PDA

View Full Version : Cack vs Tryska



Sinep
08-07-2001, 08:47 AM
Hey :) This is just a question about oatmeal during dieting and fruits...
Tryska said that my carbs should not all be taken from oatmeal because of its high GI and that fruits and veggies were fine.
Cack, on the other hand thinks oatmeal being bad is just a myth and that fruits are evil and veggies are fine.

please grab a rock and choose your target...

Frankster
08-07-2001, 08:51 AM
grabs the biggest rock... and hits cack over the head

Not that i disagree with him.. its just that i wanted to hit cack :D


but i would tend to agree with tryska anyways

breeze
08-07-2001, 08:59 AM
Lord this argument again. look if you guys don't want to eat your fruit and veggies so be it, but some of us want to live forever. So can I have a second serving of those delicious fruits and tasty veggies please.

*picks up rock and hits cack just for the hell of it*

gino
08-07-2001, 09:29 AM
Bludgeons cack with a frozen grapefruit.

I thought oatmeal had an extremely LOW GI?

Tryska
08-07-2001, 09:35 AM
it does gino.....sinep kinda misquoted me on that one....that would be the one grain i would keep while cutting, but i wouldn't use it as my only carb source....simply because, although it does have fiber, it still breaks down pretty quick to glucose. IMO you are better of keeping the oats to a minimum and getting most of your carbs from fresh fruits and veggies.

Hercules
08-07-2001, 09:57 AM
i agree with the oats thing, they are fine in moderation like all other carbs. as for veggies, yea buddy. i only eat fiberous veggies and avoid lentils, legumes, ect as they are carbohydrate based and not on the the diet i am following. fruits, well if you can handle the sugar then fine but for some of us they are a no no. i don't eat them due to the sugar and insulin surge you get afterwards. they also are not on my diet but if i crave some bad enough i am allowed an apple on occassion due to it's high fiber content.

Yaz
08-07-2001, 10:05 AM
We all know what happens when muscle glycogen is depleted right?

Last I checked, an apple won't do much to replenish it. Liver yes. Muscle no. ;)

Tryska
08-07-2001, 10:07 AM
but that's what fat cells are for yaz....*lol*

i thought we went through this already....

breeze
08-07-2001, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by firemedic
i only eat fiberous veggies and avoid lentils, legumes, ect as they are carbohydrate based and not on the the diet i am following. fruits, well if you can handle the sugar then fine but for some of us they are a no no. i don't eat them due to the sugar and insulin surge you get afterwards.

OH oh. Blasphemy blasphemy. Heresy heresy. There is a blasphemer, and a heretic amongst us. Tar and featured him. No burn him to the stake. legumes have the lowest GI on the chart. Most fruits are around 30 - 50, which is much lower than brown rice at 75.

Tryska
08-07-2001, 10:25 AM
*lol@breeze*


while i can see an avoidance of lentils (not for GI purposes, but actually lectins)....you do have a point about fruits...plus the fructose doesn't actually affect insulin response to a high degree anyway...it gets metabolized a different way then glucose.

Yaz
08-07-2001, 10:34 AM
Tryska what do you mean that's what fat cells are for? To replenish glycogen? When you're depleted your body would much rather burn off excess muscle than fat for energy. To lose fat, essentially you are tricking your body into doing something it would prefer not to do. Deprivation isn't the key. And nourishment of the muscles you are trying to maintain is essential. Fuel in muscle > Fuel in liver.

As for the GI thing. Insulin is anabolic, thus making it anti-catabolic as well. If you don't get an insulin response (Eventhough apples to give a little) ... something's going to hit the fan. This is also why it is important to even consume carbs that give an insulin response while on a ketogenic diet.

