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iLUDEd
04-20-2003, 06:41 AM
i weigh around 193lbs, so with my diet im sticking to the 1g of protein per pound of body weight plan, but i went a little over..
i got all this mapped out in an excel spreadsheet, but it pasted all funny, so ill just paste it with the micro's at the end of the diet plan, im thinkin i aint getin in enough carbs? oh, and the reason why im taking 2 shakes a day, is coz i travel 1.5hrs each way to work n back, n i cant really prepare 5 meals a day b4 work..

this is how my diet will look (without pre/post workout/cardio nutrition), ill be lifting twice a week, and doin cardio twice a week, one in the form of bball, and the other interval sprint training, 15sec goin flat out/45sec walkin.. i usually lift at 6:45pm (when i get home from work), so my last meal would be moved back to as late as 8:30ish, atm im attempting to cut..

6:45am:
3 slices wholemeal bread
4 slices avocado
2 slices cheese
15g whey

8:50am:
2 table spoons nat p/nut b
2 slices wholemeal bread

11am:
200mL Soy Milk
Almond Oil
30g whey

1pm:
2 cups mixed vegi's
2 chicken breast
4 slices avocado

3pm:
200mL Soy Milk
Almond Oil
30g whey

7pm:
2 scotch fillet steaks
6 mushrooms

TOTAL:
2379 calories
155g carbs
216g protein
95g fats

i went for a 33/33/33 split, but it ended up more like a 28/36/36
is 36% of my calorie intake comin from fats too much?

iLUDEd
04-20-2003, 06:43 AM
oh, and i aim to drink like 3-4lt of water a day, along with 3 big cups of green tea with peach (i duno why green tea is good for me, but i saw it in Maki's journal, so it must be good)..

Orange357
04-20-2003, 08:35 AM
why not a 40/30/30 protein/fat/carbs?

Orange357
04-20-2003, 08:37 AM
3-4 litre while dieting IMO is not enough. Shoot for about 6 on off trainig days and as much as 10 on training days coming to a usually of about 2-3 gallons a day.

Tank23
04-20-2003, 08:42 AM
(i duno why green tea is good for me, but i saw it in Maki's journal, so it must be good)..

LMAO!

I think it's full of antioxidants...that's why it's good for you, gets rid of the free radicals, something like that.

As for the fat intake, I think you should try getting some omega 3 in there, maybe buy some omega 3 capsules. It's an EFA, so ur prob lacking in that department.

Also, I read an article about when to eat ur fats and carbs. The link was posted in another thread somewhere, can't remember where tho. Basically the guy was saying to eat your carbs and proteins together, but not to eat your fat and carbs together. Since the body primarily uses carbs for energy, if you eat fat with the carbs, the body has no use for it so it will store it as bodyfat.
So you might wanna eat mainly carbs and protein, with only a bit of fat, in the first half of the day, and the rest of the fats throughout the last bit of the day.

-Tank

Orange357
04-20-2003, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Tank23

Also, I read an article about when to eat ur fats and carbs. The link was posted in another thread somewhere, can't remember where tho. Basically the guy was saying to eat your carbs and proteins together, but not to eat your fat and carbs together. Since the body primarily uses carbs for energy, if you eat fat with the carbs, the body has no use for it so it will store it as bodyfat.
So you might wanna eat mainly carbs and protein, with only a bit of fat, in the first half of the day, and the rest of the fats throughout the last bit of the day.




I agree. I just noticed that.

Ironman8
04-20-2003, 10:00 AM
Fat really doesn't matter. It all comes down to calories.

Ritzol
04-20-2003, 10:25 AM
Well ultimately it comes down to calories, but someone could be losing weight on a high fat diet and still be in horrid health.

