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Khar
04-04-2003, 03:27 PM
I'm gonna start my first refeed tomorrow. I'm around 12-14% bodyfat and going to be doing it for 48 hours. What sort of foods should I eat. I'm also 5'8 and about 154-156lbs. I'm going to be eating around 2600Kcals. I just need to know what kind of foods I should be eating and how many carbs/pro/fat I should be eating.

Ironman8
04-04-2003, 03:36 PM
Well, sugary cereals in the morning (best part of refeed :D). Then, complex as well as some simple carbs throughout the day. Get some fruit and veggie in there as well. Remember, reffeed does not mean cheat. Eat clean.

Vido
04-04-2003, 03:51 PM
All I know about refeeds is keep protein moderate and fat very low.

bradley
04-04-2003, 04:19 PM
This should explain it to you.

http://www.theministryoffitness.com/mof/library/articles/article18.htm

Khar
04-04-2003, 07:45 PM
Ok, since I plan on starting tomorrow morning with the refeed should I workout tomorrow? If I do anything it will be cardio as my weight room is closed and my lifting schedule is a monday, wednesday, friday using wannabebig routine 1. I wasn't planning on doing anything tomorrow and running ~4 miles on sunday. So basically what I'm asking is it wise to do cardio both days while on the refeed or will I be fine resting tomorrow?

Khar
04-04-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Ironman8
Well, sugary cereals in the morning (best part of refeed :D). Then, complex as well as some simple carbs throughout the day. Get some fruit and veggie in there as well. Remember, reffeed does not mean cheat. Eat clean.

Ya I know to eat clean, but what foods are good to eat early on...specific examples and what foods are better for later in the day? I plan on having around 6 meals if allowable at around 500Kcals/meal. My parents are visiting me at school tomorrow...so I'm sure they will take me out to dinner. So tomorrow I'm going to shoot for 4 meals 2 at 500Kcals and 2 at around 1000Kcals.

Vido
04-04-2003, 08:16 PM
The refeeds are supposed to be centered around your workouts. Maybe you should just hold off for a couple of days before you do one.

That link Bradley gave has lots of examples of what types of food you can eat.

bradley
04-05-2003, 04:31 AM
Did you read the article I posted? All the questions that you are asking are addressed there.

Behemoth
04-05-2003, 11:11 AM
Thanks for that article Bradley. One of the most useful things I've read in quite some time.
But would you guys agree with the refeed frequency they suggest...

Refeed Duration/Frequency

Bodyfat Percentage Refeed Duration Refeed Frequency
> 20% 24-48 hrs 7-10 days
15-20% 24-48 hrs 5 days
< 15% 48 hrs 4 days
< 10% 48-72 hrs 3 days


This would mean that as you get sub 10% bodyfat, you would eat below maintence 3 days, then refeed 3 days, then repeat. Seems a bit much to me, but I really don't know much on this subject...?

bradley
04-05-2003, 01:57 PM
Found these and hopefully they might help and the last is a link to an old thread that might be of interest.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=refeed+frequency+group:misc.*+author:Lyle+author:McDonald&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=r&selm=3DBC8BEF.E4972D22%40onr.com&rnum=2


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=refeed+frequency+group:misc.*+author:Lyle+author:McDonald&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=r&selm=3D6943E9.F17A0F54%40onr.com&rnum=3

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10769&highlight=refeed+frequency

From what I gather you can do shorter more frequent refeeds or longer less frequent refeeds. In one of the above threads Lyle refers to his refeeds as a mega TKD. Scheduling a 5 hour refeed around his training.

Behemoth
04-05-2003, 08:09 PM
Out of all the stuff I've read it never really says why to keep the fat so low? Is it because your going to be consuming so many simple carbs that your insulin will very going crazy. Making for easy fat storage?

carolinagirl
04-05-2003, 11:47 PM
Yep. You don't want free fatty acids in the bloodstream in the presence of insulin b/c they will be very likely to be stored as fat.

aka23
04-06-2003, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by Behemoth
Out of all the stuff I've read it never really says why to keep the fat so low? Is it because your going to be consuming so many simple carbs that your insulin will very going crazy. Making for easy fat storage?

Most of the refeed benefits are associated with increased carb intake, not increased fat intake. You get higher leptin levels with the same calories by lowering fat intake during refeeds. Quoting the article at http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/body_230cheat.html

"It's important to note, however, that the physiological benefits mentioned above are only noticeable when an abundance of carbohydrate is taken in during the "cheat." In one particular study, ten healthy females were overfed on either fat or carbohydrates. In the carb group, there was an acute 28% increase in serum leptin levels. (Again, these are increased levels from baseline; leptin levels associated with severe dieting are far below baseline.) However, the Fat group didn't experience any significant change in plasma leptin concentration (1). "

In addition eating a lot of fat while being in a caloric surplus can result in fat gain. Carb intake is less likely to result in fat gain since your gylcogen levels are low at the start of the refeed. In the interview on this site, Lyle Mcdonald says

"So, when you're depleted of glycogen, as you should be going into the refeed, you can really get away with a huge carb intake before you get into trouble with fat gain. If you figure glycogen storage at nearly 10 g/kg over 24 hours (so that 650+ grams for a little guy like me) plus daily caloric requirements (say 2000 cal/day, which is another 500 grams of carbs), that's a ridiculous amount of carbs before you get into real problems with fat storage.

In contrast, the body's ability to increase fat burning (oxidation) in response to increased fat intake is not only small, but it's delayed, takes at least a few days under the best conditions. So a high fat intake over the short-term *can* lead to significant fat gain. "

Behemoth
04-06-2003, 10:28 AM
Well then why consume fat at all in that day? Having one day with very very low fat wouldn't really fook with your hormonal profile would it?

bradley
04-06-2003, 11:12 AM
Essential fats such as omega-3s and CLA should probably be the only "intentional" fat during the reefed, maybe some flax too 14 grams or 1 tablespoon.

Taken from:http://musclemonthly.com/articles/010515/010515-haycock-howz-it-work.htm

Basically get some EFA's and try and keep fat at a minimum during the rest of the refeed. Of course more than likely you will have some "incidental" fat from the carb sources you are consuming during the refeed.

Ironman8
04-06-2003, 11:20 AM
Ok, I have a question. Since you said you should keep fat low on refeed days due to your insulin, does this mean you should keep fat low when your blood sugar is too low? I mean, if your REALLY hungry, and you wanna eat something, should I keep the fat low so I won't gain weight?

Manveet
04-06-2003, 11:22 AM
When I did my refeeds all of my fat was basically incidental. I didn't take any flax etc. All the fat came incedentally from my carbs and protein.

Khar
04-08-2003, 09:56 AM
Ok, yes I did read the article Bradley posted, but in the article it does not say which type of foods (i.e. High GI, Low GI, High Insulin, or Low Insulin) to eat at what parts of the day. This is what I need know. All the article has is a listing of foods...

bradley
04-08-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Khar
Ok, yes I did read the article Bradley posted, but in the article it does not say which type of foods (i.e. High GI, Low GI, High Insulin, or Low Insulin) to eat at what parts of the day. This is what I need know. All the article has is a listing of foods...

Taken from the above mentioned article:

Carbs should come from simple sources, e.g. Sucrose, Glucose, Fructose, Maltodextrin, etc.
Refilling liver glycogen is important during the refeed, so try to take some Fructose at each meal, e.g. Bananas, Grapes, Pineapple, Dried Apricots.

Take simple carbs at each meal, and switch to starchy carbs for the last few meals of the day if desired (If a 1-day refeed), or simple carbs one day, and starchy carbs the next (If 2-day).