Just my thoughts... Not trying to start a war or anything. ;)

Tryska
08-07-2001, 10:43 AM
i'm not saying not to consume carbs yaz.....i'm saying to get most of your carbs from vegetable and fruit sources.....

like we decided before...do you want to cut fat or build muscle?

insulin is good, yes, but it also shuts off fat from being emptied out of fat cells....if you are trying to cut, getting all your carbs from starchy carb sources is antithetical to what your goal of the moment is.....your fat stores are their specifically to provide you energy (via glycogen stores) when there is no food to be had...so, i wouldn't say that's not there function.....you obviously don't want to undernourish, but what your body requires for muscles, brain function, hormones etc, is protein, fats, and fiber (and the anti-oxidants available in fresh produce) - it can make carbs....starchy carb intake is just gravy.

Chris Rodgers
08-07-2001, 10:43 AM
Sinep- I personally think that through dieting you got into better shape(lower BF%) than most members of this board ever have! Why don't you do what seems to work best for you? Just curious

Maki Riddington
08-07-2001, 10:51 AM
Training like Dieting is very individual.
Experiment, there isn't one superior method.
I am personally gonna take the fruit and veggie route with some cardio added in.

I've tried using oats and pasta and it worked extremly well.

Sinep
08-07-2001, 11:18 AM
Lat, Last time I got shredded I didn't even follow a diet... I'd just eat clean and very little... I don't remember exactly but I would eat 2-3 fruits daily... with like 100-125g of protein lol... that seperated in 2 or 3 meals.
I also did it on a longer period of time than now... so now I have the pressure to keep the muscle, with more fat... all that in 2 months. So I better start understanding what I'm doing...

Wizard
08-07-2001, 11:19 AM
When cutting and you have to select between oatmeal and fruit,it's preferable to go with oatmeal.
Fruit could be better preworkout.

Paul Stagg
08-07-2001, 12:46 PM
there is more to it than the GI, as well.

Fiber can drive GI down, as can fat (Ice cream has a low GI)

So a fruit that has a low GI may just mean it is fiberous.

This whole thing is a little blown out of proportion.

breeze
08-07-2001, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
there is more to it than the GI, as well.

Fiber can drive GI down, as can fat (Ice cream has a low GI)

So a fruit that has a low GI may just mean it is fiberous.

This whole thing is a little blown out of proportion.

Fruits are an excellent source of dietary fiber. A ounce apple has .77g fiber, 1oz banana = .68g fiber and 1oz brown rice has .51g fiber. So you see fruits compares favorable in fiber content to anything that is out there. And fruits have both soluble and no soluble fiber in the proper proportions.

Cackerot69
08-07-2001, 01:10 PM
OK, Tryska's entire arguement is based on some paleolithic crap..i.e. we didn't eat oats back in the day we ate meats, veggies, fruits, etc. Personally, while I think this has some (very small some) merits she is taking it too far. Yes, GI plays a role as does the carb source. If you eat a lot of fruit you are going to gain fat because the liver can only hold approx 100g of glucose, and if you eat any other carbs during the day your liver will undoubtedly spill over into fat stores...and if you get ALL your carbs from fruit as Tryska recommends, you are going to be a fat fook (could take a low blow here, but I digress).

Bottom line, GI does matter, but so does what the carb actually does while in the body. Yes oats have a higher GI than fruit, but due to the fact that fruit preferentially saturates liver glycogen which can't hold much as it is...you will get fatter from a high fruit diet than you will from eating lots of oats.

Sinep
08-07-2001, 01:16 PM
wut ? you want to go low and give me a blow ? :eek: tuttut

Well, I take it that if fructose is the only bad thing about fruits then my best solution would be veggies ?

how about veggies vs oats ?

Tryska
08-07-2001, 01:17 PM
i never ever said you should get all your carbs from fruits. tuttut

i agree with you that you will get fat if you eat too many, but i'm talking about a low to mod carb diet....not one that's predominantly carbs.

so take that gooface!

Cackerot69
08-07-2001, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Tryska
i'm not saying not to consume carbs yaz.....i'm saying to get most of your carbs from vegetable and fruit sources.....

The body can only process a limited amount of fructose before you gain some fat, I believe the number was 50g but I'm not 100% positive. If, as you recommend I were to use a isocaloric diet that would be (for me right now): 2500 cals, about 200g of protein, 200g of carbs, and about 90g of fat. Now, by getting "most" of you carbs from fruit and veggies, and eating 200g of carbs per day, I assume by "most" you mean more than half. Unless you are going to eat 3 buckets of veggies per day, a lot of that "most" would have to come from fruit, and as I established earlier, not a good idea.

