans would be perfect.

I would rather eat fried monkey brain than beans. My mom used to make me eat them, till I threw up from the taste. That was the last time she maid me eat anything:D

bradley
04-04-2003, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Ironman8
I don't know if this ha been addressed, but you should get fiber and protein in the same sitting, so beans would be perfect.

I agree that both fiber and protein are both good thing to include in your diet but what would be the difference in eating fiber at say meal 1 and meal 3 but little or none at meal 2?

Ironman8
04-04-2003, 07:17 AM
There wouldn't be a difference. It would be beneficial if you get protein and fiber at the same time at every meal.

AJ_11
04-04-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Ironman8
There wouldn't be a difference. It would be beneficial if you get protein and fiber at the same time at every meal.

Well exept around your workout as this will slow the digestion of the protein. But yes I try to get at least a little every meal.