It needs to be healthy fat..... you want to lose weight on saturated fat, I'm sure it can be done.... but the clogged arteries and cardiovascular disease aren't going to be fun in the long run.

iLUDEd
04-20-2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Orange357
why not a 40/30/30 protein/fat/carbs?
hrrm, im not really fussed with ratio's, just wanted to see if i wasnt getin in too much fat, im under the impression it has mostly to do with your calorie intake..


Originally posted by Orange357
3-4 litre while dieting IMO is not enough. Shoot for about 6 on off trainig days and as much as 10 on training days coming to a usually of about 2-3 gallons a day.

10 lt! pwoah, im gona b a walking fountain for a few weeks while my body gets used to that.. but ill give it a go :confused:

iLUDEd
04-20-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Tank23

As for the fat intake, I think you should try getting some omega 3 in there, maybe buy some omega 3 capsules. It's an EFA, so ur prob lacking in that department.

funnily enough, i actually have some of these sitting at my computer desk.. ill add em into my diet..


as for that fat with carb thing, ill change my 1st two meals of the day, then post them up on here again..

bradley
04-20-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Tank23


Also, I read an article about when to eat ur fats and carbs. The link was posted in another thread somewhere, can't remember where tho. Basically the guy was saying to eat your carbs and proteins together, but not to eat your fat and carbs together. Since the body primarily uses carbs for energy, if you eat fat with the carbs, the body has no use for it so it will store it as bodyfat.
So you might wanna eat mainly carbs and protein, with only a bit of fat, in the first half of the day, and the rest of the fats throughout the last bit of the day.

-Tank

This is part of Berardi's theory but I think if you are in a caloric deficit at the end of the day you will be fine as far as weight loss is concerned. Anyone else have opinions?

I was reading about Berardi on google and found this posted by Lyle McDonald:


But, and I will continue to argue this until I see some *real* data to the contrary, once you meet those basic requirements (calories, protein,EFA), the rest of the diet simply isn't that important. Which really isn't the same as saying 'a calorie is a calorie' although I can see how it could be interpreted as such.

complete post:
http://www.google.com/groups?q=Berardi+author:Lyle+author:McDonald&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=r&selm=3BB0D324.6A132EB9%40onr.com&rnum=4

iLUDEd
04-20-2003, 11:37 AM
ok for meal 1 i just took out the avocado n added another 15g of when, for meal 2, ill add another slice of bread, but i dont know what else to add to it? any suggestions?

n i added an omega 3 tablet to my last meal of the day, n i may replace it with 1 of the oils in my shakes if im not in the mood to stomic a table spoon of oil..

Scythian_Blade
04-20-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by bradley

This is part of Berardi's theory but I think if you are in a caloric deficit at the end of the day you will be fine as far as weight loss is concerned. Anyone else have opinions?

I was reading about Berardi on google and found this posted by Lyle McDonald:

complete post:
http://www.google.com/groups?q=Berardi+author:Lyle+author:McDonald&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=r&selm=3BB0D324.6A132EB9%40onr.com&rnum=4

Berardi's is really big on being able to manipulate insulin levels. I like his notion that when insulin is present, the ability of oxidize fats for energy is lessened. I tend to agree with most of his logic and am in support of his ideas. His theory of using p/c around workout and at other times of the day when you are active/very sensitive to insulin and using p/f when you are least active make a lot of sense to me. Combining f/c meals certainly has proved a nightmare for me trying to bulk up.

If I am not mistaken, Rob Faigin is also a big advocate of avoiding c/f meals in his NHE eating plan due to the same reasoning, warning against hyperinsulinimia and the presence of fats.

Though Lyle McDonald disagree's with Berardi in general, I am glad he made the distinction that he wasn't supporting the old 'a calorie is a calorie' idea (rather emphasizing difference in overall energy expenditure for weightloss etc).

I too would like to hear more opinions on this issue. Several boards I post on are pretty strongly in support of the theory overall.

aka23
04-20-2003, 03:17 PM
Fats can cause tryglyceride synthesis and fatty acid storage whether they are consumed with or without carbs, and whether or not carb-induced insulin is present.

