Vinegar

[Maki Riddington]

Has anyone used vinegar to aid in glycogen repletion of the skeletal muscle?

CD, Blood?

[Blood&Iron]

Nope.

I dunno if it's related to your question, but there was a long-a*s, in-depth thread on the Avant forum on vinegar just a few weeks ago.

[Maki Riddington]

Ya, I read it awhile ago.

[MWB]

I take braggs apple cider vinegar to help with digestion. Less gas. I didn't know about the glucose disposal aspect of it until I read that thread.

I take 1-2 tbls in about 4-8 oz of water with 2 splenda packets.

[PaulB]

do you guys hve a link to that thread for me?

[AJ_11]

Originally posted by MWB
I take braggs apple cider vinegar to help with digestion. Less gas. I didn't know about the glucose disposal aspect of it until I read that thread.

I take 1-2 tbls in about 4-8 oz of water with 2 splenda packets.

Has it been working. When do you take it. I have tried it but can't stand the taste, never thought of putting it in splenda thou.

[Severed Ties]

I would if I didn't find the smell so dam revolting.


ST

[AJ_11]

Actually you can get apple cider in the pill form. Might be easier to swallow.

[MWB]

Yeah but you have to take 15 pills to equal 1 tbs of the liquid. Plus the liquid is only like $3.50 for the good stuff.

Again, I take it for aided digestion and it does make a difference in that regard. FOr glucose disposal stick with r-ala.

Depending on how much spelnda and water you use, it can taste almost like real apple cider and it can tast like very acidic *****. YMMV

[restless]

I have been using it pre-post workout for some time now, along with buffering minerals.


Vinegar inhibits an enzime called phosphofructokinase that's a part of the glycolysis cycle (use of carbs for energy), thus ******ing it, and due to this happening as the body is temporarily not capable of using them for energy (at least not as efficiently as normal) glucose will go to your liver and, if taken pre -post workout, to your muscles. Something like that. The effect was significant in rats and in humans also. Worth trying. Citric acid will produce the same effect and is more palatable.

I honestly can't say I saw anything amazing results wise but I have been cutting on moderate carb diet. I do seem to be suffering a little less of the flat muscle look syndrome than in previous cuts, but I'm not sure it's the vinegar.


Buffering minerals are also insteresting. Essentially, we bodybuilders have a tendency to live on acidizing foods, like grains, animal protein, sodas (diet or not), milk, which due to the high phosporous content in very acidifying, and the lack of fruit and green vegetables ends droping our organism PH's to lowish (acid) values. One of the negative consequences of this, besides increased calcium excretion seems to be IMPAIRED PROTEIN SYNTHESIS. What I did was, I went to a pet store and bought one of those PH tests for fish tanks, pissed in it, saw that my PH was below 5 (don't know how much below because the scale ended there) and then went to the pharmacy in search of powdered magnesium, calcium, potassium and sodium, all in the citrate (preferable) of bicarbonate form. I could only find sodium and potassium so that's what I'm using. I keep my urine's PH within 6 and 7 now.

Here is link to a relevant thread at the HST forum, with links to threads in other forums (including avant labs, I think) in them:


Vinegar thread (http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=4;t=131)

[AJ_11]

Wow there is a ton of info out there on this subject. Tried to read as much as I can. Anyways what does everyone on the WBB have to say.

Really I don't think that they came to a conclusion.

[restless]

Originally posted by AJ_11
Wow there is a ton of info out there on this subject. Tried to read as much as I can. Anyways what does everyone on the WBB have to say.

Really I don't think that they came to a conclusion.

The researchers came to conclusions, namely that rats fed vinegar with carbs after exercise showed a significantly better rate of glycogen depletion, as well as larger amount (up to 10 % more) than rats that didn't use vinegar. As for humans I guess were still being the guinea pigs.

[Maki Riddington]

Hence my question, I guess I'm just gonna have to experiment although I really don't see a point since I'm taking meformin and ALA right now. I do however like your ph method.

[AJ_11]

So if it blocks the use of carbs for energy, then what does the body use:confused:? Also restless, upon trial and error would you recommend taking vinegar with meals either pre-post workout or any other time of the day for example with a salad. I am also taking ALA and on a moderate to low carb diet with the exception aroung training. I guess that the fact that it helps out with digestion is a plus but reading the other threads I am under the impression that fat oxidation is halted( doesn't that turn off the bodies mechnesism to burn fat.) Sorry if I have asked to much but I am a bit confused. :help:

[restless]

Originally posted by AJ_11
So if it blocks the use of carbs for energy, then what does the body use:confused:?

It won't block it completetly, t's more like it ******s it.


Also restless, upon trial and error would you recommend taking vinegar with meals either pre-post workout or any other time of the day for example with a salad.

only pre post workout, I'm not sure but reasoning would say that if taken at other times of the day it would most lkely promote fat storage than anything else.

[AJ_11]

Originally posted by restless


It won't block it completetly, t's more like it ******s it.



only pre post workout, I'm not sure but reasoning would say that if taken at other times of the day it would most lkely promote fat storage than anything else.

Okay I have done some more reading upon the use of Apple cider Vinegar. Some sites sites point to evidence that it promotes fatloss(they each give various reasons), some sites say that no effect whatsoever and then there are studies where "******s" fat oxidation.

I haven't read that it would actually promote the storage of fat though. The reason taht I am asking is I have been taking it with salads and olive oil added for a vinigrette. So if this is hurting fatloss than I would stop.

[restless]

Originally posted by AJ_11


I haven't read that it would actually promote the storage of fat though. The reason taht I am asking is I have been taking it with salads and olive oil added for a vinigrette. So if this is hurting fatloss than I would stop.

Well, it might not promote fat loss. Like I said, I'm not sure. Anyway, IF it happens I suppose it would take a high carb meal to do so, and I don't think a salad would qualify.

[Twin Peak]

I have been using it for a week and a half, post workout, about 10 minutes before my shake.

I am not sure of how it is working. I gained 3/8" on my arms in 4 days, and this was after a 3 day carb refeed, while my waist went down. I also added in high doses of 1-Test and Boldione.

Either I had significant muscle growth in 4 days, or my muscles were supracompensated with glycogen. If it is the former, that is awesome results from the PHs. If it is the later, that is awesome results from the vinegar, particularly since for those 4 days:

- I was at a calorie deficit
- Except my pre and post w/o carbs, I was consuming only veggies
- For three days before this 4 day period I was eating plenty of carbs, but no vinegar.

[restless]

Interesting. Please keep reporting your experience.

[Maki Riddington]

It would help if someone just took vinegar by itself and not in conjunction with a while slew of other supplements.

[AJ_11]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
I have been using it for a week and a half, post workout, about 10 minutes before my shake.

I am not sure of how it is working. I gained 3/8" on my arms in 4 days, and this was after a 3 day carb refeed, while my waist went down. I also added in high doses of 1-Test and Boldione.

Either I had significant muscle growth in 4 days, or my muscles were supracompensated with glycogen. If it is the former, that is awesome results from the PHs. If it is the later, that is awesome results from the vinegar, particularly since for those 4 days:

- I was at a calorie deficit
- Except my pre and post w/o carbs, I was consuming only veggies
- For three days before this 4 day period I was eating plenty of carbs, but no vinegar.

do you use ala as well or just the vinegar. and did you have it just with your pw shake.