Gooface.

Tryska
08-07-2001, 01:29 PM
*lol*

not really......you figure you get some oats in there (if you must eat grains), the carbs from dairy products, and the carbs from fruits and vegetables (but i should point out, it should be the lower GI, less starchy fruits, not bananas and papayas and whatnot), so really you don't wind up eating that many fruits....

actually i'm at like what, 1800 right now? and theres is just one serving of fruit there....the rest is veggies, and carbs from dairy, and a bowl of oats.

Hercules
08-07-2001, 01:30 PM
breeze, how am i a blashpemer? i only said the book states that if and only if you have an uncontrollable craving for fruit then choose an apple on occasion due to the fiber content. legumes, are carbohyrdate based foods. if i eat a half of cup of let's say pinto beans then that is like what 20-30 grams of carbs, and only like 7 of that is fiber. yes very good fiber source but not good for my carbohydrate source. you forget i am on the greenwich diet which is a healthy low carb diet, i get 50-100 grams of carbs a day from fiberous veggies like green beans, cabbage, greens(turnip, collard, ect), broccoli, couliflower(spelling is off), things like that. i eat tomatos, peppers, olives, onions, mushrooms, carrots, and i'll even eat brussel sprouts, though i hate them. i know you are an advocate of the food guide pyramid, i won't go off and bash you for it, you have the right. i ask that you not start making comments on how superior it is and that those of us who see different are wrong and going to diet, yadda yadda. just understand where i am coming from and that each person is different and will respond different to different things.

Sinep
08-07-2001, 01:33 PM
If I were to eat some veggies , what would be my best selection ? Like cack said, I wouldn't want to have to go buy some 3 buckets of veggies to replace one meal of oatmeal.

Tryska, no no... me still eating some oat... you no worry :)

Cackerot69
08-07-2001, 01:35 PM
Lactose from dairy acts similarly to fructose, gooface.

Tryska
08-07-2001, 01:39 PM
hee hee....they are all good!

umm...best bets? broccoli, cauliflower, bell peppers (the reds are high in antioxidants), all kinds of greens, radishes, tomaotes, cucumbers, zucchini....the more variety the better...

Tryska
08-07-2001, 01:42 PM
agreed, cackazoid.

however..that gets mitigated by using higher-fat dairy...so you actually get less carbs per serving.....and don't forget nuts and seeds either.....gooface!:p

breeze
08-07-2001, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Tryska
hee hee....they are all good!

umm...best bets? broccoli, cauliflower, bell peppers (the reds are high in antioxidants), all kinds of greens, radishes, tomaotes, cucumbers, zucchini....the more variety the better...

Don't forget carrots and leafy vegetables

Tryska
08-07-2001, 01:46 PM
*lol* i did forget carrots, although they are kinda high in sugar..but they are a great natural source of beta carotene.

Hercules
08-07-2001, 01:50 PM
tryska, you are high in sugar too but who's counting, lol.

**winks at tryska**;)

Tryska
08-07-2001, 01:52 PM
ha ha....

but i am not for eating...no no. tuttut

PowerManDL
08-07-2001, 01:56 PM
Well, I.....

No, too easy.

Hercules
08-07-2001, 01:58 PM
dang, i was hoping to sprinkle a little shredded coconut on you and enjoy. :angel:

Tryska
08-07-2001, 02:00 PM
:eek:

firemedic..you are a bad bad man.

and dl....yeah..wise move. ;)

Hercules
08-07-2001, 02:01 PM
tryska, i'm as bad as you want me to be, lol.

**blows tryska a kiss goodbye and winks**;)

Yaz
08-07-2001, 02:19 PM
Someone needs to get a grip on their pud.

Actually, scratch that. All comments considered, It'd be a safe bet to say he's already got a grip on it. :D

Hercules
08-09-2001, 09:12 AM
lol@yaz