I am not aware of any good studies supporting fat/carb separation theories. However, there are several that show that separating fats from carbs has little effect on fat/weight loss. Here is an example -- http://www.4cnrs-weight-loss.com/weight-loss-article1.html .

Personally, I do not hold much stock in food combining type diets. I think that the most important aspects of fat loss are caloric balance and activity/exercise. You can get very lean if you eat fat+carbs in the same meal; and you can get very lean if you separate them. It is no doubt beneficial to avoid pastries and other junk food that combine sugars with unhealthy fats. It is also beneficial to minimize insulin spikes that are often assoicated with high GI carbs.

PowerManDL
04-20-2003, 03:23 PM
I'd be more interested in actually reading that study, as opposed to someone else's digestion of it, before drawing any conclusions.

Sometimes people have a way of shoving their heads up their asses when interpreting a study, especially if they have a stake in the results.

PowerManDL
04-20-2003, 03:28 PM
I looked at it......the things that strike me most were that the obese patients were only given 1100 cals/day, and the most obvious point-- they were obese.

Not sure if that has much practical application to an athlete.

bradley
04-20-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Scythian_Blade


Berardi's is really big on being able to manipulate insulin levels. I like his notion that when insulin is present, the ability of oxidize fats for energy is lessened. I tend to agree with most of his logic and am in support of his ideas. His theory of using p/c around workout and at other times of the day when you are active/very sensitive to insulin and using p/f when you are least active make a lot of sense to me. Combining f/c meals certainly has proved a nightmare for me trying to bulk up.

If I am not mistaken, Rob Faigin is also a big advocate of avoiding c/f meals in his NHE eating plan due to the same reasoning, warning against hyperinsulinimia and the presence of fats.



I would think when you are bulking this would be more of an issue but at the end of the day if you are in a caloric deficit then you will lose weight. The fact that you mixed fat and carbs would not be that important.

bradley
04-20-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by aka23
It is no doubt beneficial to avoid pastries and other junk food that combine sugars with unhealthy fats. It is also beneficial to minimize insulin spikes that are often assoicated with high GI carbs.

This is probably one of the main benefits of these type of diet recommendations, and from what I gather there have been very few studies done to back up Berardi's theories.

Scythian_Blade
04-20-2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by bradley

This is probably one of the main benefits of these type of diet recommendations, and from what I gather there have been very few studies done to back up Berardi's theories.

I don't believe there have been ANY studies to back up his theory there =D. At least according to what berardi said in one of his articles over there. He instead points to how he has seen it work for athletes he has trained time and time again etc.

On an unrelated note, maybe I should put more stock into the value of studies. There seem to be a number of studies showing that cutting with a carb-based diet is just as effective as cutting with a keto diet. Going on a one individual to the next comparison, I just don't happen to believe them!

PowerManDL
04-20-2003, 05:45 PM
When viewing any study for the purposes of practical application, there are a LOT of variable to take into account. You can't just assume that because a study shows certain results that its immediately applicable to your specific situation.

That said, take it with a grain of salt.

Ironman8
04-20-2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by aka23
It is also beneficial to minimize insulin spikes that are often assoicated with high GI carbs.

Do insuline spikes increase the chance fat gain? I heard it increase fat triglacides or something.

bradley
04-21-2003, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Ironman8


Do insuline spikes increase the chance fat gain? I heard it increase fat triglacides or something.

Well insulin is a lipogenic hormone (fat storing hormone) and also an anti-lipolytic hormone which means it shifts your metabolism away from using fat for energy to using glucose for energy.

iLUDEd
04-21-2003, 03:46 AM
after all that being said, i think ill just stick with having the peanut butter with the 2 slices of bread as my origonal diet stated.. :)

raniali
04-21-2003, 11:28 AM
as to your original diet - i personally see nothing wrong with the breakdown. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. everyBODY is different and i consume somewhere around the same macro percents as you.